Emergency rooms not required to perform life-saving abortions, 5th Circuit rules

[Nevilledog]

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/01/02/texas-abortion-fifth-circuit/

Federal regulations do not require emergency rooms to perform life-saving abortions if it would run afoul of state law, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.

After the overturn of Roe v. Wade in June 2022, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services sent hospitals guidance, reminding them of their obligation to offer stabilizing care, including medically necessary abortions, under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA).

“When a state law prohibits abortion and does not include an exception for the life of the pregnant person — or draws the exception more narrowly than EMTALA’s emergency medical condition definition — that state law is preempted,” the guidance said.

Texas sued, saying this was tantamount to a “nationwide mandate that every hospital and emergency-room physician perform abortions.” Several anti-abortion medical associations joined the lawsuit as well.

*snip*


Texas motto: Let women die!

[niyad]

1. FUCK THE GODDAMNED WOMAN-HATING ZEALOTS OF THE 5TH CIRCUIT.

May they receive EVERYTHING they deserve.

[yardwork]

2. What you said!

My reaction wasn't something I could post here.

[Irish_Dem]

7. Right, would they send men to the parking lot to die for any reason?

Nope.

[TheKentuckian]

74. Wrong. I know a white man that got sent away with

a bursting appendix and nearly died.

Similar happened to my daughter's brother except he is just eleven, black, they pretended he was drug seeking, and the poor boy ended up in the hospital for almost a month with cascading issues stemming from the bursted appendix.

Yes, they let men and boys suffer and die too.

Not at all to minimize this travesty but you are definitely off base with this piece of it.

[Irish_Dem]

90. Yes but it is not because politicians have made laws directing men to be killed.

[Farmer-Rick]

95. Exactly

They literally put into law, "let the women die". Where does it say let the men die? No where.....yet.

[Irish_Dem]

104. Can you imagine if there were "let men die" laws?

How long the laws would last? Less than 24 hours.

[SpankMe]

99. Your examples miss the point a bit

These cases you cite of men being denied appendix treatment had nothing to do with the fact that they were men. They were denied treatment for reasons having nothing to do with gender, one being that they thought the patient was faking appendix pain to get drugs. That isn't a "man" thing. These denials could have been imposed on either men or women.

The criminalization of abortion has become much more than just shuttering clinics where surgical abortions are performed. The mission creep of anti-abortion law and policy have cast a wide net that ensnares women on multiple fronts while having zero impact on men:

1. Hospitals, towns and counties are eliminating prenatal care at their hospitals due to liability concerns (treating a miscarriage could be construed as providing an abortion) and a lack of OB-GYN's willing to practice in these areas.

2. Law enforcement spying on mostly women has seen an uptick recently as women use the internet to communicate with confederates in other states to get drugs for medication abortions, or to travel to other states for abortion care.

3. Anti-abortion statutes have caused increased enforcement and criminal charging of pregnant women who are found to be on drugs or alcohol (so-called "fetal protection" provisions). These laws don't impact men.

4. The availability of certain oral contraceptives (taken only by women) has been curtailed if those medications could be used to induce abortion. There is even a drug used to treat a certain kind of arthritis, but which could also be used in a cocktail for inducing abortion, that can't be dispensed to women without special approvals from the prescribing doctor, and where no such pre-approval is required if the patient is male. I'm not sure of the status of the morning after pill. I hope it hasn't been impacted since the abortion bans are mostly after the first 6-weeks or so but morning-after is effective immediately after intercourse.

So, there are a whole list of new restrictions and hazards that impact women and not men.

That's what everyone's talking about when they refer to men not being told to go off and die.

[ShazzieB]

12. And then some!

[enough]

3. The more death of women, the more they approve.

And let’s hope it includes long-drawn-out pain and misery.

[CTyankee]

4. Why this 3rd generation Texan will never set foot in that state again!

[TexasDem69]

14. You're missing out

But there’s thousands of folks moving to the great state of Texas every day.

[58Sunliner]

22. I would not advise any woman of child bearing age to move there.

[TexasDem69]

25. Luckily all those women can decide for themselves

That’s how the U.S. works.

[LuckyCharms]

26. Oh, they'll decide alright. n/t

[58Sunliner]

36. "Luckily all those women can decide for themselves. That's how the U.S. works."

Irony died. The woman in many states can't choose their own health care when it comes to pregnancy. They are crafting laws to disallow pregnant women to leave, which should be their right.

