Scoop: Israel proposes 2-month fighting pause in Gaza for release of all hostages

[tritsofme]

Israel has given Hamas a proposal through Qatari and Egyptian mediators that includes up to two months of a pause in the fighting as part of a multi-phase deal that would include the release of all remaining hostages held in Gaza, two Israeli officials said.

Why it matters: While the proposal doesn't include an agreement to end the war, it is the longest period of ceasefire that Israel has offered Hamas since the start of the war.

Driving the news: More than 130 hostages are still being held in Gaza. Israeli officials say several dozen hostages either died on October 7 or in the weeks since then.

Behind the scenes: Two Israeli officials said the Israeli war cabinet approved ten days ago the parameters of a new proposal for a hostage deal, which are different from past aspects of deals rejected by Hamas and more forward-leaning than previous Israeli proposals.

https://www.axios.com/2024/01/22/israel-hamas-gaza-ceasefire-hostages

The ball is once again in the court of Hamas, will they continue to force Gazans to endure war, or will they agree to these reasonable terms?

[WarGamer]

1. There were protests just yesterday in Israel by hostage families

Urging the government to DO SOMETHING.

[former9thward]

3. You really think Israel has been doing nothing?

You don't know Israel.

[WarGamer]

5. tell the hostage families.

[Cha]

7. So Now This Is Again Back to HAMAs

to DO SOMETHING.

They said an Unequivocal NO on Dec 20, 2023 when Israel Offered a Humanitarian Ceasefire.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. And what will happen? Anything?

I hope this materializes, but I don't have much hope.

[Torchlight]

4. I just can't see Hamas allowing this to happen

A reduction in violence and the chance for everyone to step back a take a few deep, collective breaths doesn't appear to be the type of change Hamas is seeking. Beyond the hostages, Hamas has no real leverage, and I just don't see Hamas willingly handing over the only thing they believe gives them that.

My own firm opinion is that peace, even one temporary and tenuous, is the very last thing Hamas wants to see happen.

[ColinC]

6. The fact that Israel is creating terms to stop the "fighting" essentially means

The ball is in their court. But we all know that “fighting” is just code for killing, and that Hamas and Bibi are two sides of the same coin.

If Israel can actually single handedly end the war in exchange for releasing hostages, they should have done it already.

[Cha]

8. This is ON Fucking HAMAS.. REALEASE the HOSTAGES!!

[tritsofme]

11. They seem to be looking for a "ceasefire" where Hamas kills Jews with impunity, but Israel is prohibited from responding

[Cha]

13. It's Sickening.

[ColinC]

16. Killing with impunity IS sickening

But who is exactly doing that?


Once again: Hamas and Bibi are two sides of the same coin.

[Cha]

19. This is ALL ON FUCKING HAMAS.. They Strarted THIS

SHIT & Would NOtTAccept Israel's Offer for a Humanitarian Ceasefire on Dec, 20, 2023.

Now they Better Fucking Accept this Offer from Israel.

[ColinC]

25. And why does Hamas exist? Because Israel worked for years to keep them in power

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

Israel is almost single handedly responsible for Hamas existing, and in turn the terrorist attacks they created. They are no less responsible for the direct onslaught and deaths of thousands of Palestinians. This isn’t a real war. It is a ploy in behalf of Bibi to massacre Palestinians and Israelis in order to acquire territory.

[NickB79]

64. Directly blaming Israel for the terrorist attacks of Oct 7 on their own people

That's about as vile and antisemitism as you can get.

And I'm reading it on DU instead of a MAGA sesspool forum 🤮

But yeah, no Hamas supporters on DU 🤔

[Cha]

82. "HAMAS EXISTS TO KILL All The Jews".

