General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums
"The vice president of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephens of Georgia, was quite clear about the cause of the Civil War"
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/december-29-2023Letters From An American: Heather Cox Richardson
'Haley has correctly been lambasted for her rewriting of history. The vice president of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephens of Georgia, was quite clear about the cause of the Civil War. Stephens explicitly rejected the idea embraced by U.S. politicians from the revolutionary period onward that human enslavement was “wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically.” Instead, he declared: “Our new government is founded upon…the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition.”
President Joe Biden put the cause of the Civil War even more succinctly: “It was about slavery.”
My words: Just to clear up any confusion for Nikki Haley and folks like her. Anyone who believes that they are worthy to follow in the shoes of one of the greatest American Presidents, Abraham Lincoln, had better know the history of their own goddamn country.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
dalton99a
(91,497 posts)DECLARATION OF CAUSES: February 2, 1861
A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union.
...
The States of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa, by solemn legislative enactments, have deliberately, directly or indirectly violated the 3rd clause of the 2nd section of the 4th article of the federal constitution, and laws passed in pursuance thereof; thereby annulling a material provision of the compact, designed by its framers to perpetuate amity between the members of the confederacy and to secure the rights of the slave-holdings States in their domestic institutions--a provision founded in justice and wisdom, and without the enforcement of which the compact fails to accomplish the object of its creation. Some of those States have imposed high fines and degrading penalties upon any of their citizens or officers who may carry out in good faith that provision of the compact, or the federal laws enacted in accordance therewith.
In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and the negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.
We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.
That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.
By the secession of six of the slave-holding States, and the certainty that others will speedily do likewise, Texas has no alternative but to remain in an isolated connection with the North, or unite her destinies with the South.
...
Playingmantis
(506 posts)They really felt slavery was the very best system in the world.. Much better than what they termed the wage slave system in the North...
One writer described the slave system as a Garden of Eden spoiled by the Devil who walked in as an abolitionist..
Of course slavery was the cause and all knew it.. it was cause of the caning of Charles Sumner on the floor of the Senate, the violence in Kansas Nebraska, the attack on Harpers Ferry , the bells tolling in the North when John Brown was hanged and the celebration in the South, the uproar over the Dred Scott decision, the censoring of mail and papers in the slave states, the Committees of Vigilance in the South, and the Fugitive Slave law which Northerners said said "forbid what God commanded and commanded what God forbid." And there was the violence in Boston over the forced return of Anthony Burns and Thomas Sims to slavery under that evil law... One Boston man said he went to sleep as a Whig and woke up a raving abolitionist..
Only a liar or an idiot would suggest that slavery and its expansion was not the cause of the war...
pwb
(12,428 posts)$7.25 is the minimum wage in most former slave states today. My State the minimum wage is $15.00.
Playingmantis
(506 posts)They did not say Slave Wages but Wage Slaves..implying that working for a wage is a kind of slavery in and of itself but not really as good as real slavery since real slaves are property and must be cared for because they represent money to their owners whereas wage slaves are not of value to anyone and therefore have no security...
That was the argument
thomski64
(823 posts)pwb
(12,428 posts)She may just be that ignorant. Like Barbara Bush's beautiful mind defense.
efhmc
(15,988 posts)
mn9driver
(4,801 posts)efhmc
(15,988 posts)
Skittles
(168,915 posts)but she is a repuke whore who thinks the interests of MAGAts is more important than what is good and right for AMERICA
SidneyR
(202 posts)is that Confederate states did NOT EVER actually believe in "states' rights." That's a myth. The proof? Their reaction to northern states (like Massachusetts and Vermont) whose residents sometimes refused to help return escaped slaves. Southern states were enraged by that, loudly stating that those states up north had no right whatsoever to do that.
SouthernDem4ever
(6,619 posts)Not all but too many of us are guilty.
DownriverDem
(6,947 posts)When folks move there from a Blue State it drives me crazy. I don't even want to vist the south.
