I want to say something about dementia in public officials:

[PCIntern]

I have posted this story here over the years but I believe at this time it bears repeating.

In 1980, I was a brand new clinician right out of school and thrust into performing very sophisticated dentistry for some very significant people in the Philadelphia area. I was honored to have many of these individuals in my practice at the time, since I had perhaps two years experience total at the time and was dentally reconstructing these individuals extensively.

One of my patients was a very famous older psychologist, who had taught generations of practitioners, many of whom became significant individuals within the profession themselves, and he was a very bright and engaging man and we used to talk… a lot. you have to understand that in those days doing crowns and bridgework for patients was extremely laborious and technique sensitive and we didn’t have the materials that we have today and so everything took 10 times the amount of time at least. One day during the 1980 presidential campaign. He asked me what I thought of Ronald Reagan, and I replied. “Aside from his politics which are horrendous, I’ll tell you what bothers me. The reporters keep talking about the fact that wherever he goes, he has to have a clear glass bottle of jellybeans within his eyesight. I think that’s a clear clinical sign that he’s no longer well-grounded, and needs familiar objects to fasten upon. We had a senile neighbor when I was a kid who had brightly colored objects in his house in all the rooms , and would stare at them, so that he felt that he was in familiar surroundings and so he would stay calm.”

The psychologist said to me in that psychologist way of speaking, “So what is it that you’re telling me?” And I replied, “I think he has early Alzheimer’s disease.” The psychologist nodded his head and said that he believed that that was the case as well.

Yes, I know you’re not allowed to diagnose over television, but this no question that this guy has lost several steps since he was first inaugurated in 2017 and is plummeting into the depths of Behaviors consistent with dementia . It will not be long in my opinion before something absolutely insane happens.

“It will be wild”. Believe me.

[Raven]

1. Agree, and add the stress of the legal cases and the fact that he doesn't take care of himself. Not good.

[3Hotdogs]

11. Doesn't take care of himself? Da fuck you talkin'? He is well nourished.

He eats several McWhoppers a day. When ice cream is served, he gets two scoops. Never misses a meal.

[erronis]

16. Maybe Raven meant that tfg doesn't wipe himself.

Or more politely, "doesn't clean up after a monster, hugely BM."

It appears the tfg thinks the toilet paper is supposed to be used to clean his shoes - he's a germaphobe, right?

[GreenWave]

28. Maybe that TP realizes what a piece of shit he is

and is awaiting the wiping.

[Attilatheblond]

2. My sister died last year, dementia

Seriously intelligent and driven woman, gone piece by piece. Thinking about the stages, and what she did to 'fake it' and struggle to stay in her mind, I see the same things, the grasping on the weirdest familiar objects to keep her bearings, the growing rigidity because of that desperate need to always have something to focus on.

Yep, You have a solid point. And Trump is sundowning big time, only it's not just evenings anymore.

[LoisB]

38. So sorry about your sister.

I think the "piece by piece" is the really hard part.

[Attilatheblond]

39. Thank you, and yes piece by piece is horrible

I miss her, but missing her started well before her heart stopped. Now, I am grateful she is no longer in that horrible place where her failing mind had her trapped.

But when I think back at the progression of the dementia, and look at Trump, oh, how many similarities I see. At least my sister was smart enough to not try to cling to power.

[Wednesdays]

49. My mother

died at age 91, and had advancing dementia approximately the last ten years of her life. I'd say her last two years were the happiest of her life, because she had forgotten all the things that made her anxious or angry!

[Attilatheblond]

54. Condolences on your loss.

Your mom was lucky to leave from a good point in her memory.

[LiberalFighter]

65. Considering all the memories a person has that would be a good ending.

[LiberalFighter]

64. It is important to get the most out of life with as little suffering as possible.

[Attilatheblond]

67. She seemed to be stuck in a time/situation from her youth

that was not good and she probably would have benefited from some trauma therapy, but she was strong and strong willed, said she was OK. Then dementia sent her back in time to her own personal hell.

My advice to all: Get the help you need when you can. Life should not end trapped in the worst part of your life.

[LiberalFighter]

68. Hopefully I won't reach that point.

If I do I think there will be mostly good memories. I think about where I was in my life. Part of it is due to researching my family tree. I wonder what life at times were like for some when I come across obits, marriage announcements, and other news. Along with info found in Census records and vital records.

[bucolic_frolic]

3. Agree, It will not be long.

I've had experience with dementia, and I give it 3 to 5 months. He has reached a point of visible agitation, sweating, klutzy hand gestures, awkward wording.

[LiberalFighter]

24. When it happens this post needs to be remembered.

[Trueblue Texan]

32. You guys are echoing my fears...

I agree, TFG may not be able to hide from full blown dementia much longer. But I fear it will happen after the primaries and convention, after he has already been declared the candidate. Does anyone know what happens if the candidate cannot complete the race? If he dies or simply cannot speak anymore, or it's just too obvious how lost he is, even to his most loyal base, what happens then?

