General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf Settler Violence Wasn't Enough, Israel Is Now Depriving Jordan Valley Palestinians of Water
Since the start of the war, some 20 Palestinian families have been forced out of their homes in the Jordan Valley by heightened settler violence. Meanwhile, the army denies the shepherd communities access to water. Israeli volunteers are trying to protect them day and nightFrom Haaretz by Gideon Levy and Alex Levac
Twelve forty-five, this past Monday, in the northern Jordan Valley. The northern section of the Allon Road (Highway 578) is deserted, as usual, but by the roadside, between the settlements of Ro'i and Beka'ot, a small convoy of water tanks, pulled by tractors and trucks, is standing and waiting. And waiting. Waiting till the sheep come home. Soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces were supposed to come a few hours ago to open the iron gate, but the IDF isn't showing up and isn't calling either, as the song goes. When the number listed by the army on the yellow gate is called, the phone on the other side of the line is answered and then immediately disconnected. An activist with Machsom Watch: Women for Human Rights, Tamar Berger, has tried three times this morning, and each time, as soon as she identified herself, the other side slammed the phone down demonstratively. The Palestinian drivers are afraid to call.
This is the time of the yellow wind, the time of the water carriers in the northern Jordan Valley, who are compelled to wait for hours upon hours until the army force that holds the key arrives and opens the gate for those hauling the water to enter. In this parched region, Israel doesn't allow the Palestinian residents to hook up to any water supply network: They and their sheep must depend on the expensive water that's transported in the tanks, and the drivers of the trucks and the tractors are totally dependent on a soldier with a key.
SNIP
The soldier with the rifle that's aimed at us chews his donut lazily, one hand holding it, the other on the trigger. All together now: "Maoz tzur yeshuati" "O mighty stronghold of my salvation." The truck with the animal feed doesn't get through. No coordination. An officer wearing a kippa is summoned to the site and from a distance takes our picture with his phone.
The IDF Spokesperson's Unit, in response to an inquiry from Haaretz about the irregular operation of the checkpoint: "In the wake of a number of security events that have occurred here, the gate was blocked in part. Passage through the gate is with coordination only, and is permitted according to the operational situation appraisal in the sector."
SNIP
One family left, the volunteers relate, after settlers from Shadmot Mehola and their Shabbat guests from a religious boarding school at Kibbutz Tirat Zvi broke the arm of the father of the family. "Two weeks ago," explains Gutterman, "when three friends of ours were here, settlers roused the whole tent camp at 2:30 A.M. with shouts and flashlights, and frightened everyone. Then they started to plow a plot of private land that had recently been declared 'abandoned land.'"
Less than two weeks ago, two volunteers were attacked here. One was beaten with a club and was pepper-sprayed in his eyes, the other took a stone to the head. "There is a campaign of ethnic cleansing going on here," Gutterman says.
This is a long article that I only could use snippets. But about something I had no idea about. For me - frightening and brings home how much we dont know about how Palestinians live - with so much attention on Gaza many forget how difficult it is in other areas of Israel as well. Thank goodness for the brave Jewish volunteers who attempt to help these shepherds
If interested in learning more than just tweets - I recommend reading the whole article.
https://archive.is/u9pPt]
Lonestarblue
(13,158 posts)They established open-air prisons in Gaza and the West Bank, then gave violent settlers the right, supported by a rabid IDF, to take Palestinians lands and simply kill them if they objected or fought back. Palestinians have few rights. Israel controls their water, though a few of them have wells. It is a favorite tactic of the settlers to prison the wells so Palestinians have to abandon the property of find fresh water elsewhere every day. I read several years ago that Israel limited the amount of water for each person in Gaza to the equivalent of one 16 ounce bottle per dayfor all uses. Gazans used salty water for showers, washing clothes, etc., because the underground aquifers could not support over 2 million people.
Israel made Gaza and the West Bank interment camps for Palestinians. Most of the world just ignored their mistreatment and their continuing illegal taking of Palestinian lands. I hope this current cisis finally results in real change for the Palestinians.
David__77
(24,500 posts)The US should not be supporting this and economic pressure on companies not to do business in settlements seems reasonable.
Nanjeanne
(6,486 posts)stonecutter357
(12,958 posts)sanatanadharma
(4,075 posts)There are Israeli settlers pushing to occupy all the west bank, expanding Israel from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordon River.
Big Blue Marble
(5,661 posts)say from the river to the sea meaning the Euphrates to the Red Sea.
