No Jews, no protests? Sudan is in free fall

[Arazi]

4.3 million displaced on top of millions of Muslim women and children slaughtered, an actual genocide happening right now and not a single march, not even 5 minutes of broadcast news time (and no Jews involved 🤔 )

Link to tweet

?s=46

[Beastly Boy]

1. I can't even begin to grasp the scale of this hypocrisy

[LetMyPeopleVote]

64. I agree

[Chainfire]

2. So, are you implying that one humanitarian disaster excuses the other?

Because people not protesting for the citizens of Sudan, they should not be protesting against Israel? What kind of twisted logic is that?

[Arazi]

5. Not implying anything, I'm straight up accusing folks of hypocrisy

The sheer hypocrisy of feigning global outrage over Israel’s war (a war instigated by Hamas), while many other far worse conflicts rage on, is ridiculous.

No Jews involved here so no protests looks a lot like antisemitism - only Israel gets singled out on the global level.

This particular genocide in Sudan (and this one is a real genocide of millions ) is invisible.

[Chainfire]

11. Feigning outrage? Trust me, I am not feigning my outrage over the slaughter in Gaza.

It has nothing to do with antiSemitism. Until just very recently I admired, respected and defended Israel. I can no longer do that. I did not change, and perhaps Israel has not changed, but perhaps we now see them, not as victims, but as agressors. Israel has the right to defend themselves, but they do not the moral authority to continue the mass executions happening today. If that makes me antiSemetic, then there are also a heck of a lot of Jewish antiSemites.

No amount of whataboutism changes the slaughter that is going on in Gaza today. The more that Israel supporters try to find excuses for what is happening to the Palestinian people, the more it confirms my feeling that it is based upon guilt. There are no excuses for what is happening in Gaza today, there is no moral justification for the unlimited warfare being waged by Israel on the people of Palestine. The innocent Palestinians who are suffering are real people, they are not some kind of untermensch; you do get that don't you?

[Arazi]

13. "If that makes me antisemitic..."

Ok, thanks

I’m not doing a “whataboutism” at all but I know why you’re trying to deflect to that. Tbh, the more pro-Palestinian supporters ignore what is happening elsewhere in the world where there’s equally and far more grim realities unfolding, the more it confirms my feeling that it’s based on antisemitism.

The innocent Rohingya, Yazidis, Yemenis, Sudanese Darfurians, Azerbaijanis etc are “real people” too. They are not some kind of untetmensch, you do get that don’t you?

[Chainfire]

17. Your judgemen of others that you wish to label as antiSemities, says more about you than the people

that you attack. The bottom line is that Israel is doing is wrong whether they are accused by it by antiSemites or others,( and there are plenty of "others" including a hell of a lot of Jews) who are accusing Israel of waging an unjust war against the population of Gaza. For the vast number of the occupants of Gaza, their only sin is having been born there.

If it make you feel better to call people who disagree with you names, then have at it. Just so you know, I am not Pro-Palestinan or Pro-Hamas, I was, until recently Pro-Israel, but no more until they change their government. That said, I do lobby for human beings who are being brutalized and I don't care what nationality, religion, or color that they happen to be.

[Arazi]

31. Huh. Can you point me to your other posts

Lobbying on behalf of “human beings who are being brutalized” no matter “what nationality, religion, or color that they happen to be”

I’d be curious to read that fierce advocacy of yours on behalf of say, the Yemenis who are being actually deliberately starved to death and bombed/ “genocided” by Saudi Arabia using almost exclusively US provided weapons

[muriel_volestrangler]

59. Azerbaijanis? That really has gone unreported.

What is their plight?

[Happy Hoosier]

45. I agree that "whataboutism" doesn;t change the tragedy of Gaza, but...

... if you're outraged about Gaza and silent about other humanitarian cotastrophes, it does raise some questions, I think.

I've seen a lot of folks here have very selective outrage.

[CincyDem]

8. Better asked, why are people NOT protesting conditions in Sudan.

If you’re all in on protesting to support Gaza because All Lives Matter, why is the world silent about Sudan? Don’t their lives matter too.

It’s not about “don’t protest Gaza because you’re not protesting Sudan”…it’s about understanding why one gets global focus 24/7 and the other gets crickets. What’s different between the two?

