How Electric-Vehicle Demand Is Losing Steam in the U.S., in Charts

[dalton99a]

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/electric-vehicle-demand-charts-7d3089c7
https://archive.ph/wpsva

How Electric-Vehicle Demand Is Losing Steam in the U.S., in Charts
EV sales grew nearly 50% this year but have plateaued in recent months
By Sean McLain and Nate Rattner
Dec. 27, 2023 5:30 am ET

...

Sales of electric models rose rapidly in the first 11 months of the year, faster than the car market as a whole but at a slower pace than in previous years.

Car executives say they are confident that sales will accelerate as additional lower-priced models come out and the availability of public chargers improves.

In the near term, the cooling buyer interest has weighed on U.S. makers that had ramped up vehicle and battery production in anticipation of a larger surge in customer demand. Electric-vehicle sales began to stall in the latter half of this year, a move that car executives attributed to the relatively high prices of electric models.

As a result, electric cars and trucks are piling up on dealer lots, causing auto companies to reassess their investment plans. It takes a dealership around three weeks longer to sell an EV than a gasoline vehicle, according to data from car-shopping website Edmunds. A year ago, battery-powered models were selling faster than their gasoline counterparts.

...

[mahatmakanejeeves]

1. You can tell that The Wall Street Journal. is in the pockets of Big Steam and the Stanley Brothers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Motor_Carriage_Company

[marble falls]

2. Undependable batteries and Tesla's inadequate software and under-engineered mechanical parts ...

... are clouding the sales of all makers' electric cars. Poor range and underdeveloped recharging infrastructure does not help.

[JanMichael]

3. I've been seeing a lot of articles about conversions.

Especially smaller older sports cars like Spifires and TR6's.

Personally I would like to see more conversions than new vehicles.

[Hugin]

5. I hadn't heard about a conversion trend.

It would make sense to do that, though.

I’ve been thinking for some time that with the availability and modular nature of electrics that eventually the exclusivity gasoline powered drivetrains would be replaced by either hybrids or direct electric generation. They are easier and cheaper to maintain. ( not counting the battery )

[tinrobot]

14. Years ago, I had a converted MGB

It was fun, but also a science project. Nobody knew how to fix it, so I had to know all the ins/outs of the systems to keep it going.

Converting a car is probably more expensive than buying a good used EV. $15-20K in parts alone, plus the labor to make it all work. Plus, the conversions will never be as technically good as a car designed from the ground up as an EV.

Conversions can be fun, but most will be limited to gearheads who want to revive old classics as EVs.

[gay texan]

43. Cost prohibitive

I can still build a spicey 350 for two grand.

[MichMan]

58. Those cars are iconic because they are light maneuverable. and fun to drive

Weighing them down with thousands of pounds of batteries takes most of that away

[JanMichael]

62. I don't really care about "iconic" it was just an example.

People can retro fit a non iconic car too. Maybe a B210 is ok? But I would also guess that the people doing these conversions probably know about the plusses and minuses. They are generally gearhead engineers for the most part.

And for weight I am pretty sure the current 25 or 39% difference will shrink over time. Plus so much less pollution since pre 73 cars were so bad.

[Hugin]

4. I believe it is the range issue more than cost.

Especially, in the larger Western states.

[RubyRose]

9. Two recent incidences of quotes for replacement

Batteries on a Hyundai model for $56,000 to $60,000 hasn’t helped.

[tinrobot]

16. The cars themselves cost less than that.

Plus Hyundai EV batteries have a 10year/100,000 mile warranty. That's longer than Hyundai has been making EVs.

Even if there was a replacement, should have been covered.

You might want to check your sources, this doesn't seem to add up.

[Disaffected]

18. I believe the cited instances resulted from

road damage to the vehicle's undershield and resultant possible damage to the battery itself - therefore not covered by warranty.

The insurance companies involved apparently opted to write the vehicles off rather than pay for replacement batteries.

Also IIRC, the cases were in Canada therefore costs in Can $. Still the replacement cost is almost the cost of a new vehicle which is quite bizarre.

[tinrobot]

19. It is bizarre.

A replacement Tesla battery is $10-20K. You can get Nissan Leaf batteries for even less. Of course those are established brands that have had EVs on the market for quite a while. Their supply chain issues are worked out.

