For those keeping score, Hamas has now:

[lapucelle]

Link to tweet

[WarGamer]

1. According to Israeli sources? Or reliable sources?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

2. You mean like the terrorists the "pro-Palestinians" breathlessly quote?

[Groundhawg]

3. Are you saying Israeli sources aren't reliable?

[sheshe2]

5. There is quite a big of info at the twitter link.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-public-message-since-oct-7-sinwar-says-hamas-wont-surrender/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

In first public message since Oct. 7, Sinwar says Hamas won’t surrender
Terror chief inflates group’s achievements, falsely claims it is ‘crushing’ the IDF, as top leadership in Qatar evaluates Egyptian proposal to end hostilities
Hamas/AFP)

Hamas is facing a “fierce, violent and unprecedented battle” against Israel, Sinwar acknowledged in a message to Hamas’s political leadership. But he also claimed that the terror group was on its way to crushing the Israel Defense Forces, and, referring to Israel, said Hamas will not submit to “the occupation’s conditions.”

Sinwar falsely claimed that the al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas, had “targeted” over 5,000 Israeli soldiers and officers, and killed about third of them — that is, over 1,500.

The actual figure of IDF deaths is one-tenth of what the terror leader alleged. According to the IDF, 156 soldiers have so far been killed in the ground operation in Gaza. Over 300 members of the security forces were killed in Hamas’s initial October 7 onslaught.

The terror leader also gave inflated claims of the number of Israeli soldiers injured in the war, and the amount of Israeli military equipment that has been destroyed. He claimed that around 3,500 troops were seriously wounded or disabled, whereas that figure according to the IDF stands at less than 200.

[lapucelle]

6. Spoiler alert: Democracy Now!, Al Jazeera, and Turkish state media are NOT the sources.

Reuters, NBC News, France's i24, The Wall Street Journal, and Foreign Policy Magazine are.

Hamas, Islamic Jihad reject giving up power in return for permanent ceasefire, Egyptian sources say

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-islamic-jihad-reject-giving-up-power-return-permanent-ceasefire-egyptian-2023-12-25/

---------------------------------------------------

Hamas announced that it refuses to hold talks about releasing hostages without a more permanent cease-fire — something Israel and the U.S. have said would be a surrender to Hamas. NBC News’ Molly Hunter reports.

-------------------------------------------------

Hamas Refuses Israeli Cease-Fire, Hostage Swap Deal.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/12/21/hamas-cease-fire-hostages-israel-un-security-council-prague-mass-shooting-university/

-------------------------------------------------

Hamas Rejection Sours Israeli Bid to Revive Hostage Talks

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-offers-one-week-cease-fire-in-exchange-for-more-hostages-336ae59a

--------------------------------------------------

Hamas policeman fatally shoots young Gazan seeking aid in Rafah, unrest and riots follow

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1703449981-hamas-policeman-fatally-shoots-young-gazan-seeking-aid-in-rafah-unrest-and-riots-follow

[WarGamer]

7. good answer... thanks!

In conflicts, I don't trust ANY parties in the wars...

I don't trust Hamas, Israel, Ukraine or Russia to report accurate war news.

[Cha]

21. REC.. Thank You!!

[madaboutharry]

4. Even Sinwar saying this himself on video is not enough

for some people to believe he actually said it.

[Cha]

20. Right.. "HAMAS wouldn't be

that mean and Uncaring for the Palestinians".. Balderdash!

[TheKentuckian]

72. Yet not some folks claim not to be pro Hamas

Sure, they only trust Hamas except when Hamas won't align with their bullshit narratives and demand only actions which strengthen the hand of Hamas while steadfastly refusing to place any responsibility or accountability with the state based terrorists they pretend to oppose, typically with a weak disclaimer mentioning said lack of support while fluffing the savage fucks.

[Iggo]

8. Cool. War crimes justified.

I feel better already.

[Beastly Boy]

9. Great. Two fictions in a single thee-word sentence.

Way to go!

[Cha]

19. Touche' Rec TY

[SoFlaBro]

25. Hamas's best business is dead Palestinian babies and business is BOOMING!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. I'm no military expert but I feel like there are better responses to this than massacring civilians tho

[Deep State Witch]

11. This is what Hamas Wants

They WANT the Israelis to kill Palestinian civilians, so that they can use their deaths in a propaganda war.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. Yeah I know people keep saying that. Is Israel a tool of Hamas, such that it does what Hamas wants?