[LiberalFighter]

33. I don't know specifically the answer.

I figure if after the national convention the RNC members decide. I'm guessing it would be state party chairs and vice and other state members. It would need to be decided quickly so their name would be on the ballot for each state.

[mgardener]

34. There better be a damn good VP with a Trump candidacy

And Elise Stefanik is not that person.

[Attilatheblond]

40. Gotta fear the people around him will close their circle and hide it as long as possible

They want power too and may insist he is 'in seclusion, working with experts to solve all the nation's problems, and can't be disturbed by making public appearances. Similar things have happened in previous administrations.

[Thunderbeast]

45. In 1972, Thomas Eagleton was replaced as the Democratic VP candidate

when it was disclosed that he had been treated years before for depression with electro-shock therapy. He showed no symptoms, but the party replaced him on the ticket after the convention with Sargent Schriever.

If Trump is unable to complete the campaign, the VP nominee would likely replace him at vthe head of the ticket.

[hlthe2b]

4. The old rule about not offering a psych opinion without one-on-one professional relationship ignores

the "duty to warn," which has been the point of a group of psychiatrists involved in speaking out the past four years--including Dr. Bandy Lee-fired from Yale for doing just that.

The point they make (beyond "duty to warn" ) that I agree with is that at no previous moment in time have we had real-time access to video and writings, utterances, and decisions made by prominent figures like Trump over time. That is easily more than a one-on-one psychiatrist would be likely to have had before making an "ethically acceptable" conventional diagnosis.

But yes, clinicians of many disciplines and even family members of those who have been afflicted with the various forms of dementia can certainly recognize the signs. And when accompanied by potentially harmful personality disorders, that SHOULD trigger an independent evaluation. Not a "Dr" Ronnie-type sycophant, but a panel of the most independent and credible physicians, psychiatrists, and neurologists.

[mopinko]

5. my late bil worked for the dea out of law school.

he was so sickened by what he saw that he started a criminal defense firm and defended mostly drug cases.
but he kept in touch w friends in the dea. he told us early in the 2nd term that everyone around him knew he had alzheimers.

[TSExile]

6. I am a home health aide, and work with the elderly and/or infirm.

Anyone else his age who was acting and talking like that would be put in a home, and declared a danger to himself and others.

[grumpyduck]

7. I hope you meant

"Anyone else his age and acting that way would be put in a home, and declared a danger to himself and others."

Which I totally agree with.

[TSExile]

9. Of course. I thought that went without saying here...

...but I will go back and edit. Thanks.

[grumpyduck]

10. Thank you!

[Attilatheblond]

8. Kinda sad that nobody loves him enough to do anything to really help

But, owing to his personality disorders, he pretty much assured nobody would really love him.

[Caliman73]

23. It maybe depends on the jurisdiction.

I work for an Adult Protective Services agency and even though Trump's behaviors show signs of diminished capacity and being erratic, they would not meet the criteria for either involuntary treatment nor for a conservatorship process, at least not in California. He would not be placed in a home. Any intervention would likely consist of hiring care providers that would help him meet his needs, stay safe, and preserve his level of independence for as long as possible.

He is a dangerous man, but not because he is showing signs of danger to self or others. He is dangerous primarily because he is being aided and abetted by people who hold power, and institutions that hold power. He has a whole party apparatus behind him in his political ambitions. He has a Press that is unwilling to discuss his erratic and dangerous behavior for fear of losing access and losing money.

Trump likely has a combination of personality disorders and he is starting to experience cognitive decline, which is likely exacerbated by the stress that he has brought upon himself by his criminal actions. He is shocked that he is being held accountable, something that has happened VERY infrequently in his life.

I deal with people in varying stages of cognitive decline, from the slow decline of Alzheimer's to rapid onset caused by stroke, to the problems caused by Korsakoff Syndrome. The earliest stages can be the most difficult to deal with as the person is vulnerable and making impulsive decisions, but retains a level of capacity that prohibits more protective interventions. This is likely where we are at with Trump. This, plus his narcissism and his sociopathy, and as I said, those with power who continue to back him and use him for their own desires for power, are the real danger to the nation.

[padfun]

35. What you just wrote is impressive to me.

It's a very clear explanation and in terms that any layman can understand. And well written.
Respect.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

60. Thank you for this.

People here have been declaring ever since 2016 that Trump obviously has dementia, but while I'm no expert and have had only limited dealings with anyone with dementia, it seems to me that while is is showing some cognitive decline, he probably does not have dementia at this point.

[Caliman73]

66. Near and dear to me...

Having worked with this population for the last 10 years, it is something that gets to me when people throw around words like Dementia. I really deeply, intensely dislike Trump. He is horrible and dangerous.

