NYT: 'Screams Without Words': How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7'

[AkFemDem]

I literally can not find partial content/4 paragraphs to share here that are not gravely upsetting. Trigger warning for extremely disturbing violent SA content.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html

[JustAnotherGen]

1. I found four

Which should be read over and over and over again.

The Times viewed photographs of one woman’s corpse that emergency responders discovered in the rubble of a besieged kibbutz with dozens of nails driven into her thighs and groin.

The Times also viewed a video, provided by the Israeli military, showing two dead Israeli soldiers at a base near Gaza who appeared to have been shot directly in their vaginas.

Hamas has denied Israel’s accusations of sexual violence. Israeli activists have been outraged that the United Nations Secretary General, António Guterres, and the agency U.N. Women did not acknowledge the many accusations until weeks after the attacks.

Investigators with Israel’s top national police unit, Lahav 433, have been steadily gathering evidence but they have not put a number on how many women were raped, saying that most are dead — and buried — and that they will never know. No survivors have spoken publicly.

[brer cat]

2. Tough read, but I thank you for posting them.

[Cha]

6. So gut wrenching and heart crushing...

I've read such reports before but as you say.. they should be read over and over.. this is What IDF is Defending themselves Against.

HAMAS said No to the Humanitarian Pause that Israel Offered on December 20, 2023., The Medieval Savage Beasts will fight till their death.

Link to tweet

Hamas kills bid to revive ceasefire deal, hostage release -WSJ

"Hamas's stance remains: they don't have a desire for humanitarian pauses. Hamas wants a complete end to the Israeli war on Gaza," a Palestinian official said.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218542611#top

[yardwork]

3. This attack was so horrific, so brutal, it was deliberate.

Whole groups of human beings don't think of this level of depravity unless they've been taught and encouraged to do so. Rape and torture are used as weapons of war, to strike terror into enemies' hearts, to create a backlash, to start a conflagration.

This horrific attack was designed to create a violent response. HAMAS and their allies knew that Netanyahu would respond as he did. The global anti-Israeli PR campaign was stoked and ready to go before the bodies were cold.

The whole thing was planned by deeply evil people. I can imagine Putin smiling as hell is unleashed on thousands of innocent people. He doesn't care. Their suffering and this chaos and anger serves his purpose.

[Chainfire]

7. And innocent non-combatants are the ones who have suffered the bulk of the death and injury in the reprisals that have

followed. There is no moral high-ground here.

[yardwork]

8. I don't think it's useful or ethical to compare suffering

It's not an oppression competition. It is what it is. Solutions will arise only from a recognition of reality. Jmo.

[Chainfire]

92. Is it ethical to ignore the death and suffering of tens of thousands of people?

[yardwork]

93. Who are you accusing of ignoring, now?

What's this?

[Cha]

11. This is ALL ON The Savage Butchering Beast HAMAS..

They started this Shit and this is What Irael is Defending itself Against.

HAMAS Turned Down the Humanitarian Pause that IDF Offered on December 20, 2023.. They will fight till their Death

Link to tweet

Hamas kills bid to revive ceasefire deal, hostage release -WSJ

"Hamas's stance remains: they don't have a desire for humanitarian pauses. Hamas wants a complete end to the Israeli war on Gaza," a Palestinian official said.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218542611#top

Israel Does have the Moral High Ground.

[Chainfire]

13. We will have to disagree because I believe the way the war is being prosecuted is immoral and illegal.

In no logical world can you notionally bomb a refugee camp, blame the victims and then claim that it was a justified and moral act. The intentional murder of innocent women and children is, in my world, immoral and unforgivable, just as much as murdering and raping Israeli citizens is immoral and unforgivable. More people have now died in Gaza in two months, than Israel has lost, soldiers and civilians, in all of their wars since 1947.

It seem to me that some people believe that Israel is incapable of sin because they are Israel. I don't buy that.

[AZLD4Candidate]

15. No Hamas attack, no Istaeli attack.

You realize Egypt shut down and sealed their border with Gaza too.