[Nanjeanne]

13. If that's true, why is Israel doing what Hamas wants? Surely they shouldn't, right?

[Beastly Boy]

14. A version of "Homicide by cop"

"I will keep killing your civilians unless you start killing my civilians". And, BTW, "I don't give a shit about my civilians, and I know you give a shit about yours. I dare ya. And I pledge to keep daring you until you start shooting."

A crudely sadistic tactic, but effective nevertheless.

[Nanjeanne]

15. I see. So Israel is destroying Hamas by giving them exactly what Hamas wants.

[Beastly Boy]

17. If this was you and Hamas, and if this was your choice to make,

wouldn't you give them what they want to save your family?

Be honest.

[Nanjeanne]

34. I have family in Israel. I have friends murdered by Hamas. I would stop bombing and make a deal.

To say that murdering Palestines is giving Hamas what they want and that’s why Israel is doing it - is bizarre at best.

The only thing that will give anyone safety and peace is an end to oppression and a political solution.

But it’s much easier to sit in a chair and disregard the thought that thousands of people,are dead. Thousands of children are orphaned. Thousands are maimed. Thousands are starving. Thousands are dying of disease. Thousands living in tents with no water. Sit in a chair and cheer for this like a football game. Don’t question what I would do. I’m involved every day through friends and family living in Israel. People who know murdered families. People who know and work in organizations side by side with Palestinians - doing what they do every day to work for peace.

[Beastly Boy]

35. Well, when you tell me not to question you, you are probably being honest.

You don't have an honest answer to my question, do you?

The fact remains: Hamas wants Israel to murder as many Gazans as possible. Their leaders literally said thet for all to hear. So I am not questioning you on that. Another fact is that they are facilitating the murders of tens of thousands of civilians. They are facilitating the thousands of children being orphaned. They are facilitating the thousands being maimed. They are facilitating the thousands being starved. They are facilitating the thousands dying of disease. They are facilitating the thousands living in tents with no water.

Since this is also a fact, I am not questioning you on this either. Nor am I questioning you on your family in Israel, or friends killed by Hamas, nor am I questioning the people who work side by side with the Palestinians who want peace.

I am questioning you about the people who work side by side with Hamas and who want war. The people who use the Palestinians wanting peace as their tool to wage war. The people who don't want to make deals. The people who don't want peace or a political solution.

So, since you know they will not accept your peace or your deals, would you give Hamas what they want, or... what is the alternative, exactly? Since they are fundamentally opposed to the existence of your relatives in Israel, are you going to put their existence on the negotiating table? And what do you expect to get in return?

As bizarre as the question might seem to you, it still begs for your answer, no matter how much you want to avoid it.

[Nanjeanne]

39. If I understood your question I believe I answered it. I would have a ceasefire and work out

a deal for release of hostages. I’m not avoiding your question - but perhaps I can’t seem to grasp it. I’m pretty transparent.

The person I responded to said that Israel’s murder of civilians was what Hamas wanted and I replied why would Israel WANT to give Hamas such great pr. It was a real question because as I told you, prior to this war Hamas had much less majority support in Gaza. But the killing of thousands has given them more support. I fail to understand how that is a winning strategy.

You seem to think more than 21,000 dead is a great way to … what? Finish Hamas? Make Palestinians want to live peacefully with Israel? Hamas is an ideology. You won’t get rid of that by leaving children orphaned, maimed and starving.

What might? an end of oppression and a peace process. It’s hard work. But obviously harder than bombing an entire population which is your choice.

Why do you say “they” won’t accept MY peace deals? I am not privy to discussions. Why do you say “they” are fundamentally opposed to my relatives? Are you part of the discussions? Have you been involved with diplomacy? My relatives dont feel as you do. And far greater minds than mine feel very differently than you. Who takes control of Gaza? Who rules a Palestinian state? How about starting with a ceasefire and then move on from there. No one on this message board, sitting in our cozy homes, typing on our IPads has the answer. I just know I prefer sitting with those that believe, like happened in Ireland, like happened in South Africa — an answer for peace can be born in the midst of this horror.

[Beastly Boy]

43. If you undersood my question, which I doubt, your answer was totally inadequate.

You presented an unrealistic and ultimately catastrophic scenario as a response to my question. In your presumption that a deal for hostage release in exchange for cease fire, even a permanent one, is the answer, you are disregarding the fundamental prerequisite for any deal: Hamas has no interest in it. Who is supposed to insure the release of the hostages, then? No answer.