Martin68
(26,787 posts)as an independent nation. "Our new government['s]...foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
Philosophy is exactly what the term MAGA is all about. Make America White Again. Deplorable’s one and all.
hibbing
(10,503 posts)Can't imagine what's next, but it will be worst.
Peace
malaise
(291,702 posts)Rec
AverageOldGuy
(3,235 posts)-- The Articles of Secession passed by each state that seceded from the Union.
-- The Constitution of the Confederate States of America.
Then tell me what was the cause of secession and the cause for which they fought. (HINT: It was NOT the "Lost Cause".)
ColinC
(11,098 posts)One-eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war, while the Government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it.
These words are engraved on the Lincoln memorial but I wouldn’t count on all the magas who visited to read it.
David__77
(24,500 posts)Jean Genie
(529 posts)Oh what a nice man Alexander Stephens must have been - if you were rich, white, and a bigoted
a-hat! Nicki would have loved him.
ITAL
(1,241 posts)They came up in politics together as young Whigs. Stephens was actually considered somewhat of a pro-slavery moderate on things pre-Civil War believe it or not. Kind of like Lincoln was an anti-slavery moderate with his anti-expansion. Stephens was against getting new territories from the Mexican American War because he feared what it would do with the slavery question.
gordianot
(15,724 posts)The States right crap was promoted early in the movement for secession but the primary argument was maintaining slavery. Haley was obviously stunned by the question.
Evolve Dammit
(21,373 posts)Response to Joinfortmill (Original post)
hunter This message was self-deleted by its author.
sop
(17,123 posts)They view being forced to issue public disavowals of "Southern traditions" as more "political correctness," done to placate the "woke mob." And everyone knows "anti-woke" is just code for anti-black.
Behind closed doors, and out of earshot of polite society, they still talk openly about keeping former slaves "in their place." If left to their own devices, the institution of slavery would still exist in the South; a century of oppressive Jim Crow laws created in response to emancipation is proof of that.
Every day they demonstrate the factual basis of Critical Race Theory. They have been suppressing blacks and denying black history since the end of the Civil War. Blacks are still under-represented and being brutalized in America 60 years after the civil rights act of 1964 supposedly brought the era of Jim Crow to an end.
Evolve Dammit
(21,373 posts)TeamProg
(6,630 posts)who doesn’t know the meaning behind it is either lying or just so fucking ignorant that they shouldnt have seat as a people’s’ representative.
ProudMNDemocrat
(20,459 posts)March 21, 1861, Savannah, Georgia
We are passing through one of the greatest revolutions in the annals of the world. Seven States have within the last three months thrown off an old government and formed a new. This revolution has been signally marked, up to this time, by the fact of its having been accomplished without the loss of a single drop of blood.
This new constitution. or form of government, constitutes the subject to which your attention will be partly invited. In reference to it, I make this first general remark: it amply secures all our ancient rights, franchises, and liberties. All the great principles of Magna Charta are retained in it. No citizen is deprived of life, liberty, or property, but by the judgment of his peers under the laws of the land. The great principle of religious liberty, which was the honor and pride of the old constitution, is still maintained and secured. All the essentials of the old constitution, which have endeared it to the hearts of the American people, have been preserved and perpetuated. Some changes have been made…They form great improvements upon the old constitution… The subject of internal improvements, under the power of Congress to regulate commerce, is put at rest under our system. The power, claimed by construction under the old constitution, was at least a doubtful one; it rested solely upon construction… The true principle is to subject the commerce of every locality, to whatever burdens may be necessary to facilitate it. If Charleston harbor needs improvement, let the commerce of Charleston bear the burden. If the mouth of the Savannah river has to be cleared out, let the sea-going navigation which is benefited by it, bear the burden.
The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution—African slavery as it exists amongst us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."
Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/USHistory/Building/docs/Cornerstone.htm#:~:text=Our%20new%20government%20is%20founded,his%20natural%20and%20normal%20condition.