We must be absolutely clear-eyed about the following two truths about Hamas. First, Hamas exists for one and only one reason: it is on an eternal, holy mission to destroy Israel by killing the Jews. Second, Hamas leaders believe that any and all Palestinian lives must be sacrificed in pursuit of Hamas’s mission. Hamas’s leaders have said—over and over—what they are and what they want. And they have shown us that their deeds match their words. Understanding Hamas—and its particular brand of antisemitism—is crucial, because it shows the international community the path to saving thousands of lives.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/what-hamas-leaders-actually-want-in-their-own-words-part-1/

[ColinC]

15. Who's killing who with impunity exactly? Israel has killed over 25,000

The death toll for Israel has stopped at a fraction of that. 🤔

What you said doesn’t make sense to me. Imagine if I said this to you:

They seem to be looking for a "ceasefire" where Israel kills Palestinians with impunity, but Palestine is prohibited from responding

Neither narrative is true, and killing is simply killing regardless of how it is framed. Killing is the most primitive and barbaric form of discourse. Yet somehow it’s okay if “my side” is doing it? Or if they are killing massive amounts of people in retaliation? 🤔

[Arazi]

17. It's a war

This is how wars go sometimes.

This is the war Hamas wants and it’s the war they’re getting

[ColinC]

21. it is at best unjustified asymmetrical warfare where the vast majority of deaths are civilians.

At worst, it is a massacre. Either way, to justify preventable killing because it is a war makes no sense to me.

Regardless, it seems to me that we agree that one side is killing with impunity and it isn’t Palestine.

[tritsofme]

22. Right, it seems like some folks are frustrated that Hamas isn't better at killing Jews

so that the deaths could be more “symmetrical”

One side is pursuing a strategy that maximizes the deaths of Palestinian civilians, and that is Hamas.

[Beastly Boy]

35. Are you serious?

A tool of Israel killing Israeli civilians and being irrelevant otherwise? How obscenely twisted is THIS pretzel?

[ColinC]

38. Dead serious

As dead as the civilians some are justifying murdering.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html?unlocked_article_code=1.P00.C46W.DUuexcftN-sm&smid=url-share

Allowing the payments — billions of dollars over roughly a decade — was a gamble by Mr. Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the Oct. 7 attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting.

[Beastly Boy]

67. You may be dead serious about repeatedly citing the article that

Has precious little to do with your assertions, but I was really asking about your assertions and not an article which has precious little to do with them.

[Arazi]

39. The Kremlin propaganda is strong here

I admit, this is fucked up by even the usual bullshit coming from pro-Pal supporters but the lurking antisemitism is finally out in the open.

[Cha]

84. Sure As Shit Is.

[Cha]

91. 🕯️🕊️🇮🇱💙

[TexasDem69]

42. This post is appallingly misinformed

I’m shocked it’s even allowed on DU. My Pillow Guy would say something like this, not informed Democrats. Let’s just stop with the nonsense.

[Arazi]

47. It's even got multiple recs

There’s a contingent here who endorse this bullshit

Bonkers

[Cha]

92. ..

Had.

Thankfully lots of people realize it for what it is.

[Cha]

85. REC TY

[Arazi]

26. Israel was fully justified in responding to a massive terrorist attack

Hamas started it. They decided the battlefield and the terms of engagement. Now Israel will finish it. Hamas knew Israel had battle superiority when they started this war.

Gaza is a horror but no different than any other war. The sooner Hamas surrenders the better. Perhaps demand that

[ColinC]

31. And why does Hamas exist? Because Israel worked for years to keep them in power

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html?unlocked_article_code=1.P00.C46W.DUuexcftN-sm&smid=url-share

Israel is almost single handedly responsible for Hamas existing, and in turn the terrorist attacks they created. They are no less responsible for the direct onslaught and deaths of thousands of Palestinians. This isn’t a real war. It is a ploy in behalf of Bibi to massacre Palestinians and Israelis in order to acquire territory.

[Arazi]

34. Hamas has received BILLIONS in foreign aid

Most of it from other Arab nations and the US.

Netanyahu gambled on a stupid plan and lost big time. Nobody disputes that. He’s got to go.

But to believe Hamas only exists because of Israeli support is Kremlin propaganda

[ColinC]

37. Regardless, Israel and Hamas both don't mind what is happening.

And the only ones really getting hurt are civilians, while one or two brass get caught in the crossfire.

Justifying this response because of war really does seem like justifying mass murder.

[Arazi]

43. That's fucked up equating the two

Hamas wanted this. No way Israel did. You could even say Netanyahu paid Hamas off to try to avoid this for years.

