Just read an article from the Times of Israel that Blinken brought a peace proposal to Israel and was turned down flat

[dutch777]

The story says that Blinken has assurance from Saudi Arabia that they would recognize Israel, contribute to rebuilding Gaza and helping the Palestinian Authority administer Gaza peacefully in return for Israel entering into negotiations for establishment of a Palestinian State. Netanyahu supposedly rejected the proposal outright. I get that Netanyahu is up to his eyeballs with trouble and in a very weak political position given the Oct 7 attack that caught his government unprepared and surprised. And while the proposal does not solve the ongoing military threat from Hamas and Hezbollah, it could set the groundwork for Arab support that could weaken Hamas and Hezbollah and counter the negative influences of Iran. Yes, not a full and complete fix but a big step in the right direction that could deflect and decrease growing international criticism and erosion of world support for Israel. Just one man, one vote here but I am really against further $$$ support to Israel or rebuilding Gaza if all the parties don't get real that the threat to Israel will not go away nor will the Palestinian problem without some concrete movement toward a Palestinian State.

[Lonestarblue]

1. Netanyahu has already said that he opposes any Palestinian state.

He lso stated that he will push ahead with war until all of Hamas is defeated. What that means for the civilians in Gaza is more death and destruction. Unless Bibi is stopped, he will bomb gaza until there is no infrastructure left to support a population and in the process murder hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Arabs and western powers are offering Israel an opportunity for peace. They are refusing it. Again. Bibi is the one who bragged on the that he deliberately blew up the Oslo Accords to prevent a Palestinian state. Imagine how many deaths and violence might have been avoided for both sides had those Accords been successful. Israelis re not being well served by Netanyahu and his right-wing ministers.

Israel cannot just continue rejecting the notion that Palestinians have no rights and must be absorbed into the populations of other countries. I think their drastic war in Gaza has wakened the world to the damage they are doing, not just to the Palestinians, horrible as that is, but to the risks of creating a broader war in the whole area.

[Arthur_Frain]

4. Can't believe after all this time some people still believe Bibi would go for a 2 state solution.

But then half of Americans think tfg is a good choice for our next prez so there’s that.

[ShazzieB]

9. I'm sure Blinken has no illusions on that score, and neither does Biden.

But presenting Bibi with a proposal like this one is still part of the job, even if he's pretty sure what the response will be. Doing so and then reporting Bibi's rejection creates important documentation of what the U.S. and other nations have tried to do as well as Netanyu's refusal to cooperate.

I imagine Blinken's pretty sick and tired of the whole thing, but he knows how important it is to document every offer of assistance that is made and rejected. But, yeah, there are plenty of pea brains that still think this should be a cinch.

[Turbineguy]

38. Opposing a Palestinian state

is another way of saying "we want Hamas to continue its terror campaign!"

The fact is that the Palestinians need to have a piece of land and sovereignty. Doing that will be difficult enough as the "settlers" and many other Israelis will have to move, as well as Palestinians.

In the interim, having the Saudis administer things would be much better than an Israeli occupation.

In order to get this to end, people are going to have to make compromises.

They are going to have to do something like the 38th Parallel as well as make Jerusalem an Open City.

[ripcord]

2. I would guess that anything that leaves Hamas intact is a non starter

[Grins]

19. It is. Palestine is not.

It’s time the world, now affected by events in the Middle East, creates the Palestinian state Bibi doesn’t want.

And then cut off aid to Israel.

[ripcord]

27. If the world wants this

Let them deal with Hamas but Israel isn't going to stop until Hamas has been dealt with, doing so would just invite another terrorist attack.

[dutch777]

61. The outcome will be some form of "weakened but not defeated" for Hamas. Short of true genocide, they will be back.

It may get a new name, new leadership, changes in tactics but it will be prone to violence and supported by Iran and others. No different than the Israeli cause, the Palestinian cause will remain with adherents willing to kill and die for it funded by outside cash. I can see why the Israeli's fear establishment of a Palestinian state but their chosen alternative has not proven to fix anything or be better. Maybe time to try something new?

[GuppyGal]

52. I could see Israel wanting to eradicate a good chunk of them before entering into any kind of 'peace' agreements

[Happy Hoosier]

3. NutAndYahoo has to go, really.

We need to start tightening the screws on him.