[Cha]

19. HAMAS Would Not Stop The WAR to HELP Palestinians.. HAMAS Kills

Last edited Thu Dec 28, 2023, 09:43 PM - Edit history (1)

Palestinians trying to get Humanitarian help and use them as human shields.

Israel Has the Moral Highground Over HAMAS.

In first public message since Oct. 7, Sinwar says Hamas won’t surrender

Terror chief inflates group’s achievements, falsely claims it is ‘crushing’ the IDF, as top leadership in Qatar evaluates Egyptian proposal to end hostilities

In his first public message since the massacres of October 7, Hamas leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar on Monday remained defiant, while grossly inflating the terror group’s achievements in the war.

Hamas is facing a “fierce, violent and unprecedented battle” against Israel, Sinwar acknowledged in a message to Hamas’s political leadership. But he also claimed that the terror group was on its way to crushing the Israel Defense Forces, and, referring to Israel, said Hamas will not submit to “the occupation’s conditions.”

Sinwar falsely claimed that the al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas, had “targeted” over 5,000 Israeli soldiers and officers, and killed about third of them — that is, over 1,500.

snip---------------------------------------------

The terror leader also gave inflated claims of the number of Israeli soldiers injured in the war, and the amount of Israeli military equipment that has been destroyed. He claimed that around 3,500 troops were seriously wounded or disabled, whereas that figure according to the IDF stands at less than 200.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-public-message-since-oct-7-sinwar-says-hamas-wont-surrender/

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18552936

[NickB79]

30. That picture makes me physically ill

Jesus Christ

[The Magistrate]

20. The Inevitable Question, Sir

What would you have Israel do after the spree of sadistic murder and rape Hamas planned for months, and executed in cold blood, under the banner of 'God is Great!', raising the battle cry of 'We are victims! Everything we do is justified!' and with the declared aim of exterminating Jews in Israel and around the world?


"The willfully ignorant can't be taught. The stupid can't be reasoned with. The moral cretin can't be rescued."

[Jedi Guy]

21. "What would you have Israel do...?"

Funnily enough, that's the question that the people shouting "Ceasefire!" over and over hardly ever deign to answer, no matter how many times they're asked directly. They might respond with another full-throated condemnation of what Israel is doing, but suggest an alternative course of action? Nope. They're fresh out of ideas on that one.

At bottom, it seems that what the people chanting "Ceasefire!" want Israel to do is... nothing. They seem to have this bizarre expectation that Israel will just sit passively and allow Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad or another terrorist group to slaughter Israelis with impunity. At most, perhaps Israel could ask them to maybe not murder so many Israelis. Just as long as they ask politely.

Less flippantly, they expect that if Hamas hides behind Palestinian civilians, which Hamas cheerfully does without a shred of conscience, Israel must stay its hand. The ultimate outcome of this approach is that the Hamas assholes live to murder Israelis another day. Israel must in effect sacrifice its own civilians on the altar of saving Palestinian civilians, is what it comes down to. If Hamas is launching rockets into Israel from the roof of an apartment building, Israel apparently just has to shrug and allow its civilians to be killed rather than destroy the rocket launch site by destroying the building it's located on.

It's frankly bizarre.

[mcar]

23. I have never seen an answer to this legitimate question

Just 'but Israel.'

[The Magistrate]

28. Nor Will You See Refutation Of These Two Simple Statements, Ma'am

First, not one bomb would be dropped on Gaza, not one person there killed or maimed, save for the sadistic murder spree Hamas indulged itself in on October 7.

Second, had the nationalist leadership of Arab Palestine and the larger Arab nation accepted the UN Partition in '47, the condition today of the people of Arab Palestine would be far, far better than the state three quarters of a century's pursuit of restorative vengeance have left them to live in.


"The willfully ignorant can't be taught. The stupid can't be reasoned with. The moral cretin can't be rescued."

[MorbidButterflyTat]

24. Thank you

for your humanity, empathy, and decency.

