Trump did not win the election in 2016

[Beachnutt]

He cheated and took the 2016 election.
He lost the 2020 election and tried to steal it.
Why do folks think he can win this time ?
What is the republican plan to steal the election this time ?

[Think. Again.]

1. This right here...

"What is the republican plan to steal the election this time ?"

[ancianita]

32. Their only plan: Battleground electors. Through bought votes by Koch's right wing billionaire network.

[Think. Again.]

59. Well, and...

... gerrymandering, voting suppression (which itself includes a LOT of different tactics), voter intimidation, etc., etc....

I agree they plan to screw with Electors, and probably try to screw with the certification again, but I don't agree that's their only plan.

This election is just as important to them, who will not bound themslves by law or ethics, as it is to us, who will.

[ancianita]

69. I hear you. I just think that the other suppression plans are the means to get to accomplish the right wing's elector

plan. That's why I used only.

Whether or not their henchmen will obstruct again is on them; this time the DOJ will be watching.
But the 12th Amendment clearly won't let them screw with the certification again. It's possible there could be an elector tie, but not probable.

Right now the 2020 fake electors are being adjudicated at state levels, and at the federal level
through Jack Smith's Count 4: 18 U.S.C. $ 241 (Conspiracy Against Rights) in THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. DONALD J. TRUMP.

That case will go to trial this year, probably no later than April or May, and will finish in 20 days, according to Jack Smith. The 6th Amendment is Smith's backup for a speedy trial.
A verdict and sentencing will be by June, early July, then Trump's appeal hits right before the RNC's July convention.

Call me an optimistic realist.

[Think. Again.]

71. Good points.

You're right, it does all lead up to screwing with the electoral vote somehow.

Unless they've got some other big heist in the works. Or many.

[ancianita]

76. ...

I'm not a fan of giving them credit for brains.
We've seen how both ignorant and stupid they are, and how even those they consider smart are lawless. 2024 won't have the shenanigans and violence of 2020.

They're decimated; they've only got Koch's people to tell them what to do. And even those moneyed people don't know the extent to which they're being monitored.
Otherwise, on their own, these rethugs got nothing.

Their fight or flight behavior will be for the sake of avoiding aiding/abetting and accessories after the fact charges. Which are coming. Which is why there's been a higher than usual resignation rate.

[Think. Again.]

79. I DO like your optimism!

...to be honest, I guess I'm just frightened.

[mahina]

52. We don't know yet but count on it he is getting all the help billionaires, Putin, Iran, North Korea can buy.

This is the fight of our lives. Again.

[Rhiannon12866]

2. Exactly! How soon we forget - and I'm referring to the media

[brooklynite]

3. How did he cheat?

[Beachnutt]

7. Russian help

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

[yardwork]

11. Trump definitely had Russian help, but that's not really "stealing" an election.

The Supreme Court handed an election to W in 2000, and I'm still dubious about whether W actually won in 2004 - but I think Trump actually got the votes in 2016. Was it cheating to use Russian trolls to promote lies to convince people not to support Clinton? This is the world we live in now.

Your main point is that he'll cheat again this year, any way he can.

[boston bean]

14. Cheating can be stealing.

I know what you are saying. But I think if cheating or breaking law to win, it is stealing.

[yardwork]

15. No doubt that Trump cheats, lies, and steals.

[brooklynite]

26. Which isn't cheating...

...Falsehoods about candidates have been circulated in every election the United Stated has had. If voters choose to believe them, and vote accordingly, its not "cheating".

[Celerity]

37. agree

[triron]

96. You think Putin left it up to voter whim?

What planet were you living on?

[brooklynite]

97. Please elaborate...

...were the Trump voters blackmailed? Were the voting machines rigged? I need to know which conspiracy theory you're proposing.

[czarjak]

38. Vlad watched Rove & W.

The Donald's refrain of "It's rigged, folks." was spot on. Made cheating by proxy easy-peasy. Russia's been listening since forever. Almost everybody knows that.

[dpibel]

43. That thing about foreign contributions

I'm thinking they're kind of, y'know, illegal.

