Why did US car companies abandon the sedan?

[Chi67]

My guess is US car company's sedans sucked. Sure, more people moved to SUVs.

However, when you look at German and Japanese websites, they offer many sedans and they are quite popular. I just recently purchased an Audi A3, which I love. Why? Because Audi makes some seriously badass small cars. US manufacturers have rarely done so. They view small cars as "economy" cars. Translate that to crap cars.

IMO, that is why the sedan is gone from US manufacturers. Because they made shit sedans in the first place that no one wanted, for good reason- they sucked! Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Lexus make great small cars and sedans-and they sell.

My question is this- why can't US car companies make small cars people want? There has never been the US equivalent of the Audi A3, Mazda MX5, and the BMW M3, etc.

People clearly want small cars. Because they are on the road and they sell. They just are not being made by US car companies. Are US car companies simply not able to build small cars people want? And if so, why?

[LeftInTX]

1. I don't want a small car. I like my Subaru. I like having a hatchback.

I like sitting higher for safety reasons.
I like having storage.
I like having collapsible seats etc.
______________


It's probably a demand issue.

[John1956PA]

3. Ditto. I enjoy my Honda CR-V for the reasons which you state.

With its hatchback closed, my CR-V can haul a 10-foot-long wooden plank. As a do-it-yourself home improvement person, I find that hauling capability to be quite useful. Also, I can hook my small utility trailer to my CR-V whenever I have the need to haul larger loads of building materials. With its four doors, my CR-V can play the role of a passenger car. Sitting higher than a sedan does, my four-wheel-drive CR-V can take on wintertime drifts of snow which a sedan can not. The four-cylinder engine in my CR-V delivers favorable gas mileage. I had been a sedan owner all of my driving years, but I stored my old Mercury Grand Marquis a few years ago and purchased my Honda CR-V because of its versatility and fuel economy.

[onetexan]

6. Likewise here. I had a sedan for a very long time till a few years ago

Tried driving a Honda CR-V to accommodate more trunk room when we do road trips, and never looked back. Since the release of CRVs which drive like a sedan the dangers of tipping over are way low. I wrecked the CR-V & got a Nissan Murano. I had an Infiniti G35 for 13 years and loved it, and am a loyal Nissan customer since college for their dependability & reliability.
Love my Murano. Had for 5 years now & it barely has 60K miles on it. I dont drive often since i work remotely but esp'ly for the long road trips i'm grateful for it.
Also love being able to lie down the back seats to haul things if we need.
Gas mileagewise it gets average 28-34mph. I take care of it w regular oil changes & it drives like a champ. Till it's no longer economical to keep i'll keep driving it then get an electric. Hopefully by then the charging infrastructure will be more widely available.

[Scottie Mom]

18. I have a 2001 Honda CRV SE

This car is 22 years old, the black leather upholstery looks like it is brand new, the floor mats are the original ones and they also appear as though there are new. It has a disc play and an excellent sound system. It has an incredible amount of space inside even with both rear seats up and in place. Putting down the rear seats in the CRV, allows me to carry huge loads of different things, including a full-size rectangular glass outdoor table.

The CRV is 4 Wheel drive and it sits sufficiently high enough to provide an excellent view of traffic ahead and behind me. Yet it is not so high off the ground that I literally need a footstool in order to get into the car.

My gentleman friend is 6‘3“ tall and he has sufficient leg and headroom to sit comfortably in both the front and back seats of the CRV. I am quite tall and even with my hair stacked on top of my head I do not have to slouch while driving to have sufficient room to sit tall in the drivers seat.

I will NEVER get rid of this car and replace it with a new car that has all of those useless electronic gadgets.

[unc70]

64. I'm about 6'3" and don't quite have enough leg room in CRV

My friend has a CRV and I think it is a great car for her. She is very involved with her grandchildren and with volunteer activities and the CRV works well. I drive her car on occasion and find the legroom barely sufficient; I have to sit slightly sideways to fit. It is fine for me around town, but becomes uncomfortable on longer trips. Have to get out and walk around. BTW my car is an ancient (20+ yo) Acura with 200k+ and plenty of leg room.

[John1956PA]

90. I just made the cutoff. I was 6'2" in my prime.

My 2011 CR-V has suffient leg room for me. At 190 lb, I find the firmness of the seat to be just right. It might be time for me to trade up for a newer CR-V, since the dashboard engine light recently became illuminated. I would prefer to trade up for a newer CR-V than to start outlaying money for repairs for my 2011.

[flying_wahini]

54. I love my Subaru too.

Best car I ever had.

[TheBlackAdder]

79. My household has a Civic, 2 Outbacks, a Buick Regal and a Town & Country.

I have the Civic and the thing I don't like about it is how low it is to the ground.

The Subies and T&C are like my old Jeep Grand Cherokee. You just step out of them. You don't have to pull yourself up to get out of it. Also, the Civic is now a PITA (Pain In The Ass) to see around other cars when in traffic. Being lower also stinks if there is a T-Bone because sitting lower places my shoulder at bumper level for most other vehicles. The Regal isn't as bad, but I do bang my head at times getting into it on the passenger side.

The Subies are the best of them, but you have to watch which models and engines you get with them. There's a lot more mechanical issues when you place a turbo on a boxer engine. The GDI, auto stop-start, VVT compound those issues. So, both of mine are normally aspirated. And stay away from that 6 cylinder, definitely not good in a boxer. And this doesn't include the valve spring issues they had on them.

[spooky3]

102. Ditto. Small SUVs are much more practical than sedans.

The total number of domestic sales of those luxury brand sedans the OP mentioned is probably fewer than RAV4 sales alone.

[Rhiannon12866]

2. Good question!

I drive a midsized car which I like a lot and am comfortable with - but in my neck-of-the-woods the roads and parking lots are full of large trucks, vans and SUVs which I can't see around or what's happening in front of me and that's dangerous. And I get my car serviced at the dealership where I bought it and I see very few regular cars for sale there, I was fortunate to find mine.

[pandr32]

58. That's the case where we are, too.

Trucks are number one, and many have been raised. Parking lots are a nightmare. I wonder how everyone affords the gas.

[GoodRaisin]

4. I like mid sized SUV's

I drove a Trailblazer new from 2005 to 2020, then gave it to my son and bought another new SUV (Hyundai Santa Fe).

