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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan someone please tell me when Biden was anointed King of Israel?
And therefore personally responsible for anything Israel does or does not do?
I must have missed that event, so if someone could point me to that documentation, I would be much obliged.
TIA
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nocoincidences
(2,489 posts)JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)he won’t, blame him I suspect
They do not seem to appreciate how complicated the situation is, and the consequences if he did that.
Hell, it would make the withdrawal of Afghanistan nothing compared to that.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...briefly explaining what complications you believe would arise from setting conditions on the military aid that the U.S. supplies to Isreal?
(This is a sincere question and is not intended to be argumentative.)
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)introduced something similar. It was widely voted down. The resolution widely lost;
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/01/16/politics/senate-rejects-sanders-resolution/index.html
Cutting off aid to an ally during hostilities would hurt us in the upcoming election. While many are troubled with what is happening to civilians in Gaza, cutting off aid to Israel would be a losing issue.
LeftRightLeft
(23 posts)Hmmm, what to do? What. to. do....?
Arazi
(8,887 posts)Who can pull it off. But he has to win to pull it off
#Traitor will give Netanyahu and Likud everything and watch the IDF kill 2 million Palestinians with sadistic glee. There will never be peace if Netanyahu and #Traitor get the chance to work together. We’re currently Gaza’s top humanitarian aid supplier. That will stop with #Traitor.
Whatever you think is happening with Biden’s efforts on the I/P conflict, I guarantee you there’s a shit ton of diplomacy happening
And it’s not a genocide. Stop the fucking Kremlin propaganda
LeftRightLeft
(23 posts)Arazi
(8,887 posts)And Israel has been unjustly targeted for international criticism since its inception. They get U.N. resolutions instigated by Syria or other “human rights paragons” 
It’s lost all meaning.
They truly don’t give a shit anymore. Anything they do will trigger criticism.
They’re going to finish their military objective of destroying Hamas no matter what manufactured outrage is ginned up by Kremlin propaganda
LeftRightLeft
(23 posts)Israeli "truly doesn't give a [crap]."
No amount of innocent lives lost will hinder them from their "military objective."
Everyone in the world sees this for what it is.
JustAnotherGen
(38,054 posts)Everyone in the world sees this for what it is.
What is it?
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)South Africa's genocide accusation against Israel has placed further strain on an already frayed relationship with the U.S. and could have serious diplomatic ramifications.
The International Court of Justice, the U.N.'s highest legal body, will this week hear a case brought by South Africa that accuses Israel of committing genocide against Palestinian people during the assault on the Gaza Strip. The suit also seeks an emergency suspension of the military campaign.
U.S. National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby last week called the lawsuit "meritless, counterproductive, and completely without any basis in fact whatsoever," while Israel has rejected it as "blood libel."
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/09/us-slams-south-africas-meritless-israel-genocide-suit.html
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)The German government sharply rejected on Friday allegations before the UN’s top court that Israel is committing “genocide” in Gaza and warned against “political instrumentalization” of the charge, as it announced it would intervene as a third party before the International Court of Justice.
Government spokesman Steffen Hebestreit said in a statement that Israel was “defending itself” after the “inhuman” onslaught by Hamas on October 7.
He said Germany would intervene as a third party before the International Court of Justice under an article allowing states to seek clarification on the use of a multilateral convention.The move allows Germany to present its own case to the court that Israel has not infringed the genocide convention and has not committed or intended to commit genocide.
snip-------------------------------------
“In light of German history and the crimes against humanity of the Shoah, the German government is particularly committed to the [UN] Genocide Convention,” signed in 1948 in the wake of the Holocaust, Hebestreit said. He said the Convention marked a “central instrument” under international law to prevent another Holocaust.
For this reason, he said, “we stand firmly against a political instrumentalization of the Convention”.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/germany-says-will-intervene-at-the-hague-on-israels-behalf-blasts-genocide-charge/
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)Well, that was a very impressive and dignified response by Israel. The confidence we had coming out of yesterday’s hearing has pretty much evaporated. It does appear that SA’s case was light on hard evidence.
The evidence of genocidal intent in the form of statements by leaders is much less impactful when placed in context and countered with other statements, orders and directives requiring the Israeli military to respect the rules of war. We missed Israel’s humanitarian initiatives.
snip---------------------------------------
Our claim for provisional measures and in particular for an order halting Israel’s offensive, now appears to be a serious overreach. Israel cannot be ordered to stop its legitimate war against Hamas, especially in circumstances where Hamas will continue its attacks on Israel.