I think this is more of a case of Hyundai simply not wanting to sell batteries. Hyundai might still be having supply issues and would rather use their supply to build new cars.

[Disaffected]

37. That seems to be the gist of it at least if,

the YouTubes on the subject have any credibility. Hyundai needs to get this sorted or they will scare buyers off, especially those who drive a lot and will reach 100K soon.

[Zeitghost]

20. It's 10 Year

OR 100K miles. We put 30K on one car and 50K on the other every year making those warranties not last nearly as long.

[edisdead]

23. That is FAR outside the average though

Someone in your situation probably should be looking at extended warranties.

[Deep State Witch]

27. Heck, a new Ioniq 5 Costs Less

I think it costs about $45K as a base price. I looked at one the last time my Santa Fe was in for service.

[LiberalFighter]

22. That is misinformation.

Unless it involves extensive travel it should not be an issue. Except for fools that don't plan accordingly. There are plenty of them. But they need to learn. When people are already in the habit of charging their cell phone it shouldn't be a problem.

It shouldn't be an issue for nearly 100% of those using it for work.
It shouldn't be an issue for nearly 100% of those using it for shopping.
It shouldn't be an issue for most for the holidays that usually use their car.

There will likely be some bumps along the way until chargers are more prevalent that need them away from home.

Instead of having to go to fill up with gas they can charge at home that will be cheaper. And leave home each day with a full charge. Instead of worrying when they need to fill their tank with gas.

Less parts that need maintenance.

[edisdead]

25. It actually is an issue.

My FIL got stuck traveling from Duluth, MN to Minneapolis, MN (~160 miles) because there wasn’t an available charger for him along the way. Admittedly he was new to driving an EV (mustang mach-e) and he used up a lot of his range early in his drive. One of the places he stopped the charger was out of order. Then he stopped at another place and only a level 1 charger was available. It took him overnight to get charged and it never charged fully.

He got to my house and we plugged in his plug in charger and after 12 hours it never even moved the needle. I called several dealers and all of them said that’s how it works. None of them knew what they were talking about. All of them were ICE idiots. I did some research and found that if you run your battery down (specific to his vehicle?) too far that you should charge your vehicle with a higher level charger. Made sense to me as I know that to be the case with other battery tech. Anyway after using the chargepoint app I found a level 2 charger near me in minneapolis and was able to get his vehicle charged to full in less than an hour.

But on the way from his house to our house there wasn’t any available chargers for him to use. That IS a problem.

[LiberalFighter]

28. I guess there wasn't a problem when gas vehicles first came out.

[edisdead]

50. How does that apply?

That there were problems with gas stations doesn’t mean that there isn’t a problem with lack of chargers… Yes we will get through it IF the gas companies, their legislators, and the people that for whatever reason believe a bunch of propaganda do not stand in the way.

Acknowledging an issue isn’t arguing against something. It is looking at the facts and potentially solving the problem.

In my opinion it would be nice to have ample charging stations every 50-100 miles on interstates. In the story I shared this would be ideal. Additionally it would help if the manufacturers dealerships understood the product better than they currently do.

Me and my social circle are VERY interested in EV’s and own many different brands and models. In this thread people seem to be blaming the owners and operators for being ill prepared or seem to be negating potential customers of EV’s as not understanding how to get around in them but that isn’t always the case. There SHOULD be calls for better infrastructure instead of chastising people for not just settling for what it is and purchasing regardless if the infrastructure is there to support their needs.

We passed legislation (inflation reduction act) that contained funding FOR THIS EXACT REASON and barely any charging stations have been built with that funding. Why did we pass that legislation if there was no reason for it?

Again just because there WAS an issue with Gas stations way back when doesn’t mean that there isn’t an issue now. The difference being that there is the all powerful and mighty oil companies standing in the way. I dare say that the buggywhip industry didn’t have the same strength behind it.

[edisdead]

64. Good grief.

That isn’t even relevant. First that was how many years ago and there wasn’t an all powerful industry like the current oil industry fighting it.

Second if we want charging infrastructure to happen so that consumer fears are relieved, citing “there were problems like 100 years ago too” isn’t going to help much.

“Here by this $40k vehicle. It may not work out great for your needs today but don’t worry people suffered decades ago with the same sort of kind of similar issue so you’ll be good”.

