The intent was that black people were not fully human

[malaise]

We did not count as a full person. That is as racist as anything else.

Eff you Haley.

[Frances]

1. My mother was born in 1917 in Alabama

I remember her saying that when she was a girl, white people debated whether black people had souls

[malaise]

2. Sick racists

Eff Haley - her parents benefitted from the Civil Rights movement - stupid fuck.

[OldBaldy1701E]

21. I was born and raised in North Carolina...

And, I was often disgusted with what some of the rednecks would say. They had no shame nor guilt about their behavior.

Quick story: When I was a senior in high school I asked my friend Andrew if he wanted to come with me to see 'Raider Of The Lost Ark' one evening. He had a twin brother, and he asked if they both could come. Of course. We went to see it and they loved it. (I had already seen it once, but I had a friend who was the assistant manager of this one theatre and he would discount me and my friends.) The next day, and for a while afterwards, I learned that there was some... consternation... from certain civic 'leaders' about this white boy taking these two black people to the theatre. This was in freaking 1981! I am still stunned about it.

I have heard that same discussion. It is just further proof that some people are just not wired to be... reasonable. And, we need to stop worrying about being reasonable to them. They need to be put down. A real progressive society should not allow anyone to be regressive nor repressive.

[unblock]

3. Fully not human. Property.

That was the original intent.

[malaise]

5. True

But remember white women were also property although they were not enslaved.

[hlthe2b]

9. Not technically enslaved, but many were not free and the law saw women as property of husbands.

Given the most extremist RWers today want women to lose the vote--just as they have lost ownership and control over their own bodies and lives, it certainly seems we are not moving much further away from slavery in that context.

[jaxexpat]

20. You get BINGO!

[unblock]

10. Yup, property when married. And no voting rights in any event.

[malaise]

11. Or personal bank accounts

Even their family wealth was stolen but at least they had family. Ours were sold all over.

[getagrip_already]

13. Women of any kind couldn't vote....

So they weren't considered under the "All men are created equal" language as equal to begin with, and as you pointed out, blacks were only 3/5 of a person, so not a man either.

Woman not only couldn't vote, they couldn't own property, or enter into contracts. White woman were only free in the sense that they weren't bought and sold like slaves were.

That was the foundation we started with. Better angels have emerged from time to time, but so have more craven devils. Constant vigilance is the only way to protect gains and continue to advance.

[malaise]

15. You nailed it

She really is a stupid woman

[unblock]

22. The 3/5th compromise wasn't the real problem. Allowing slavery at all was.

Counting them as 3/5th each only served to get more pro-slavery representation in congress,

Had slaves been counted 100%, congress would probably have spread slavery to the entire country. Surely, at least, all new states joining the union.

[Wounded Bear]

40. Slavery was actually still legal in many Northern States, up to and through the Civil War...

It certainly not as prolific as in the South, and Industry really didn't practice it at all, but it was there. It was one of the reasons that the Emancipation Proclamation only affected those areas "currently in rebellion" against the Union.

Missouri, Kentucky, and Maryland-the supposed "border" states, were all slave states, as was Delaware.

Racism was also rampant in the North, against blacks and, of course, Natives.

[unblock]

42. All true.

[keithbvadu2]

26. Still considered property by republicans

Madison Cawthorn publicly referred to women as "Earthen vessels, sanctified by Almighty God"

https://democraticunderground.com/100216110827

You know::::: property

[Model35mech]

7. Yes, property, not to be fully enumerated in a census

because counting them as whole persons pushed representation higher in the House of Representatives and power struggle for political control has always been a part of American political life.

[unblock]

16. Counting them at all only benefited the slave states.

Early on, the issue was whether to count slaves for purposes of per-person taxes. The north wanted to count slaves, the south didn't.

Then the issue was whether to count slaves for purposes of representation in congress. Suddenly, the south wanted to fully count slaves, and the north didn't.

And of course, black people were not allowed in any of those negotiations....

[Model35mech]

19. True, and states with few slaves didn't want that

Ancestors on my mothers side held 2 slaves in Manhattan.
New York banned slavery in 1799.

that same ancestral line also includes an abolishonist minister in New Jersey who passed fugitives along to the underground railroad's Boonton Station,

[erronis]

34. That is the gist of their argument. No fine points about it. Thanks.

[cbabe]

4. To understand Haley: How Indian immigrants benefited from

immigration policies due to US civil rights.

How ‘model’ Asians are taught to aspire to whiteness while abhorring blacks.

Highly recommend this book. Also excellent easy to read prose.

https://www.goodreads.com › book › show › 60371066-white-women
White Women: Everything You Already Know About Your Own… - Goodreads

4.48 2,783 ratings478 reviews A no-holds-barred guidebook aimed at white women who want to stop being nice and start

[malaise]

12. Thanks

[Girard442]

6. If you're referring to the 3/5ths Compromise, it was actually worse.

...the 3/5ths Compromise was only for the purpose of giving more representation to white people. For any other purpose , peoples of color were considered to be no human at all.