Unless you'd like to argue that the work of Russian troll farms is not something of value.

Or perhaps you'll argue that doing something illegal is not, in fact, cheating.

I know you can straighten me out.

[WarGamer]

62. Frankly it happens every year...

This report from 2020 says Russia and Iran BOTH made efforts to affect the election...

Russia towards Trump and Iran against Trump.

Was 2020 a cheated election according to the logic of the OP?

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/ICA-declass-16MAR21.pdf

[dpibel]

65. Yeah?

The fact that the cheating didn't work doesn't actually change the definition, does it?

Jeez, dude.

Hand on the tiller!

[Walleye]

4. Well Putin has a lot riding on this election

[Silent Type]

5. Think he won in 2016, primarily because some Democrats decided to protest their guy losing primaries.

Not to mention, Democrats pounding Obama and Clinton over trade agreements right up to election.

There is little value in sounding like GOPers claiming we won the election in 2016.

There is great value in beating trump in 2024.

[Pacifist Patriot]

23. He won with the votes. But too many of those votes...

Were victims of Russian social media GRU ops.

[Polybius]

72. If someone is that stupid and gullible to believe false Facebook fake news stories...

Then they weren't going to vote for us anyway.

[Pacifist Patriot]

91. Not necessarily. My elderly neighbors were lifelong democrats until they fell for a combo of...

Facebook crap and Fox News. The latter I remain convinced serves as a Russian mouthpiece when ordered to do so. It's nice to think we're immune to propaganda, but even the smartest people on the planet can get sucked in. We can never let our guard down.

[niyad]

86. Hillary got THREE MILLION more votes than TRAITOR**.

[Pacifist Patriot]

90. Which is why I loathe the EC and would dearly love to see it go the way of the dinosaurs.

[Doc Sportello]

56. What value is there in refighting the 2016 primary?

There is debate about how dump won but Gary Johnson got way more votes in Michigan than Stein, etc. so that state wouldn't have gone to her. I've seen a lot of this blaming the hated "left" for 2016 here lately and wonder what good does it to do to rehash it, even apart from the fact it is a highly debatable claim. There is great value in beating dump this year. Starting pointless intra-party fights over 2016 is not the way to do it.

[Silent Type]

57. Why debate 2016 period? It's over and we beat ourselves.

[Doc Sportello]

63. You're the one who started the blame game

Your own words: "he won in 2016, primarily because some Democrats decided to protest their guy losing primaries"

Not only is that refighting the 2016 primary but it is also wrong analysis.

And again, isn't it better to get as many people as possible to vote for Biden? But you would rather blame some who might vote for Biden in 2024. Just pointless. It is 2024. Let's come together.

[Silent Type]

74. I was responding to OP. How did I blame any voter for 2024. Doc, think you misinterpreted.

[Doc Sportello]

85. OP said NOTHING about blaming. You did, however

Again, here are YOUR own words, nothing misinterpreted here:
"Think he won in 2016, primarily because some Democrats decided to protest their guy losing primaries.

Not to mention, Democrats pounding Obama and Clinton over trade agreements right up to election."

Those are your words, not the OPs and nothing misinterpreted. The bolded part shows that and it' dishonest not to admit it. I wish you and others would stop with this refighting the 2016 primary. It's EIGHT YEARS ago. If you really want Biden to win, stop with the blame game and welcome all who chose wrong back in the fold.

[betsuni]

70. Ridiculous the way the TPP was mindlessly believed to be President Obama's diabolical plot to

screw American workers but nobody bothered to actually find out what the hell it was, and blaming '90s trade deals (Bill Clinton's diabolical plot to screw the American workers) for forcing nice innocent corporations to move their manufacturing abroad and ruin all the white male working class swing voters (who are not at all, like, racist or anything, it's economic anxiety caused by Democrats ignoring them that makes them vote for Republicans) lives. Blame Democrats!

One thing good about Andrew Yang running for president is that he reminded everyone that automation is the leading cause of loss of manufacturing jobs.