[Arazi]

8. Hamas has to go too, really

The other Arab states need to be tightening the screws on them too.

I guarantee you there’s not an Israeli PM of any party that would accept any peace plan until Hamas is permanently crushed. The dynamics in Israel have utterly changed and that’s just the new reality now.

Israel is a net weapons exporter now. They don’t actually need US at all. The $$ we give them is to pay for Israeli intelligence in the region and we’re not giving that up either

[Happy Hoosier]

12. Absolutely.💯

Both are obstacles to a lasting peace.

[OMGWTF]

5. I'm so old I remember when there was actually a country called Palestine.

All of the Talibangelists are cheering this war in the ME, because they are convinced that it'll bring back JHC, and they can sneer and thumb their noses at us and say, "I told ya so!" as JHC sucks them up in His Vacuum Cleaner of Righteousness.

[sarisataka]

6. You must be infinitely old

as there has been no country called Palestine in recorded human history.

[Lonestarblue]

10. Nor was there a country called Israel before 1948-just the Land of Israel, along with the Land of Palestine.

[sarisataka]

17. Did I ever make any claim there was?

Or is this just a deflection from a false fact?

[PufPuf23]

21. Many half-truths and deflections surround what has happened and is happening in Israel and Gaza.

One would assume no false facts and incomplete history are posted,

One would also assume that POTUS Biden would be supported and not undermined by rightwing politics.

[PatrickforB]

14. Yeah but that 'vacuum cleaner of righteousness' deal is original - gotta give them that! You know, I just looked it up

and the British Empire laid the initial groundwork for this violence, just as they did with the formation of Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia after WWI.

[Celerity]

34. State of Palestine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين, romanized: Filasṭīn[d]), officially the State of Palestine (دولة فلسطين, Dawlat Filasṭīn), is a state in the Southern Levant region of West Asia. Founded on 15 November 1988 and officially governed by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), it claims the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip as its territory, all of which has been Israeli-occupied territories since the 1967 Six-Day War. The West Bank contains 165 Palestinian enclaves that are under partial Palestinian rule, but the remainder, including 200 Israeli settlements, is under full Israeli control. The Gaza Strip was governed by Egypt but conquered by Israel in 1967. Israel governed the region until it withdrew in 2005. Hamas seized power after winning the 2006 Palestinian legislative election. The Gaza Strip has since been blockaded by Israel and Egypt.

Mandatory Palestine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine

Mandatory Palestine was a geopolitical entity that existed between 1920 and 1948 in the region of Palestine under the terms of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine. During the First World War (1914–1918), an Arab uprising against Ottoman rule and the British Empire's Egyptian Expeditionary Force (EEF) drove the Ottoman Turks out of the Levant. The United Kingdom had agreed in the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence that it would honour Arab independence if the Arabs revolted against the Ottoman Turks, but in the end, the United Kingdom and France divided the area under the Sykes–Picot Agreement—an act of betrayal in the eyes of the Arabs.

Further complicating the issue was the Balfour Declaration of 1917, in which Britain promised its support for the establishment of a Jewish "national home" in Palestine. At the war's end the British and French formed a joint "Occupied Enemy Territory Administration" in what had been Ottoman Syria. The British achieved legitimacy by obtaining a mandate from the League of Nations in June 1922. One objective of the League of Nations mandate system was to administer areas of the defunct Ottoman Empire "until such time as they are able to stand alone".

During the Mandate, the area saw successive waves of Jewish immigration and the rise of nationalist movements in both the Jewish and the Arab communities. Competing interests of the two populations led to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine and the 1944–1948 Jewish insurgency in Mandatory Palestine. The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine to divide the territory into two states, one Arab and one Jewish, was passed in November 1947. The 1948 Palestine war ended with the territory of Mandatory Palestine divided among the State of Israel, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, which annexed territory on the West Bank of the Jordan River, and the Kingdom of Egypt, which established the "All-Palestine Protectorate" in the Gaza Strip.

Mandatory Palestine was designated as a Class A Mandate, based on its social, political, and economic development. This classification was reserved for post-war mandates with the highest capacity for self-governance. With the exception of mandatory Palestine, all Class A mandates had gained independence by 1946.

[OilemFirchen]

44. Confirming what your interlocutor stated.

[Celerity]

46. No

[OilemFirchen]

47. Ahyup.

Embarrassing, huh?