[niyad]

62. Have you been paying attention to what is going ON in this country with

regard to "women deciding for themselves"??? AYFKM???

[dem4decades]

92. So can OB-GYNs, and I'd think they'd like to practice where they

Won't go to jail for saving a woman's life.

[Rebl2]

34. Or any woman

of any age that believes in women’s rights and equality.

[spooky3]

71. or man or non-binary person nt

[orleans]

35. i'd advise every woman of child bearing age to get the fuck out of there! nt

[JohnSJ]

38. Missing out on what?

[Orrex]

39. I'd like to see a citation for that statistic

At this rate, in a few decades the state might have enough of these folks to change the legislature slightly.

[spooky3]

73. It's wrong, per this site. In 2020, about 596K moved into TX and about 421K moved out

for a net inflow of fewer than 500 per day (and a gross inflow = about 1600 per day).

https://usafacts.org/articles/596000-people-moved-to-texas-from-other-us-states-in-2020-which-states-did-they-come-from/

(uses IRS data)

on edit: Maybe the net inflow number was depressed by the pandemic? Not much. Per this site, the net inflow in 2022 was about 174000 vs 175000 in 2020.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/these-states-are-bringing-in-more-residents-than-theyre-losing

[nocoincidences]

43. I lived in TexASS for 20 years.

I know exactly what women aren't missing out on by staying away from that state. Do you want women to move there and get killed by the stupid laws?

I would hope not.

[erronis]

50. Ad paid for by the Abbot/Paxton (R)epuglicons for cruelty.

[niyad]

63. And??? What percentage are Dems vs magats???

[DemocraticPatriot]

79. STUPID MAGATS ???

and a few misguided Democrats, trying to make their way into The Alamo ???


The rest of us who steer clear of the state, are missing out on dying there??

I will happily miss out on that. Sorry for your misfortune.

"Great state"???

Uh, no.

[DemocraticPatriot]

81. Mostly from the southern border, I suspect....

only for those people coming in from the south, would Texas be an improvement for them....

I suspect they will continue to flee to the north,
unless the saner part of the union decides to 'build a wall' on the northern border of Texas....

Get out while you can.

[Maru Kitteh]

89. I birthed my oldest daughter in El Paso and we will NEVER go near Texas again

unless and until it is once again a free state. Until then, fuck that place.

I love my children.

[Hekate]

5. By the time the non-medically-trained anti-abortion fanatic idiots had defined everything to do with lady-parts as....

…as an “abortion” I finally decided that yes, yes indeed, I am pro-abortion. It is part of women’s absolutely necessary health-care.

These evil, evil people would have let my mother die at a young age rather than save her from a near-fatal bleed-out, leaving my first brother and me orphaned as toddlers. They would have let my friend die of cancer rather than have the full pelvic surgery she needed, because she was carrying a 14 week fetus. They would have let a grad school colleague die of a burst ectopic pregnancy rather than remove the damn thing.

They are evil beyond words.

[Irish_Dem]

8. Yes it is evil. Most politicians don't care about abortion at all.

Their wives, girlfriends and daughters will get them on demand.

It is a way to torture and control women.
And take them back to the dark ages.

[Hekate]

9. Right. This is not the 1950s, at all. This is much darker and much, much worse.

[Freethinker65]

6. WTAF. If you are pregnant, it can become a death sentence in TX.

Get the fuck out of these States while you still can. If you do not have the means (because there are those living in TX that always say moving is too difficult for many), apply for asylum in non-regressive states. Perhaps Abbott can spend some TX taxpayer money sending American females and their rational thinking families to sanctuary cities.

[LuckyCharms]

10. This is all kinds of fucked up.

Don't really even know what to say about it.

What they are saying here is that the law is murderous.

[Sky Jewels]

11. Wow.

Their hatred of women is off the charts.

[Timeflyer]

13. With all the guns in TX, maybe ER staff should be prepared for a relative, or the pregnant woman herself,

to arrive armed and ready to persuade medical staff to perform a life-saving abortion if she requires it to continue living. (This is the kind of irrational thinking that these irrational laws lead to--but I'd do anything to save my child's life, so, yeah, irrational. Never going near TX, ever, nor letting female loved ones go there either.)

[TexasDem69]

15. You control where your loved females go?

That seems pretty backwards. Most liberals think females can make their own choices, including where they live.