No. If we want EV’s to be a success, and I think we all do, that will not cut it. Especially since the areas where we need installation of chargers are generally smack dab right in the middle of areas where adoption is at it’s least.

I do understand the comparison I get it. But I also have a father in law who sunk a lot of money into his EV and is now kicking himself because other than locally he can’t trust it to get him down to the cities here in MN as 76 year old. By all means he shoukd be able to make it. But people in rural areas want to know that they can stop relatively easy enough to recharge.

[Voltaire2]

55. So he ran out of gas.

I’ve never heard of anyone doing that before.

As the us is standardizing around tesla charging, and the tesla infrastructure is pretty extensive and good, the charger access issue mostly goes away.

However you really do have to plan charging into any trip that exceeds your range.

[edisdead]

63. Geez did you even read the post?

There was no place to stop. There was a plan to stop at a place that had 1 charger. It was out of order. A casino along the way also had a charger but was in use.Even the chargepoint app that tells you where their chargers are didn’t have the out of order charger indicated as out of order.

Planning to charge when going distances in some locations (even those that you think wouldn’t be difficult) is not fitted with the proper infrastructure yet, and certainly not if there is more demand on that infrastructure.

I believe everyone in this thread WANTS ev’s to be the norm. I certainly do. But for some, their needs may not allow for it- mostly due to republican blockages on stations being built. There is a massive difference between the changeover from ICE vehicles to EV that gas powered vehicles didn’t have to contend with which is the might of those that fuel the gas powered vehicle industry.

As much as I want an ev and I have almost bought one several times now, there is no changing that for ly purpose which is a fairly decent drive, it isn’t quite reliable which is VERY much part of the reason why the thread title is what it is.

[Voltaire2]

65. As I said. The standardization around tesla chargers

will minimize the availability issue.

[uponit7771]

38. "fools that don't plan accordingly" rented an EV did plan chargers were mostly broken or mislabeled

[uponit7771]

35. ... and charging infrastructure outside of Tesla

[ck4829]

6. Making Elon Musk the face of this technology hasn't helped

Elon Musk cars goes over about as well as Ted Bundy ropes or Vladimir Putin cellphones.

[gulliver]

31. Musk is fine...he's just for free speech

The pushback on him is kind of silly. The fossil fuel industry probably loves seeing people misunderstand Musk.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

33. He's an alt right anti Semitic clown.

He's also a union buster and was a covid denier.

[GoneOffShore]

40. So sad that there are so many Eloon fanboi's out there

Musk is one of those tall white aliens that could almost pass for a human.

[gulliver]

42. Obviously not an anti-Semite (even to the casual observer)

Union buster? Yeah, he is. But the UAW will win eventually.

COVID denier? I would say vaccine skeptic. Pretty dumb it seems to me.

But he's a rock when it comes to creating jobs, fighting climate change, inspiring innovation, and, lately, free speech.

So, as with all people, we balance the good with the bad or we err. Musk is good.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

68. The UAW doesn't represent Scandinavia.

He posts 4chan alt-right memes and attacks trans people. Why are you defending this man? By job creator do you mean he forced people to work during a pandemic?

The "casual observer" can recognize an anti-semite fascist from a mile away.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/17/business/elon-musk-reveals-his-actual-truth/index.html

[ck4829]

36. Elon Musk's biggest enemy in the how people see him department is...

Elon Musk

[gulliver]

41. Nope. His problems are in the eye of the beholder and very instructional.

True, he trolls sometimes, but even that is right and for the best for humanity I would argue. Superficially, he can appear wrong. But superficiality is a big problem in this world. He's helping.

[ck4829]

44. You are certainly free to see it that way

[Darwins_Retriever]

45. He bought Tesla, had noting to do with the engineering

I actually think his only engineering at Tesla has been on technology that is causing problems (Autopilot). He orders engineers to build something, but with certain details that the engineers disagree with. Now there is a massive recall on Teslas due to the wreaks while using Autopilot.

[gulliver]

46. Yeah, I saw that...they shouldn't call it Autopilot

I don't know about the engineering disagreements you're citing. He's basically a programmer in terms of his skillset afaik.

[Voltaire2]

56. He is a full out fascist.

[Ron Green]

7. We haven't burned gasoline in almost 7 years.

Some people’s need for “road trips” is their only excuse I can see not to quit fossil fuel. Although it’s really the car itself that’s the problem.