Based on the hypothetical positive outcome expected from the non-participating partner in a desired deal they already rejected in principle, you then expect Hamas to ultimately surrender their power to the wishes of Gazan Palestinians who, in recognition of Israel yielding to Hamas' demands, will, as you seem to anticipate, relieve Hamas of their power over Gaza by the means of their non-existent democratic institutions , maybe. And that should end terrorist attacks from Gaza. And iran, Hamas' puppet master, will willingly go along with this scenario without objections. Aren't you forgetting that Hamas is a an oppressive violent theocracy which took power by force and is keeping it by force, and is breeding and grooming terrorists regardless of any external factors? To paraphrase Steven Colbert, Ismail Haniyeh has better odds of being mauled by a black bear and a polar bear on the same day in his hotel suite in Qatar than your scenario ever taking place. No wishful thinking or expressions of outrage will change this reality.

There is nothing wrong with wishful thinking. It allows you to take comfort in unworkable scenarios, and, on rare occasion, it may stumble onto things not evident otherwise. I can relate to that. Just keep in mind what they are and how far removed they are from real world applications.

[Nanjeanne]

44. Ok sorry I can't satisfy you. You are far more astute than I am.

[Beastly Boy]

45. I am a fan of snark myself, but believe me, showing off was far from what I intended

I am genuinely eager for this violence to end. For my sake and that of my people.

[Nanjeanne]

46. I'm not being snarky. I simply gave up reading your responses to me as I just dont have a clue what you

want. Other than to argue and insult. My replies are in earnest but they simply don’t give you the answers you seek. So I give up. I tried but I’m just not deep enough.

As for your people - I’m assuming you mean Jewish people or do you have family in Israel? I too hope they do not face violence as I hope for every people.

[Beastly Boy]

47. I do have relatives in Israel.

And I am Jewish. But my people would also include my Palestinian neighbors of twenty years, many of whom I admire on a personal level.

[Nanjeanne]

57. That's great. May we achieve that peace.

[TheKentuckian]

87. You just do not want to acknowledge that Hamas

is an active participant in the situation which results in a magic beans scenario.

The entire premise caves in on itself from the word go. Hamas won't abide by any ceasefire and absolutely has no desire for peace nor do they give even a fart, much less a whole shit about the people they rule.

Start with a cease fire and go from there?
Has already happened and here we are with Hamas breaking it and refusing any attempts at one.

The only "solution" on offer is a feedback loop powered by handwaiving any and all agency to a primary party in the situation.

You have no currency to barter with because there is only one endgame that will do. The destruction of Israel and you and all Jews everywhere dead and I strongly believe that is just a start.

The west is next.

Pie in the sky won't fill a single belly on the ground.

[Nanjeanne]

92. Do not tell me what I won't acknowledge. Ever. And do not tell me what I think about Hamas. Ever.

[TheKentuckian]

97. Then do so. EVER!

[NotVeryImportant]

59. Psssssst.......!!!

https://electronicintifada.net/content/video-netanyahu-brags-he-deceived-us-destroy-oslo-accords/8934

Tell me more.

[Beastly Boy]

62. Do you want me to tell you more about Netanyahu being a scumbag?

Last edited Wed Dec 27, 2023, 10:36 AM - Edit history (1)

I believe I've been saying this for a while. At one point I recall saying that Netanyahu is the only prime minister of Israel who put the existence of the state in danger, which goes far beyond the criticism in the article cited by you.

Now that I told you more, can we please get back to the post you are replying to and stop deflecting?

[NotVeryImportant]

66. No deflection here, the point is that Netanyahu is a representative of Israel

Israel doesn't want a two-state solution.

To be pushing that claptrap at this late stage is the height of dishonesty.

[Beastly Boy]

68. You didn't address one single issue raised in the post you replied to.

Instead, you decided you want to talk about Netanyahu.

None of what you linked to addresses anything in the post you cited.

And this is not a deflection... how?

Let me give you a hint. Netanyahu spoke ten years ago. Since then, Israel agreed to at least one cease fire which Hamas broke before the war and one cease fire that Hamas broke after the war started. And Hamas, not Israel, just rejected yet another cease fire proposal.

Quit beating a dead horse already!

[ripcord]

77. You don't make deals with terrorists who attacked your country

This is not a government to be negotiated with.