[Celerity]

48. not for me

Embarrassing, huh?

A large majority of the other nation states on the planet recognise the State of Palestine, including us here in Sweden.

The State of Palestine has been accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly in November 2012.

As of 2 June 2023, 139 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine.

Sweden officially recognises state of Palestine

Sweden becomes first EU member in western Europe to make move, saying ‘we hope this will show the way for others’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/30/sweden-officially-recognises-state-palestine

Thu 30 Oct 2014

Sweden has officially recognised the state of Palestine, the Swedish foreign minister said, less than a month after Stockholm announced its intention to make the controversial move. “Today the government takes the decision to recognise the state of Palestine,” Margot Wallström said in a statement published in the Dagens Nyheter newspaper on Thursday. “It is an important step that confirms the Palestinians’ right to self-determination,” the foreign minister said. “We hope that this will show the way for others.”

Sweden’s new prime minister, Stefan Löfven, announced in his inaugural address to parliament in early October that his country would become the first EU member in western Europe to recognise a Palestinian state. While the Palestinians cheered the move, Israel summoned Sweden’s ambassador to protest and express disappointment. Israel says the Palestinians can only receive their promised state through direct negotiations and not through other diplomatic channels.

Seven EU member states have already recognised a Palestinian state – Bulgaria, Cyprus, Slovakia, Hungary, Malta, Poland and Romania. Non-EU member Iceland is the only other western European nation to have done so. The US cautioned Sweden against recognition, calling it “premature” and saying the Palestinian state could only come through a negotiated solution between Israelis and Palestinians.

In Thursday’s announcement, Wallström said: “The government considers that international law criteria for recognition of a Palestinian state have been fulfilled.” A spokesman for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, welcomed Sweden’s decision, describing it as “brave and historic”. “All countries of the world that are still hesitant to recognise our right to an independent Palestinian state based on 1967 borders, with East Jerusalem as its capital, [should] follow Sweden’s lead,” his spokesman quoted him as saying.

[OilemFirchen]

55. Not a country. Never was.

See how easy?

[Celerity]

58. Your claims are false (as I have shown).

Done here.

[OilemFirchen]

59. Silliness writ large.

Your "fact", at the very least, undermines the argument for a two-state solution. Your answer: "It already exists!" Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

Buh bye.

[red dog 1]

11. Who is JHC?

[Celerity]

28. jesus h christ

[CelticCrow]

35. That would be Jesus H Christ

That would be Jesus H Christ

[Happy Hoosier]

15. Oh really? When was that?

There has never been a sovereign country called Palestine.

[sarisataka]

7. Any link to the story?

[red dog 1]

16. Here is a link to the story

https://timesofisrael.com/in-israel-blinken-says-peace-with-neighbors-hinges-on-path-to-palestinian-state/

[Grins]

20. From 8-days ago.

Surprised I missed it.

[lefthandedskyhook]

13. Netanyahu is an ass

.

[Backseat Driver]

18. Are Americans speaking to Hamas (the government) or Hamas, leaders in the terrorist group? One in the same?

Let's ask those we speak with about release of hostages, needs of women, children, and sick and injured's basic needs to have a supervised observer vote on changing those palestinian officials' group name; those that won't come up with an official governing name for whomever we speak to for peace and protection of the palastinian civilians trapped inside Gaza; to H*ll with the others willing to use the name of a terrorist group though they see nothing wrong with the Hamas brand and using citizens as shields for governing by terror. It's just a small thing...if there's truly a difference???

Seems Israel's Netanyahoo can be philosophy-branded as the leader/member of a RW Israeli party...I think we have our own issues with a branded GOP RW ex-leader in this country. This must create a difficult trust issue between themselves, Israel and ally America, and any other ME countries' peace negotiators??? Yeah, I know:
Nolite Te Bastardes Carborundorum - I'm patient and hopeful for the living; but still feel a bit of empathy for those still in grave danger trapped by escalating terror and fear.

[Alice Kramden]

22. It's in Netanyahu's interest to keep the war going

To postpone his own poltical day of reckoning

[TheKentuckian]

24. It is. That doesn't mean any other possible Prime Minister would not also

be prosecuting the war as would any plausible leader of any actual nation in the same position.

Sooooo much chest beating bullshitting goes on with this.

