Judge issues order keeping Confederate memorial at Arlington Cemetery for now

[FelineOverlord]

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/judge-issues-order-keeping-confederate-memorial-at-arlington-cemetery-for-now/3496987/

Republicans were FURIOUS at it being removed.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Fullduplexxx]

1. "Magats dont like it " is now the standard for getting your grievance a court date?

[Model35mech]

2. Question for historians... Was the Confederacy illegal, or was it simply not recognized

by the US federal government? No foreign government recognized the Confederacy although France and England recognized its status as a belligerent fighting to assume independence.

When war dead soldiers gave been considered it's not typical for them to be considered criminal, even if the government they served was after the fact identified with war crimes. Criminal associations of soldiers certainly have occurred and been tried, but those things are typically more limited to service in units found guilty of having conducted specific criminal behaviors. Certainly SS troops who marched Italians into barns and burned them alive were criminal. Certainly Germans who shot Jews standing on the brim of mass graves were criminal. Certainly German soldiers who pushed Jews into gas-chambers were criminal.

But are Japanese pilots who attacked Pearl Harbor criminals? Are the crew members of the Anola Gay criminals? And I don't mean that in a popular opinion or betrayal of ethics sort of way... I mean in a criminally responsible way?

[Happy Hoosier]

10. The Confederacy was an armed insurrection.

The Confederate States was not a legitimate government. Soldiers for the Confederacy were committing treason.

[Model35mech]

13. Yes, can people be criminals if they were never tried? If you aren't a US citizen can you be tried

for treason against the US? The case that CSA soldiers are criminals depends on the answers to these things.

U.S. Grant awarded immunity to Robert E Lee and his army, at the time of their surrender. Consequently, Robert E Lee although indicted for treason was never convicted as a trial didn't conclude the issue.

Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederate States was also not tried because Supreme Court Chief Justice Chase, acting in the role of circuit judge in his Davis' case ruled that Davis was not a citizen of the US when he committed his accused treason to the US. And so, because he wasn't a US citizen at that time he could not be tried for treason against the US.

The immunity to prosecution that was given by Grant was generally extended to the vast majority of soldiers in the CSA.

So is this just some bumbling technicality, or does it represent a more general sentiment that even to this day soldiers in service to their country are not criminals for engaging in ware unless they are charged and convicted of specific crimes?

[Happy Hoosier]

15. Texas v. White 1869....

established that Secession is Unconstitutional. The Confederacy was illegal. Those participating in the Rebellion were committing sedition and armed insurrection. Not technically "treason", though colloquially it is referred to that way.

Just like Jan 6 insurrectionists, they were taking up arms against the lawful government.

As to "they were never tried...." if one robs a bank, but is never tried for it, one is STILL a bank robber. The fact that the Government didn't pursue punishment for all the seditionists was an act of mercy and reconciliation, not absolution. The fact that these people claimed status as Confederate Veterans was an admission of guilt. They acknowledge that they participated in an illegal, armed rebellion.

[ITAL]

14. It was actually an open question

Whether secession was illegal or not, it had been threatened several times before the South actually did it (and the first states that I know of that seriously threatened to secede were Northern states during the War of 1812). The Supreme Court later ruled that it was illegal in 1869.

President Johnson gave a general amnesty to all Confederate soldiers in 1868.

[JustAnotherGen]

3. I hope Federal Tax dollars

Are not provided for its maintenance and upkeep.

The Daughters of the Foreign Country Enemy put it up - they can pay for it.

[Fiendish Thingy]

4. How does a court have jurisdiction over the Executive Branch's administration of a park/cemetery? Nt

[B.See]

5. Trump and the reich winged Federalist Society radicalized the judiciary explicitly FOR that purpose.....

To rewrite and jerry-rig "rule of law" to only go according to THEIR rules and THEIR laws.

[Fiendish Thingy]

7. Seems to me Biden could order Austin to melt the statue

And send a message to the judge saying “You and what army are going to enforce that ruling?”

Let the Republicans impeach him for that.

[Igel]

9. Because the Executive only has authority as granted in the Constitution.

I don't see "park administration" among what's listed.

Everything else is law as established per our democracy by Congress.

Then again, perhaps this blip from the Great Wiki might provide some hint:

In 1901, Confederate soldiers buried at the Soldiers' Home and various locations within Arlington were reinterred in a Confederate section that was authorized by Congress in 1900. On June 4, 1914, the United Daughters of the Confederacy dedicated the Confederate Memorial designed by Moses Ezekiel. Upon his death in 1917, Ezekiel was buried at the base of the monument as he was a veteran of the Confederate army.[92] All Confederate headstones in this section are peaked rather than rounded.[93] The Naming Commission, appointed by Congress, has recommended removing the Confederate memorial down to its foundation.[94]

After all, the land purchase for Arlington was authorized by Congress.

BTW, the core of the cemetery was Robert E. Lee's estate.

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. National Parks are under the authority of the Dept. Of the Interior

Which is part of the executive branch. The army, also part of the executive branch, maintains the grounds.

It seems like a clear issue of separation of powers.

Who would have standing to claim their constitutional rights were violated by the removal of the statue?

[UTUSN]

6. Anybody not anticipate some judge doing this? What's his rationale?

[BlueIdaho]

8. A Confederate statue in a cemetery

Filled with American war heroes and patriots? Fuck no - pull it down.

[struggle4progress]

12. ... Workers had began to remove the memorial on Monday before

U.S. District Judge Rossie Alston Jr. issued his order, saying that the plaintiff's lawyer represented to the court that the project involved the disturbance of gravesites.

A group called Defend Arlington ... filed suit Sunday in federal court ... Alston set a hearing for Wednesday ...

In 2021, Congress passed a law requiring the Department of Defense to look at removing "names, symbols, displays, monuments, or paraphernalia" commemorating the Confederacy ...

Arlington National Cemetery had said that bronze pieces of the memorial would be removed, and its granite base would be left in place "to avoid disturbing surrounding graves" ...

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/18/1219896375/confederate-memorial-arlington-national-cemetery-dismantled

[kwolf68]

16. I love the "Statue Wars"

I have hick friends in Virginia up in arms about these statues. I am like I just don't give a shite either way and if the people or Richmond, Va. want that crap pulled down so be it. If these dumb statues celebrating your failed attempt to overthrow government are so important, put them in a private museum not funded by the taxpayers. I mean we are for limited government here right? Oh thats right, unless is supports the rich, wages war, puts people in prison or maintains confederate war monuments, than government is good.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

17. They want their participation trophy