[TexasDem69]

6. How exactly did Trump cheat and steal the 2016 election

I haven’t seen any legitimate Democrat take this position. Ultimately Democrats didn’t turn out in key states and Trump’s voters did. That trend reversed in 2020, and hopefully Democrats will turn out in 2024. Because Trump’s supporters are most definitely going to turn out.

[groundloop]

10. Russian money, social media disinformation, voter suppression.......

It all added up to 45* eeking out an electoral vote victory (despite the fact that 66 million votes is more than 63 million votes).

[TexasDem69]

28. Doesn't matter if Hillary got more total votes

We’ve had the same process for electing a President for 200+ years. Hillary knew this, the voters knew this, and the voters elected Trump.

[SouthernDem4ever]

40. With all due respect

I don't think enough voters knew or still know this.

[TexasDem69]

44. Voters should know this

And if they don’t it is only the fault of the voter.

[SouthernDem4ever]

45. No argument here.

[Igel]

17. At least one prominent (D) called his presidency "illegitimate".

And the "Russian disinformation" idea was rampant.

I figure that every (R) win since before I was on DU has upped the ante. "Selected, not elected" and "*".

"Red shift" in 2004, where the exit polls were all good but "black box voting flipped" votes from (D) to (R)--causing a lot of pizza deliveries on DU.

Obama won in 2008, so suddenly BBV was sacred. And in 2012. But in 2016 ... "Russian disinformation."

Now, post election some academics did, you know, actual research. When voters were asked if they'd heard various bits of Russian disinformation, they could no more identity Russian disinformation than researcher produced distractors. So, no, they didn't remember it.

Another found that social media directed troll-bot posts to accounts of those already firmly in Trump's pocket. Oooh ... The Russkies convinced Trump voters to be, well, um, Trump voters.

Even worse, a clear majority of the "accounts of those already firmly in Trump's pocket" turned out to be ... wait for it ... troll-bots.

Remember, that analysis that was widely quoted was widely misquoted: The primary goal was to sow dissent, Trump was #3 on the list and a late entry. Now, did Russia sow dissent?

Clearly not. Just look at how American politics from mid 2016 to the present has completely ignored, instead of being riven and fractured, by what Russian did. Let it create division, you're working to further Russia's Job #1.

[TexasDem69]

25. Which prominent Democrat?

[triron]

49. Jimmy Carter for one.

Actually I believe Carter didn't think that Trump won the election, period.

[TexasDem69]

54. Cool any link to that?

[triron]

81. Google it.

[czarjak]

41. Lost the popular vote which should reign supreme over an E.C.

[brooklynite]

46. But it doesn't.

Trump won enough States to get 270 TVs,

[czarjak]

50. With Vlad's help.

"Truth isn't truth." Rudy was correct? You're right, The Donald didn't personally cheat, he was a tool for our enemy. Don't call it cheating if it makes you feel especially superior.

[TexasDem69]

55. Why should it reign supreme?

It never has in 200 years of presidential elections.

[czarjak]

58. You have to ask?

[TexasDem69]

61. That's not an answer

We’ve always utilized the electoral college. It’s worked for 200 years and there’s a reason we have it.

[dpibel]

67. What is the reason?

Honest question.

What purpose does the electoral college serve at this point in time?

[czarjak]

80. The Rich White Guy Party utilizes as intended.

Keeping the rich in power. Why are we the only Democracy with an EC?

[triron]

82. Exactly

[MadameButterfly]

53. because Dems, including Obama who had evidence of what Russia was up to

didn't want to look partisan.

Dems know it's useless to complain about something they can't definitively prove and where theire's no process for a re-do. This is why we didn't contest Bush v Gore, which Gore won but for a recount in Florida.

Can you imagine Gore spending 4 years saying "The election was rigged?" Dems just don't do that.

[triron]

83. Maybe they should.

[MadameButterfly]

98. Well, I don't really know what Gore could have done but

we're the ones who've had elections stolen. Can you imagine the Magas denied a single recount in Georgia as happened in FLorida?