[Nanjeanne]

84. Oh ok. That's why Ireland and South Africa failed. So much easier to make deals with your friends. Got it.

[AZLD4Candidate]

95. So we should have talked to Osama Bin Laden?

[Deep State Witch]

67. Unfortunately

They're not doing a very good job of destroying Hamas. They ARE, however, doing a very good job of killing innocent Palestinian civilians. The Hamas leaders are sitting fat and happy in Qatar.

BTW - I'm not on Team Palestine or Team Israel here. I'm on Team Both Sides Have Blood On Their Hands And Need To Be Prosecuted For War Crimes.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

27. When you see a hostage situation on the evening news do you yell for the cops...

…to kill the hostages, the bank robbers, the bank employees, and the people in the apartment complex behind the bank?

Of course Hamas wants bad shit to happen. They’re fucking terrorists. What’s Israel’s excuse?

[Beastly Boy]

32. When you are an idle spectator watching the news from the comfort of your home,

it's not your call to make, and it's not your uninformed judgement that counts.

Now, to challenge your spectator attitude: imagine you are the cop. Then imagine that the robber who previously swore to kill everyone in your neighborhood, then killed everyone in your building, then took HIS neighbors, HIS bank employees and the people in HIS building complex hostage, and then threatened to keep coming to YOUR neighborhood and to keep killing the bank employees, the hostages and the people in YOUR building complex, again and again, until your neighborhood is gone. And he keeps shooting at you while he hides behind all of his people mentioned above.

If you walk away and don't shoot him dead, not only will he get away with the previous murders, he will keep murdering and daring you to shoot him dead again and again, while he surrounds himself with more hostages, and more employees, and more people from another building complex. And he will repeat this until he shoots you and all of your neighbors dead. He told you so.

So what do you do? Do you walk away, or do you make sure he is dead the first time around, whatever it takes, and risking the lives of everyone he is hiding behind in order to avoid infinitely greater casualties?

You appear to see no harm in walking away, every single time, until you are dead. It makes no sense.

[EX500rider]

71. Wars & bank robberies share very little in common

[Happy Hoosier]

51. Because Hamas has to go.

I think Israel believes that Hamas must be removed from power now, otherwise we’ll be here again in a few years.

[NotVeryImportant]

58. They old "they made me beat my wife" canard.

Gotta love it!

[lapfog_1]

26. since the Israeli response to Oct 7 I have been asking anyone to propose

a "better" response.. so far... crickets.

Cease fire... is all that I hear from one side... with nothing about what comes next ( since then Hamas will NOT stop attacks on Israel, and neither the PLO or Hamas will even discuss a two state solution... and to be fair, neither will the current Israeli government ).

To have a cease fire, you need two parties willing to "cease firing at each other".

Sending in 200,000 troops into Gaza to comb through the tunnels to find the 30,000 Hamas members and arrest them? If I was the head of the IDF I would resign if I got that order. Instead of 200 or so IDF casualties, there would be 10,000. And even then that might not be enough to find all of Hamas and eliminate it, nor is it clear how many civilians would die in that assault.

carpet bomb Gaza and kill anyone left alive - that would be a true war crime. However if we keep telling Israel that they are guilty of war crimes, someone there (bibi?) might think "ah what the hell, we are being accused of it anyway, might as well do it"

There isn't any good answer... and I'm sure a lot smarter people than me about warfare have thought about it.

[Deep State Witch]

49. You're Right.

There are no good answers here. There are no clear good guys and bad guys, like Ukraine vs. Russia.

[lapfog_1]

69. anyone that can use a gun to execute babies in their cribs

or rape and mutilate women and then kill then by shooting a gun into their vaginas... can safely be put into the "bad guys" category.

Hamas and Russia are the "bad guys" in these two wars.

Ukraine can be put into the "good guys".

Israel is much more difficult to decide. i think mostly good but with some very bad decisions.

[TexasDem69]

82. That's absolutely incorrect

Hamas is clearly, indisputably and without any caveats the “bad guy.” Hamas is comprised of rapists, child murderers and kidnappers. Hamas’ stated goal is the destruction of Israel. Hamas is the “bad guy.” Surely you agree?

[NotVeryImportant]

60. Hey bub...

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-doesnt-want-two-state-solution-joe-biden-4662464

Try anudda one.

[Kennah]

30. I too am no military expert, but where are the western militaries advising Israel on what they should be doing?

The US has never fought a battle like this with an enemy right next door. US munitions in WWII were far dumber than munitions today, and a lot of civilians died. A lot of civilians died throughout 20 years of The War on Terror despite massive advancements in the precision of munitions.