The title of this thread is a ceasefire proposal by Israel. Hamas broke the last ceasefire that Israel set up.

[ColinC]

48. So what's the plan? 25,000 civilians are dead and Hamas is still kicking.

How many more people does Israel need to kill before Hamas is dead?

[Arazi]

54. I guess we'll find out

War is hell.

People starve. People die. It’s a horror. Hamas inflicted this on their own people knowing what would ensue. Israel will continue until they feel secure.

Atm, Israel is proposing a ceasefire. Hamas broke the last one. Maybe there’s a path to a permanent ceasefire. Nobody knows

[ColinC]

58. It's weird.

I thought we learned the lesson about asymmetrical warfare after the Spanish were kicked out of the Philippines. And then we didn’t. But surely after the Vietnam war and two world wars, we must have learned that asymmetrical warfare cannot be won.

Nope, because a few decades later we invaded Afghanistan murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians as a response to 9/11 -sure that asymmetrical warfare can be won that time! And if that didn’t work, maybe Iraq would, right? Did the hundreds of thousands of dead civilians in Iraq justify the shit show authoritarian government that is essentially in charge there now to replace the old authoritarian government?

Okay that didn’t work…

I know! Let’s support our friend Israel in launching a massive attack on one of the most concentrated populations in the entire world as a response to a terrorist attack. I’m sure this will be the one that’s won. Surely what could go wrong? 🤔

[Arazi]

62. Newsflash! Netanyahu is Israel's PM

Not Joe Biden

And yes, we do support the only democracy in the ME.

Just as Israel supported us in our shitty wars, so are we standing by Israel albeit while doing our best to dissuade them from repeating our shitty mistakes

Link to tweet

?s=46
.

[madaboutharry]

61. There are not 25,000 civilians dead.

Those are numbers from Hamas and all the entities Hamas controls in Gaza.

The IDF has killed approximately 10,000 Hamas terrorists. Hamas counts its own members as civilians. Last time I was in elementary school 25 - 10 = 15. It is terrible innocent people have died, but the disinformation is also terrible.

Is it a tragedy that even one civilian has died? Yes. No one disputes that. This is what happens in a war fought in an urban battlefield, a battlefield intentionally chosen by Hamas.

[AloeVera]

72. Keep telling yourself that.

Even after the unburied, the buried under rubble, buried in mass graves or buried hurriedly without notification are counted.

How do you think the counting and reporting is done now, with most hospitals closed and endless communications blackouts?

We will find out in the end that it truly is a genocide.

[Cha]

93. Ridiculous! No Way Can you Sapeak

for Israelis.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

40. Isn't Israel's "support" essentially not stopping humanitarian aid

And turning a blind eye when it wasn’t used as such?
Had Israel stopped the Qatari aid, what then?
Had they decided to remove Hamas years ago, what then?
I never hear answers from the terrorist apologists about that.
Actually, if it was pre TikTok, a bunch of useful idiots and 30 international doctor’s wouldn’t have had their talking points about colonizers and watermelons. So maybe they should’ve dealt with it years ago.

[ColinC]

51. Your what ifs are fantastical what aboutisms

And have no basis in reality. The fact is they didn’t stop the money specifically because, as stated, Hamas in power benefited Bibis goal for preventing a Palestinian state. The terrorist apologist are the ones right now insisting Israel continue to murder civilians with no end in sight.

[Beastly Boy]

65. Did you even read the article you cited?

It basically destroys every assertion you made. According to it, Israel didn’t lift a finger to keep Hamas in power, the article doesn’t show how Israel is responsible, single-handedly or otherwise, for Hamas existence, there is no turn in “creating” the terrorist attack by Israel (that’s a delusional fantasy which is patently ridiculous on its face as is the notion of Israel being responsible for the murders of Israeli civilians by Hamas). The article also doesn’t comment on who is responsible for the deaths of Palestinian civilians, although it is easy for any reasonable person to surmise that Hamas, whose leaders literally bragged about orchestrating the deaths of Palestinian civilians, bare full responsibility for it.

Reasoning, however, doesn’t seem to be your strong suit, which would explain why you may imagine that this isn’t a real war but a ploy by someone you blame for creating Hamas to massacre Hamas supporters en masse in order to acquire the territory that Israel gave up almost twenty years ago and Hamas had ruled nearly as long.