While I had that Trailblazer I raised two children and two big dogs. I could carry all of them at one time if needed. It carried building materials, rear seats opened up easily into cargo area so I could get lumber or other material in it if needed. It pulled a trailer when I needed more than the cargo area for hauling things. I could use the trailer to take my zero turn mower back and forth or move large loads like salt for the pool or gardening materials, even new sod. Or we could convert back to using the back seats normally again on trips and there was plenty of room for 4 of us to be comfortable. I’ve never seen a sedan that would do all that as easily as it was to do those things in the Trailblazer. For a family, these are very useful, flexible cars and I guess that flexibility has a lot of appeal in the American market. At least it sold me.

[Xolodno]

5. Same reason why station wagons are no longer a thing.

Consumers just didn't want them anymore.

I'll also add, in a number of countries, they have narrower roads, space, etc. so they could develop the cars needed for that. Here in the USA, we have a strange affinity with "size". Not just vehicles, but homes, etc. An old friend of mine, he moved to Texas for a five bedroom home and has one kid who is already out of the house. I'm in a four bedroom and my wife and I desperately want to downsize. I also own a sub compact, thought about upgrading to a Jag....but then ask myself why. It's paid for, good gas mileage, low maintenance, sits in the driveway most of the week and when I do need to go on an extended road trip, I just rent the vehicle I need.

I get good discounts (since I work in the insurance industry, am often upgraded), but you have people still buying large trucks and don't even need them. Like a status symbol, need and utility seem like secondary or worse considerations.

[leftieNanner]

52. I had two different station wagons

Loved them. My last one was a 1995 Mercedes E320. Bought it used. Finally donated it after 325,000 miles. Best car I ever owned.

[roamer65]

82. In many ways, SUVs are re-engineered station wagons.

My Chevy Equinox is titled as a station wagon in Michigan.

History doesn’t repeat, but it sure can rhyme.

[Zeitghost]

98. Yep

Most SUV's and all crossovers are essentially wagons.

[Polybius]

96. I think it all depends on what the dreams were

I'm one person in a two bedroom house and I hate it. I wish I could afford a 10 acre Victorian mansion.

[Silent3]

7. One counter-intuitive reason is US fuel economy standards

You'd think fuel economy standards are supposed to, you know... encourage greater fuel economy.

However, the greater the "footprint" of a vehicle, the lower the required target for fuel efficiency. It's easier to make bigger cars than meet the efficiency standards for smaller cars.

There is a plan to fix our fuel economy standards to get rid of this unintended consequence, but I don't know how long it will take, or if legislation (rather than simple executive action) is required.

[NBachers]

8. I bought a Toyota Corolla today with an upgrade package and 21 miles on the odometer.

Living here in San Francisco, there are many reasons why this is the right car to drive. I’ve been a dedicated stick shift driver most of my life, it will be strange not being the boss of my car, but the technology and the advancements on the Corolla are amazing. I’ll be on the learning curve for a while.

[Diamond_Dog]

45. My Corolla is 17 years old and I hope it lasts forever

I have had zero problems with it. Just do regular maintenance, change oil, new tires, brakes, etc. my adult Son owns a 2021 Corolla. It is super nice. Enjoy your fine Toyota product!

[Submariner]

61. I got my '70 Corolla for $1998

A 5 speed gas miser, it was even good in the New England snow with its rear wheel drive. The cylinder head cracked after the warranty expired, but Toyota replaced it for free.

I bet they cost a bunch more now.

[RockRaven]

9. It's as much or more the customers than the sellers...

[Old Crank]

10. Marketing

Decades of bigger and better for next year.

In Europe that wasn't pushed. Also as mentioned in Europe freeway width lanes aren't the standard street width like in the US. Also fuel costs are greater. Our trip to Italy gas was 1.95€/ liter. Over $8 per gallon. I was glad to be getting over 40 mpg eqivalent. I rent the size I need when I need one. My rental cost about $300 for 10 days. Car free for 8 years.

[C Moon]

11. Love my Corolla!

[pnwmom]

12. There have been ots of small hatchbacks, and there are at least a couple things I prefer about them.

There is more space for storage at the back, than in a trunk. And you enter the car at a higher height, and sit with a higher view of the road.

Our first small hatchback was a Plymouth Horizon, and it was a very good little car. We kept it at least ten years, till we needed more space for a growing family.

[Dulcinea]

13. Minivan owner here.

Last edited Sat Dec 16, 2023, 10:45 PM - Edit history (1)

As long as I have kids to move back & forth to college, I'll be a Chrysler minivan owner. It's the only model with Stow & Go, where I can collapse the back seats to make room for lots of stuff. I drive a 2020 Chrysler Pacifica & am happy with it so far. One day I'd like an EV, but here in GA we don't have the infrastructure yet. Plus, we take a lot of road trips. You can always find a gas station, but you can't always find a charging station.

[Diamond_Dog]

46. We had Chrysler minivans when our kids were young

They were the perfect vehicle for road trips. Only problem was that all 3 vans we owned had transmission issues.

[Dulcinea]

135. I had a Town & Country previously.

It never gave me trouble until it was 11 years old, had 145K on it, & developed electrical issues. We drove it all over the eastern USA & even into Canada.

[LittleGirl]

14. I don't want an SUV

We’re on our third Prius hybrid because they are reliable and dependable and cost effective. I live in Europe and SUVs are everywhere now. Car shippers are unloading more and more. There is problems with parking those bigger vehicles. We had an apartment about 6 years ago and the space was so small, our Prius was too big! We had to hire a space 2 blocks away for over 125 a month. Outrageous!

Gas has come down recently. It’s 1.65 per liter now but last year it was over 2.00 per liter. The highways are full of station wagons but they cost about 60k euros for brand new ones. People take care of their cars except in Italy. So many cars with dents all over them because of parking being a premium.

When we move back to the states, we’re going to buy another Prius. In the 13 years we’ve owned them, we have one oil change a year and do the service maintenance like 30k, 50k mileage recommendations and those cars just pay for themselves.

I had a 97 Subaru before and sold it. I loved the station wagon back that allowed me to move cross country with it. The Prius is even better except for the lack of heated seats.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

15. Profit. Trucks have different taxation and safety standards.

Convince people that the truck is a car that they need, lobby for continued lower taxes and safety standards, pay hollyweird to call these trucks "cars", stir in some stealth marketing (aka astroturfing), and the more profitable market is established.

Around the time of the Newt, corporations could write off fleet purchases of SUVs much faster than much more fuel efficient cars.

Most trucks on the road (and SUVs are just dressed up trucks) are not needed. People have been convinced by a few decades of marketing that they have to have them.