Phasers on stun would be awesome, but they don't exist.

[Arazi]

70. Biden sent top urban warfare experts to Israel almost immediately

after the 10/7 attack.

Including Gen James Glynn who led the battle of Fallujah. Not sure Israel is listening but Joe Biden has definitely tried to push Israel to minimize civilian casualties (despite the baying for his head from the pro-Pal supporters, who believe Biden has some kind of magical powers to force Israel to do his bidding). It’s odd nobody amplifies these efforts - it’s just Genocide Joe all over… 🤔

One of the officers leading the assistance is Marine Corps Lt. Gen. James Glynn, who previously helped lead special operations forces against the Islamic State and served in Fallujah, Iraq, during some of the most heated urban combat there, according to a U.S. official who was not authorized to discuss Glynn’s role and spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Glynn will also be advising on how to mitigate civilian casualties in urban warfare, the official said.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-military-iran-navy-gaza-1a906598be5baccc614897768b1824a8

[Kennah]

73. I don't recall hostages in Fallujah

[Arazi]

75. Your post didn't mention hostages, just urban warfare and civilians

I was addressing that point in your post

[Kennah]

79. Hostages in Gaza is what sets it apart ...

... so all of the "advice and guidance" from allies needs to factor that in. Which is one of the issues I've read about. What is the advice from other nations that have dealt with this sort of thing.

[Arazi]

81. There have been US civilians captured and held hostage

in war zones - most notoriously in WWII where Americans were captured and held in Japan and Germany (close to 20k between the two countries iirc but would welcome a fact check).

Other conflicts have also had civilian hostage taking before Gaza like ISIS capturing Yazidis, Boko Haram seizing the Chibok schoolgirls etc.

While soldiers try to work around ensuring their lives are spared, in general, the war just proceeds. If they can be safely retrieved - great but afaik, no country is tasked with stopping their defense because hostages…(except Israel 🙄 ). The US certainly didn’t try to stop bombing in WWII - mostly because we didn’t even know where the civilian hostages were which is fairly normal.

Hostage taking in wars is a very very ancient issue - probably one of the most common issues - and I’ve never read of a conflict where a country was ordered to ceasefire because of it

[LexVegas]

16. Some will only accept Hamas approved sources for this info. nt

[Cha]

18. I'm adding all this Shit to my Journal so

I guess I am "keeping score".

In first public message since Oct. 7, Sinwar says Hamas won't surrender



https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18552936

Link to tweet

is up with Shooting Gazan for trying to get Humanitarian aid?! How does that Hurt the Butchers of HAMAS?!

Mahalo for keeping us Informed, lapucelle.

[Mountainguy]

22. It hurts them because if any people get it

Then Hamas can't use it to fuel their terror campaign.

Of course it could also have been so that they could blame Israel for killing them instead.

[Cha]

24. Rec.. TY for those possibilities.. bc

it makes No sense to me.

But I can see that HAMAS Terrorists are such Medieval Savage Beasts and Fucking Stupid that doing that makes sense to them.

[betsuni]

23. K&R

[peggysue2]

28. Hamas is the enemy

Has been from the start.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, a threat to Palestinians and Israelis. There will be no end to the war or the bloodshed until Hamas is eliminated. They do not want peace. They do not care about civilians on either side; it’s not part of their agenda. Period.

How much more evidence is necessary? Hamas is no different than ISIS, the Taliban or any other fanatical religious/political movement; they’re killers. That’s what they do, kill until they get what they want: the annihilation of the Israeli people. They’ve said it out loud. They’ve written it down.

Hamas is the enemy. Has been from the start.

[dwayneb]

64. Hamas is ONE enemy

Unfortunately we (those who believe in freedom and democracy) have a LOT of enemies.

Right wing zealots like Netenyahu are our enemies as well. Exploiting power to save himself, just like Trump.

As far as "Hamas being eliminated", that is never going to happen. Iran, with Putin supporting them have endless resources to keep fueling the fire. Crush Hamas in Gaza and the fanatics will simply pop up somewhere else.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

65. Its like playing Whack-A-Mole with terrorists,

there are always those willing to step forward and take up the "cause".

[RockRaven]

29. Who would be "keeping score" or tracking "those keeping score" other than

sickos trying to justify their own bloodthirsty rhetoric or desires?