[Cha]

33. Israel Offered HAMAS an Humanitarian Pause on Dec 20 and HAMAS said NO. HAMAS

has NO Humanity

[MorbidButterflyTat]

71. I responded to a fellow DUer.

I am capable of having compassion for every rape victim, regardless of who they are or where they live.

No one deserves to be raped.

[sheshe2]

29. Did you happen to actually read the whole article?

This was not just rape and murder of Israeli women and children, it was genital mutilation during and after the rapes. Dozens of nails hammered into their thighs and vaginal area. Women and girls shot in the vagina.

These soldiers were not just acting on their own, these were deliberate acts they were told to perform and it wasn't just Hamas directing it and anyone that thinks it is, are just fooling themselves. There are many countries giving them a hand here, those that would like nothing more than to destabilize the area and the world for their benefit.

Seems to be working.

[Chainfire]

31. What Hamas did was evil; it was horrible, no one that I know denies or condones that.

Israel has the right to defend themselves against that kind of brutality, they have the right and duty to defend their borders, I don't deny that. Israel has the right and duty to destroy Hamas, but not the population of Gaza. What I have a problem with is Israel waging unrestricted warfare on innocent civilians. I do not sanction the murder of children, any children, anywhere, any time, and I do not accept any excuses for it. Israel admitting that they intentionally bombed a refugee camp is, or should be, a war crime. After WWII the Allies hung Germans and Japanese for those kinds of war crimes.

What Israel is doing today and how they are doing it is wrong, and I think that they will end up paying a heavy price for it.

[The Magistrate]

38. Again, Sir, the Inevitable Question: What Would You Have Israel Do?

You must have at least some idea of what would be proper on their part. Without one, how could you be so sure they are doing it wrong?

[Cha]

32. Mahalo for your post, she.. it seems to be so easy to TRY and Deflect

from the actual report of the atrocities

[EX500rider]

50. "In no logical world can you notionally bomb a refugee camp"

Except it really isn't a "refugee camp" as most people think of one, ie people living temporarily in tents who just fled from something bad.

These are urban concrete multi story dwellings whose inhabitants were born in Gaza, their parents were born in Gaza and most likely their grandparents were born in Gaza as the "Camp" was est 75 years ago.

Bombing it is no different then any other urban place the IDF has bombed where Hamas hides amoung civilians but acting like it is some recent refugee camp filled with survivors is a propaganda ploy IMO

[madaboutharry]

53. This misnomer was created by UNRWA.

Long established neighborhoods with apartment buildings, stores, gas stations, and other permanent infrastructure are labeled refugee camps by UNRWA as a propaganda tool.
UNRWA granted Palestinians inherited refugee status, a status given to no other group of refugees on the planet, causing them to be rendered eternal refugees, seven decades after 1948.
UNRWA is a corrupt self-serving organization that collaborates with terrorists. It needs to be dissolved.

[The Magistrate]

63. Cold But Fair, Ma'am

[madaboutharry]

64. It's ma'am.

I have been told that I am warm and kind. I also like facts.

[The Magistrate]

68. Thank You

I expect you are at that. The framing you point out is a problem. Use of refugee implies a temporary condition capable of remedy, and so is inherently destabilizing. Use of exile would demonstrate acceptance of what has happened and where you are.

A pleasure to make your acquaintance.

[EX500rider]

69. And where are they refugees from exactly?

They are from Palestine and still live in Palestine.

And most (well most of their now dead ancestors) likely came from about 40 miles away +- 75 years ago. (Gaza City to Jerusalem is 45 miles)
And where do they want to go back to, the British Mandate? 'Cause I don't think that's going to happen.

Are there German refugees in "Camps" in Germany from Königsberg I wonder...I bet not.

[lapucelle]

77. In no logical world would someone call the intended victims of hands-on terrorist butchery

"collateral damage in a war".

[lapucelle]

79. Hamas broke a ceasefire in November and then said "no"

to two ceasefire proposals in December.