[Diamond_Dog]

47. Hermit-The-Prog you are 100% correct.

Trucks make more profits for the manufacturers. So they market them to death and convince people they need a truck. And eliminate small fuel-efficient cars altogether. Not enough profit in selling small cars. Follow the money …

[Wonder Why]

103. Disagree. The idiots drooled over trucks and bought SUVs so

the manufacturers jacked up the prices on them and increased production. Now the manufacturers have to keep pushing them to keep up their profits.

[A HERETIC I AM]

107. I hauled cars back in 1999 for a company that carried almost exclusivly Ford products.

Back then the Ford Expedition and the Lincoln Navigator were built at Wayne Assembly, west of Detroit on Michigan avenue, near I-275.

It was said that there was $10,000 in profit BUILT IN to each unit as soon as it left the end of the assembly hall.

Didn't matter what the dealer sold it for, it mattered what the dealer was paying for it, and that was ten grand over build cost.

I doubt little has changed.

GM, Ford and Chrysler have turned the passenger car side of the auto industry over to the off-shore brands or, if they do still offer cars, with the exception of the Mustang and Corvette, they are built in other countries.


FWIW, Ford increased the wheelbase on the Navigator and Expedition to more resemble the looks of the Suburban, and when they did that, they moved that production to Kentucky Truck, outside Louisville.

[TheFarseer]

16. Ford Taurus was the #1 car

From 1992-1996. Ford escort was #1 for a lot of the 80’s. It wasn’t hopeless. They just didn’t want to put in the work anymore. They were making more money with trucks and SUVs. Unfortunately that’s why we have all these fuel inefficient vehicles, because that’s what they could sell, so that’s what they focus on marketing. Apparently they never considered foreign companies might try making their own trucks and suvs! On a personal note, my family has overruled me and our next car is going to be our first SUV. I’m demanding a hybrid though!

[NBachers]

86. 2005 Ford Focus owner here; it's got about 225,000 miles on it.

It’s got a five speed and a moonroof. So far it’s the best car I’ve had in my life. I really can’t complain about the routine and occasional other maintenance issues. I’ve had with it.

[Emile]

17. I prefer driving a sedan over an SUV. Much better ride

and better visibility.

[Shermann]

19. SUVs are a middle ground between minivans and sedans

It's hard to beat the minivan in terms of suburban family practicality. But the practicality at the expense of all else is a bit too much for most, so the SUV gets you most of the storage space and creature comforts and picks up some sportiness, stylishness, and ruggedness. Most people never actually take them off-road.

[TexasBushwhacker]

21. I like my SUV for ground clearance

Houston floods a lot. The water in the streets can rise quickly if I'm caught in a downpour. I drive a Toyota RAV4 Hybrid.

[Rstrstx]

20. Tesla has done very well with their Model 3

[Voltaire2]

22. We have stupid low gas prices

So people buy stupid big vehicles. We also carved out a huge loophole for trucks and SUV mileage ratings. So people buy stupidly big vehicles.

[MichMan]

37. Yes, not a surprise that lower gas prices are not causing people to buy EV vehicles

Everyone loves cheap gas, but then we act surprised when people choose bigger vehicles.

[Elessar Zappa]

126. Cheap gas is good right now.

And hopefully it lasts through November of next year. If it gets expensive again, it will be hard to win the election and if we don’t win the election, then any climate change action is dead in the water.

[Voltaire2]

128. no its stupid.

it might be the only option, it certainly appears to be as there is no authority to increase the prices other than the market. But it is just stunningly stupid.

[tinrobot]

23. Because a hatch is more practical than a trunk

For me it boils down to practically.

A hatch makes full use of the vehicle's potential volume behind the seats. I like having that extra space in the back when I need to haul stuff around.

Sure, a lot of vehicles with hatches ride higher and are called SUVs or CUVs. But even something as small as a Honda Fit can haul quite a bit of stuff because if the hatch

[meadowlander]

115. +1

Literally the only two things I do with my car are haul landscaping supplies and go camping. A sedan isn't practical for either.

[LeftInTX]

24. It sounds like sedans just aren't as popular as they used to be, so there is less demand.

I noticed Ford stopped Fusion and Fiesta around 2019-2020.
Maybe they will come back, but I think Americans like their hatchbacks.

[Freddie]

38. My brother loves his 2009 Fusion

He’s more comfortable in a sedan than an SUV. Was not happy when they stopped making them. Next time he wants a car he’ll have to buy a Camry or a Sonata, and he’d prefer to buy American. He thinks the Big 3 are making a mistake in the long run.

[Conjuay]

25. more importantly:

WHY did they stop making small pickups? Almost noone needs the behemoth barges they are selling ( @ around 100K,) except contractors and people towing boats, RVs etc.

[Liberal In Texas]

26. You are right. Normally Small equals Crap in American cars. Also, the older I get

the more I like my small SUV (it's a crossover) What's nicer as an oldster is that it's easier to get in and out of being higher off the ground than a sedan. Also, it has a powered seat that automatically slides back when the vehicle is turned off. This size is nice which makes it as easy to park as any sedan.
I also still have an old Firebird I just never got rid of and when I take it out for a spin it's really getting harder and harder to crawl in and out of it.

To find the things I wanted I ended up with one made in South Korea. It's a PHEV and loaded with all the bells and whistles you would want with a 100K warranty. I wouldn't call it a luxury vehicle, but it has leather seats, powered windows, a Harman Karden sound system and modern driving features like lane keeping and smart cruise control. I couldn't find anything made in the US like this for the years and years I was in the market.

[MichMan]

27. Few US manufactured vehicles are sold in high numbers outside of North America

They are building what is popular with car buyers ( duh)

The European and Asian automakers manufacture vehicles that are more often sold worldwide. There are enough sales of sedans in other parts of the world to make a dedicated assembly plant economically viable.

I will also add that the vast majority of crossover SUV are in fact built on car (not truck) platforms and thus are very similar to the sedans they replaced, but with different styling elements.

[MichMan]

28. Also given the low fuel taxes here in the US, gas is much cheaper than other countries

The types of vehicles popular in other parts of the world are popular there because gas and diesel taxes are substantially higher than they are here in the US

If the price of gas continues to go lower here, that makes people even less interested in buying EV and economical vehicles.

[JanMichael]

29. Our Subaru Legacy is great. Before that a Suzuki Kizashi.

I really like AWD sedans. Both got over 30 mpg average. Both are Japanese vehicles.