Frankly, I think the John Kerry election was stolen (see statistics on likelihood of all the exit polls reversing, secret counting in Ohio late into the night, Diebold servicing the mcahines DURING a recount....) but even Dems looked at me like I was crazy when I mentioned it at the time.

I say the popular vote has gone to Dems in EVERY election since George Bush 1. Imagine the Supreme Court we would have had if the majority ruled. Imagine action on Global Warming. No Iraq. probably Universal Healthcare by now. We'd have a different world.

Something has to be done about it but the White male establishment would rather tear everything down than lose.

[Emile]

8. 2024 will mark 20 years since Republicans last won the popular vote.

[Seeking Serenity]

68. No, 1956 was the last time a R*p*bl*c*n

legitimately won the presidential election.

Sixty-eight years ago. That party should have closed its booth decades ago.

[Polybius]

73. 1984?

1988?

[Seeking Serenity]

75. No, neither one

Ronnie Rest-in-piss cheated to "win" in 1980 (the whole back-channel talks with the Iranians who were holding our people hostage). Since that election was illegitimate, the 1984 "win" was illegitimate in that Alzheimer Ron wouldn't and shouldn't have had the privileged benefit of "incumbency."

Same for 1988. VP Bish was the fruit of the same poisoned tree from 1980.

There is no argument over this. No argument at all. Nineteen fifty-six was the last time one of them has won one legitimately. And no one ever will again.

They are a perpetual minority (and evermore shrinking) party. Why we keep playing with them as if they're our equals is beyond my capacity.

[wiggs]

9. Last time all kinds of dark money from foreign sources PLUS flooding the zone with

false memes and opinions. Plus the usual suppressing of votes on the state level, including causing ridiculous lines in blue-er areas.

Not sure much has changed this time around, except perhaps the NRA won't be one of the dark money middlemen. Maybe wrt social media could be worse with Elon at the helm of Twitter/X.

Plus...I'm more worried about Trump-adjacent foreign leaders letting conflicts happen or causing them in a way that worry US voters...appearance of chaos and all. The GOP has done that at least twice before.

[markodochartaigh]

12. If Trump can't get elected, or electored,

the Republicans have plans to use the 12th amendment. There are several ways and the Republicans have been working on them for several years.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/opinions/gop-blueprint-to-steal-the-2024-election-luttig/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election

[former9thward]

13. What do you know the Democratic National Committee doesn't know?

How exactly did he cheat and steal the election? Why didn't H. Clinton call him on it and challenge the election?

[Warpy]

16. He won't win the popular vote. He might win the elecoral vote

but he's really going to have to work hard at it to do so. It's a long shot, more so than in 2016.

What I'm wondering is what it will take for we the people to rise up and demand fair apportionment in Congress, making it much harder to skew the EC into installing a bad candidate against the will of the American people. Those men have always turned out to be big mistakes and who did a lot of damage. The people knew best, it turns out.

[TexasDem69]

29. Polls consistently show Trump leading in the handful of swing states

That are going to decide the election. If the election is Biden v. Trump then Trump is the clear favorite (at this point).

[Igel]

18. TIA? n/t

[bucolic_frolic]

19. We don't have proof about 2016

But it is pretty safe to say all those rural red counties in PA, MI, WI outperformed in turnout and it went Republican. Where that strategy came from has never been fully explained. Trump spent a lot of time in each of those states, in rural hayseed towns and cities and it paid off. There was little in the way of challenges to the vote count. I doubt we'll ever know what happened.


https://ballotpedia.org/Pivot_Counties:_The_counties_that_voted_Obama-Obama-Trump_from_2008-2016

[TexasDem69]

31. Of course we know!

Trump won because his voters turned out. There’s no mystery and no controversy. Democrats should stop with the my-pillow-guy nonsense.

[bucolic_frolic]

33. What caused the most ignorant never-voters to turn out in droves?

We don't know.

Better organizing? Cash motivated campaign workers? Business/family/church affiliation? Cell phone texting?