Hamas started the war, then restarted the war during a negotiated ceasefire, then said "no" to two ceasefire proposals.

This. Is. On. Hamas.

[AZLD4Candidate]

14. Yes there is. If Hamas didn't do this, Israel wouldn't attack. This is all on Hamas. Stop with the both-siderism.

[Ms. Toad]

56. My brother made me do it is not an acceptable excuse

When a child says it. Not is it an acceptable excuse for a nation.

Both sides have committed atrocities Each is responsible for the choices it made in how it acted.

[AZLD4Candidate]

57. Following your logic, we were wrong for declaring war on Japan after Pearl Harbor. They made us do it.

[Ms. Toad]

58. We chose that action.

They did not make us do it.

And I know, personally, one of those involved in the Manhattan project. He spent the rest of his life trying to atone for the consequences of that choice.

I share his horror at the consequences of how we chose to respond.

[AZLD4Candidate]

60. And Israel chose their action when 1400 of their citizens were butchered.

Of course, terrorism is the only weapon the elected government of Gaza has.

[TheKentuckian]

91. Only a delusional soul would imagine much choice

is on the table.

The "choice" to just stiff upper lip and/or pray away wanton aggression is suicidal.

In reality we were closer to joining the war too late than having a "choice" to handwaive the world.

It shouldn't have taken Pearl Harbor to drag us in.

[SoFlaBro]

27. Hamas shitbirds set the rock-bottom of morality, so anyone opposed by default has high ground over terrorist scumbags

[Cha]

51. Well said.. TY.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

84. Oh don't feed us this bullshit,

Hamas knew damn good and well that Israel would react violently to this attack, that's exactly what they were hoping for.
Hamas is fully responsible for the deaths in Israel and Gaza, they put the citizens of Gaza in mortal danger without a second thought about it, they don't give a flying fuck about the citizens, they want death and destruction to further their cause of destroying Israel and every Jew in the ME and the world.

[mcar]

4. A very hard read, but we cannot let denialist

terrorist supporters have control of the narrative.

These atrocities happened. Anyone who says otherwise, or adds "but Israel" to any comment about these atrocities, is, IMO, offering tacit support to Hamas.

[The Magistrate]

5. I Agree

And there's a good deal of it going on here....

[sarisataka]

9. "Everything we do is justified"

Hamas’ Ghazi Hamad {Deputy Foreign Minister of the Hamas Government} says, “We will repeat the October 7 attack time and again until Israel is annihilated.” He also claimed, “We are victims – everything we do is justified.”

A statement ignored by pro-Palestinian protestors, the UN and Hamas supporters- "Everything we do is justified"

Hiding among civilians- "Everything we do is justified"

Ripping out water pipes to make rockets- "Everything we do is justified"

Using hospitals as operation centers- "Everything we do is justified"

Raping, kidnapping, murdering women, children, men, elderly- "Everything we do is justified"


"Everything we do is justified" but Israel...

[Ex Lurker]

52. They don't ignore it

they agree with it.

[The Magistrate]

54. Cold But Fair, Sir

That's the bottom line for most 'pro-Palestine' posturing on the left.

[AkFemDem]

10. I keep thinking about if-

Hundreds of American daughters were raped, sodomized, butchered and mutilated by state sponsored terrorist invaders, our entire country would be demanding our government rain hellfire down on them and show no mercy. The compassionate, softer human side of me hates seeing pictures and hearing stories of innocent children in Gaza being hurt, starved, and killed by Israel's offensive- but then the other human side of me, the darker, angrier side, completely understands how a nation can respond swiftly and violently with howls of fury and grief. At some point, enough bloodlust is enough, but like most people I don't know how it gets to that point.

[Calculating]

17. If it was our people victimized in the Hamas attack we'd be out for fury and hellfire

Imagine if 9-11 had killed 40k of us, many horribly raped and butchered by barbarians.
Hell, I'd probably keep firing the artillery myself, inching forward till Gaza was no more.

[EllieBC]

73. Not based on some things I've heard and seen

on social media platforms and even here.