[Mossfern]

30. I love my Honda Civic

My kids are grown, I don't need a large vehicle.
To be honest when my 4 children were small, I inherited my mother-in-law's Lincoln Town Car.
It was a beast, but we all fit. Everyone in town knew where I was because of that maroon monstrosity.

The mileage on the Civic is good and it's maneuverable in city traffic.
My complaint about large vehicles is parking spaces. Parking lots should be re-striped to accommodate popular huge vehicles - often they "leak" over into other spaces making them unusable.

If I need to move something large, I ask my son who owns one of those fancy new pickup trucks, or I rent a vehicle for the one time use.

I have a bad back - recent 3 level laminectomies yet have no issue taking groceries out of the trunk of my car.

[Diamond_Dog]

48. I absolutely agree about big trucks leaking into my parking space.

I got so tired of some huge barge parking 6 inches away from my Corolla so I just park way out far automatically now. Plus it’s easier to back out of a space when you can actually see beyond the behemoth next to you.

[Mossfern]

57. Exactly! n/t

[dflprincess]

56. I just swapped my Civic for a Forester

Broke my heart. It was my 3rd Civic but was 14 years old so it was time. I would have gotten a 4th one but Honda is making them so low now you need to be young or a yoga master to get out of them

I went with the Forester because Honda's HRV did not impress me and I know several people who love their Foresters and it's easy to get in and out of. I've only had it 3 months so I'm still getting used to it and I still miss my manual transmission.

[bullwinkle428]

76. My 2017 Civic sits noticeably lower than my previous 5 Honda

sedans, and it absolutely makes a difference on long trips. A great car in every other aspect, but will certainly take this into account with my next vehicle purchase, as I'm turning 60 next year.

[NBachers]

89. I have to laugh about the maroon Lincoln town car.

I’ve been in the market for a car for a while, and I played with the idea of a Crown Vic or a Mercury Marquis or a Town Car . I could see myself enjoying them, but they’re just not practical in the city.

[llmart]

132. I love my Honda Civic also!

I have a 2015 and the only repairs I've ever needed are a new battery and tires. Nothing has ever gone wrong on that car. The car will probably outlast me.

One of the best things about the Civic is what you said. I love it when I have to go to the airport and the lot is mostly filled up. There will be a space or two in the first level that others can't fit into with their gargantuan vehicles and I zip right in and get an up-close spot. I spend about $30 a month on gas but I am retired now. Before the Civic I had a Dodge Stratus which was one repair after another. This is the first non-American car I've ever owned and I am constantly amazed that I'm not at the dealers more than once a year for an annual check up.

I have never had a problem driving or seeing what I need to see to safely get around.

[ironman99]

31. No more sedans and station wagons

The reason is that sedans and station wagons had to meet stringent EPA emission standards, but light duty trucks did not. So the auto manufacturers lobbied the EPA to define SUVs as light duty trucks, regardless of size (see Cadillac Escalade). As a result, the emission standard for the previously mentioned Escalade, which is about 2 tons, is the same as a 1-1/2 ton Ford Ranger.

[MichMan]

33. The vast majority of crossover SUV that proliferate roads are built on unibody platforms just like cars

They are no different than the sedans and station wagons they replaced, other than appearance.

[dsp3000]

32. I'm a car nut and love sedans. but I also can't deny the practicality of a SUV.

I truly truly hate the soullessness, terrible handling and driving dynamics of most mainline SUV's but i understand that not everyone like me is interested in things like driving dynamics or style and just think bigger space is better.

US Car companies have always put out terrible compact and midsize sedans compared to the competition and the customer migration to SUV's gave them a perfect excuse to cut their losses and cede that ground to the top sellers in the category. civic and corolla always reigned supreme over the cruze, cavalier, focus, etc. sorry but massive price discounts aside who in their right mind would pick an impala over a camry or accord? my 2008 Acura TSX 6MT with 210K miles is still running strong with no signs of dying.

Me personally i wished that there were more wagons in the segment.

[musette_sf]

49. Just totaled my beloved 2002 V70.

It was the best of a wagon and luxury sedan all in one. The loaner I got from Hertz while shopping for a new car was a Nissan Rogue and I must say, its handling was completely soulless as you describe in your post. Used car vs new car pricing right now has few advantages, so after much research I bought a new Subaru Crosstrek. I too am a car nut and can say that it is super fun to drive, great handling, quite responsive. I do like being higher up and having better visibility. I also like being able to haul stuff when I need to. It also has a great safety profile, which was important since the V70 died a noble death protecting me. I had no injuries save some lacerations from the airbag deployment.

I’d always preferred sedans, till I got the V70 when I got hooked on wagons. I did look to see if there were any wagons out there that I might want, but the now-prohibitive price on a comparable Volvo was a deterrent, plus visually they just don’t have that traditional Volvo mojo any more, so I moved over to look at subcompact SUVs.

In my heart of hearts, I’d want to drive a sporty, responsive, 6-cylinder coupe or sedan every day. But TBH, the Crosstrek with the 2.4L Boxer engine has been a lot of fun to drive on the twisty mountain roads on my daily commute.

[EX500rider]

65. While I tend to agree, my last car was a 2002 5 speed ZX5 Focus....

....that handled well and was light weight (2,600lbs) my 6 speed 2011 Outback handles surprisingly well for a heavy SUV (3,600lbs)

[Niagara]

34. I'll never own a sedan again

I'm also not into small cars, I don't believe that the majority of vehicle consumers aren't either. They manufacture what sells, and don't manufacture what doesn't sell.


I purchased a brand new Pontiac Grand Prix in 2003, not exactly a small car.


If anyone knows how low this car sits and my first winter driving it I scratched the heck out of the stock ground effects by running over another vehicles fallen off blob of ice and snow chunk. There was no way for me to avoid it.


I drove this vehicle for 15 years. The last 3 or 4 years that I owned it, it physically hurt my back to get in and out of the sedan. For whatever reason, I was visually impaired driving at night in this vehicle. There was also limited room for luggage and for my Igloo cooler. I also had to have the sway bar links repaired more times than I would like to count during my ownership since there was a bad design flaw.


I drive an SUV now. I can see better driving at night since it sits up higher. I have no problems with storage, moving stuff and packing up luggage and my cooler. An added bonus, it physically doesn't hurt my back getting in and out of it.

Just my 2 cents.

[RandomNumbers]

35. I had a Ford Taurus for many years and it was great.

Then they changed the design and made it fugly. And anyway when it came time to replace it after about 15 years, I wanted something more fuel efficient and went with a hybrid. At the time the U.S. companies just didn't build great hybrids, so I went elsewhere. I would never go back to anything more gas guzzling than a hybrid. So I guess I will take a look soon at whether U.S. companies have caught up there. I was enamored of Tesla for a little while, but then Musk, so I guess that's out, sigh.