[Voltaire2]

95. So it's ok to kill civilians with impunity if 'it's a war'?

I didn't know that. But ok then, you should apply your ethical standard to both sides in the conflict, which would make it ok for Hamas to kill civilians with impunity, which they obviously did.

Seems to me to not be a good ethical standard. In fact the opposite would appear to be a much better, and universally applicable standard. How about 'killing civilians is wrong'. Both sides should stop doing that.

[AloeVera]

60. I don't understand that reasoning.

Israel HAS responded. Hamas did not kill with impunity. How does a ceasefire change that? Especially a ceasefire that is temporary?

A ceasefire will free the hostages and also save untold number of Palestinian lives. They are suffering horribly.

How is that a bad thing?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

81. Hamas did not kill with impunity?

I'm flabbergasted at that statement in your post.
Are you really saying that Hamas, on 10/7, didn't kill with impunity?
Well then, I guess Hamas didn't rape, disfigure, mangle. torture innocent Israeli and foreign citizens with impunity either.
Amirite?

[AloeVera]

88. What has Israel been doing for 3 months?

DICTIONARY:
Impunity: exemption from punishment or freedom from the injurious consequences of an action.

If not punishing Hamas, what has Israel been doing for 3 months? Something else?

[Beastly Boy]

24. I don't get your analogy.

When a player hits a ball it usually ends up in the opponents court.

How did Israel end up with the ball in their court when they just sent it to Hamas court?

Does Hamas get to respond at all? If not, WTF is their responsibility in all of this? Wait for Israel to respond to Israel’s proposal?

[TexasDem69]

41. Israel can't

The hostages are held by Hamas, not Israel.

[ColinC]

44. If Hamas kills all of the hostages, how many more dead civilians will it take to adequately "respond"

?

Isnt 25,000 dead civilians enough of a response for the terrorist attack on October 7? Will folks be happy if it is 100,000? How about a million dead Palestinians? And if they don’t release the hostages after that, should they just raze the city and murder everybody? Hamas will survive all of it because they are a terrorist organization without a real foundation and loosely defined structure . But everybody else in Gaza? Not so much…

[Arazi]

49. As many as it takes for Israel to feel secure

It’s a fucking war. That’s the reality of it. Have you ever paid attention to a war or warzones before this? There’s been at least a dozen other conflicts in the past 20 - 50 years, some ongoing right now, where the civilian casualties and atrocities far surpass what’s happening in Gaza.

Hamas is responsible for every death

[ColinC]

53. "As many [dead civilians] as it takes for Israel to feel secure"

Are you hearing yourself?

[Arazi]

55. Of course I hear myself

I’ll repeat it again and maybe you’ll hear it, it’s a fucking war that Hamas started and Israel is going to finish.

Israel’s not going to co-exist next to a terrorist state. No nation would accept that.

No nation should be expected to accept that.

Just Jews… 🤔

[ColinC]

63. "It's a fucking war that [insert failed historical asymmetrical war enemy here] started and we are going to finish!"

Because that has always worked so well every other time it’s been tried, right?

“It’s a fucking war that the Philipino nationalists started and Spain is going to finish!”

“It’s a fucking war that the Viet Cong started and we are going to finish!”

“It’s a fucking war that the Taliban started and Russia is going to finish!”

“It’s a fucking war that Al Qaeda started and we are going to finish!”


“It’s a fucking war that Saddam Hussein stared and we are going to finish!”

“It’s a fucking war that Hamas started and Israel is going to finish!”


I think they’ll get em this time!

[Arazi]

66. "We're" not in this war

Israel is.

This is getting boring. 🥱

[ColinC]

71. That's what I said. But back on topic:

I’m sure this time will be different, right?

[Arazi]

77. I'm not in the IDF

I’m not privy to their strategy. I would have proposed a different strategy but I’m not in their war room.

It’s easy to be an armchair general. Urban warfare compounded by tunnels is guaranteed to be a shitshow. The US sent our urban warfare experts over at the start to offer advice, including the general who oversaw the battle of Fallujah.

I refuse to second guess them.