Recently, someone was comparing Palestinians to indigenous peoples of North America. I asked would they be so cavalier in their attitude if indigenous groups started lobbing rockets into US cities and started kidnapping, raping, and murdering non-indigenous peoples in the US? Would they just say, “sad my 11 month old was kidnapped but oh well?”

Someone responded with they’d understand if that happened.

So I think some here and in other places wouldn’t be upset at all.

[TheKentuckian]

95. It was about a year and a half from 9/11

until we invaded Iraq who had nothing to do with it and that action had around a 90% approval so it can take a bit to "cool down".

In actually similar circumstances I'd guess a scale of at least decades for the U.S.A. as a whole and something like never when the threat was ongoing with hostages in the mix too.

Plus, even if one is cooler than the other side of the pillow and a fan any nation has the absolute duty to its own citizens to make sure the capacity for further such attacks be destroyed if it is at all possible and on that note not enough is being done.

The problem is what is enough is not reasonably doable because it would turn the whole region from powder keg to explosion while being at opposing national interests with allies.
The operational, financial, and political support chain must be broken to ever move beyond "mowing the lawn" and absorbing the heat that comes with necessarily doing so brings.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. Free link, without paywall:

https://t.co/FG4BlFd5Ch

[LetMyPeopleVote]

16. Thank you for posting this link

I had trouble reading all of this article. It is too sickening to read about this program of rape and sexual abuse.

[Hekate]

25. Still having a hard time getting through. I'll try again later.

[Codifer]

18. Charles Mansons words ...

to his murderous crew before he sent them to Sharon Tates home: "Make it witchy, make it gruesome".
He wanted to provoke a race war (if Bulgosi is to be believed).

Putin did the same thing. He wanted to provoke a very strong and very violent reaction.

He got it.

[hardluck]

22. 21 posts

And the NY Times article falsely blaming Israel for bombing a hospital had hundreds of posts.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

26. G-d help all women who suffer the way these women suffered.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

49. ..

[madaboutharry]

34. Many on the progressive left have dismissed the sexual violence and rape

of Israeli women and girls.

When confronted by Dana Bash on CNN about her lack of condemnation for the rapes and sexual violence, Rep. Jayapal responded:

“We need to be balanced in our criticism.”

This level of denialism is an atrocity in itself. Jayapal’s efforts to clean this up did not impress me.

There will be many who hate Israel and Jews with such irrationality that they will claim the NYT article is a lie. They will say this regardless of evidence, regardless of eye witnesses, and regardless of confessions made by the rapists and murderers themselves.

[Cha]

48. Yeah that was Unreal.. she sure showed

who she is. Dana Bash called her out again by telling her that IDF Soldiers did Not rape Women which HAMAS not only did but as Viciously Barbaric as they could think of with their fcuking feeble brain cell.

[marybourg]

35. This was the first act in the drama. Sexual violence

and desecration calculated to enrage any human, but especially the populace of a tiny country where everyone knows everyone’s cousin.

The second act was to incite well-meaning, but naive and history-challenged young people - and the usual opportunistic antisemites - to agitate on behalf of the “innocent” Palestinian victims against the wealthier and whiter Jewish “oppressors”, intending to turn the world against the Jewish State. A plan worthy of Genghis Khan. Or Caligula

[Hekate]

65. What you said

[dalton99a]

36. Kick

[EllieBC]

37. Kick.

Thank you for sharing this. It’s a heartbreaking read.

Hamas are absolute filth.

[revmclaren]

39. Kick.

An important story.

Let's keep this thread going.

[Lunabell]

40. Women and children.

Always the collateral damage of the wars that rich men make.

[The Magistrate]

41. These Were the Target, Ma'am, Doing This To Them Was The Object Of The Operation

They weren't people near-by when combatants shot it out, and got caught in the cross-fire.

These men of Hamas set out intending torture and rape and murder, and did so with the cry 'God is Great!' on their lips, and the hot-blood certainty they were paragons of pious virtue to do what they did. For most, it was the best, and often the only, sex they ever had. This was done in ecstasy, by men who'd never enjoyed life more than when they heard the screams.