Lonestarblue
(13,154 posts)moniss
(8,542 posts)real eyeopener. I visited a pal who was in college as a history major. He had all kinds of books in his house about "The War of Northern Aggression" etc. Being a kid from the North I had no idea what that even meant. Although he was originally from the North and had only recently moved to the South he told me that many of the people there had a completely different take on the Civil War. In their eyes they were completely in the right and as far as they were concerned they never accepted defeat. I knew then that I didn't need to spend any more time in the South.
Evolve Dammit
(21,373 posts)moniss
(8,542 posts)when we grew up in the '50's we in the North just sort of took for granted the idea that what was being taught, textbooks etc. were all the same all over the country. We had no reason to think otherwise.
Evolve Dammit
(21,373 posts)from so many angles, state by state, county by county, all elected "officials" including school boards. The MAGGOT base has been brainwashed since my childhood and sewed the seeds for where we are.
moniss
(8,542 posts)gets into this a bit about how sides in conflicts purposely take the records, documents etc. of those they defeat and then spin their own narrative and since the other side doesn't have their documents any longer about things like personal property records, real estate deeds, government records etc. they are left empty handed in many ways to provide proof. Sort of like the Nazis taking the assets of Jews and now the Jews who are the rightful heirs have to scramble to prove their claims. Also the things we in the US did to the indigenous peoples here. We suppressed the truth for so long while spinning the narrative of the "savage versus the peaceful settlers" that it is accepted as "fact" by pretty much most Americans.
When I get the OP done (I'm incredibly lazy) it will cover some of our current conflicts and past ones as well. It is particularly distressing to me that the media of the last several years just plays along with the gaslighting etc. The current Gaza situation is an example. The media treats many aspects as though they are one-sided, unique, never happened before etc. instead of taking the opportunity to inform their readers about actual background facts,events, history of conduct/tactics etc. But the media treats this like it is an unprecedented happening when in fact it is not. The scope on 10/7 was a little bigger but the tactics and conduct are not unheard of for either side.
But then again many people want a simplistic narrative laid out for them, one side good one side bad, regardless how much of it is deceptively crafted. I like the people on DU because they are generally open and receptive to going "deeper". There are a few blogs here and there that I might submit a comment on in response to something the blogger has posted but generally I don't find the other "left/Progressive/Democratic" sites to have commenters who want to be as substantive as the people here at DU. So I do take the time to do hours of research etc. to gather what I think can be information that will add to the knowledge we have about a subject. I don't do many OP's like that because I am old and lazy, well I was no ball of fire when I was young either, but once in awhile I get something out that is serious and sometimes all I have is just a piece of good/bad humor.
Evolve Dammit
(21,373 posts)I also look forward to whatever finished product (or draft) you come up with.
LastDemocratInSC
(4,197 posts)
The Knights of the Golden Circle (KGC) was a secret society founded in 1854 by American George W. L. Bickley, the objective of which was to create a new country, known as the Golden Circle (Spanish: Círculo Dorado), where slavery would be legal. The country would have been centered in Havana and would have consisted of the Southern United States and a "golden circle" of territories in Mexico (which was to be divided into 25 new slave states), Central America, northern parts of South America, and Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, and most other islands in the Caribbean, about 2,400 miles (3,900 km) in diameter.[1][2]
Disaffected
(6,060 posts)that it is irrational and, as well, horribly injust. It stems from the failure to realize that people are first and foremost individuals, no matter what their skin colour, ethnicity, religious beliefs etc. and, if they are to be judged, should be judged as such. The associated belief that the "best" black is inferior to the "worst" white is equally nonsensical.
Simple logic such as that for some reason does not prevail in the thinking of bigots - it seems that part of their psyche is missing.
Renew Deal
(84,612 posts)I don't think she'd like the answer. These are the people she obfuscates for.
dalton99a
(91,497 posts)
Blue Owl
(58,043 posts)
prodigitalson
(3,181 posts)