No nation should be expected to live beside a terrorist state. Israel is not going to live beside a terrorist state that’s founded on Jewish genocide.

[TexasDem69]

50. So what's your solution

That stops future attacks by Hamas? Cause it seems like you’re ok with Hamas remaining intact, despite its intentional and targeted rape, kidnapping and murder of 1,000+ civilians.

[ColinC]

74. My solution is to attack Hamas, not civilians. Killing civilians is not doing anything but empowering Hamas

Attacking them would be most succcessful through soft power and a two state solution bringing the Palestinian Authority on board and forcing Hamas out of power through diplomatic means. Killing civilians only garners them more support, making them grow. As is the case with the weaker power in nearly every asymmetrical war in history.

[TexasDem69]

75. Ok, two thumbs up. But how does Israel do that

When Hamas hides behind civilians, in schools, homes and hospitals?

[ColinC]

76. Establish good faith with the Palestinians and start honoring the treaties it broke would be a good start

Use the Palestinians Authority and regional allies to broker a deal that forces Hamas out of power, and reestablishes civilian rule in Gaza.

Hamas is nothing without the support of Palestinians. Murdering civilians just makes Hamas stronger. Garnering the good faith support of their own Arab population and those in Palestinian would be a pretty fast way to get rid of Hamas.

I imagine this is something that may happen anyways in the near future -after maybe a hundred thousand more needless deaths, however.

[TexasDem69]

78. Which treaties did it break?

And was that before Hamas’ atrocities? https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html. Justice demands the perpetrators and planners are punished. Wouldn’t you agree?

[Arazi]

79. The Palestinian Authority is a nonstarter

They’re deeply corrupt and so unpopular in the West Bank they only survive with the help of the IDF. Abbas is another failure and is in no position to lead Gaza

Hamas is supported by virtually all Arab and Muslim states in the region - Qatar, KSA, even Turkey

[Cha]

94. Fuck the Gang Raping Mutilating, Butchering Sadistic

Medieval HAMAS.

This Whole Shit IS ON THEM!! Fuck Them OFF to Hell... they Don't give a Shit about anybody.

[ripcord]

9. Does anyone really believe all the hostages are still alive?

[Behind the Aegis]

10. No. Most are probably dead.

However, alive or dead, it is important to Israel to bring them home. Even the dead ones.

[sheshe2]

30. Most likely not.

However Israel needs closure and to bury their dead.

[EllieBC]

89. Nope.

Hamas likely killed their bargaining chips early on.

[Mosby]

12. It's a great offer

We will see what happens, there is a lot of pressure on Hamas right now.

[mcar]

14. From whom?

I'm asking honestly. I've seen nothing but constant pressure on Israel but little on Hamas.

[Mosby]

18. The Saudis and Russians have both called for releasing hostages.

Maybe I'm just working off a hunch, but I don't think this is going the way hamas and it's supporters thought. All the pressure on Israel hasn't made a bit of difference. The world powers can't even get Netanyahu removed from office. The Arab states refusal to take refugees is showing them to be hypocrites. Protestors in the US are left standing outside of restaurants where Jewish senators are eating dinner, again, showing their true colors. None of the media spin is working except in Arabic media. All the stupid conspiracy theories about Jews and Israel are collapsing in on them. Sanders can't stomp his feet and make Israel stop, the US, UK etc can't dissolve Israel. The ICJ can't do shit. The UNSC can't do anything. Hamas is as isolated as never before. They crossed a red line on 10/7 and are reaping the whirlwind of their decisions.

[mcar]

20. Thanks for this

You've given me a lot to think about.

[David__77]

27. Why should Arab states take Israel's refugees?

Why should they facilitate the plans of Netanyahu, Smotrich and rest of the bunch?

[Arazi]

28. At the moment, to get them out of a battle zone and save their lives

And these are Hamas’ refugees, not Israel’s

They started the war and broke a ceasefire in December to continue it

[David__77]

29. They are Israel's refugees, absolutely. Just as is everyone in West Banka and East Jerusalem.

And "freedom" to leave without the right of return would be ethnic cleansing.

[Arazi]

32. Nope, Hamas' refugees and Hamas' war

The title of this thread refers to Israel proposing a ceasefire.