[LuckyCharms]

16. This response has an odd tone. n/t

[TexasDem69]

17. Did you read the post?

The individual said he would not “let” females he loved visit Texas. Do you think that’s ok? My wife would tell me she can visit wherever she wants, and she’d be right.

[LuckyCharms]

18. Yeah, I read the post and your response. n/t

[TexasDem69]

20. So what's odd about my response?

Do you think men get to “let” women visit some state?

[LuckyCharms]

21. Seems to me that "liberal" men would do whatever they can to protect their loved ones.

"Let" was a figure of speech in the post you responded to.

[TexasDem69]

23. I didn't use the term "let"

And I don’t know what that person meant, nor do you, aside from his use of that term, which has a pretty clear definition. And it’s ironic that your defending someone who stated he isn’t going to “let” his women travel to a specific state in a thread discussing a woman’s right to choose.

[LuckyCharms]

24. The person you responded to meant that he/she would do whatever it took to

protect their loved ones.

But, you know that.

[TexasDem69]

30. The person I responded to

Said he was never going near Texas and he would not “let” females he loved go there either. Maybe he misstated his position—that happens all the time—but you’re misrepresenting what he said in an attempt to defend it, and you know that. If the poster wants to clarify or restate he can, but you can’t do it for him.

[LuckyCharms]

33. Sure I can do that.

I just did.

[TexasDem69]

56. Uncalled for personal attack that violates the DU rules

You should delete.

On edit, I apologized to the individual who posted that she wouldn’t “let” loved ones go to Texas after she clarified what she meant and that I misunderstood her post. There was no “trolling” here, despite your unfounded accusation.

[GopherGal]

19. Not quite the "Good guy with a gun" scenario the Anti-Gun-Control folks always talk about.... (n/t)

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

42. So, if an ER doctor removes a bullet from a shooting victim to save their life,

does that violate the shooter's right under the Second Amendment to fire his gun?

[Timeflyer]

31. Poster is a woman, a mom, and I know very well grown females can go wherever the hell they wish, but

if I had any influence over them I'd educate them about the risks. Jeez, I said it was irrational, right? That's how these kind of laws make informed people, even radical leftist vermin like myself, talk or write crazy once in a while. Calm down, and focus on the real problem here--TX, where guns have more rights than women.

[TexasDem69]

47. I apologize

And thanks for responding.

[DemocraticPatriot]

82. The "stand your ground" doctrine.... amen

The poor medical staff, caught in the middle, are even more likely to leave that god-forsaken state....

then maybe those people who remain will start to vote for "freedom".

In my personal opinion..... (deleted)


The Texas GOP is the modern 'Santa Anna'...

[dalton99a]

27. Kick

[58Sunliner]

28. It's state sponsored murder. I do hope women know to get out.

[UTUSN]

29. Figures: 5th Circuit - Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana

[erronis]

51. That's where all the right-wing cases try to end up. Guaranteed (and paid for) decisions.

[Retrograde]

61. Would this by any chance include Judge Ho

the man who claimed that abortions deprived [male] doctors of the joy of seeing a newborn?

[ShazzieB]

32. Let me see if I've got this straight.......

Texas actually went to court to argue for the "right" to let women die of treatable pregnancy complications, because... uh... err... hmm... the salvagable life of an actual living, breathing, human female is worth less to the Texas state government than that of a tiny, nonsentient potential human, even in cases where that tiny, nonsentient potential human is clearly nonviable and/or doomed by said pregnancy complications?

Yeah, I think that pretty much sums things up, in which case there is only one thing left to say:

[niyad]

65. You are exactly correct.

[TexasBushwhacker]

37. "Several anti-abortion medical associations"?

Like who? Pretty sure it isn't the AMA or any other medical association that expects its doctors to honor the Hippocratic oath.

[ShazzieB]

102. There a few anti-choice "medical associations" out there.

They're not mainstream, but they do exist. One "notable" example is the American Association of Pro-life Obstetricians and Gynecologists, which bills itself as "the largest organization of pro-life obstetricians and gynecologists in the world." *gag*

I have no idea how many of these groups there are, how many members they have, or how many of those members are actual health care professionals, but it would sure be interesting to find out!

[Voltaire2]

40. Autonomy.

Inclusion
Diversity
Equity
Autonomy

Each of these are the pillars on which a just society is formed.