[TexasDem69]

34. Trump love.

His supporters literally think he’s the Messiah, and he’s somehow going to save them from poverty

[bucolic_frolic]

36. LOL, yes there is that, and we really don't know why any sane person would do that! /nt

[TexasDem69]

39. I suppose

But Trump got 60 million votes. A few of those folks had to be sane

[LiberalFighter]

20. Don't forget FBI Comey announcing investigation of Hillary Clinton.

[nowforever]

21. James Comey was the cause

Because of his innate insecurity, decided to be courageous, and issued a bogus statement about Hillary's emails just prior to election. Obama should have shut him down, but being weak-kneed himself it never happened.

[Galraedia]

22. Trump won in 2016 because democrats sat out thinking Clinton was already set to win

He still lost the popular vote but even then no one predicted that Trump was going to be as bad as president as he was.

[Bucky]

24. Sadly, a few did. TPM talked about the possibility of Trump locking up reporters

Bill Maher (sorry) was saying from the gitgo Trump wouldn't leave office peacefully. I don't know if I was consistent about it, but I recall telling friends in the winter of 2016-7 that there was a good chance we'd have to end up fighting in some way for democracy. We didn't know what bad things would happen and took too much comfort from the times that institutions like the judiciary stood up to Trump's illegal shenanigans (like the Muslim ban), but I think a lot of people knew his hatred for social and legal norms was gonna be pretty bad for the country.

[peggysue2]

35. There were also Dems (and lots of media outlets) that did nothing but trash talk Hillary Clinton

The propaganda worked, as did James Comey's insufferable press conference just before the election. So many elements played into 2016, yet Hillary Clinton still won the popular vote by nearly 3 million.

I frequently think of all the misery we could have avoided had 2016 turned the other way.

Which is why, of course, our Democracy Coalition is even more important now

Because we know who these people are, what they want as they march behind the most corrupt and vile candidate to ever run for President.

Blue Tsunami 2024/ Biden/Harris All The Way

[betsuni]

77. Considering the unrelenting trashing and demonizing coming from all directions, how media pundits literally

couldn't say anything positive about her without prefacing it with negativity (earlier this year Chuck Todd said about Trump claiming the 2020 election was rigged: Say what you will about Hillary Clinton, at least she didn't do that when she lost -- what the actual fuck), the perfect storm of bullshit no other candidate had seen before and probably won't see again, the election was very close. It was only after she barely lost that everybody had a long list of bullshit of why it was Hillary's personal fault that people voted for Trump or didn't vote, were so stupid about falling for "voting their conscience" and "lesser of two evils." Don't think about party, believe all the demonizing propaganda about personality, like the ones now screaming "Genocide Joe."

[CanonRay]

27. Mile Johnson is Speaker instead of Nancy Pelosi

for starters. Although I think Joe will beat him even worse the 2nd time.

[JoseBalow]

30. When it comes to drumpf, I prefer the term "take office"

That loser never "wins" anything

[BlueTsunami2018]

42. I sat through four years of Hell, that tells me he did indeed win.

And he could win again if we’re not careful.

[Bucky]

47. Let's not be naive about this. Clinton was not a good candidate.

I don't want to relitigate the 2016 primaries, but we did not put our best candidate on the ballot that time.

I voted for Hillary and encouraged others to vote for her. But the Clinton campaign was overconfident and the candidate did not get new voters excited. Democrats have to learn that we win when our nominees get younger voters pumped up (Kennedy, Carter, Clinton, Obama) and don't win when our nominee doesn't (Kerry, Hillary, Gore). That's our X factor, and it's one we've got to get used to since Republican voter demographics are statistically just much more reliable out turning out to vote. I was dating a 20-somthing in 2016 and her whole crowd of friends just loathed Clinton. I thought they were nuts to not fear Trump more, but they just saw her as corrupt. And yes, they mostly felt like shit that November. But those were the very kind of voters a winning Democrat needs to draw in.

And yes, Clinton beat Trump by 3 million, but she didn't run a smart campaign. She focused in the wrong places. She counted on winning some Great Lakes states where she didn't spend much time (including making zero visits to Wisconsin!). I recall reading articles about her campaign limiting her visits to battleground states because they feared a "backfire effect" -- that just by showing up they thought she'd turn off some voters, or motivate the Foxombies to turn out more, and thus result in a net loss of votes. If that's a candidate's problem, that's probably not a candidate you should lean on.