[Elessar Zappa]

13. Well, yeah, electric cars are going to need better range if they're to overtake gasoline.

That’s a major issue.

[tinrobot]

26. Not anymore. Most have decent range.

The range of my EV is 275 miles. I typically drive less than 50 miles per day. Most in the US drive about 30. On weekends, I may do 100-200 miles. Range is a total non-issue for 95% of my driving.

Plus I save a lot of money on gas and maintenance.

For road trips, it takes a little longer to fast charge, but again the benefits far outweigh that extra bit of time.

[Bettie]

8. For us, it is about the availability of chargers

We went with a plug-in Prius, because we live outside of town and couldn't take trips of any distance with a full electric because we can't be sure of finding charging stations.

Once there is a network where one can charge (for a fee, like buying gas) we'll be able to move to full electric.

[Tikki]

10. Not where I live in So Cal...

Just like Prius and other hybrids in the early 1990s saw the hybrid population grow,.the early 2000s and on are filling up with EVs.
They are everywhere here.

Tikki

[Zeitghost]

24. EV's make a lot of sense in So-Cal

In fact, I can't think of anywhere in the US they make more sense. EV's make a lot of sense in heavy traffic and in large cities with a functioning charging network.

I think when it comes to customers, EV's have picked the low hanging fruit. But they are going to need to solve the range, charging and battery life problems before they make sense for more people.

[Tikki]

48. It makes even more sense to retirees and same city commuters..

We have made the trip from just north of Los Angeles to Vegas once…no problems. We would have to plan carefully to make a site unseen trip any further.
We would like to go to Reno in the late Spring…we will see.

The Tikkis
We have had our Hyundai Ioniq5 for 1 year now. Love, love it…so roomy.

[Voltaire2]

11. I find the inconvenience of having to manually plug my car in when I park it in my garage

to be just too much. Why isn't there an automatic plug inserter?

I long for the days of stopping at gas stations. I also really miss oil changes. Those were the days.

[LiberalFighter]

30. Just think about the days they had to feed the horses. And manually put the reins on them.

The horror!!

I wonder if they had a problem with horses sniffing each other when they were parked?

By the way. One of my 2nd great uncles died as a result of auto-horse accident. With the horse somehow ending up inside the car. The front end was really smashed in. It happened in 1950.

[keithbvadu2]

54. The automobile was the answer to the pollution caused by the horse.

Many street sweepers out of a job.

[Elessar Zappa]

12. We need more infrastructure for electric cars.

In my county of 30,000, there’s not one public charging place.

[tinrobot]

15. The percentage of EVs as the total market keeps increasing. This is just a dip in the rate of increase.

Headline is a bit hyperbolic.

People are still buying EVs. Prices are starting to drop, cars are getting better, and prices of good used EVs is falling.

There's going to be a surge next year when Tesla starts opening it's network to other vehicles. Once that happens, a lot of the charging anxiety issues will start to go away. As much as I dislike Musk (and will never buy his cars) you have to admit that his company knows how to build chargers.

[albacore]

17. EV infrastructure... or hydrogen infrastructure... or ANY fucking infrastructure...

...just ain't gonna happen in this country.
We don't DO infrastructure.
That's why China is kicking our ass on EVs, electric bikes, wind-generators.
Just kicking our ass in general.

[Elessar Zappa]

21. They're not kicking our ass in general.

The standard of living in the US is much higher than that of China who still have millions and millions of an extremely impoverished rural population. Plus their system of government is totalitarian.

[albacore]

60. I didn't say I wanted to BE them, but - totalitarian or not - they seem to have plans, rather than grabass opinions.

[barbaraann]

29. Perhaps this data doesn't include leasing.

https://www.carfax.com/blog/electric-car-lease-deals

Check out the pricing for Nissan.

[gulliver]

32. Gas prices are way down

I'd expect EV sales to oscillate. We need fast chargers everywhere, especially places like office buildings and hotels. We need nuclear (small modular).

[quakerboy]

51. Bingo

Gas prices dropped and wages are up, so an astonishing chunk of Americans will now trade in their vehicles for the largest suv or truck they imagine they could possibly afford.

In 6 months gas will go up again and we will all be hearing the high pitched protestations from miles away.