[John Shaft]

40. The idea of "keeping score"

is sickening.

What's next? Print up some Israel vs. Hamas scorecards so you can play at home?

[sarisataka]

42. Ironic

Many have been keeping score, but you are probably not talking about them.

[lapucelle]

78. The tweet makes it pretty clear that it's addressed to the anti-Israel / pro-Hamas protestors.

That's why the tweet makes this recommendation

"So I've got just the group y'all should focus those protests on."

It is pretty weird that in here in NYC, we're getting anti-Schumer, anti-Jeffries, and anti-Torres protests. We're getting protests where Democrats, Israel, and Jews are targeted and Hamas is celebrated.

They are sickos trying to justify their own bloodthirsty rhetoric.

They deserve to be called out.

[lostnfound]

31. In other news, Satan rejected deal to give up being Satan

It’s not news.: Satan is Satan and he will always be Satan.
What can you do to live next in peace next to Satan? You can’t.
So what’s the solution?
To drive out Satan, what do you do?
Can you bomb the Satan away?

I’m glad I don’t live in Israel. I’m glad I don’t live in Gaza.

We need a pied piper who can lure all the children away to safety.
We need some peace-inducing water to put in the water supplies.
We need an exorcism on Satan, and while the pope is in the neighborhood, maybe he can swing by Netanyahu’s office and run a test.

Jesus said love thy neighbor.
Jesus neve said love thy Satans.
Guess He knew the difference.

I’m glad I don’t live in Israel. I’m glad I don’t live in Gaza.

I’ve been to both. One seemed like an amazing country that treated me to some amazing experiences, wee very good at marketing, had a handsome resourceful helicopter pilot named Elie and there was plenty of good food. .I actually didn’t see a lot of kids in Israel, because I spent my time with businessmen and the kids were all in school.

The other seemed like the kind of neighborhood with great food and adorable little kids that was good on a sunny day but you wouldn’t really feel safe there after dark. I didn’t meet any businessmen but there were plenty of kids on the streets especially boys. I don’t know why I don’t remember seeing girls.

I’m glad I don’t live in Israel.but I’m extremely glad I don’t live in Gaza.

[John Shaft]

41. There's no such thing as "Satan."

Only human evil. It is consistent.

[dembotoz]

33. vs 20000 dead....guess they don't count...good to know

[edisdead]

36. Are we counting previous attacks?

[dembotoz]

37. news reports

[dembotoz]

38. google there are a bunch of em

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67764664

[edisdead]

50. My point is this

My point is this, there is a history here that dates back far pinger than Oct 7th. And whats worse is that Hamas says constantly that they will not stop. They have no intention of a ceasefire whatsoever. So the only option Israel is left with it to continually wait until their people are raped and murdered again and again while their attackers hide behind civilians.

I don’t like Israels response but it isn’t like their isn’t a long history here, and no Israel hasn’t always been without fault. There is no easy answer here but sitting it out and waiting to be attacked again isn’t a viable option. Committing their military to a ground war going house to house would be disastrous as well. There isn’t any easy solution. All I know os that it sucks.

[dembotoz]

55. my point is over 20000 dead

[TexasDem69]

85. As a result of Hamas' terrorism

[dembotoz]

93. really?????

[Happy Hoosier]

52. Who said they don't count?

That’s a BS strawman.

I’m still waiting for the brilliant alternative that surely you folks have up your sleeve.

[GhostHunter22]

74. OK, I'll bite.

The OP mentioned 'keeping score' and (of course) only listed the bad things Hamas has done lately - but strangely enough didn't mention the 20,000 (and counting) dead Palestinians.

I bet the 'ol IDF is keeping THAT score (when they're not busy shooting their own hostages that is).

[lapucelle]

80. The tweet is addressed to the protestors who ostensibly want a ceasefire.

Those protestors need to be aware that it is Hamas refusing to lay down arms.

Anyone who wants a ceasefire should be protesting Hamas.

Instead, at protests here in NYC, Democrats in Congress and Jews are being vilified while Hamas is being celebrated

So I've got just the group y'all should focus those protests on.

-----------------------------

Welcome to DU.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

48. Hamas rejected TWO ceasefires in the last week.

Link to tweet

[AZLD4Candidate]

88. Okay. let's follow the logic

1: Hamas attacks Israeli "military" targets like a concert.
2: Hamas takes hostages

People "claim" it's terrible but what choice do they have against the "israeli apartheid state."