[orleans]

41. holy shit! nt

[bucolic_frolic]

44. Does that make Emergency Rooms hospice care? WTF? /nt

[barbtries]

46. this is unbelievable.

"Texas motto: Let women die!"

literally true. who the fuck are these creatures.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

48. I think the underlying problem with these rabid anti-abortion people

is that they have NEVER had a women in their life with a life-threatening pregnancy. They think "life-threatening" is always an overstatement, and nothing bad will really happen in the end. It's their ignorance of pregnancy and reproduction that's at work here. They are not doctors, and so just don't get it.

There is also a strong undercurrent of women need to be punished for having sex and enjoying it, but that's only part of this.

What they forget is that each and every pregnancy out there is caused by a man. Not very many immaculate conceptions occur -- actually only one supposedly has, and that's not actually documented or verified. No woman gets pregnant by herself.

I think that one possible solution would be that all men have their DNA taken at puberty. Whenever a mother isn't getting child support, find the guy and collect from him.

[erronis]

54. You're mainly right, but some of them couldn't care if their wives or daughters were in danger.

Maybe go pray for them or ask for money.

But some are just totally lacking in any empathy at all.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

72. .

I think that one possible solution would be that all men have their DNA taken at puberty. Whenever a mother isn't getting child support, find the guy and collect from him.

Solution for what?

[Farmer-Rick]

96. When I found my wife in

A pool of her own blood passed out on the floor on her way to the bathroom, I realize how very deadly pregnancy can be.

She survived because the hospital was only 10 min away.

Texas would have let her die.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

49. Anyone who has enough money to say "people should simply leave Texas" should take some of that money and donate it

Last edited Tue Jan 2, 2024, 10:26 PM - Edit history (1)

to an abortion fund -- preferably one in Texas.

[BlueMTexpat]

52. Every effing eligible

US voter who did NOT vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016 OWNS THIS!

WE WARNED YOU!

[niyad]

67. EXACTLY!!!

[triron]

70. That was an incredible tragedy.

[riversedge]

53. @tooronlists Thanks to the 5th Circuit, if you get pregnant in Texas, you have no rights, up to & including the right to

@tooronlists
Thanks to the 5th Circuit, if you get pregnant in Texas, you have no rights, up to & including the right to live. If you flee to live, you can be turned in by a private citizen, incarcerated and tried for murder.

This is the Republican vision for America. #TheGOPKillswomen

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Warpy]

55. Great ruling, you bible obsessed yahoos

Cue torrent of OB-Gyn docs fleeing red states.

[TheKentuckian]

76. This one takes some expansive reading to even fit that bill.

I think they are oppression of women obsessed and the Bible is just the most handy yet sparse to outright false fig leaf they can reach for to spin up some excuse for it.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

57. Conservative judges have been repeatedly overstepping their bounds

They should not be making medical decisions. This goes for public health measures like covid also. The real death panels are the conservative-packed federal courts.

[Medical_Mom]

58. I can't even begin to describe how fucked up this is...

I was lucky enough to never face a situation like this but have had plenty of patients facing an unviable pregnancy about to cause major hemorrhaging and possibly death if left untreated. These are not women deciding in late pregnancy that maybe they don’t want kids. These are women that perhaps didn’t even know they were pregnant, or, if they did, never imagined that a pregnancy could be life-threatening.

How does the U.S. have such an high maternal mortality rate amongst developed nations in 2024?!
https://fortune.com/2023/05/14/america-highest-maternal-mortality-rate-among-developed-nationsand-rise-pregnancy-health-crisis-asima-ahmad/amp/

This ruling is nauseating but not surprising out of the 5th circuit. (Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana). Apparently, it’s ok to let women die as long as most of them keep putting out babies that the Rs won’t support once they’re born is worth it to them.

This is one more reason to get involved and not sit back this election season. Knock on doors, make phone calls, phone bank, text bank. You don’t have to be mobile or have lots of spare time to make an impact! Studies show that outreach from neighbors is much more effective than outreach from campaign emails or calls . We can do this!

I know Hugh and I are getting involved this year, even though these rulings don’t “affect us” since we’re past procreating years. Please donate time, talent, or treasure when you can!!!

[niyad]

69. Thank you. And a very belated welcome to our DU family.

[chowder66]

59. Fucking modern day witch trials.

[Liberty Belle]

60. Horrifying. I have young nieces and cousins in Texas. I fear for their futures.

These conservative judges and the politicians who made these laws are absolute sadists.