[malaise]

8. Precisely

Should have been explicit

[LiberalFighter]

14. It's a shame we can't have votes of Republicans count only as 3/5ths.

[unblock]

23. In fact, they generally count more than democrats

Owing to the small state bias in senate representation and the electoral college.

[BaronChocula]

17. Listening to Haley

try to explain her comments that America was never a racist country is like watching an elephant try to dance on top of a flagpole.

[BonnieJW]

27. Whoopi Goldberg said it best.

All those black people didn't climb into trees and lynch themselves.

[BaronChocula]

39. I saw that she said that

And while she's said some weird shit now and then, she was spot on with that remark.

[malaise]

29. Perfect

😀😀

[cbabe]

18. The Massive, Overlooked Role of Female Slave Owners It's estimated that 40 percent of slave owners may have been white w

https://www.history.com/news/white-women-slaveowners-they-were-her-property

The Massive, Overlooked Role of Female Slave Owners

It's estimated that 40 percent of slave owners may have been white women.

BY: BECKY LITTLE
PUBLISHED: MARCH 12, 2019

Most Americans know that George Washington owned enslaved people at his Mount Vernon home. But fewer probably know that it was his wife, Martha, who dramatically increased the enslaved population there. When they wed in 1759, George may have owned around 18 people. Martha, one of the richest women in Virginia, owned 84.

The high number of people Martha Washington owned is unusual, but the fact that she owned them is not. Stephanie E. Jones-Rogers, a history professor at the University of California-Berkeley, is compiling data on just how many white women owned slaves in the U.S.; and in the parts of the 1850 and 1860 census data she’s studied so far, white women make up about 40 percents of all slave owners.

Slaveholding parents “typically gave their daughters more enslaved people than land,” says Jones-Rogers, whose book They Were Her Property: White Women as Slave Owners in the American South came out in February 2019. “What this means is that their very identities as white southern women are tied to the actual or the possible ownership of other people.”

White women were active and violent participants in the slave market. They bought, sold, managed and sought the return of enslaved people, in whom they had a vested economic interest. Owning a large number of enslaved people made a woman a better marriage prospect. Once married, white women fought in courts to preserve their legal ownership over enslaved people (as opposed to their husband’s ownership), and often won. “For them, slavery was their freedom,” Jones-Rogers observes in her book.

They Were Her Property upends a lot of older scholarship. For example, previous scholars have argued that …

[Farmer-Rick]

24. Wow the Southern Belle was pretty raunchy and gross

I never knew they set up the rape of their female slaves in order to have wet nurses for their white babies.

They were a disgusting bunch and beat their slaves from childhood on.

Then they wrote books pretending they didn't join in on the abuse. Lying liars like the writer of Gone With the Wind.

[GiqueCee]

25. So, Nikki...

... do you think that India was never a country corrupted by its caste system? Or did Untouchables somehow benefit from such obscene discrimination? Racism is in your DNA, so it would probably be a good idea to STFU, instead of trying to defend unspeakably evil bigotry.

Black people were the first true humans, so they are, by definition, the most highly evolved. And every human on Earth has Black ancestors in their distant past. Europeans evolved lighter skin to be able to absorb enough vitamin D from sunlight. That, in no way, confers intrinsic superiority on them.

You are a mealy-mouthed liar, Ms Haley, and you do not deserve the high office you seek.

[cilla4progress]

28. Two things

I had lovely Black friend in college in the PoliSci dept.

She and I went on a one-week trip with other students to DC one Spring break - college-sponsored. She and I housed together at an alumnus' home. She shared with me her anxiety over whether she would be rejected or mistreated as a Black person, by this alumnus!

And a MAGAT neighbor has a FB post saying Blacks aren't citizens since they were emancipated not "naturalized."

I can't fully express my reactions here....

[malaise]

30. Please tell Nikki

[cilla4progress]

35. Yah...

I just remembered about my fellow student...

😡😢

[Warpy]

31. Women are even less than that

Young women now have fewer rights than the dead.

[sop]

32. Nikki might be surprised how women of her ethnicity are viewed by the same MAGA morons she is

pandering to with her "America has never been a racist country" bullshit. Trump's Bund Rally mobs have recently started screaming "bird brain" whenever her name is brought up, it won't be long before the vicious racial and gender ad hominems begin.

[CTyankee]

36. I believe it. There is no bottom to their racist venom.

[surfered]

33. White men make up 30% of the population...

…but hold 62% of the offices of Congress and State legislatures (per 2021 stats)

[aggiesal]

37. A lot of laws in this country were based on racism against blacks ...

Being the educated forum that is DU, I'm sure most know about the Peachtree laws in Georgia.
If you don't, basically, Georgia passed a law that says Black people can not own or operate any business on any street, road or ... named Peachtree.

So streets named Peachtree suddenly popped up all across Georgia.

I bought 5 acres of land in New Mexico back in the mid 80's.
They wanted to name the street Peachtree and I asked to have it changed.
No such luck.

[malaise]

38. I did not know this

I bet neither does Haley

[Skittles]

41. my mum lived in America for decades with a green card

no one EVER told her to "go back to where she came from". Why? Because she was WHITE! Nikki Haley IS FULL OF SHIT, SHAME ON HER!