I know it's hard for good-hearted people to wrap their minds around things like that, but I assure you, from the other side, this is how it was for the men who did it.

[Lunabell]

43. I didn't say any different.

It's been a tool of war for many men. Russians are doing it to Ukrainian women. This is not new to me. And it isn't sex. It's rape. Sex is good.

And, I guess you're a man. Women have endured and survived rape since the beginning. We can't even go for a nice walk without that fear in the back of our minds. The freedom to walk without fear of abduction and rape is something that men take for granted. War is a construct of men. Powerful rich men. And rape another tool in their war machine toolbox. Women and children bear the brunt of war. Always.

[The Magistrate]

44. We're Through

"The willfully ignorant can't be taught. The stupid can't be reasoned with. The moral cretin can't be rescued."

[Lunabell]

45. There is no "we".

[Cha]

47. Good.. your Previous Post Explained it

so well no need for anything further.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

74. Again agree

[lapucelle]

76. Actually you did. You called Oct. 7 victims "collateral damage" in a "war".

There was no war on October 7. It was Hamas's rape, torture, murder spree that started the war. These victims were not killed during a military operation. They were killed in a terrorist attack.

Intended victims, (most especially intended victims systematically brutalized in a sustained, up-close, hands-on, eight hour long attack) are in no way "collateral damage".

collateral damage

: injury inflicted on something other than an intended target
specifically : civilian casualties of a military operation

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/collateral%20damage

[Lunabell]

80. That was sarcasm.

I will use quote marks next time. "Collateral damage" There.

I would never literally refer to a human being as "collateral damage." That is inhuman. "Collateral damage" is a term used by the war mongers to minimize their culpability.

[lapucelle]

82. So when you referred to women and children as collateral damage

you were being sarcastic?

Women and children.
Always the collateral damage of the wars that rich men make.

Then women and children were the intended victims of Hamas butchers. And, of course, there was no war on October 7. October 7 was a terrorist attack.

It is true, however, that the billionaire faction of Hamas terrorists (rich men safe in their Qatari hidey-holes) did start a war with Israel on October 7.

[Lunabell]

86. Yes.

And yes. A horribly callous and deliberate terrorist attack against civilians. And that's all I'm going to say about this except they all need to find a way to live peacefully together. Israelis and Palestinians. I don't know what the long-term solution is, but we need to work towards peace and a resolution.

[Cha]

46. Excellent Response.. TY.

[NickB79]

70. Collateral, my ass

These women weren't caught in some raping crossfire between Hamas and the IDF.

Hamas soldier's dicks didn't accidentally veer off course and find their way inside of them, and their knifes and bullets didn't accidentally stab and slice them to death in the process.

These women and girls were sought out and violated on purpose, the actions pre-planned, the attackers instructed to do so. The polar opposite of collateral damage.

To even use the word collateral in this thread makes me sick to my stomach. It's a level of whataboutism I can barely fathom.

[lapucelle]

75. It's troubling that anyone would argue that Hamas's October 7 victims

fall under the category of "collateral damage".

collateral damage

: injury inflicted on something other than an intended target
specifically : civilian casualties of a military operation

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/collateral%20damage

[betsuni]

78. Exactly.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

72. Agree.

[betsuni]

42. K&R

[LexVegas]

55. The worst are the Hamas apologists masquerading as humanitarians. Its beyond transparent. nt

[revmclaren]

59. Morning kick to keep this post trending.

[Cha]

61. Mahalo, Rev.. I'll just

add another.

[revmclaren]

62. ...

[Hekate]

66. Another Friday kick

[revmclaren]

67. ...

[Cha]

81. Aloha 🕊️🕯️🏝️💙🌊

Mahalo

[xmas74]

83. Evening kick nt

[Ligyron]

85. Kicking again, important read.

Too bad about the paywall, I just can't afford a sub and I bet the rest of the article would have been seriously worth the read, tough as it no doubt is to to get through at times.