No other nation ever is putting up with this even half as well for even a tenth as long.

Netanyahu will not be replaced with some new incarnation of Buddha and the Palestinians or who ever they are represented by are unlikely to want a nation of their own if the price is peaceful coexistence with Israel.
A nation of genocidal martyrs for the Middle East version of The South Shall Rise Again aren't looking for deals or productive negotiations nor should much desire to do so with a best case scenario of hostile safe haven of state based terrorism free to import all the implements of destruction to launch at you while setting up a base of regional attack once again.

If the threat has not been abated then the only option is to eliminate or disable it.
Failure to do so is the abdication of a state's must basic obligation.

[iemanja]

23. He wants to clear Palestine of all Palestinians

and take the land. That much is clear. That's why he doesn't want peace.

[TexasDem69]

29. Complete bullshit speculation

If Israel wanted that outcome it would have already happened.

[iemanja]

49. What do you think that proposal to send them to Africa is?

It's something he's already proposed, hardly bullshit.

[TexasDem69]

56. Do you have a link to a legitimate news source

Where Netanyahu proposed that?

[iemanja]

60. Here

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-negotiating-african-countries-expel-palestinians-gaza-report
CNN: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/israel-s-far-right-wants-to-move-palestinians-out-of-gaza-its-ideas-are-gaining-attention/ar-AA1n6Dat

An Israeli source: https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=4656a2ad492dff6eJmltdHM9MTcwNTYyMjQwMCZpZ3VpZD0wYzRmNGUzNS1iMzM1LTZhMzEtMTZlMi01ZTVhYjI0YjZiMTYmaW5zaWQ9NTMzMQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=0c4f4e35-b335-6a31-16e2-5e5ab24b6b16&psq=israel+send+palestinians+africa&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGFhcmV0ei5jb20vaXNyYWVsLW5ld3MvMjAyMy0xMi0yNi90eS1hcnRpY2xlL2lzcmFlbGktbWstaXNyYWVsLWhhcy1yZWNlaXZlZC1pbnF1aXJpZXMtZnJvbS1jb3VudHJpZXMtdG8tYWNjZXB0LXJlZnVnZWVzLWZyb20tZ2F6YS8wMDAwMDE4Yy1hNTBlLWQ0MDgtYTk5Zi1lZDVlYzRmMDAwMDA&ntb=1

https://issafrica.org/iss-today/african-countries-should-not-entertain-taking-forcibly-displaced-palestinians

Wall Street Journal: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-s-far-right-calls-for-palestinians-to-resettle-outside-gaza/ar-AA1mJfCZ

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-negotiating-african-countries-expel-palestinians-gaza-report

https://www.premiumtimesng.com/opinion/658358-insanity-and-israeli-plans-to-relocate-palestinians-to-africa-by-owei-lakemfa.html

And to Canada:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/israel-allies-warn-against-displacement-palestinians-gaza-1.7073734
Then Israel has passed a law making it easier to strip Palestinians of residency: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/16/israeli-law-allowing-palestinian-prisoner-deportation-a

There are doubtless more.

And of course it was posted on DU, and in five minutes you'll be pretending it never happened.

[GuppyGal]

51. That will not happen. nt

[WarGamer]

25. The US is "playing" with Israel. Just looking to make brownie points.

Need to be a little more firm with Bibi...

Pull Ambassador, cut funding...

STOP indiscriminate destruction.

[TexasDem69]

31. Nothing about Israel's defense of its citizens

Has been indiscriminate. I can’t believe that any reasonable person would make that claim. It simply isn’t true. Hamas likes these types of posts though.

[WarGamer]

32. Another person confusing criticism of Bibi for support of Hamas.

You don't kill 10,000 children if you're waging war in a cautious manner.

[TexasDem69]

33. You called Israel's action indiscriminate

Not me. The use of that word suggests that you think Israel is acting without restraint. I’m glad to see you clarified that you don’t think that is the case and that we both support Israel’s right to defend itself.

Do you agree that the most important step is for Hamas to surrender the murderers and rapists who planned or participated in October 7? That should be non-negotiable.

[WarGamer]

36. Here's the problem and I apologize for getting too deep in the woods.

There is always the "right thing to do" and the best thing to do.

In a perfect world, Harry Potter hands me his wand and every HAMAS murderer keels over and assumes room temperature.

Hostages come home and the world is a better place.