IronLionZion
(50,616 posts)So the settlers and IDF make life unbearable hoping people will choose to leave. Except they have nowhere to go. Not a good situation.
2naSalit
(99,388 posts)TeamProg
(6,630 posts)wont be enough.
I mean,
roamer65
(37,813 posts)The Great Middle East War.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)Who would be on the side of Hamas and the PA in this Great Middle East war? Not the Arab states who have washed their hands of the Palestinians.
TeamProg
(6,630 posts)Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Mexicans don't equal rapists.
Trans people don't equal child predators.
Americans don't equal maga.
Blacks don't equal thugs....
You get the picture.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)At every point people in Gaza have celebrated the death of Israelis. A mob of people in Gaza attacked the hostages being released.
Hamas had to keep the crowds from killing the hostages. Google is full of videos. There is no evidence the majority of the people in Gaza are opposed to the goals of Hamas. No evidence.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...and hamas has not allowed an election since then.
You say " There is no evidence the majority of the people in Gaza are opposed to the goals of Hamas. No evidence."
You might find the below survey interested, it was taken just before 10/6...
"The argument that the entire population of Gaza can be held responsible for Hamass actions is quickly discredited when one looks at the facts. Arab Barometer, a research network where we serve as co-principal investigators, conducted a survey in Gaza and the West Bank days before the Israel-Hamas war broke out. The findings, published here for the first time, reveal that rather than supporting Hamas, the vast majority of Gazans have been frustrated with the armed groups ineffective governance as they endure extreme economic hardship. Most Gazans do not align themselves with Hamass ideology, either. Unlike Hamas, whose goal is to destroy the Israeli state, the majority of survey respondents favored a two-state solution with an independent Palestine and Israel existing side by side.
(Full article: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas )
Non-paywall link: https://archive.is/7mWq0
former9thward
(33,424 posts)I could not read the article at the link because it was paywalled. I wish it were true but I am very skeptical about it.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...here's a non-paywall link: https://archive.is/7mWq0
former9thward
(33,424 posts)artemisia1
(1,184 posts)TeamProg
(6,630 posts)think today's youth is very interested in wars, so maybe that will dampen the heat down a bit.
There are far more Sunnis than Shiites ( 10% of all Muslims, majority in only a handful of countries: Iran, Iraq, Bahrain) in the M.E. if that carries any weight, but then ISIS is Sunni based.
So....
Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)LymphocyteLover
(9,216 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)This war is happening and it will not end until Hamas is destroyed. It is Hamas who has put civilians in danger by hiding amongst them, by storing their weapons in/near/under schools, hospitals, nursing homes, etc. It's Hamas who have established that they will steal and hoard and ration incoming aid/water/fuel/food/meds. It's a heartbreaking shame that this is happening, but we mustn't lose sight of why it's happening. I hope the war ends soon and that Hamas is destroyed.
dembotoz
(16,922 posts)Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)That's not what I said. What I said was: They are the unfortunate collateral victims of a war that Hamas started.
Big Blue Marble
(5,661 posts)Starving the people of Gaza and destroying the homes, medical facilities, and civil Infrastructure
of 2.5 million people is far more than collateral damage. It is collective punishment.
Over 75,000 people have been injured or killed and nearly half of them are children.
Think about this terms of individual human suffering not just "unfortunate collateral victims."
Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)* and by stockpiling weapons and creating command centers in/around/among/under/inside schools and hospitals and markets. In addition to the kidnapping and rape, and sexual-mutilation, and rape with weapons, and murder while raping, and gang rape... these are all things that Hamas has done, and the actions of Hamas have consequences. These are the tragic consequences.
>> Your statement is dehumanizing and minimizing of the Palestinian suffering.
No, it does no such thing. It simply states the cold hard facts and the honest truth of how and why all of this is happening. Whether it's described individually or collectively, it really changes nothing, does it. The fact remains that this is because of Hamas and only Hamas can make it stop.
ancianita
(42,725 posts)destroying Hamas leadership that's sitting pretty in Qatar.
The Muslim world wants them there.
Unless our CIA's Will Burns, State Dept's Blinken and President Biden know their names and can do a workaround deal with the Emir of Qatar -- which is unlikely -- the reality is that as long as Hamas leadership exists, Hamas, charter and all, will continue to exist.
Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)ck4829
(37,315 posts)LymphocyteLover
(9,216 posts)why are they collateral damage in this part of the country?
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)Palestinians in general seem to be the unwanted element. We can't blame Hamas for everything in life. Palestinian harassment & displacement is much older than any current resistance group.
Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)Their actions make sense to me. Yes, we can blame Hamas for everything.