We were embarrassed by our government’s failure to engage properly with Israel before filing the dispute and by our hosting Hamas’ leadership in SA three weeks after that organisation’s indisputably genocidal attack on Israel on 7 October. We need to choose our friends better.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1745783066386165951.html
lapucelle
(21,061 posts) 
Cha
(319,079 posts)JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)the Hamas charter calls for the death of all Jews.
LeftRightLeft
(23 posts)What do you think he means by that?
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)was coined by Nasser prior to the 1967, when he united with all the Arab countries to destroy Israel
LeftRightLeft
(23 posts)JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)and if Hamas hadn’t done Oct 7th, Netanyahu was on his way to be voted out, something that wouldn’t happen with Hamas
LeftRightLeft
(23 posts)Majority of the Israeli citizens disagree w/him on that?
womanofthehills
(10,988 posts)Horrific videos coming out of Gaza everyday on young people's phones. Biden might lose the youth vote if he doesn't call for ceasefire.
Dorian Gray
(13,850 posts)Which is foolish.
RandomNumbers
(19,156 posts)Right?*
Why would we encourage the stupidity of thinking that? **
(and by Trump I also mean ANY Republican likely to take his place, should something take him out of the mix before the election)
* I sure as hell hope no one needs to see a sarcasm tag on my subject line. But if needed, consider this it.
** yes it is encouragement of stupidity, any time the answer to it fails to forcefully acknowledge the complexity and the FACTS that Biden must deal with - and that there is no remotely likely option who would do anything better in his position. And let's not forget to educate the politically naive that voting third party in the general election, or vocally supporting an alternative to the Democratic nominee, outright supports the Republican candidate. You do it, you own it.
stopdiggin
(15,463 posts)say so in the matter (just as they have had all along)
and the second big point would be potential (some would argue a certainty) of destabilization in the middle east - where almost everyone on the globe (except perhaps the jihadists and Iran)are hopeful that a lid can be kept on.
And there are undoubtedly other considerations as well - but those two jump just off the top of the mind.
I myself am not opposed to the idea of 'conditions' (and frankly think they should have come into play a long ways back) - and yet they haven't been , and it is totally naive to think that such measures could be imposed/enacted, more or less by fiat - and without major implication and consequence. Politically, militarily, socially, diplomatically ...
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...I hadn't realized that the US's support of Israel's military was such an important linchpin in middle-east stability.
I admit I don't know nearly enough about any of that, and honestly don't understand how that can be so, given the numerous difficulties in that area that (I believe) have nothing to do with Israel.
As to the issue of changing our current aid so that it DOES include 'conditions', yes, I see how getting any kind of action on that from rightwing seats would be virtually impossible, as is getting ANY kind of action from them.
Tetrachloride
(9,624 posts)i was told by a few Middle Eastern men about 1-3 years ago that nothing happens in the Middle East without US knowledge if not approval
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Does that apply to Israel also though?
Tetrachloride
(9,624 posts)
Nanjeanne
(6,589 posts)very shortsighted and a wrong use of taxpayer dollars.
Autumn
(48,962 posts)
Coventina
(29,731 posts)I am running into an attitude that Biden is a war criminal because Gaza.
This is in my personal life.
But, wondering if this is somehow a thing I missed.
mn9driver
(4,848 posts)She left the US after the 2004 elections and now lives in Central Europe. In her eyes the US is the great satan, responsible for all of the ills in the world as far as I can tell. She is otherwise very liberal and intelligent
We don’t talk much anymore.
donheld
(21,332 posts)Maybe not all, but the lion's share.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)What country donates the most to world hunger?
The United States is the largest bilateral (individual country) donor of international food assistance.
betsuni
(29,078 posts)No difference between parties. Spent too much time debunking all the BS. Like some religions, guess it's comforting to have simple Good vs Evil ideas about everything, no thinking.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)the history of the world.
NickB79
(20,356 posts)Because without US support, Russia would have swallowed Ukraine a year ago and be eying Central Europe right now.
But I'm sure Putin will be SOOOO much better than the US
Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)But thanks for admitting that the op is a strawman argument.
RockRaven
(19,375 posts)party with resources that they then use to do things, one invites attributions of responsibility for whatever it is they end up doing.
If the attributions of responsibility are a problem, at least they are predictable and avoidable -- if one so chooses.
Coventina
(29,731 posts)They buy stuff from US manufacturers.
Biden doesn't decide how much or how it is used.
The closest involvement is that the military will tell the US manufacturer if xxx product is OK to sell to others than themselves.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)From: https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the-us-give-to-israel
Israel received the second-largest amount of US aid in 2022 after Ukraine, where the US committed $12.4 billion. The two countries received 4.8% and 18.1%, respectively, of all foreign aid granted that year.