In 2020, cause of the fascism, voter turn-out was WAY up. Overall voter turnout went from 62% in 2016 to 67%. Trump actually improved his performance by 11 million votes (turns out: once Republicans get a taste of fascism, they really like it), and yet Biden beat Trump by more than doubling the 2016 popular margin. He improved on Clinton's performance by more than 15 million votes. Not being Trump was his number 1 appeal. That might be his saving grace this year, but that's not a smart thing to count on, especially when the world's strongest economy and record setting job growth and defeating inflation and passing long overdue popular legislation don't seem to bring up his support.

Underestimating Trump's extreme behaviors and perverse appeals to voters is our Achilles heel. We think that cause it makes no sense to us, it can't make sense to many voters. But hell, look at how deranged Hitler seemed and (and the German economy was vastly improved by 1933 compared to the chaos of the 1912-1923 inflation crisis; things were getting better, but still...) yet he got 33% in a 7-way race and then ended all elections. We can either kvetch about how dumb the voters are or we can meet them where they're at. Hate and divisiveness are simply more effective at winning votes in a jittery insecure society. That's probably why our magic bullet this year seems to be abortion fearmongering instead of my personal preferred argument: "median wage gains are actually outgrowing inflation in the CPI."

We have to fight like hell. Like the tiger who escapes from the zoo and suddenly acquires a taste for human flesh, our Republican friends have decided they want the fascism; or they're still in the "Because I was not a Gypsy" stage. Fox and friends have been pushing them to give up on democracy and even baseline republicanism for over a generation now. They're on their third "President Messiah" in my adult lifetime, so this is more than a problem of "getting past Trumpism." There's another charlatan lurking out in the woods there. The country only gets back on track if we start winning more decisively.

You shouldn't be confident right now. Even though odds are that as things close down toward November, Biden will probably best Trump again. Eking out a victory over the Republicans will not fix the problem. You should be scared.

[niyad]

87. You don't want to relitigate 2016, but you have no problem trashing one of

the smartest, most competent, well-prepared candidates we have had? Got it.

[betsuni]

88. [phone]

[Bucky]

93. Not trashing. Calmly assessing.

I critiqued her campaign tactics, not her character, not her fitness for office.

Politics is a tough game. Unfortunately running for president is more about salesmanship than competence. We can't afford to be thin-skinned about assessing our own strengths and weaknesses.

[niyad]

94. Uh huh

[Bucky]

99. Ask yourself a question

What makes more sense, (1) that I, as a liberal Democrat, would be willing to apply critical thinking about what went wrong in the most consequential election of this century and post it in a forum I've been active in for the last 22 years or (2) that I have lurked in DU for 22 years waiting to maliciously attack someone for unknown reasons and for unknown purposes just to make a few DUers upset?

If all you can muster in response is a snarky little "uh huh" I don't think you're bringing your best to this forum. If you think I'm wrong, tell me what facts I got wrong or what flaws you find in my logic. I'm open to discussion. With Trump ahead in the polls (?!) and a majority of his party apparently zombified, I think it's a good time to talk about how we can avoid the mistakes of the past.

[Ferrets are Cool]

48. I didn't think there was a snowballs chance in HELL he would win in 2016.

America had better not be complacent again.

[J_William_Ryan]

51. The problem is the EC - as it was in 2000 and 2016.

That Republicans are content to gain control of the WH contrary to the will of the majority of voters is further proof of their contempt for democracy.

[betsuni]

64. David Corn:

"Yet Trump was not the fundamental source of the crisis. Nor were the Republican Party, the conservative movement, or the right-wing media that spread Trump's disinformation and joined his war on democracy. The problem was Republicans -- the voters, the people. Not just those few thousand in the January 6 rage-driven mob, but the millions who accepted Trump's reality-free and irrational assertions, who looked to this dissembling, power-mad egoist for the truth. Republican officeholders devoted themselves to Trump because he owned the allegiance of these voters. He had won the Republican masses. His prejudices, his lies, his resentments were theirs. Millions loved Trump for that. Their fervor was the real threat to the nation."