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)But I like your way with words. Mycelium & tendrils. Very nicely put.
ancianita
(42,725 posts)Muslim world for using extremist proxies to fight the West in general, which is why Biden sent the 6th Fleet to keep that proxy war from regionally expanding. Proxy wars are wars of choice.
Blame the Muslim world for not caring about their Palestinian brothers & sisters enough to have give them land to form their own state, which they could do, but refuse to do.
Look at a map of the region and you can see how land could be donated to the Palestinians. But proxy believer wars are wars of choice.
Diraven
(1,774 posts)So other Muslim countries should kick their own citizens out of their homes to give them instead to West Bank Palestinians who are being driven out of their own homes by Israeli settlers who want to steal their land?
ancianita
(42,725 posts)Maybe read up on the history of who's responsible for Israel's existence.
Read up on whether or not Palestinians have a formal treaty that proves they have a state or homeland that's being stolen.
When you find it, please link it.
If Palestinians are not internationally recognized as a nation or state, then on what basis do they claim the land they live on is theirs? Please link that as well.
Nevermind. No offense, but I'm not going to explain history, international law, believer wars, or any terms of human rights with you. We have leaders for figuring how these two peoples are going to coexist.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)LuvLoogie
(8,442 posts)Nobody is buying tit for tat arguments anymore. These policies are entrenched in the Knesset and Netanyahu's coalition. The U.S. needs to stop coddling them, openly.
Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)I doubt that.
ancianita
(42,725 posts)Israel first, each and every time, for decades. Israel wouldn't be defensively driving for land if the Muslim world's ayatollahs or other religious leaders had already donated land to the Palestinians for their own state.
The Muslim world could have enabled a two state solution decades ago, and could right now stop its current pretense that any peace solution is solely on Israel and its Western allies.
Nanjeanne
(6,486 posts)ancianita
(42,725 posts)Netanyahu has held back because rich Muslim neighbors have also held back.
knightmaar
(748 posts)Just slower so some people could pretend they didn't notice.
TeamProg
(6,630 posts)IronLionZion
(50,616 posts)Settler violence has been happening for years. It's only been deemed newsworthy now because the world's attention is on the Gaza war after the Hamas 10/7 attacks.
LymphocyteLover
(9,216 posts)story that gets lost here.
Also, most people just don't have time to read this sort of long reporting.
Nanjeanne
(6,486 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 16, 2023, 01:01 PM - Edit history (1)
Powerful writing. And just in case you didnt realize, its not reporting. Its an in depth expose.
Different strokes so no need to read it if its not your cuppa.
Levy is a writer with many awards including the Emil Grunzweig Human Rights Award in 1996 from the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, the Anna Lindh Foundation Journalism Award in 2008 for an article he wrote about Palestinian children killed by Israeli forces, and the Peace Through Media Award in 2012. In 2021, Levy was awarded Israel's top journalism award, the Sokolow Prize. In its citation, the prize committee wrote that Levy "presents original and independent positions that do not surrender to convention or social codes, and in doing so enriches the public discourse fearlessly."
So I dont think he will change his evocative writing to make it easier for some to digest. Hes not writing for Twitter.
Goddessartist
(2,176 posts)Saving this article as well.
LymphocyteLover
(9,216 posts)I always wonder how many people do read these sorts of pieces.
Personally I like getting news that's straight to the point and then reading longer form writing in book form. But to each their own!
Nanjeanne
(6,486 posts)News is something I consume quickly and briefly. Books, magazine articles, long interviews - thats my way of getting history and background and facts and ideas I may not have known or thought about. One piece can lead me to research something else. Like dominoes. Ive read many pieces by Gideon Levy. His book, The Punishment of Gaza I read maybe 10 years ago. Hes hated by many of the right wing Israeli government and Ive been introduced to his work by Israeli leftist peace activists that my family have worked with.
Not everyone enjoys going into the weeds on things. I do. But I dont consider it news. For me it impacts how I think about news.
Cheezoholic
(3,472 posts)just as much as religion or anything else. And it's only going to get worse with climate change combining with the demands for the resource as populations in these small areas explode like they have over the last 100 years. The Middle East isn't the only place water is becoming the most valuable resource around. Hell we're already seeing it in the West here at home. The water resources in these areas worldwide simply cannot support the massive human populations trying to slurp every drop. The sound of the bottom of the milk shake glass will only get louder in the years to come.
knightmaar
(748 posts)malaise
(291,767 posts)Take that to the bank
BannonsLiver
(20,175 posts)elias7
(4,229 posts)I don't mean to be an asshole and I don't support what Israel is doing militarily in this moment, but this is a war and it is hard for Israel to play by the rules when Hamas, Houthis, Hezbollah are attacking Israel from all sides, using citizens as shields, and most frustratingly, not being encouraged by the rest of the world to play by the rules. These terrorist groups (or freedom fighters?) are being treated as if they have no agency for their own behavior. I don't feel that is right either.