[RainCaster]

71. I had a Taurus and it was junk

It would stop at random points on my commute every few days. Before that, I'd had Mazdas, Toyotas and they were always very reliable. After hearing a description of my car on the morning traffic report, (stalled on the bridge) I got rid of it.

When the kids were young, we had minivans, three transmissions. Now we have a Camry Hybrid and it's the best car we've ever had.

I still have an F150 and I will keep it for trips to the lumber yard and for hauling rock, firewood etc. The kids all borrow it to move. Mrs RC is thinking about an electric SUV.

[Emrys]

36. Hatchbacks are more flexible and practical than sedans.

I live in the UK, and it's rare to see a traditional sedan. Of the six used cars I've owned in the last thirty years or so - two Vauxhall Novas (great cars, sadly prone to underbody rust, the second, 1.2-litre, one had quite a turn of speed), a five-door Skoda estate (a lumbering tank whose paintwork looked like crap when I bought it, I could and did fit a fair proportion of a house's contents in it with the seats down, after basic maintenance to get it up to scratch it went on and on for years till rust eventually claimed it), a Rover 1.2 (a great car to drive that I loved and very nippy, again taken out by underbody rust), a VW Polo (a disastrous lemon with a rubbish and troublesome engine that led to innumerable bills and hassles - I'll never buy VW again) and now a Vauxhall Corsa (very similar to the Rover), all have been small three-door hatchbacks except for the stationwagon. Most of the cars you see on the roads here are either hatchbacks or people carriers/SUVs.

Even the smaller ones have enabled me to transport awkward loads, and sometimes quite surprisingly large ones.

With a sedan, there's a lot of wasted space at the back compared to the car's road footprint.

[Renew Deal]

39. Just took a look. The one that's a surprise is Ford.

Chevy has one and Buick just introduced one (Envista). Looks like Dodge doesn’t have one. But I’m surprised that Ford doesn’t.

I don’t think it’s about capability. It’s about tastes and the small cars don’t sell as well in the US where traffic isn’t so bad and parking is generally available.

Some of it is also a safety thing. If all the cars are big, smaller cars feel less safe to some people.

[greymattermom]

40. The size of Americans has increased.

It's easier to get in and out of a higher vehicle.

[phylny]

41. I love my Toyota Highlander Hybrid. My husband loved it so much that he ditched his 11-year-old sedan

and also bought one. I get between 36 and 40 mpg, between 575-600 miles before I fill up. It's comfortable, great for the type of travel we do, which is 90% road, and we can fit a ton of stuff in it. The dogs are comfortable in the back. It was expensive yes, but we tend to hold onto our cars for a long time.

[Goodheart]

44. I have a Ford Escape hybrid.

Best vehicle purchase I've ever made. And when I can move up to a fully electric with comparable range (500 miles) I'm going to do that.

[hatrack]

42. Because of the light truck exemption, and because SUVs and trucks are cheaper to build . . .

And sell for more.

[Goodheart]

43. The fundamental question: WHY have a sedan when you can have a hatchback

or SUV that enables you to better carry things, with a minimal loss of fuel economy?

Sedans are impractical... it's as simple as that. It's a wonder they've lasted this long.

[PCIntern]

50. Since we are all comparing preferences:

I commuted 130 miles a day with my Honda CRV and never ever had a single issue with the car. It’s fantastic in every sense and to let you know, I swore I’d never own an SUV but I’m a handyman at home as well so as another poster wrote, a 10’ piece of lumber fits in the car.

My other two cars are the anomalies: a 2019 Red Miata we call Ruby and a 1970 Volvo 1800E, the car Roger Moore drove in The Saint. Hard to get in and out of, visibility poor, safety questionable BUT…they are so frigging cool to drive and to engage with other people when you exit or enter the vehicle.

[EX500rider]

66. Sweet Volvo, have always loved those (pic for those that don't know what they are)

[PCIntern]

84. Here she is:

30 years to restore.

[EX500rider]

75. One of my fav cars on Jay Lenos Garage was this P1800:

&t=958s

[Ocelot II]

51. A small SUV like my old Saturn Vue is more practical than a sedan

if you need to haul stuff. They don't make Saturns any more, unfortunately, but I'd get another similar vehicle just because a small SUV is easier to load and to get in and out of.

[fishwax]

53. because they could make SUVs without adhering to the stricter fuel efficiency standards of sedans

There were also (starting in the 60s) regulations and tariffs on imports of trucks that didn't apply to cars, incentivizing domestic car companies to increase truck production for that competitive advantage. Then you add fuel efficiency standards in the seventies and the emerging competition of Japanese cars in the 70s and 80s., making SUVs and crossovers a competitive opportunity for domestic manufacturers.

[Arthur_Frain]

55. Their inexpensive cars have always been shit.

I needed a new truck in the early 2000’s. Really wanted to buy American, but I wanted a small truck, so a friend lent me his ford ranger. Damned thing gave me the impression that I was breaking it just driving it down the highway. Dodge Dakota, Chevy Colorado, gmc canyon, all were budget, stripped down bare basics versions of a truck with no conveniences. In order to get a quality truck you had to move up to at least a 3/4 ton, which wasn’t anything I wanted or needed. I ended up with a Tacoma that is closing in on 300,000 miles and has given me zero problems. Plus it’s got all the trimmings, 4wd with limited slip differential, a tow package.

Detroit never recovered from when Toyota and Datsun took over the American car market in the late 70s thru the 80s. I mean really, compare ford pintos and Chevy vegas with Datsun 240z or Toyota celica, they never even really tried. American car companies have shown amazing stupidity and stubbornness over the years.

[EX500rider]

68. They got better though

My 2002 Ford Focus ZX5 5 speed I had for 10 years and put 100,000 miles on never broke once and was light (2,600lbs) and handled very well
(I had the ST suspension on it which put is around .92g)

?h=1000

[Arthur_Frain]

88. Why did it take so long?

I’d disagree on when it happened too, I don’t think they’ve gotten stylistically comparable until very, very recently. The last four or five years in fact, Ford has gotten around to making the Ranger a good looking vehicle, on par with Tacoma or Frontier, same for Chevy and GM with their light trucks.

I thought the focus redesign finally looked decent around 2010 or so. And those were still overpriced when compared with Subarus similar offerings.