Apparently "life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness" are no longer rights guaranteed to pregnant women.

[CTyankee]

100. My oldest granddaughter is in Austin. She wants to stay and she has the means to leave if necessary to get an abortion

in her home state of MA. However, she cannot find an OB-GYN for her medical needs now because they are leaving in droves. I wonder how soon she'll just get fed up and move back East to her very blue state. She is not used to living around such vile treatment of women, but she loves her job so that is important, too.

[pfitz59]

107. She loves her job

But her coworkers and employer won't stand up for her rights? A puzzler...

[CTyankee]

108. Not sure she shares our zeal here at DU, or even the zeal of her grandmother. It can be relatively easy to grow up well

to do and a comfortable liberal. Her work is rewarding. And she has a network of friends.

[PJMcK]

64. I am starting to wonder about the country we live in

Over turning Roe v. Wade, etc.

It might be time to move.

[nakocal]

66. Unaware of the Constitutions

The fifth circuit court just proved that they do NOT support the Constitution. The supremacy clause of the Constitution overrules state law. What a bunch of stupid, women hating scum.

[DET]

68. Outrageous

Ruling appears to have been made by an all male three judge panel. Two are Trump appointees, one is a Bush appointee. Judge Ho was not on the panel (or it would have been even worse).

[COL Mustard]

75. Remember this, friends, and VOTE IN NOVEMBER

Remember how x45's appointments to the Supreme Court have changed our society. Stay angry and vote to never let him have another chance. VOTE and GET OUT THE VOTE.

That is all.

[mucifer]

78. Everyone on DU will vote. We gotta get

Other people to vote and vote blue.

[moonshinegnomie]

77. maybe doctors should stop treating members of the 5th circuit

let them die in the parking too

[PTL_Mancuso]

97. Do it to Save the Life of our Nation!

Let them gag on the irony!

[RandySF]

80. JFC

[keithbvadu2]

83. ER has a legal duty to let you die... That's their idea of pro-life.

[Silent Type]

84. At some point, an actual case will come along where a Texas hospital won't provide

an abortion based upon the lack of specificity in Texas law as to what is an acceptable danger . . . . . . That will be the best time to file another case, with a chance to win.

In meantime, choice lobbyists are working to define the exceptions — like danger to mother — to the 6-week threshold.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

91. The scenario you describe happened last month with Kate Cox.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

85. I thought the Civil War established that federal law preempts state law.

We have to end this evil shit -- vote every Republican out of every office everywhere.

[AKwannabe]

86. Then the state is a MURDERER!

Fuck all these misogynistic bastards!

[peggysue2]

87. This ruling needs to be front and center in every Democratic campaign

Women’s lives don’t matter bc religious ideology trumps all.

Damn them. Damn them all.

Vote. Them. Out.

[Maru Kitteh]

88. They're just outright telling us to go ahead and FUCKING DIE ALREADY now.

Right back at you, you prehistoric shithouse bottom-crawlers.

[NHvet]

93. Activist judges

Neo-Christian male judges playing doctor again.

[Mad_Machine76]

94. The Fifth Circuit

is literally the worst, most effed up court in the country.

[geardaddy]

98. Fuck the 5th

It only represents Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi

[KY_EnviroGuy]

103. And yet, they would treat a female Texan for complications of cosmetic surgery or...

chronic Lonestar Beer poisoning or of snakebites acquired during religious services.

I hate to think of how the Texas Legie wants to treat rape victims brought in for emergency care.

[ecstatic]

105. women are being sacrificed to discourage liberals from moving there

We have to recognize this for what it is: Women are being used as pawns in the fight to keep red states red. For many years we've heard a lot of talk of how Texas was on the verge of turning blue. Now look at it. You couldn't pay me to move to Texas. Mission accomplished. Same with Florida. They want to keep us out, and they're willing to sacrifice / torture women and trans persons.

[BobTheSubgenius]

106. How far is this Religious Freedom NONSENSE going to be allowed to go?

"Leviticus 19:28 probably prohibits tattoos of all kinds, so I'm going to err on the side of self-righteousness and not perform the life-saving surgery this patient needs."

"Oh, yeah. Non-CIS gendered people are wasting their time coming to this facility, as well. I'll probably think of some others before long, so check back often."