I think the OP is suggesting that one gets more global focus because of who is seen as the oppressor. Another reason could be the value we place on the lives of the oppressed. I’m not sure which it is but ignoring Sudan is a global exercise in one deep seated -ism or another…hard to know which one.

[Arazi]

9. 🎯

[Sympthsical]

10. It's not trendy to care about Sudan

Not enough signalling points to be had there, nor social approval to mine.

Most people need personal incentive to care.

There's a lot of social currency currently to be had in Gaza. Not so much in Sudan. Pity for them, eh?

[yardwork]

25. To be fair, any protests about Sudan would probably be as useless as the ones about Gaza.

Blocking highways in LA, painting cute watermelons, and hurling paint around NYC are fairly ineffective as humanitarian relief mechanisms.

[Sympthsical]

56. Agreed

I was thinking about this earlier. You know how some cultures have/had professional mourners? People who are paid or who take on the role of mourning, because the more mourners a person had, the greater that person's importance.

The West has increasingly developed a niche of professional hand-wringers, and social media have made them more prominent. They just mill around saying, "Isn't that awful, isn't that too bad." They don't do anything - doing something about a problem, are you mad? They just chill out and perform. And the more that do, the more important the issue.

Gaza has a lot of hand-wringers, so it's very important. Sudan has none, so it's barely worth mentioning.

But they will put in the exact same amount of effort into affecting change in the situations - none.

It's the performance as cultural marker.

I sometimes suspect I may be a cynical type.

[The Magistrate]

69. Damn, Skippy

[dalton99a]

66. +1

[Chainfire]

14. Whether or not a person morns the people of Sudan has nothing whatsoever to do with what is happening in Gaza.

Nor does what is happening in Sudan justify what is happening in Gaza, any more than What happened to the Jews in the past century justifies what they are now doing to others today. Israel has the right and the duty to defend their borders, they have neither to wage the kind of pogrom they are waging today.


Leave the whataboutism in Whataboutland.

[CincyDem]

22. True. Everyone has the absolute right to choose who they mourn and that choice says a lot about who they are.

And nothing I said was intended to say protest both or neither. To me, it simply raises a question that lets us learn about the underlying intention in the choices.

Honestly, I don’t give a flying f’ck if people do or do not protest Sudan oppression. Observing that valid choice helps me learn about what’s important to them.

As to your thoughts on whataboutism…call it what ever you want. In my experience, I see the charge most often leveled to avoid engaging with the underlying question.

[Beastly Boy]

33. It has everything to do with the person who mourns, or doesn't, depending on the person's biases.

[TheKentuckian]

62. This is just stretching and perverting the idea of whataboutism

into an all purpose deflector shield against all reason and context.

Like Hamas, Hezbollah, and the PLO before them Birkenstock Charlottesville will spend every last drop of Palestinian blood for the fucked up "cause".

The sanctimonious and duplicitous "love" of all people and all that crap is good old mularkey.

If some Arab nation(s) never gave them independence or even wiped them out to the last child, it wouldn't rise above "Shame that" and maybe a VH1 retrospective "What ever happened to the Palestinians?".

[Dorian Gray]

71. YES!

[haele]

3. Ignore the effects of corrupt colonialism in Africa at the world's peril.

Between the climate and religious refugees Africa is producing because developed countries do not take poor countries seriously or treat them with paternalistic contempt, this is an economic catastrophe in the making.

This is becoming a "Lifeboat scenario" and it's exposing a lot of morally clay feet.
How many poor families are Wealthy parents willing to sacrifice so they can continue to live in comfort? Seems like a a few million here or there is no problem to many.

There have been warnings from the moderate left side of economists that Africa needed some careful, considered social as well as economic investment back in the 90's, and to not leave that investment to corporations and rich cults, or we will end up with petty kleptocrats cynically buying and selling the poor who are trying to raise themselves out of colonial semi-slavery, as we see now.
Back in the 2000, there were warnings that if we didn't deal with climate change, there would be mass migrations from equatorial countries as people who could no longer grow crops or live in those areas, and we as a global civilization are just not prepared for all the "forgotten people" or excess population needing to be relocated.
It's expensive to move, and someone always has to pay for it. Either morally or financially.