Autumn
(48,962 posts)oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)And a lot of it they spend right back here anyway.
FHRRK
(1,410 posts)No issue in cutting it off then!
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)They're the only country in the Middle East that have actual free elections. They deserve to be supported by the country who is SUPPOSED to be the beacon of freedom even with a lurking trump
FHRRK
(1,410 posts)That the democracy of Israel needs to be supported.
I do not agree with the sentiment that billions is peanuts and the US should basically shut the fuck up and don’t criticize Bibi’s anti democracy actions,
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)lapucelle
(21,061 posts)and give a broader perspective? Your link cites ForeignAssistance.gov as the source of its data.
There are lots of interesting data on the .gov website that give a broader perspective.
--------------------------------------------------------
US aid to Gaza and the West Bank in 2023: $280 million
--------------------------------------------------------
US aid to Egypt, Lebanon, Kuwait, Qatar, Syria, and Yemen (combined) in 2023: $3.3 billion
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...we gave soooo much more to Israel than other places in that region.
But you raise a good point, if we're giving to both sides than our support of either side would be the same if stop giving to both.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)so I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised by the amount of support that the US gives Israel.
The real question is what have the governments of the West Bank and Gaza been doing with the billions of dollars in US aid that they have received in the past 10 years?
From the primary source for your secondary source:
2013 $1 billion
2014 $500 million
2015 $560 million
2016 $420 million
2017 $400 million
2018 $88 million
2019 $29 million
2020 $18 million
2021 $120 million
2022 $150 million
2023 $280 million
https://www.foreignassistance.gov/
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...we know Israel spends the vast majority of our 'military' aid on weaponry and war stuff, and that's just small fraction of the IDF's expenditures, but what DID Gaza and the West Bank do with our 'humanitarian' aid money?
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-us-aid-projects-c294bf02cc3249421c181832c9d92c74
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)Five US-funded youth facilities?
What about the rest of the money?
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...go a bit overboard with sports things.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)... that sounds like isolationism. It's a somewhat Trumpian approach to foreign policy. It's certainly not what Democratic administrations do.
In his desperation to restore and showcase American strength, Donald Trump has made the country weaker.
It took only three and a half years for Donald Trump to solidify and formalize the United States’ comprehensive international isolation. In August, the Trump administration demanded the extension of restrictions against Iran for breaking the terms of a nuclear deal that Trump himself had withdrawn from. All but one of the other members of the United Nations Security Council voted against the move or abstained—including every other permanent member of the body. “America First” had, effectively, become America alone.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/10/donald-trump-foreign-policy-america-first/616872/
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...after all, the funds we give to Israel is "Military Aid" and the funds we give to Palestine is "Humanitarian Aid", 2 very different things.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)As to how the aid to Gaza is characterized in the abstract and how it actually winds up being spent in the real world, it's a bit difficult to reconcile the fact we give so much aid, yet Gaza is frequently referred to as an "open air prison".
Besides the 6 US funded sports/youth facilities, where did all the money go?
Who is stealing humanitarian funds from the people of Gaza?
Extra Credit
Why are there no protests against the thieves stealing money from Palestinians?
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)In any case, I'm glad that we have established for Coventina that yes, the U.S does give Israel unconditional aid.
lapucelle
(21,061 posts)When folks don't understand something they've read, good advice is to keep re-reading. They might eventually understand the points and/or ideas being expressed.
Your assertion that "we have established something" is frankly bewildering, especially given what follows.
I'm not party to anyone else's flaw in reasoning (equivocation fallacy) in the thread, least of all yours.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Autumn
(48,962 posts)When did U.S. aid to Israel start?
The U.S. has been giving aid to Israel since 1948, when it became a state.
U.S. aid to Israel has largely been direct giving (also called bilateral aid), for three goals:
https://globalaffairs.org/bluemarble/how-much-financial-assistance-has-us-given-israel
Economic: aid that is meant to improve a country’s industry to meet “near-term political, economic and development needs,” according to the U.S. State Department
Missile defense: money approved by Congress for U.S.-Israel missile defense programs, where “Israel and the United States each contribute financially to several weapons systems and engage in co-development, co-production, and/or technology sharing in connection with them.”
In total, the U.S. has given Israel “$318 billion since the end of World War II,” according to PolitiFact. It’s given the Palestinian territories more than $11 billion since 1950.
How has U.S. aid changed?
In the first few decades of U.S. aid to Israel, the amounts were "relatively small.” From 1949 to 1973, the U.S. gave Israel a total of $3.1 billion – $700 million less than it receives annually under a 2016 Memorandum of Understanding between the U.S. and Israel.