These people, their supporters and enablers are the lowest of the low and deserve no consideration whatsoever; only the fate which no doubt awaits many

[Arazi]

87. Free link in post #12

Morning kick

[Ligyron]

90. Missed it, thanks friend!

[ChazII]

88. I have been confused

as to how some can not see Hamas as anything but brutal and then I visited a message board for the Shia believers.

Shiachat.com
Politics/Current Events
Israel-Palestine conflict

I have been visiting the site since October. Here is the first post on page 24. The site does not give each post a number but if one reads just pages 23 and 24 it will give the reader a view of Hamas supporters.

"Another evidence, at least against the mass rapes is the following,

If there were mass rapes, it's been more than 2 months, almost 3 months since Oct. 7. Those 'massive amounts' of Israeli women who were supposedly raped, at least some of them would now be pregnant as a result of this, as has happened in every single war where rape was used as a weapon of war. Recent cases of this were Rwanda, Congo, Kosovo, and Northern Iraq when ISIS was in power. These cases have been thoroughly studied. So my question is, where are the DNA tests that show the father was a Palestinian fighter ? Even if they had abortions they could do fetal dna and this would show up as evidence.

If there is such evidence, I would like to see it. I am not just saying that, I really would because if that were the case I would be the first one loudly and repeatedly condemning Hamas for this. My guess is that the evidence isn't there, otherwise it would be now be front page news in every Western Newspaper and would be a continuously running headline on cable tv. So this is one more Zionist claim that has most likely been proven false by another type of evidence.

Edited Thursday at 02:30 PM by Abu Hadi

Edited to add the comment from the poster from the Shia chat page.

[AkFemDem]

89. SO gross!!

Since most of the rapes referenced in this article happened to women who were also brutally murdered- there are no pregnancies to report (of these cases). Of the rape victims who survived? Wow. The sheer GALL of expecting raped and traumatized women to reveal if they are pregnant, to carry said pregnancy to term, to undergo invasive first trimester testing if they did opt to keep a pregnancy is astounding. It also completely ignores the fact Israel is a modern, medically advanced country where emergency contraception (eg plan B/ morning after pills) is available!

[yardwork]

94. Nothing will convince these people.

If a woman became pregnant after being raped they would claim it was consensual sex.

Nothing will ever change their minds.

[TheKentuckian]

96. The cost of being convinced is too high

It is too hard to thread the needle of being in on the cause while maintaining the delusion of any moral high ground to scream from.

Of course that is significantly a shared truth of almost the entire situation from the beginning, this particular aspect just highlights the underlying soul deep ugly hate that is driving them.

They don't need any convincing they already are and just sit somewhere along the spectrum of don't give a damn to celebrating to cheering for more but know the cause cannot absorb the PR hit to allow them to fess to it and lack the character to do so regardless.

They know.

[The Magistrate]

100. Well Said, Sir

It's a hard row to hoe, believing yourself an exemplar of virtue and feeling some obligation to display your superior claim to sainthood. And when you find yourself ranged alongside people whose weapon of choice is atrocity, and whose battlecraft consists of little more than 'chicks up front' but against bombs and bullets, not police batons and tear-gas, well, really, you're shit out of luck, and can't look a mirror square in the eye.


"Saints are to be presumed guilty till proved innocent."

[revmclaren]

97. Kick.

Saturday morning kick to keep this thread trending.

[revmclaren]

98. New Years Eve Kick.

Let's not let this important thread die. 😥

[MarineCombatEngineer]

99. Amen!!!!!

This is a very important thread and should keep going.

[Patton French]

101. Absolutely horrific NT

[Liberal In Texas]

102. This entire article should be forced reading by the idiots

that are slavishly spouting that "from the river to the sea..." nonsense.

[revmclaren]

103. One more Kick for today.

[Autumn]

104. Any nation that is in a war, a police action or being attacked by terrorists

Sexual Violence is and has always been weaponized.