The problem is that Dementia is a real condition with multiple complex causes and serious effects to the person and those around them. After the fact, it is well known that Reagan had significant cognitive decline and likely had Dementia toward the end of his term. It was said that Woodrow Wilson also suffered serious brain injury from a stroke that effectively putting his second wife Edith in charge of the Executive Branch.

We have seen Presidents make mistakes throughout history from President Obama talking about 57 States (when he meant 50 States and 7 territories), to Biden's gaffes, to Trump's lapses. The reason it is such a big story right now is because the media has decided that Trump's attacks on President Biden because of his age and some of the gaffes and falls are serious and deserve attention. From our side, we hit back with Trump slurring his words, forgetting the difference between Sioux Falls and Sioux City, and calling Nancy Pelosi Nikki Haley.

Trump is an asshole. He is a bully. He calls people "fat" when he is fat. He calls people ugly when he (at least to me) is grotesque. He calls President Biden feeble when Biden could probably kick Trump's ass easily. So we say, "no, you are demented". It irks me because there are people truly suffering from this condition. It robs human beings of their humanity.

Cancer kills your body. You waste away and that is horrible, absolutely horrible. Dementia takes everything away from you. Your independence, your personality, your memories, and eventually your life. I have seen attorneys, scientists, doctors, wives, fathers, etc... lose who they are, not remember their spouses of 50+ years and physically attack them because they think they are intruders. I have seen adult children despair and become angry because they think that their parent doesn't love them enough to remember them. It is truly horrible and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Trump may in fact be developing Dementia. We know his father developed dementia. Don't know about other family history. BUT, he is not there now. He is a narcissist. He is a sociopath. He cannot admit mistakes. He cannot acknowledge the frailty that comes with aging. He is all around a horrible person who will not decline with dignity and leave a good legacy. That may be his ultimate punishment . Our focus now needs to be keeping him away from any power and defeating those people who would prop him up and support his arrogance for their own gain.

I think that the OP made a thoughtful post based on his knowledge and experiences. I think others have allowed their dislike/hatred of Trump and valid fear of what he would do with power, cloud their assessment.

[LiberalFighter]

26. I would love for his kids and wife try to do that

[DENVERPOPS]

36. You could bet that anyone

the police talked to that was that delusional would be put on a 72 hour psych hold.......

[cab67]

12. I was always told...

...that with Reagan, the jelly beans were there for oral stimulation after he quit smoking.

[erronis]

20. Wonder if his handlers only let him have a jelly bean if he performed well.

I worked for government agencies during his tenure and always felt that he was not in control. He was a well-trained puppet/actor. And there were lots of controllers surrounding him.

[Bumbles]

50. Most notably, Nancy.

[Mr. Evil]

13. TFG talking shit is his only defense.

Like all those mob bosses going into court acting crazy and/or dragging in an oxygen tank wearing a cannula or mask to make it look like they're too sick to be convicted and go to prison.

Maybe he's doing it on purpose, just can't help himself because he's always been that way or he's legitimately losing his marbles. Either way, he has no business being anywhere near the presidency. No one in his inner circle dare say anything because that would be admitting that he's declining or he's actually mentally ill. I also think he shits himself on purpose just to see if anyone nearby dares to say anything.

This consummate asshole is just one extra large fucking mess.

[rubbersole]

25. The insanity defense would work and probably keep him out of prison.

Bigly. Brother Rudy could use it also.

[Rebl2]

29. I think

he has always been a jerk since I started paying attention in the eighties. I do believe he has signs of dementia and or Alzheimer’s. (My mother just passed from this horrible disease in the last week and a half).

By the way my Mom intensely disliked tfg. She so wanted to see Hillary win that election in 2016.

[Warpy]

14. You are far from alone

I was a nurse and I was either working or asleep during the nightly news, so I missed a lot of the drama of the 80s. Since I'd gotten my shiny new license at exactly the time the AIDS holocaust hit hardest , I didn't honestly have the emotional bandwidth to waste on that stupid old fucker beyond knowing he thought that horrible disease was killing all the right people, so we knew there would be little help any time soon

My mother, however, spotted it during one of his speeches in early 1982. She'd been a metallurgist, not a psychologist, so the signs must have been quite obvious by then, I took her word for it.

Two years later, they voted that doddering old fuck in for a second term.

[Turbineguy]

15. I'm 73 and find myself forgetting stuff, getting easily distracted.

I still have my metacognition.

Trump is crazed. And his supporters are right there with him.

[Wild blueberry]

17. I believe you

He will not go down easily.
Just hope he doesn't take our country down with him.
Still cannot fathom that he is the head of the Death Cult, formerly known as GQP.