Can you call yourself a good country or person or organization if you just turn your back on people desperately needing help you can provide to survive? Or is there just a particular category of people who deserve consideration or aid, and the rest are just excess or disposable because, well, they aren't real people, just jumped up animals?

On edit - some of us have been concerned about the exploitations of former colonial Africa, South America, and South Central/South East Asia for a long time. You don't think ghosts of colonialism and colonialist attitudes don't have anything to do with the sudden outbreak of conflict around the Middle East and Central/Eastern Africa?
There's been a lot of anti Western/anti Democratic money and influence involvement pushing conflict going on in these areas over the past couple decades.

Haele

[Arazi]

7. The larger picture implicates Putin

And other anti-democratic bad actors in facilitating these conflicts to create division, and specifically in the US to divide Dems.

I’m a firm believer that Hamas was triggered by Iran/Putin to damage Joe Biden. They’ve been training to do this since he was installed.

Megalomaniacs across the world including MBS in Saudi Arabia are eager to reinstall Trump.

Good post. Thanks for chiming in

[sarisataka]

4. There was a post a few weeks back

About Pakistan forcibly deporting about 2M Afghan refugees back to the Taliban.

Both sides are Muslim. It sank like a stone.

[Arazi]

6. Yup

[LeftInTX]

16. That was so sad

[hunter]

19. Anything that isn't constantly hyped by the television news sinks like a stone.

Before twitter came along I thought television was the worst media for news.

I've banned both television news and the cesspool formerly known as twitter from my personal universe.

[Happy Hoosier]

12. Well... (((they))) aren't there to villify. NT

[BannonsLiver]

15. Sudan isn't trendy enough for those who have been protesting

[LeftInTX]

18. Sadly, I don't know the dynamics of Sudan or who is who

It's sad that I don't know.
The world is pretty blind when it comes to Africa.

Another poster just mentioned how a Pakistan/Afghan post got no traction.
At least, I know and am familiar with what is going on over there.

But you are right.
If we're gonna be "trendy", maybe we should get a little more educated about all parts of the world

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Remind me which side the US, or other western governments, are on

and thus whom protests would be aimed at.

[Arazi]

32. In Yemen, for example, KSA is butchering Muslim women and children

With US provided weapons.

How about some protests against that slaughter (which surpasses Gaza by several million folks)

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. You make a good point, which would be better still in a thread about Yemen

I take it from that that no western government has started to support either side in the Sudanese civil war, especially the RSF, who are accused of genocide.

FWIW, the civilian death rate in Yemen is about 500 per year at the moment: https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2023-11-15/2133 and the total deaths have been perhaps 400,000 in 8 years, or about 4,000 a month, averaged: https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/war-yemen

[mathematic]

35. Thanks for pointing out that anti-West objectives are at the center of anti-Israel protests and policies

Often you have people trying to have it both ways. Anti-Israel because of principles but then it's hypocrisy to so selectively apply those principles so when challenged on their principles it becomes the pragmatic "I can only affect what my country does".

It turns out the principle is to destroy or diminish Western Liberal Democracy and the tactic is to oppose key allies. Throw into the mix the popularity of antisemitism and arab supremacy around the world and it's pretty easy to see why the world is protesting the actions of Israel and can barely acknowledge Sudan.

I mean, what principle underlies the DSA's characterization of the Palestinian terror attack of Oct 7th as legitimate resistance as well as putting the ultimate responsibility of Russia's invasion of Ukraine on NATO's "imperialistic expansion" (quite a description for a voluntary mutual defense organization)?

[muriel_volestrangler]

36. That is, frankly, self-centered

You assume that someone is out to hurt you, personally, rather than protesting about the bombing enabled by US and other western arming of Israel. Sometimes, people really do care about civilians dying, rather than having a nefarious aim of criticising you personally. Credit other people with a sense of proportion, even if you don't share it.

[mathematic]

40. Oh, back to leaning on principle again I see.

Anti-Israel protests began immediately after the terrorist attacks before any Israeli response. The only civilians that had died were victims of Palestinian terrorism.

And "criticizing you personally"? I guess I missed the memo where I was Western Liberal Democracy. You are literally lobbing personal attacks against me right now.

[Mosby]

21. Is this going to radicalize Muslim youth across the globe?

Or does that only happen when Jews are involved?

