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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRussia's economy is going strong despite sanctions from the U.S. and its allies.
This, in part explains why Russia has been surging in Ukraine... with even AFU sources now saying they have wide advantage in drones, ammo and troop numbers.
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/17/1219882734/russias-economy-is-going-strong-despite-sanctions-from-the-u-s-and-its-allies
Russia has been hit with huge economic sanctions since it invaded Ukraine nearly two years ago. But the Russian economy has remained strong, defying many economists' expectations. We wanted to understand why that's happened, so we called Alexandra Prokopenko, a fellow at Carnegie Eurasia Center. She used to live in Moscow and advised the Russian central bank, but left the country after the invasion because of moral objections to the war. We started by asking her what she was hearing from friends and family back home about how life has changed.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/russias-q3-gdp-growth-confirmed-55-rosstat-2023-12-13/#:~:text=Russia's%20economy%20is%20on%20course,grew%204.9%25%20in%20the%20second.
Russia's Q3 GDP growth confirmed at 5.5% - Rosstat
MOSCOW, Dec 13 (Reuters) - Russia's gross domestic product (GDP) growth in the third quarter was confirmed on Wednesday at 5.5% compared with the same period last year, when it shrunk 3.5%, the state statistics service Rosstat said.
Russia's economy is on course to recover this year from a 2.1% drop in GDP in 2022, as the West imposed sweeping sanctions against Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.
In January-September, GDP grew 3% Rosstat said. In the first quarter of this year, GDP decreased 1.8% and grew 4.9% in the second.
Bristlecone
(11,111 posts)WarGamer
(18,613 posts)It's the war footing and pumping and printing rubles into the economy...
The numbers are real... but I'd call them "juiced" if not quite "fake"...
That being said... there will be an economic hangover.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)Who knows. I'm far from an expert, but I don't trust anything Russia reports, any more than I trust data reported by Florida.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)No one can mess with an economy very well when they have the backing of the #1 and #2 most populous countries.
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)Long ago, I warned that the worst aftermath of the Ukraine War won't be what happened on the ground in Ukraine...
The invasion by Putin and the Western reaction has done more to bifurcate the planet politically... than any other event in the last 75+ years.
Russia was moving closer to the EU, Iran was settling down, the Israelis and Saudi Arabia were shaking hands and Turkey was solidly a member of NATO.
Now you have a more rigid axis of non-US nations picking sides and aligning against the West... this has set back Global relations decades.
yardwork
(69,364 posts)Can't have the world getting along. There's no black market money in that. Who would buy all the weapons.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)roamer65
(37,953 posts)Remember all 3 are SCO members.
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)Deuxcents
(26,915 posts)And the next, theyre doing just fine. Im getting whiplash
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)Always go for bias-free sources.
Deuxcents
(26,915 posts)Chainfire
(17,757 posts)Liberal In Texas
(16,270 posts)in Russia and paying millions in taxes to them.
BannonsLiver
(20,595 posts)JanMichael
(25,725 posts)That's said unless the west bucks up they could very well win because war economies, while not sustainable, can certainly win wars.
Ukraine cannot win a war of attrition against a country that has three or four times more people without massive amounts of ammunition like artillery shells equipment and technology from NATO countries. US and German companies also need to set up factories in Ukraine to produce this ordinance. If we do not get into a bit of a war kind of mindset Ukraine will eventually be overrun. That doesn't mean asymmetrical warfare wouldn't continue because they'll never give up.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)"And behind is Vladimir Putin impossible trilemma for 2024, because he will need to fund the ongoing war against Ukraine, maintain the facade of business as usual for population and safeguarding the macroeconomic stability, which is quite complicated because Russia abandoned lots of institutions like budgetary rule or predictable tax system. So the situation looks solid, but it's very fragile."
And that this is a war economy.
"This growth is not what we called, you know, improving people's well-being. It's more about the state spending on war."
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/17/1219882734/russias-economy-is-going-strong-despite-sanctions-from-the-u-s-and-its-allies
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)... Of course any GDP can go bonkers injected with 100% additional military spending due to war time stimulus. War time money is not usually counted because it's not sustainable.
And now CaPutin is doing very similar to Hitler and not calling on war time economy so he doesn't shake alive a partisan political Russian population even though he's injecting war time money.
It's either or,.... More male troops for the front lines or more males troops to the factories ... Without a general mobilization he's screwed in two years
Emrys
(9,100 posts)Ukraines current stalemate with Russia has frustrated many people, including the formers military chief. A largely stymied counteroffensive this year gained little ground, especially as Ukraine still lacks certain technology that could help with meaningful breakthroughs. But one important aspect of the struggle against Russia has been surprisingly absent from the recent debate on how Ukraine can win.
Ukraines current stalemate with Russia has frustrated many people, including the formers military chief. A largely stymied counteroffensive this year gained little ground, especially as Ukraine still lacks certain technology that could help with meaningful breakthroughs. But one important aspect of the struggle against Russia has been surprisingly absent from the recent debate on how Ukraine can win.
Im talking about the Russian economyand the people who hold it together, like Elvira Nabiullina, the head of the Central Bank of Russia. Its tempting to say that Nabiullina is often overlooked because she is a woman, but then again, talented Nazi economist Hjalmar Schacht is not exactly the star of many documentaries, either. Economists may keep the wheels of a war machine greased, but because theyre not the people in snappy uniforms, its easier to disregard them.