[MichMan]

73. A Pinto or Vega is not even remotely in the same class as a 240Z Sports car

It's a ridiculous comparison. The Pinto & Vega were the lowest priced cars Ford and Chevrolet sold while the 240Z was Datsun's most expensive offering.

An appropriate comparison would be a Datsun B210 or a Toyota Corolla.

[Arthur_Frain]

85. Not ridiculous, it's what we were given the choice of by Detroit.

What were American car companies doing that was comparable to the 240/260/280z? Nothing. If chrysler thought the K-car chassis was anything any of us wanted they were daft. Pacers. Gremlins. Detroit still made Chargers, and Challengers, and Mustangs and Mach ones, gas guzzling muscle cars that most didn’t want after OPEC screwed us in the 70s.

[MichMan]

91. Capri or Opel GT ?

Sold at your local Lincoln-Mercury or Buick dealer. The Capri V6 was my choice.

240Z got a whopping 15 mpg. lol

https://www.fuelly.com/car/datsun/240z/1973#:~:text=1973%20Datsun%20240z%20MPG%20Based%20on%20data%20from,15.08%20with%20a%201.59%20MPG%20margin%20of%20error.

K Car didn't come out until 1981, which was after the Vega, Pinto, and 240Z had ceased production.

How was the Mustang II a gas guzzling muscle car?

[Arthur_Frain]

101. Nice random points bro

So we disagree.

Have a great day and look for somebody else to disagree with

And stick your emojis too, eh?

😜😘😆🤣😘🥰

[OAITW r.2.0]

87. Agree...the 240Z was a pretty awesome sports vehicle back in the 70's.

My folks bought a Chevy Vega. Learned to drive on that car. It was a POS. Had a Cogsworth Aluminum block engine that eventually needed replacement, due to warpage.. My folks then bought a VW Squareback that was a lot more practical. Also was a manual transmission that I leaned to drive.

I have a 2007 VW Passat that I garage in the winter. Bought a 2018 Ram 1500 coming off of lease a couple years ago. It barely fits in my garage....I have to collapse the side view mirrors so I don't rip them off backing out of the garage. I wanted a Dakota sized truck, but they stopped making those @ 2015 I think.

[Tom Kitten]

59. I miss my '77 Toyota Celica

My sister bought it originally, it was in our family 33 years. Finally it became impossible to find parts for You could put more in the back ( it was a liftback) than these cybertrucks. Plus it was a lot of fun to drive!

[AllaN01Bear]

60. if i were able to drive,,, id like to get my hands on a japanese k truck

https://minitrucks.net/pages/japanese-mini-trucks-to-canada

[shrike3]

62. Have no interest in an SUV

But I don't carry a lot of things around with me. Other people do, and they need a bigger car.

[dsc]

63. A couple of years ago I bought my first foreign made car

and it was entirely because I wanted a car and not a SUV. I had two Ford focuses (a 2005, then a 2014) and by 2021 I needed a new car. Ford made no sedans, Chrystler only 1, and GM made a few. All of them were either vastly smaller than the Kia K5 or more expensive or both. So I got a Kia K5 and so far it has been great.

[CanonRay]

67. I recall your 3rd paragraph question being asked

in the late 1970s. The US made crap small cars then too.

[Poiuyt]

69. I fucking HATE SUVs

I don't know what it's like in other parts of the country, but where I live, it seems as if everybody has an SUV or a large pickup truck. I can't fault people who have a need for one of these vehicles - if you need to tow a trailer or a boat, if you need to haul a lot of cargo or a large family. But I know of more and more people who think of SUVs as kind of a status symbol. They need to get one because that's what everyone else has. In the meantime, they're clogging up the roads and tight parking lots. (Parking spaces haven't gotten wider though the vehicles have gotten larger). I saw a post a couple of days ago stating that there was a trend away from SUVs, but I sure don't see it.

Thank you for letting me rant.

[Niagara]

78. My vehicle actually sits on a chassis made for a Ford Ranger

Although the much newer Makes and Models don't.



You can rant all you want to, Poiuyt.

[flvegan]

70. US car companies didn't, US car buyers did.

Let's face it, many Americans want a couple of things out of their daily vehicle:
1. Practicality. The ability to haul Suzy and Timmy and their after school crap all at once. Getting a parent, 2 kids, maybe another infant in a car seat (because we have a breeding problem), and those kids' assorted stuff at once is going to require more space. And no sedan is going to get you and your 40 gallon tub of mayo and 88 rolls of toilet paper home from Costco.
2. "Elevated" seating position. Yes, they feel "safer" sitting another few inches higher, because one out of every few vehicles is a truck with a bumper height of your left temple in a sedan.
3. They want what everyone else has. "Don't judge me for just having 4 doors and no room for a wedding cake in the back!"
4. Anything but a minivan, because getting one is nothing short of an admission that their lives are over, no matter how good a decision it may be. Seriously, get a minivan.

Most smaller "SUV" vehicles are actually just hatchbacks wearing lifts, just don't tell the owners that.

Now, as a certified car nut/snob, I'm not going to run through the OP's choice of fanboy philosophy and the A3. Is it a good car? All that matters is that it is to the OP, as it's their money. But to say US car companies can't build a popular sedan, how many Tesla sedans do you see? Dodge Chargers (that aren't cops)? I'm not saying they're any good, but people buy them. A lot of them. Lastly, if an American wants a sedan, they're probably just going to buy a Camry, used or otherwise. It's the smarter choice for average money and it's easier than thinking it through.

[ForgedCrank]

72. Car companies

have completely different product line focus in different regions. It's just part of the culture differences between one place and another.
In the US, there is a much larger demand for pickup trucks and "SUV" type vehicles. I take issue with the "SUV" description because they aren't truly SUV's since they are almost all built on flimsy platforms with large cabin space. An actual SUV can pull a loaded implement trailer off-road or climb it's way through forestry roads and trails, and last more than a week doing so.
Todays SUV is really nothing more than what once used to be the "Station Wagon", and for some reason, that's what Americans want.
There is still a market here for smaller cars and sedans, and some models are still offered, but the profit levels there are far smaller which has led American mfg to simply start abandoning that class of vehicle and leave it to the foreign operators such as Nissan, Honda and VW. Design, tooling and labor costs are so high, it's just not worth it to produce those models here in this market.
American mfg's had quality issues during the 70's etc, but so did the foreign vehicles, they were pretty much all garbage. The Japanese sorted out the quality issues first, and that drove the American manufacturers to fix their problems in the 80's. In todays world, an American built car, apples to apples, is a very well designed and build vehicle, and most certainly on par with what you can get from any other manufacturer.