But... reality is reality.

This is an example I used a while back. There is a history of military force being used against unorganized militants, targeting civilians.

It's as old as history itself...

Carthago delenda est.

(Carthage must die)

And one must see the situation from the rest of the world's eyes.

Half the planet sees the IDF acting like Hitlers SS after Czech partisans executed Reinhard Heydrich in Prague in 1942.

The SS killed thousands in reprisals, allegedly hunting down other partisans and their supporters.

Entire villages were leveled with every citizen murdered.

Of course, it's not an apt comparison because Hamas started it and the IDF isn't the SS... but half the planet thinks it is.

Don't get me wrong... there's no easy solution. But everything Bibi does must be balanced by the words of the UN.

Otherwise, what good is the UN if Israel and the USA (Iraq v2.0, 2003-2011) can run rough shod over countries with no opposition?

[questionseverything]

42. Is Hamas really starting it when Palestinians are regularly rounded up and imprisoned with no trial, no evidence?

[WarGamer]

43. The terrorist attack was nearly unprecedented...

And all the shitty things the Israelis have done to the Palestinians isn't an excuse justifying a terrorist attack.

Having said that... events don't happen in a vacuum.

[questionseverything]

45. I'm not trying to justify anything but

If some group came to my home and used violence to make me leave and repeated that kind of thing against my neighbors and friends for decades ….

Imprisoned our youth when they tried to fight back

And i knew that the leaders of these oppressivers hope was to take all of our land

I surely would not believe,”we started it”

[TexasDem69]

57. So it's Israel's fault

That Hamas killed more than 1,000 civilians, murdered children in their beds, and raped and mutilated Israeli women?

And you’d rape and mutilate men and women and kill children in their beds? That seems extreme

[TexasDem69]

54. Yes

Hamas is really starting it. Shocked that you even think that’s debatable.

[Arazi]

37. Hamas has deliberately chosen to put the kiddos in front of themselves

It’s an urban war zone, the battlefront is entirely of Hamas’ choosing.

Israel is waging war after being attacked. Any nation would do the same and justifiably so. These casualty numbers, while horrific, aren’t even near the same level as other recent conflicts yet only Israel gets singled out.

This is what war looks like. Every war, and especially urban warfare

[WarGamer]

39. Oh I see...

They should fight Revolutionary War style... by gathering in a big field and marching across the wheat fields in line? With drums and flutes singing?

That hasn't happened in a loooong time.

And is it a compliment to say that the IDF is waging a similar war to the Soviets in the Battle of Berlin?

Where German citizens literally had NO WHERE to run to...

[Arazi]

40. Israel gave notice to civilians to move south

They tried to clear a battle zone north of the Wadi. Hamas bombed and shot those trying to get out of the way.

Or how about letting the civilians shelter in the fucking tunnels?

Or maybe stop shooting rockets from on top of occupied apartment complexes or hospitals?

The civilian deaths are on Hamas

[TheKentuckian]

53. Then stop whining about casualties

If you are going to defend launching massacres and sending rape and mutilation gangs to rampage then scurrying off to hide behind women and children as some fucked up moral defense shield against consequences for depravity then don't fucking dare cry about what absolutely must happen when that shit is rightfully put down.

[Mosby]

26. Why should they believe KSA?

And having them acknowledge that Israel exists as some sort of inducement seems almost silly.

Are they going to support PA troops in Gaza? Please.

Why is anyone even talking about a Palestinian country?

Where did this weird calculus come from where terrorism is rewarded with an independent country?

[TexasDem69]

30. Theres a whole lot of important details missing

Establish a Palestinian state where? Would Hamas still govern that state?

Here’s a thought—Hamas surrenders all the rapists and murderers who participated in or planned the October 7 atrocities and releases all the civilian hostages seized during those reprehensible attacks and in exchange Israel will cease current military operations on Gaza. That seems fair, no?

[TheKentuckian]

41. How is it a peace proposal when no peace is proposed?

Hamas, Hezbollah, and friends as you were and carry on until it is possibly hoped that one sunny day support for them will weaken.

That peace is a lie and makes lie to the concept.

[GuppyGal]

50. What date did this happen? Regardless, Netanyahu is gonna have to get the fuck out of the way. nt

[roamer65]

62. Nutanyahoo needs to be removed from office.

By any means necessary.