[Coventina]

42. Jews? Most definitely. Christians? Depends on if there's money involved. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

70. It is easy to be radicalized when suicide bombers

are the heroes of the morning cartoons and devilish Jews the root of all evil.

The Death to Israel is also the Death to America crew so basically interchangeable with a little less burned in ire/blame the Jews.

Everything else is slightly less reflexive but a head of steam is seemingly easily built up.

I'm not intimidated by their radicalization. Motherfuck em.

Threats, violence, whining and lying about the well earned response, demands, propaganda, escalate, and repeat.

[mcar]

23. Where are the protests?

Where are the freeway disruptions?

[yardwork]

24. These women and children in Sudan don't have Putin's global PR campaign.

[Arazi]

26. Bingo 🎯

I wish more people understood that they’re being useful idiots for Putin’s anti-democracy campaign to split Dems and usher in another Trump administration.

This global PR campaign aimed only at Israel is an op being spun by bad actors.

One of my points in trying to bring up other actual genocides happening right now is to try to wake people up to the deliberateness of this op

[yardwork]

37. It is crystal clear to many of us.

For many of us, it's been obvious since October 8 that there is a global propaganda campaign designed to divide Democrats and defeat Biden, so that Trump can regain the White House. One immediate advantage to Putin will be an immediate loss of U.S. support for Ukraine.

This propaganda is so similar to what we saw in 2016, it seems so obvious - and yet many Americans are falling for it again, blaming Biden, threatening not to vote for Biden.

The scaffolding of this propaganda campaign is built on implicit antisemitic biases, and so far it seems to be working. Very disappointing. It's entirely possible to disagree with Israel's policies and actions without undermining Biden or saying antisemitic things.

[NorseSaxonCelt]

72. To divide all of the West

Put people against the leaders, calling them child killers if they defend Israel or have a Jewish spouse..And thousands of Muslim men praying outside government buildings, while they also convert Gen Z protestors.
It is also another conflict that is putting up fuel prices in Europe...People are getting letters now about £200+ extra we have to find in January to keep the lights on.
This conflict is increasingly the likelihood of far right people being elected because we seem to be overwhelmed be immigration, and people who intend to change the west, into antisemitism and accepting Sharia Law...Gerrt Wilders elected in liberal, tolerant, Netherlands...anti EU...Putin is all over this.

[yardwork]

73. Welcome to DU.

[patphil]

28. This is true. I haven't seen anything on the news about it.

For that matter, Ukraine isn't covered very much anymore either.
It's all wall-to-wall Hamas and Israel.
The news we hear is managed to suit those who control it.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

27. The same can be said about the REACTION to October 7th.

If we are playing the whataboutism game, why was the reaction to October 7th so disproportionate to the previous ongoing slaughter in Sudan?

Lots of people couldn’t be bothered to fly the Sudanese flag when 10s of thousands have been slaughtered. Maybe it’s racism.

[patphil]

30. I do believe it is racism.

[yardwork]

38. I don't think American horror at the October 7 attacks were motivated by racism.

People in my town have family among the hostages. I personally know and work with people based in Israel. The suggestion that our horror at these attacks is motivated by racism is incorrect.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

48. The question was why people, who are suddenly animated about Sudan, were not flying the Sudanese flag.

Surely the sudan tragedy isn’t merely being used as a cudgel to claim antisemitism.

[yardwork]

52. I've tried to stay out of the tit for tat.

Bottom line: all war is terrible, all human lives are precious. I disagree with Netanyahu's approach and I've said so, without needing to use antisemitic tropes. I'm sure you've done the same, as have the vast majority of DUers.

Where I get really worried is the effort to blame Biden. There's a well-coordinated PR campaign ginning up emotional responses to the horrors in Gaza that links back to not supporting Biden in 2024. The propaganda is aimed at getting Trump back in the White House.

Reminding people that there are a lot of bad things going on in the world might wake some people up to the fact that they're being played by Putin.

That's all, from my point of view.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

60. I've pretty much stayed out too but Part of that effort is accusing the left of antisemitism.

And people are posting crazed right winger tweets and siding with that nutball stefanik going after liberal academics.

It’s like upside down world here lately.

[patphil]

54. I guess I didn't make it clear in my post. I was referring to the part about Sudan.

"Lots of people couldn’t be bothered to fly the Sudanese flag when 10s of thousands have been slaughtered. Maybe it’s racism."