[NowISeetheLight]

74. Big Caddy

I love my five year old big Cadillac sedan. It reminds me of the old Fleetwoods of the 70s. It still looks really modern too and I've had people compliment it in parking lots. Cadillac first attempts at the artsy look really sucked (think the original CTS). They did get better though and new ones like the CT5 are really sharp. For almost twenty years I drove coupes. Not married and no kids so big cars weren't needed.

While I miss the utility of my previous SUV I also had a Jag then for fun. If I could have any car now I'd probably pick a Jaguar XF Sportbrake (wagon). Some utility with the fun of a sports car. Of course if money wrre no option it would be a Bentley Flying Spur.

[bucolic_frolic]

77. Because there is very little profit in sedans. The $9,.000 profits are in SUVs.

It's that simple.

[YorkRd]

80. Compact Crossovers are vastly more popular than sedans

The bestselling Toyota is a RAV4 ad bestselling Honda is CRV. The best selling and most profitable vehicles in the USA are pickups. In my upscale neighborhood BMW and Lexus crossovers dominate. Crossovers are much more practical to get in and out of, visibility, cargo, kids and child seats and better for our poor roads.
Ironically the shape of modern crossovers is very similar to sedans from the 30’s and 40’s.

[roamer65]

81. My Chevy Cruze is a really well built sedan.

Amazing gas mileage too.

American nameplates just don’t like vehicles with smaller profit margins. Been that way for years.

[a kennedy]

83. I just want to say that the Lexus brand sure stinks.......

They used to be so awesome in design, now I think they’re just ugly. Who thought that their new grill design was even acceptable?? Ugly in my opinion.

https://www.lexus.com/models/UX-hybrid

[Jilly_in_VA]

92. I have a Honda HRV

I don't like it very much. My husband made me trade my 2005 CRV, which had never given me any trouble, for this thing, because "yours has 100K miles on it and it will start giving you trouble soon enough." The salesman tried to talk me into a FIT, FFS! I said no immediately. I wanted another CRV but the budget would not allow it, so I had to settle for this. I have never liked it.

[moondust]

94. What's wrong with the Fit?

I was thinking a Fit Hybrid might be okay.

[MurrayDelph]

99. The biggest problem with the Fit

is there they don't offer it in the US anymore. Otherwise, when we gave away our 2011 Fit to a down-on-her-luck friend we would have replaced it with a new one.

On the other hand, if you want to go to another country, you can buy a Honda Jazz, which is the same model with a different badge.

[Jilly_in_VA]

108. It's UGLY

And way too SMALL for what I do. How the hell am I going to transport 2-6 critters in that stupid thing? It's a scramble even in the HRV on the occasions that I do have to transport that many,
And it's UGLY. FUGLY, even. Very. Plus too small. I'd feel extremely vulnerable in anything that size.

[moondust]

109. Oh. Okay.

Thanks.

[spooky3]

105. I think they're ugly too, but I'm not their target demographic.

I like flowing lines.

[kimbutgar]

93. I just brought a Hyundai Sonata hybrid sedan and I love it

I wanted to buy American but couldn’t find a sedan with a trunk. I had a Dodge avenger sedan and loved it but all Dodges we looked at were muscles gas guzzling cars. I was not going to buy a Tesla and Ford snd Gm not many choices. I also own a Buick Encore which is a great little car.

[brooklynite]

95. Because...people didn't want to buy them?

Manufacturers build cars that people want to drive.

[KentuckyWoman]

97. I drove a 1985 Escort hatchback until 2017.

I purchase for function, not emotion. My husband and I both worked too hard for our money. I wonder if the gap between wages and spending power has anything to do with how people buy vehicles.

I drive an SUV now. Yes it has some nice fancy things, like the back up camera and the hatch on the key fob. Even heated seats. The SUV is versatile and I like the sight lines of sitting up a little higher. It's all about function.

[Captain Zero]

104. I honestly don't see how most people over 65 get their ass up and into a truck/suv

Or younger people driving around in a huge vehicle with disability plates or environmental plates. do they know how ridiculous that looks?

One of my pastimes is watching video of car accidents and watching how vehicles with high centers of gravity just flip and roll at the slightest bump involving speed. They look dangerous to me.

And trust me if you want to be hated you are hated when you drive a vehicle that sedan drivers can't see through, can't see over, can't see around, and when we have to make room for YOU to make a tight corner that you could make easily in a sedan. often though that because the suv drive just lack the basic skill to drive a vehicle much less and suv.

Also, I have to let you in on another thing, easily half of suv drivers are piss poor drivers and having the suv does not help them in the least. SUV drivers, generally speaking, are a road hazard themselves.

I think the case could be made for having to pass a cdl level of license with a DRIVING TEST FOR SUVS, PICKUPS, AND VANS. It would save on accidents, injuries, lives, gas, and insurance claims.

[MichMan]

106. You won't find one politician who will ever propose requiring a CDL for drivers of Pickups, Vans and SUV.

Not if they ever plan on being re elected

[Freddie]

113. I hate getting into them

DH and son drive Santa Fe’s and love them. Especially my son because he has a toddler and it’s easier with the car seat and all the baby stuff. Plus it’s 4WD which he does NOT need in Florida.
I drive a 2011 Dodge Caliber which I love. Was probably the last US made “econobox”. No matter where I go it’s the smallest car in the lot. Always get a “pull-through” space as you can’t see around the SUV and truck behemoths to back out of a space.

[yellowdogintexas]

116. I just purchased a Nissan Rogue and I love it!!!

My previous car was a 2007 Altima and I loved it but it was murdered by a driver running a redlight. I had expected another 5 years from that car, too.

I had to drive my husband's Ford F150 4WD for 18 months waiting for prices to come down. I hate driving it!!! (it;s also so high off the ground I could use a ladder to get into it)

I decided to get a crossover because the new sedans were too low to the ground to get into comfortably. I can back up to the edge of the seat, & swing my legs in under the wheel with ease. I love the extra load space, and it handles like a dream. It's just tall enough that I get extra visibility. All the new electronic devices are great, especially the back up screen!!! It's going to take a while to master all that stuff though.

If I had gone the sedan route it would have been another Altima.

[doc03]

120. I am 75 one reason I bought a SUV they easier to get in and

out of. My last car was a Ford Fusion Titanium it was like a Lincoln MKZ and $15k less. It was a great car but
you nearly sat on the ground. I have a 2020 Honda CRV now it easy to get in and out of, easy to park and more room.
I miss the power of the 2L turbo in the Ford though. I agree the giant SUVs and pickups are too high to climb into.