Between 1970 and 1979, the U.S. gave Israel a total of $16.3 billion.
Israel initially “received significant economic and humanitarian aid along with military aid. However, as Israel has become wealthier, the U.S. has dramatically reduced its economic and humanitarian aid, while continuing its military aid,” according to PolitiFact.
How wealthy is Israel?
In 2020, Israel was among the “top 20 economies in the world” based on its per capita GDP. That year, Israel’s GDP per capita – a country’s total value of goods and services produced divided by the total population – was $52,200. By comparison, Canada’s GDP per capita was $52,400 and the U.S.’ was around $70,200.
Arazi
(8,887 posts)We can’t replicate that. Americans can’t pass as Arabs whereas many Israelis ARE Arab.
While our financial aid began as a gesture to support a fledgling democracy, our relationship and the $$ are now almost entirely transactional.
Israel provides a massive amount of intelligence for us. No way will the US end that deal.
We could make the military support conditional (such as removing Netanyahu) and I agree with doing that. Israel doesn’t actually need our military aid and Joe Biden could score easy points with the naive TikTok gullibles by making the aid conditional
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...that were completely blind to Oct 6?
Arazi
(8,887 posts)I predict a veritable storm of LIHOP vs MIHOP. posts regarding 10-7 in the coming years.
Gonna be as much fun there as it was here 😬
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...there does seem to be quite a few similarities...
Arazi
(8,887 posts)And botched response.
Biden and Blinken warned Netanyahu against initiating a bombing campaign response. They didn’t listen anymore than we did.
Awful
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)
malaise
(296,114 posts)Rec
betsuni
(29,078 posts)
Deep State Witch
(12,717 posts)And can wave his wand and say the magic word "ceasefire" and Netanyahu will stop the bombing.
mcar
(46,058 posts)stopdiggin
(15,463 posts)without first checking it out with the U.S. Right?
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ismnotwasm
(42,674 posts)Specifically, they were saying they would not vote for Biden, and that they considered him a war criminal. The sheer stupidity, of otherwise well-meaning and passionate people is scary as shit
SoFlaBro
(3,790 posts)JI7
(93,617 posts)it's things like that which show me they are pro Hamas.
SoFlaBro
(3,790 posts)agingdem
(8,849 posts)in bullshit "righteousness"...
SoFlaBro
(3,790 posts)Palestinians. Then they started screaming the N-word at allied blacks and beating up black women. That is when I realized it had nothing to do with color or race. It was merely an anti-Semitic movement looking for lockstep allies and would quickly turn on them if questioned in even the slightest manner.
Call them what you want. White. Israeli. European-roots. I'm with them because they have a plan for inclusion of Palestinians and dignity for Palestinians once they get fucking Likud and that goddamn Benjamin out of the way.
vercetti2021
(10,481 posts)100% these fucking idiots are just those kind of people that will jump from one cause the next because some bullshit on the internet told them to do so
cachukis
(3,937 posts)Those treaties are now part of the US Constitution.
Biden has no choice but to enforce them.
Article II, section 2.
In fact, treaties can be superior to the Constitution.
He is forced to be delicate.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...Indigenous Americans carried so much weight.
Celerity
(54,409 posts)you said:
Those treaties are now part of the US Constitution.
There are NO treaties with Israel in the US Constitution.
you said:
No they are not. Treaty power is bounded by Constitutional limitations. By the Supremacy Clause, both statutes and treaties 'are declared . . . to be the supreme law of the land, and no superior efficacy is given to either over the other.' As statutes may be held void because they contravene the Constitution, it follows that treaties may be held void, the Constitution being superior to both. And indeed the US Supreme Court has numerous times so stated:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Clause
......... the Supreme Court has consistently held that an international accord that is inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution is void, as would be case with any other federal law in conflict with the Constitution. This principle was most clearly established in the 1957 case Reid v. Covert, which held that "no agreement with a foreign nation can confer power on the Congress, or on any other branch of Government, which is free from the restraints of the Constitution". Consequently, the Supreme Court could theoretically rule an Article II treaty unconstitutional and void under domestic law, although it has not yet done so.
cachukis
(3,937 posts)Article II, Section 2, Clause 2:
He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.
All treaties agreed to by the senate become part of the constitution. As you point out, the Supreme Court has consistently ruled that treaties outside of constitutional purview are not acceptable. That does not mean they can't be.
One of the big reasons for Bernie Sanders rejection of the Trans Pacific Partnership was exactly for this reason.
The Supremes could rule a treaty unconstitutional, but has not done so.
I have not read the specifics of the Israeli treaties, but did study the one with Kuwait that justified George H. W. Bush's attack on Iraq.