[LetMyPeopleVote]

66. Putin and Comey elected TFG in 2016

[niyad]

78. I remind people that he lost the popular vote by THREE MILLION.

[Botany]

84. And exit polls in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Florida all had

….. HRC winning. Btw Trump lost by 3 million in 2016 and 8 million in 2020 and he is becoming more
toxic every day but if GOP wants to make him their nominee I say go for it. The man is going to be
in some kind of institution in the near future. Does the U.S. have a place for felons with the clap
who sold out America to our enemies?

[Ozzi]

89. PORN STAR COURT CASE (TRUMP DID CHEAT)

People say this is not important but Trump allegedly paid off a porn star to suppress a negative news story. This could have affected enough votes to change the election outcome which set US on this horrible path and which affects beyond USA boundaries to other democracies like where I live. Racism, crime, election cheating, corruption, sleazy trickery etc all increased in many countries. At that time, 2015, maybe enough American voters might have turned from Trump to Hillary. I know this is old news which can't be changed but there is a Court Case Trump is facing and he did cheat. Plus from what I have read, much of your election processes and electoral maps are not done with balanced ethical processes. Right now you are relying on your judicial system and voters to repair the damage. 60% is the magic number in Congress, and that's minority rule, right? Plus Democrats needs much more than 50% to win due to the right wing election functional realities. . A lot more Thant 50%. Also there are States that have 50/50 Dem/GOP balance but Democrats struggle to break through due to dominant GOP gerrymandering, election trickery and thuggery.
Its not perfect here but we have a system that has made voting very short and easy, health insurance for everyone, less guns, good public education, consumer, family, small business and worker supports. My family has improved each generation. I support compulsory voting. We install experts through experts, not via voting, eg judges etc. We have a majority worker/family priority Political governance in Australia. We have majority rule with bills passed relatively easily. Sometimes our upper house has a small majority that can be a challenge but that's not totally bad or totally crippling.
But we also need America in our world. We need US voters to reduce your Maga Gop to the back burner for a long long long time. Please please please vote! I and many others I know, fear for our children as Trump has got so influential and powerful. I believe it is because of your poor general Public Education system. So many of your Charter Schools can close down even as a child travels to school. Threes no Federal standards. I spent a year traveling tens of thousands of miles throughout America. I love your Country. It is blessed with some of the most stupendous scenery. People are wary but hospitable. I was a women driving alone. Please focus on your education and also your people need more working rights. Time off to recreate and reflect. To become more aware by traveling beyond their eco-systems.
I believe toucan fight Maga using more simple graphics showing comparisons between countries and states that are blessed with good laws, rules and rights. Use Australia. Use charts, graphs. Talk about children's rights and futures. Keep it simple but in your face, in your street, library, halls, news etc. Use graphics to show the opposite path under Trump. Use AI and scenarios to show good and bad futures that can result from your vote. Use the crime and mistakes in each political party histories. Make it a Democracy vs Trump.
Threes more than Americans that care about America. I am retired now but I am up at night watching the news and your political polls (which I tend to believe also include some trickery, I mean some polling company addresses look like abandoned warehouses). I worry about my children and grandchildren's future. Trump is ill and shouldn't have such influence, let alone power. We are all agog here. Get that 60% bill making rule back, then fix what you can so elections are balanced in maps, voter rights, and voting ease. So that the Right wing media, RW justices must move back to the centre. So that people aren't paying so much for corporation wealth.
I am not religious, but I still have hope. I don't think Trump will win but I don't think he should even be running. & I know he is just the tip of the iceberg of ignorance and greed, but if he fails by a huge margin, then the GOP will at least then need to have actual real fair citizen benefiting, environmental fixing, consumer supporting policies.

[Oneironaut]

92. Trump did win in 2016.

Saying otherwise is just doing what Trump did in 2020.

[Zeitghost]

95. Yep

Election denial isn't a good look, I'm surprised it's allowed here.