But it so very heartening hearing of these Jewish volunteers taking the high road and helping the Palestinian shepherds; they are the bridge two seemingly irreconcilable peoples.
Nanjeanne
(6,486 posts)in various organizations within Israel and elsewhere towards peace.
TeamProg
(6,630 posts)moniss
(8,550 posts)the West Bank for many years the tactic of control of the water resource has been used to try and drive people away.
Goddessartist
(2,176 posts)spraying it all over Palestinian homes.
Bayard
(28,200 posts)Just taking Indigenous lands, and killing them if they object. All with the U.S. government's blessing.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)Nanjeanne
(6,486 posts)BTselem, the Israeli Human Rights organization can provide you with much information. It requires reading, not looking at a tweet - but for anyone who is actually inclined to know history and facts - its worth a read.
Dispossession and Exploitation: Israel's Policy in the Jordan Valley and Northern Dead Sea
https://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/dispossession-and-exploitation-israels-policy-jordan-valley-northern-dead-sea]
Heres a part about the water discussion. Certainly policy that has nothing to do with Hamas or 10/7.
Israel has taken control of most of the water sources in the area and has earmarked them for the almost exclusive use of the settlers.
Most Israeli water drillings in the West Bank 28 of the 42 drillings are located in the Jordan Valley. These drillings provide Israel with some 32 million m3 a year, most of which is allocated to the settlements. The annual allocation of water to the areas 9,400 settlers from the drillings, the Jordan River, treated wastewater, and artificial water reservoirs is 45 million m3. The water allocated to the settlements has enabled them to develop intensive-farming methods and to work the land year round, with most of the produce being exported. The water allocation to the settlements is almost one-third the quantity of water that is accessible to the 2.5 million Palestinians living in the West Bank.
Israels control of the water sources in the area has caused some Palestinian wells drying up and has led to a drop in the quantity of water that can be produced from other wells and from springs. In comparison, in 2008, Palestinians pumped 31 million m3, which is 44 percent less than Palestinians produced in the area prior to the Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement of 1995. Due to the water shortage, Palestinians were forced to neglect farmland that had been in cultivation and switch to growing less profitable crops. In the Jericho governorate, the amount of land used for agriculture is the lowest among the Palestinian governorates in the West Bank 4.7 percent compared to an average of 25 percent in the other governorates.
Israels control of most of the land area also prevents equal distribution of water resources to the Palestinian communities in the area; it also prevents the movement of water to Palestinian communities outside the area. Water consumption in Beduin communities is equivalent to the quantity that the UN has set as the minimal quantity needed to survive in humanitarian-disaster areas.
WarGamer
(18,200 posts)From before it's founding, Israeli leaders have been very much pro-kicking out the Palestinians.
From David Ben-Gurion to Nuttyahoo... nothing has changed.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...and yet so many are pretending that 10/7 started it all.
Response to Nanjeanne (Original post)
redgreenandblue This message was self-deleted by its author.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)that if it was successful wipes Israel off the globe but since they were defeated lands captured are stolen?
I'm inclined to provide directions to the nearest rusty dumpster and instructions on using it for self pleasure.
Seems to me the posture after making that grave miscalculation would be closer to hat in hand asking forgiveness than haughty, defiant demands and violence.
What demands would they have entertained had they won?
Would there have been any Palestinian? Nope! Just like there wasn't one before in Arab lands, ever.
Come bloody murder (preferably on civilians, it seems over decades) get their asses kicked, cry foul to beat the band at the consequences, radicalize, apply propaganda rinse generously, escalate, and repeat in perpetual bad faith.
They can seek reward from those they joined with in attempted genocide.
If the lands were truly so valued then they should not have been put into the middle of the table seeking the big jackpot.
If the pre 1967 borders are so important then why in 1967 did those wanting them seek to destroy them?
The settlers are another matter, it would seem a militarized buffer zone is what would serve best until proper concessions and compensation made to allow a potential negotiated return/change of ownership.
Of course, if there is no such will then the territory is again forfeited. Go take over where many hundreds of thousands were "ethnically cleansed" out of that have no right of return.