I believe, after talking to a former member of the State Department, there are treaty provisions that step over the line, but have yet to cause alarm.
I am not aware of them as I don't chase treaties.
The United States, I suspect, uses treaties as they will, just as other countries do.
Perhaps they are temporary guidelines.
Celerity
(54,409 posts)above the Constitution.
The only way to add things to the Constitution is via the Amendment process.
cachukis
(3,937 posts)Constitution. They can be abrogated and removed, but as long as they are in effect, they are considered part of the constitution.
I am not an attorney, but taught a course in law studies, where I learned this interpretation.
I remember the Becker or Blinker consternation where a Senator pushed to have an ammendment of overruling any treaty that didn't stubborn to the Constitution. This was during Eisenhower and post World War II executive authority was worrisome. The bill did not pass.
It seems Biden recognizes the complication of this issue and has kept it out of discussion. We have many treaties. I don't know much about any.
I would suggest you consult with someone more knowledgeable than me on interpretation.
But I remember being surprised to find out how treaties must be upheld as constitutional.
Celerity
(54,409 posts)You said:
NO THEY DO NOT.
Point me to the US Constitutional Amendments (the only means to add/modify to it) that added these treaties to the US Constitution.
Pro tip..... you cannot do so because they do not exist.
You are conflating federal legislation (which treaties are considered) with the Constitution itself.
cachukis
(3,937 posts)Celerity
(54,409 posts)
vercetti2021
(10,481 posts)Like I said last night the far left is no better than the far right. The far right wants fascism and the far left will gladly give it to them on a fucking silver platter over their my conscious purity bullshit...
Eventually these idiots will get bored with Gaza and the whole thing and move on to the next International crisis to bitch about and do nothing about besides going and protest without doing anything actual meaningful to help change things
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)not too different from Trump, wanting to get out of NATO and blaming the U.S. for Russia invading Ukraine
Firestorm49
(4,548 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)
elleng
(141,926 posts)it never happened, of course, re: Joe, even tho he is very good, and MUCH more deserving than Netanyahu.
agingdem
(8,849 posts)Biden can offer an opinion or make a suggestion, maybe place conditions on further aid, but that's as far as it goes...Biden understands Israel did not want this war, did not start this war but Israel will finish this war on it's own terms...
kimbutgar
(27,248 posts)TFG farted…..Biden’s fault
Massive storms ….Bidens fault
I can’t get over how they are blaming him for events that are happening in a country he is not the president of!
comradebillyboy
(10,955 posts)SouthernDem4ever
(6,619 posts)but one thing's for sure, Hamas started it and could have ended it - but they won't. If and when the Palestinians again gain control over the territory, the whole cycle will most likely begin anew.
FloridaBlues
(4,669 posts)With the hard right prime minister they have. Hopefully they will oust him soon.
I hate seeing Biden get dragged down into a war he didn’t want. But BIBI is fighting Biden all the way. Time to withdraw some sending bombs and money to them if they don’t start listening to the US soon.
SocialDemocrat61
(7,647 posts)are purposely distorting reality to slam Biden. If it wasn’t this it would be something else. They spend more time attacking Biden and democrats than Trump and republicans. Plus they refuse to give Biden any credit for what he has accomplished. They are now even attacking Sanders and AOC for supporting Biden.
We’ve heard this tune before, in 2000 and 2016. Both times certain people climbed up on their high horse and helped Bush and Trump become President. They really don’t care about any of the issues that they rant about but just want to feel superior to everyone else.
RandomNumbers
(19,156 posts)I know one or two people in that group. I wish I knew how to reach them. Are they as impervious to logic and reality as Trump supporters?
Bucky
(55,334 posts)Such a godly man... *sigh*
Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)Chainfire
(17,757 posts)he does exert a certain amount of control over the decision making decisions in the U.S. In continuing to supply Israel with munitions, weapons and intelligence, the U.S. is participating in the current war, but without any apparent substantive input on how it is being prosecuted or the future of postwar Gaza.
From NPR: Israel's Netanyahu rejects any Palestinian sovereignty post-war, rebuffing Biden
JANUARY 21, 20244:47 AM ET
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/21/1225883757/israels-netanyahu-rejects-any-palestinian-sovereignty-post-war-rebuffing-biden
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)betsuni
(29,078 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)betsuni
(29,078 posts)In the past? Now?
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)JEEZ.
Our president lauded our US policy that we support Israel unilaterally.
Now, subtlety things have moderated.
betsuni
(29,078 posts)Could you provide a link to Biden saying that please?
EllieBC
(3,639 posts)to get rid of the antisemites?