As an economist, Nabiullina has a long track record of saving Russia from sanctions following Russias initial attack on Ukraine in 2014. Her decisions, which included inflation targeting, and, more specifically, floating the exchange rate, earned her fawning interviews with the International Monetary Fund even as her bosses continued to kill Ukrainians prior to the mass-scale 2022 invasion. She was furthermore praised as an effective communicator of Russian economic policythus helping prevent panic.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/12/11/russia-central-bank-chief-ukraine-war-ruble-value/
The whole article's worth reading for some insights into Nabiullina's skilful economic sleights of hand that have kept Russia's finances looking superficially and artificially cheery (if you don't have a subscription, you can see the whole thing by using your browser's Reader View or any equivalent it may have, but maybe slip them some bucks if you can afford it).
More long-term background to Russia's economic ills has been covered by Harvard's Davis Center, from which I'll quote just a few paragraphs:
...
Putins attempts to build up macroeconomic Fortress Russia, as noted before, predated the war, but they werent necessarily made in preparation for war, Guriev pointed out. Instead, they fit into the Russian leaders idea that his country must be strategically independent, without needing to call [the] IMF and ask for permission to do something. Hence, Putins policymakers prioritized a textbook version of macroeconomic stability: low debt, high currency reserves, a large sovereign wealth fund. In part for this reason, the impact of the 2014-2021 sanctions on Russian GDP was not zero, but it was very, very small, Guriev said.
The punitive measures initiated in 2022 were a completely different set of tools, leaving Russia with more sanctions imposed on its economy than all other countries in the world combined, according to Guriev. Yet, despite unprecedented moves like the freezing of $300 billion in Russian central bank assets, Russian coffers continued to fill up. This was due largely to high oil prices and continuing energy sales to Europe, which did not introduce oil sanctions until December of last year. Thus, 10 months after its all-out attack on Ukraine, Moscow closed out 2022 with a $230 billion trade surplus.
This is not to say that oil sanctions, once Europes came into effect, had no impact on Putins ability to finance Russias war against Ukraine. They affected the ruble, inflation, and, in particular, the Russian budget for the first half of 2023, when oil and gas revenues came down by half year on year. Circumventing the sanctions is also costly, requiring layers of intermediaries and additional expenses, like Russias reported fleet of environmentally dangerous shadow tankers.
Today, however, Russia is not running a budget deficit and Guriev believes Putin will be able to keep funding his military machine if oil sanctions arent tightened. Guriev noted that in the third quarter of 2023 Russia started selling oil at prices above a Western-imposed cap and the countrys planned 2024 budget is really scary, boosting military spending to its post-Soviet high an estimated 6% of GDP, which Guriev contrasted with NATOs benchmark of 2% for its own members. Russia, with its combination of petrodollars and forex reserves (including yuan), will be able to ramp up its own production of weapons and munitions, while buying what it cant make from suppliers like Iran and North Korea and continuing to pay for intermediaries that help it evade sanctions.
In the long run, Guriev says, Putin's economy is not great, plagued by capital outflow and lack of access to modern technologies, but Russias revitalized repressive apparatus can easily tamp down discontent for now. Rosy GDP figures are misleading during wartime, Guriev pointed out, because they reflect ramped-up military production, which doesnt contribute either to quality of life or to future economic growth; some indicators, in fact, suggest a grimmer economic picture for ordinary Russians for example, a 10% drop in consumer spending in 2022. But, ultimately, diminished quality of life becomes less of a political liability when the regime openly punishes its critics with years-long prison terms.
https://daviscenter.fas.harvard.edu/insights/russias-economy-war-ukraine-and-hopes-post-putin-liberalization
DFW
(60,186 posts)A good friend of ours was stationed in Moscow for five years. Pre-covid and Ukraine invasion, he used to travel back there frequently to visit his girlfriend in Moscow. Both of them agreed long ago that since he spoke Russian, and she spoke not a word of German, that her moving to Germany would just be torture on her. They met over 25 years ago, but now, in her mid 70s, it's not even a point of discussion any more.
They talk once a week, and she used to visit us here in Germany when she came to see him, since he lives only half an hour away by train. My wife knows no Russian, but our friend and I do, so there was no lack of translation service.
According to what she says on the phone, and she is cautious as ever, a "talent" learned from the socialist era, things are in an awful state. She is holding down three jobs (at age 76!) to be able to eat. Her son from a previous marriage got out and has a job in Beograd, in Serbia. Apparently, Serbia has "sort of" joined the sanctions, but not entirely, and the Beograd airport is sort of a lifeline for those Russians that have gotten out, but whose families have not. There are no bank connections any more between Germany and Russia on the retail level, so our friend, who is living off a meager pension (he is 78) can't even send her a hundred or two Euros a month to help her out.
If that is an economy "going strong," then the strength is going straight from the sales of natural resources (oil, gold, diamonds and deforestation, e.g.) into military expenditures, and, as always, into the pockets of Putin and his pals. Ordinary Russians are seeing just about none of it--как всегда (as always).
WarGamer
(18,613 posts)And like I said above:
The numbers are "juiced" at best, if not quite "fake".