3: Israel responds with war.
4: People in Gaza die.

People forget the terrorist attacks that killed Israelis and Israel is the enemy for killing civilians.

5: Hamas uses civilian building to house armaments and launch attacks.
6: Israel responds.

People claim Israel commits war crimes yet no one remembers what caused this conflict to happen.

7: People want ceasefire
8: Israel says okay

Hamas breaks first one after six days with a terrorist attack on Israel and Israel is wrong for going back to war

9: Israel seals the borders of Gaza
10: Egypt seals the border of Gaza

Israel is causing a humanitarian crisis, but Egypt does nothing to help their Arab civilian brothers escape

11: The world's attitude is not to negotiate with terrorists but tells Israel they must negotiate with Hamas
12: Israel says ceasefire is open if Hamas surrenders

Hamas tells Israel they will stop if Israel stops even though they started this entire conflict.

As the title of the book says "People Love Dead Jews."

[The Magistrate]

91. Well Said, Sir

[Lunabell]

53. Hamas is scum.

They don't care about the people. Only Power. Power. Power.

And the only score I am keeping is the number of innocent lives lost on both sides as powerful men kill in their name. Collateral damage as both sides stuff their coffers.

War is profitable for rich men.

[marble falls]

54. I think "keeping score" trivializes this huge disaster.

[lapucelle]

56. "So I've got just the group y'all should focus those protests on."

I think the tweet is snark directed at anti-Israel protestors who keep demanding a ceasefire, but have no idea that it's Hamas standing in the way of a cessation of fighting and that it is Hamas targeting Gazan civilians trying to access the food and water from the humanitarian convoys.

Virtue signaling through performative protests doesn't help the people of Gaza. We've seen anti-Israel protests and anti-Democratic Party protests.

When are we going to see anti-Hamas protests?

==================================

Link to tweet

[marble falls]

61. It doesn't matter from which quarter it originates from: it's too flip about the murder and death authored ...

... and suffered from both sides. Both sides have huge crimes to answer for.

This abomination has been going on for decades.

[lapucelle]

63. Do you know what's flip? Chants of of "globalize the intifada" and "from the river to the sea",

calling Hamas butchers "resistance fighters", and referring to President Biden as "Genocide Joe".

This is "flip":

Link to tweet

as is this:

Link to tweet

[marble falls]

86. Both sides have plenty to answer for. I am disgusted by both parties. And in sorrow all the victims ...

... Both Israelis and Palestinians deserve to live in peace. Politics and piles of sbloody money from third party nations to both sides have enabled the worst sort policies on both sides.

[AZLD4Candidate]

89. Who attacked who on October 7th? Following that logic, we have just as much to blame for Pearl Harbor as

the Japanese had.

The Chinese had the same blame as the Japanese for the Rape of Nanking.

Poland had just as much to blame has Germany in 1939.

Both siderism is pathetic.

[lapucelle]

96. The tweet is directed at the pro-Hamas/anti-Israel protestors.

The tweet concerns the fact that because Hamas is the party standing in the way of a ceasefire, the pro-ceasefire protestors should be directing their protests at Hamas, rather than at Democratic lawmakers, Joe Biden, Israel, and Jews.

There are no "both sides" when it comes to the protestors, only the (willfully?) ignorant when it comes to which side is rejecting ceasefire proposals

Link to tweet

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and the vile and cruel.

Link to tweet

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Link to tweet

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Link to tweet

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[keithbvadu2]

76. The pro-Palestinian protestors 'demand' a ceasefire. A ceasefire that Hamas refuses.

Hamas just wants to kill more Jews like Trump's republicans want done.

[sarisataka]

83. That is because the protestors demand for a ceasefire only applies to Israel

They neither expect nor desire Hamas would reciprocate in any fashion

[AZLD4Candidate]

90. Look at history. When Israel gets attacked, the world is either silent or blames Israel

when Israel starts winning, it's time for ceasefire.

No one really helped in 1948 when six nations attacked Israel before the ink was dry. As soon as Israel started winning, it's time for a ceasefire. As Paul Newman said in the film Exodus: ""When the showdown comes, we will always stand alone. Mandria will sell us out like all the others. We have no friends, except ourselves.""

[LetMyPeopleVote]

94. Hamas is using civilians as human shields

Hamas is using human shields in violation of the rules of war and such tactic is one of the major factors in the death of civilians

Link to tweet

Link to tweet