[Niagara]

123. I'm not yet 50

My previous vehicle was a sedan that sat low to the ground. I owned it for 15 years. When I bought it, I didn't have issues with my back hurting trying to get in and out of it. However, the last several years that I had it, it really hurt my back trying to get in and out of it.


I now have a SUV and it sits just at the correct height that it's easy for me to get in and out without a bunch of grunting and groaning.


I live in Buffalo and it doesn't matter what type of vehicle Buffalo drivers own (or lease), they all pretty much drive like assholes. It's like an entire city (and suburbs of Buffalo) received their license from a cracker jack box.

I've encountered plenty of sedans that are piss poor drivers.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

110. Simple

Sales fell as consumers switched to SUV's, trucks, and crossovers, and profits on them sucked. No point, from a financial standpoint, to waste money on R&D and tooling to make a vehicle that has low profit margins that few people want.

From what I have been told from friends in the auto industry, sedan sales have fallen steadily since 2011-12. Single digit drops year over year for some, double digit for others. Crossover and small SUV sales have done the opposite. Designing a new vehicle takes years and substantial investment. Companies are not going to invest much into a product that is seeing year over year declines in sales, especially when its across the board of all makes, not just them.

For the OP, look at the A3's sales figures. In 2022 Audi sold 11,000 A3's. For Mazda MX5 it was just 6,000. For the BMW 3 Series it was 30,000.

For a small SUV like the Chevy Equinox, it was 212,000.

Those manufacturers still turn a decent profit on their sedans so they keep making them. But they are not sales leaders by any stretch. Those companies best sellers are all SUV's. Audi's best selling model is the Q5. The sold 57,000 in 2022. BMW's top seller was the X5. For Mazda it was the CX-5.

Sedans simply do not sell like they used to. Consumer preferences have changed.

[WarGamer]

111. We just bought a new Camry...

Made in the USA...

The last year of this current generation. in a lot of ways, old school with a very modern drivetrain.

It's a tank and will last 250k miles easy... my wife drives it for work and puts a lot of miles on her cars...

[Valdosta]

112. I have a Honda Insight (sedan), but I don't need a sedan.

I bought it because it was the best gas mileage hybrid that year (2020). As it happens a sedan.

[Silent Type]

114. I'd buy another VW Golf hatchback, but VW no longer sells them in USA

unless you are willing to spend an extra $10 K for a GTI. I’ve always preferred small cars.

[RubyRose]

117. SUVs do everything a sedan can but better

[Kaleva]

118. People prefer crossovers, pickups and SUVs over sedans

Look at the vehicles parked at a large parking lot

[doc03]

119. They were not profitable. They make $10K each on pickups and

SUVs.

[MichMan]

129. Because people want them and are willing to pay the asking price

There is nothing inherently different that makes one more profitable than the other

[TexasBushwhacker]

121. More profit in big trucks and SUVs

The only reason they make any smaller vehicles is so they can hit their CAFE targets, which only count passenger vehicles and light duty trucks and SUVs (under 6000 lbs). The newest CAFE target for 2024 to 2026 is 40 mpg, but that includes hybrids and EVs.

[kskiska]

122. I have no use for an SUV.

I rarely drive anyone but myself and rarely need to carry anything too large to fit in my old Toyota.

[IcyPeas]

124. Nissan Versa 2007: It's as sexy as room temperature tofu...

That was a quote from the car reviewer of the LA Times.

I currently drive this Versa. It's a hatchback. My last car was a 1991 Mazda 323 hatchback.

I've only ever driven small cars.

[usedtobedemgurl]

125. If I am going to drive, I need an SUV.

I have chronic back problems as well as arthritis in my hips. Not sure which one (or maybe both) make it hard for me to get out and stand up from a sedan, but the SUV is higher up and makes it easier on me. Sometimes after riding in a sedan, I can hardly move. I need someone’s help to get out and still I have to stop and stretch before I can walk. If I was offered a free sedan, for my use only, I could not take it. It would make life very difficult for me and much more painful.

[Aussie105]

127. Love the car you drive?

Fair enough.
You had your reasons for your choice, and are now emotionally and financially invested in it.

Hate the vehicles others drive?
Fair enough.
But their reasons aren't the same as yours.
Not a very tolerant or productive attitude either.

But the manufacturers give you a whole wide range of choices, and it is the buying public that chooses.
So if you see a shift from small sedans to SUVs and don't like it, blame the buying public.

I own both a sedan and a SUV.
Both are good at what they do.

[NickB79]

130. Because car size became an arms race with the introduction of SUV's and luxury trucks

Used to be that families drove station wagons, and trucks were reserved for farm and construction work. Everyone else drove compacts and sedans. Then SUV's took the place of station wagons, and trucks got fancy with crew cabs that could haul the family around. People liked the feeling of being higher up, the added versatility (that they almost never actually used), and the extra horsepower. Once a certain amount of Americans started driving these bigger vehicles, the guys in the smaller vehicles started to worry about getting in an accident against them. So they upsized. Compacts became the size of sedans, and sedans became even bigger. Then the SUV's got bigger, and the trucks got bigger. Some manufacturers tried to substitute safety features like airbags for sheer mass, but then the SUV's and trucks got those too.

Now, almost everyone drives big vehicles. A compact car from just 15 years ago, like my beloved old Scion xA, would be utterly destroyed in a head-on collision with a new F-150, much less an much heavier F-150 Lightning. Same for my old 1991 Pontiac sedan. And the trend for heavier vehicles is only going up with EV's, as the battery packs weigh a literal ton.

[MichMan]

131. Did you forget how big full size cars were in the late 50's to mid 70's?

Cars like an 1972 Oldsmobile 98 for example.

[NickB79]

134. A 72 Oldsmobile had a curb weight of 4700 lb, if Google is to be trusted

A 2000 Tahoe tips the scales at 6,000 lb. A gas F150 is 5000 lb. A 2023 Ford Lightning hits 6500 lb. A 2023 Hummer EV is pushing 9000!

My 1991 Pontiac Grand Am weighed 2500 lb. The gas shortages of the 70's really reset the playing field for a while there, killing off the big sedans and letting the small, lightweight models take over for a time.

[marble falls]

133. Because they make more money on pick-ups, and people weren't buying enough sedans ...

... They want to make as much as they can and they don't care about the sedan market. I did see a KIA sedan on the road a few days back and it was sharp.