Israel is trying to facilitate a break in Hamas’ war.

It’s interesting no other Arab nations will even take the Palestinians. Egypt won’t even open the Rafah Gate

[David__77]

33. I am glad that Biden's administration has made strong statements against depopulation plans.

[Arazi]

36. On that we can agree

[AloeVera]

46. Why is it "interesting"?

You know why Egypt won't open the gate. They've made it very clear why. So have other Arab nations. So what is interesting about it? The only interesting thing I see is that they're not willing to be pawns for Israel and complicit in another ethnic cleansing. But perhaps you find something else interesting so you should say it.

[TexasDem69]

59. What ethnic cleansing?

The one that Hamas is trying to facilitate?

[AloeVera]

68. I ask you to...

Please explain how Hamas is facilitating ethnic cleansing. The twists in logic coming from the pro- Israeli side is making my head spin.

At least you seem to now admit ethnic cleansing is happening. Something your side has vehemently denied for months. Strange how that works.

[TexasDem69]

73. Hamas' stated, official policy

Is the elimination of Israel and its citizens. That is the ethnic cleansing and genocide that Hamas ADMITS as a goal, and that is the ethnic cleansing that Hamas is trying to facilitate. You need look no further than the October 7 atrocities—rape, mutilations, child murders—to see the truth. You are too smart not to see the truth.

[The Magistrate]

45. Why Should Any Country Take In Refugees, Sir?

Why should European nations take in refugees from the Africa an d the Near East?

Why should the US take in refugees from Central and South America?

[David__77]

52. If there was assurance that people would have right of return, perhaps the consideration would be different.

As it stands and given the comments by numerous Israeli government officials, I don't think such assurance exists.

[The Magistrate]

57. But There Never Is Such Assurance, Sir

You leave for safety, you may never get back. Sometimes, you find yourself a better life elsewhere, or an adequate one. Sometimes, the place you found refuge in will force you back when you want to stay.

[thucythucy]

69. Out of curiosity, do you think the Jews forced to flee

from Libya, Algeria, Syria, Morocco, Tunesia, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, and the UAE have a right to return?

Or compensation for the land and property seized when those nations decided to force all the Jews living in their countries to leave?

Close to a million Jews had to flee from those nations since the 1940s, leaving behind property the value of which is estimated at hundreds of billions of dollars. The amount of land seized from Jews in those nations amounts to acreage twice the size of Israel.

About half the current Jewish population of Israel is made up of people who had to flee Arab lands, or the descendants of those who fled. Oddly enough, I don't see anyone advocating for their right to return.

[TheKentuckian]

70. In those situations the lives out value the cause

In this one, despite the outcry the aim is spend every drop of Palestinian blood if that is the cost of wiping Israel off the map or hell, even give them a serious black eye.

It doesn't matter if nary a soul survives, they will dig up more who's "right of return" must be honored or just send in a line change of "martyrs" of whatever decent if need be.

[David__77]

80. The problem is the belief that the presence of non-combatants of West Bank and Gaza is a threat.

[The Magistrate]

83. Nobody Believes That, Sir

What people know for a fact is that there is no way to distinguish combatants from non-combatants, and that this is by design of the combatants, and has the tacit acceptance of the non-combatants disadvantaged by this.

It makes co-existence difficult....

[Arazi]

87. In Hamas propaganda films, they're in uniform

Fighting in the streets they’re in civilian clothes.

I found it interesting when those pictures showed hundreds of rows of Palestinian men stripped after surrendering and so many had identical underwear.

The uproar over the treatment of military aged men (“how dare they do this to civilians”?!) yet anyone whose served spotted those identical skivvies and nodded. The suicide bombings ensured that treatment but it was very revealing for ID purposes as well

[Eko]

90. That's a good question.

Imagine a world governing body making you do that when you don't want to.

[marble falls]

56. Because once the hostages are released and accounted for, IDF will withdraw, right?

[Cha]

86. "Scoop: Israel proposes 2-month fighting pause in Gaza for release of all hostages"

Oh you think Fucking Butchers of HAMAS are going to release th Hostages the Grabeed on Oct 7, 2023?