[MichMan]

59. Be interesting to see a chart comparing EV sales to Gas prices.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

34. Very few union made options.

Not to mention car prices in general are ridiculous now. I'll drive my truck into the ground before I buy from a right-wing asshole like Elon Musk.

[patphil]

39. There are several reasons why people are resisting the move to EV's.

The initial expense is high, and battery life is a concern...replacement batteries are very expensive.
They don't have the range that people would like to see, and recharge time is considered too long.
There are concerns that the extra weight of the batteries, perhaps 1000 lbs. or more, will affect handling, breaking, and wear on tires.
And then there all those fires. Even though gasoline powered cars also do have and occasional fire, they aren't as spectacular as a you see when a lithium battery powered car burns.

So, you still have a lot of people, like myself, who feel the technology needs to be a bit more mature before jumping into the EV market. I'm sure the car manufacturers are working on all those issues, but it's still going to take a few more years to win over the part of the market that still buys gas or diesel powered vehicles.

[moniss]

47. I've pointed out previously

that there are some huge issues regarding adoption that are not being addressed. They have to do with the nature of housing in the US. A huge percentage of the population lives in apartments, tightly packed old homes converted to duplexes etc. A big problem for logistics and costs exist. Usually these apartment complexes have parking lots that go right to the property lines/fence line. The cars are all packed in, for outdoor lots, with little wasted space. So where do the owners of the apartment complex carve several feet here and there for chargers? How many chargers? Who pays for all of this because rents are already a major problem? I live in an area that has several hundred units in a complex of several buildings and there are other complexes nearby. Can the local grid suddenly handle several hundred chargers in a small area of less than a square mile on draw on a hot summer night along with all of the A/C demand? Very doubtful in my area.

The tightly packed duplexes in old cities frequently do not come with a garage. People are parked on the street. So do we go fight for a charging station at the local mall with hundreds and hundreds of others who are facing the same problem? The point that I'm making is that basically 100% of the discussion about charging is either describing it being located for when you are traveling/shopping etc. or you have a house/garage and it is installed there. According to the data from 2023 about 35%+ of households in the US are renters.

https://www.nmhc.org/research-insight/quick-facts-figures/quick-facts-resident-demographics/renters-and-owners/

[dsp3000]

49. I Keep vehicles for the long term. EV's are still in their first generation. I'll buy one more ICE/Hybrid before an EV

Once one of the main stream auto makers put out a proven EV i'll buy it. Preferably a Toyota or Honda. until then Hybrids and Plug in hybrids are an effective way to reduce carbon and tailpipe emissions for me. I refuse to pay $65K to be a beta tester and as i keep my cars for 8+ years who knows what I will encounter, and i dont want to find out or be financially on the hook. If i leased vehicles, I would lease a Tesla no doubt about it. They are like iphones, use for 3 years and then throw away for the next shiny thing. whether that is good for the environment is highly questionable though.

[JT45242]

52. Just bought a late model used... traditional hybrid was best for us

All electric was too expensive and couldn't make it all the way to the in laws or son on a short 15 minute charge part way (equivalent to current gas and bathroom stop in gas car now).

The hybrid was greener than traditional gas and much cheaper than all electric. Since the big tax breaks are only for the initial owner, it made no sense to look at all electric used vehicles because of the price.

In 6-7 years when we get the next car to replace the older vehicle, hopefully the range and charging speed will be better. Also, hopefully the price will come down (relatively speaking... understand inflation will make them more later, but hopefully not 10-15k more than the hybrid or gas models).

[ripcord]

53. The cost of electricity worries many people

The cost went up 23% last year in California and more increases are expected in 2024.

[MichMan]

61. EV sales will go up in states like California and others once they prohibit sales of ICE cars

[Initech]

57. Elon basically destroyed any credibility that Tesla had left with his Twitter purchase.

[SoFlaBro]

66. I blame Apartheid Clyde for his anti worker policies and lack of any business savvy /.

[Emile]

67. My next new vehicle will be an EV.

Just not ready to trade in two perfectly good low mileage vehicles.

[honest.abe]

69. Personally its the charging issues.

We travel alot so you have to plan out the route to make sure there are charging stations. Also the time it takes to recharge. I cant imagine having to wait hours to refuel while traveling.