That the racism part.

[yardwork]

57. Thanks for that clarification.

I don't necessarily agree that it's racism that keeps people from protesting or demonstrating visible support for the many people around the world who are under attack or being oppressed. There are just so many.

I don't know how to help everybody who needs help. I vote Democratic and give to relief organizations. I do have a Ukrainian flag as my DU avatar because I believe the U.S. must support Ukraine against Russian invasion.

[David__77]

39. Exactly.

[Coventina]

43. You left out the part where Hamas called for violence against Jews worldwide.

And people followed their orders.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

47. Was this your first time hearing of Hamas (or the PLO)?

They’ve been doing this shit since before I was born.

Can you link me to your posts about the Sudan horrors? Or is that tragedy just a cudgel?

[Coventina]

49. I'm afraid I am not getting your point.

In case mine wasn't clear, I think the Oct. 7th attacks received so much attention is because it was meant to incite violence against Jews worldwide (which Hamas succeeded beyond their wildest dreams, I'll bet).

The conflict in Sudan has not benefited from that kind of global reach.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

50. Which proves how stupid these "durrr you didn't protest Sudan" threads are.

[Coventina]

55. Yes and no.

I think a lot of the anti-Israel sentiment is fueled by "all the cool kids are doing it."

It's anti-Semitic and ugly, but they aren't the folks who are likely to do any type of physical violence.

I think threads like this are meant to point out that if that crowd had been exposed to what is going on in the Sudan, they would have been upset about that as well. Meaning, there really is no thought or true feeling behind it, they are just following the crowd of outrage blindly.

But in the meantime, there are real Jewish people who are being harmed, and it's OK because they deserve it, because Palestine.....

[Celerity]

58. thank you for your efforts in this thread

[Beastly Boy]

51. False equivalency

What you are probably referring to is the actual attack, taken in isolation, which caused an international incident and resulted in deaths of thousands of civilians. If you want to focus on this attack alone, you will have to compare it to identical incidents, not Sudan. When you take the 2008 terrorist attack in Mumbai, for example, it was followed by a stronger and longer lasting reaction than the far more devastating Hamas attack which still evades universal and unconditional condemnation from certain NGOs, activist groups and media outlets around the world.

The reaction to the shocking rise in global antisemitism is a different story. There was a poster here who reminded us of the links between the world's silence on the Sudan civil wars and the colonialism that normalized (and institutionalized) global racism. Apples to apples, the world's reaction to racism far exceeds, expectedly so, its reaction to antisemitism, which is largely left for the various Jewish groups and institutions to condemn.

The OP's point IS the disproportionate reaction to October 7. He is not diverting from it, as whataboutism may imply, he is comparing one instance to another. What the OP is commenting on is the hypocrisy of silence in response to the events in Sudan when compared to the disproportionately voluminous displays of performative outrage coming from the self-proclaimed human rights activists and purveyors of all-embracing compassion in response to the Gaza war.

[ismnotwasm]

29. This is why I can't stand performative activism

I think with social media, and humankind’s tendencies toward tribalism, it’s easy to feel as though complex situations have a correct side, to the point we no longer hear anything else. Then we scapegoat and blame. Then we logical fallacy ourselves out of coherency.

Then I think, we all have to make our stand somewhere. If the plight of the Palestinian people is all some people can think or care about, I get it…. I guess. With that level of shallowness comes the performance though. And when it fades from media—and it will—I will await the next performance…I guess.


I mean, I do it too, I abhor violence, I abhor war as a solution for anything, and I place the blame squarely on the patriarchy and the patriartical standards of being which infest cultures all over the world, now and historically. Like, full stop I believe this.

[Coventina]

44. Abrahamic faiths for the win!!

[Kennah]

63. And he didn't complete his second term as President

[misanthrope]

53. I put the blame for war on the species

Not just one gender.

[revmclaren]

41. Kicking to keep this important post trending

[JustAnotherGen]

61. This is one of the best

OP's I've read at DU for awhile.

I hope it gives people food for thought.

And I agree with the posters who have pointed out the performative nature of protest.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

65. Comments from Malcom Nance

Link to tweet

[Arazi]

67. Exactly

[betsuni]

68. K&R