[AllaN01Bear]

18. had a dear friend taken by this horrible thing. met him at a ham radio test site , became good friends

loaned me his radio untill i got mine . memory went down hill.when id call him he thought he was in a care home and had a redirect line and he got angry. i decided not to call anymore . learned a while ago that he is silent key or deceased ham operator. one day he crossed a line and attacked his wife . he wound up in memory care where he died . thank you rick for being a good friend .

[erronis]

21. It's a very painful disease for the survivors.

Nice that you gave him this tribute!

[dawn5651]

19. i have thought for years that the orange one has alzheimers. i worked with alzheimers patients back in the day...and he

reminds me of one lady i worked with...she could be sweet and kind and the next minute totally enraged and ready to hit someone. she gradually quit eating and died about a month later.

[PCIntern]

22. In healthcare we all have stories like yours

Scary stuff at times.

Front of temporal brain disorder is something else which can be very frightening at times. It turned out to the “dirty old man” was more complicated than that.

[dawn5651]

47. true ...was my first experience with someone with alzheimers and i have never forgotten

[PCIntern]

48. Rough stuff...

It changes the way you think about perception and everything else.

[GreenWave]

27. Why can't you be like my dentist? Stuff his mouth full of dental crap

and then watch them try to talk!

[nuxvomica]

30. So what would be the jar of jelly beans for TFG?

Is it the blue suit and red tie? He never seems to wear anything else.

[JoseBalow]

43. a full diaper

[KS Toronado]

31. Hope Тяцмp shows how sick he is just before the election

with not enough time for the repugs to switch candidates.

[limbicnuminousity]

37. It's a strange phenomenon.

I think people may cling to items or "things" as a means of maintaining a sense of continuity through life. Reagan may have started out keeping a jar of jelly beans around as a fond, personal reminder of more youthful times. Unfortunately, instead of carrying the memory with him into the present, he became locked in a vision of the past. So pissed we got him instead of a second Carter admin.

[no_hypocrisy]

41. Family history of Altzheimer's

Father (and paternal grandfather)
Trump's father, a real estate developer, died with Alzheimer disease at age 93 in 1998 3. (Obituary: 4) His mental status began deteriorating before his hip replacement in 1991; during that hospitalization he had clear sundowning 1b.

By contrast, in connection with his father's will, Trump testified in a deposition that his father had been "sharp as a tack" until just before he died 1c. Trump contradicted his testimony in 2019 by saying that in his father's "last few years he developed -- we probably think it was Alzheimer's" 5. Comment: Trump had ample motivation to lie about the amount of time that his father had Alzheimer disease. Trump stood to inherit more money from a late-life contested will of his father's -- if he could prove his father was mentally intact when he signed it 1d.

https://doctorzebra.com/prez/z_x45_trump_family_medical_history_g.htm

[JoseBalow]

42. So, the jellybeans in your story are an analogy for drump's

pantsload of shit? Makes sense!

[dlk]

46. With Trump, as with Reagan

Will we ever know, for certain, the identity of the person(s) behind the curtain pulling the strings?

The Republican Party has been a serious threat to our democracy for far longer than Trump’s tenure. Only recently have they been saying the quiet part out loud.

[byronius]

53. That is so true.

[Bumbles]

51. No matter the subject,

I always enjoy and learn from your postings. Thank you for your lucid and interesting way of addressing issues.

As an aside, I dealt with worsening FTD in my former husband, now called a "wasband" : ) , until he left me during the pandemic for a short visit with his daughter from his previous marriage. His mounting paranoia and blood family ties, I believe, led him to file for divorce after our 30 years together. Though I expected to be his caregiver until he needed professional help, I am now enjoying a wonderful new life at 81.

[patphil]

52. The Republican National Convention is in July. I'm not sure he can make it until then.

I believe that's why Nikki Haley is holding on. She wants to be in a position to pick up the pieces if he falls apart prior to his nomination.
Here's a discussion of what would happen if Trump was nominated, but couldn't continue through election day.
I know it's from 2016, but the process hasn't changed. It's quite an interesting read.

https://www.vox.com/2016/9/12/12887632/if-presidential-nominee-drops-out

[LisaM]

57. He might fear this too, which is why he is trying to damage her so much.

I have no faith in his mental stability or acuity, but unlike the pundits, I think he was deliberately conflating Nikki Haley and Nancy Pelosi in order to plant the image of Pelosi in the MAGA brain when they hear Nikki Haley. It's insidious. So he's a liar and a narcissist, coupled with a clear decline in faculties.

Marvelous news for the country.

[patphil]

58. That comparison pretty much buried Haley as far as Trump's hard core base is concerned.

[LiberalFighter]

63. I doubt he knows about this option.

[LiberalFighter]

62. That was pretty much how I responded when it was suggested.

[jaxexpat]

55. Donnie will not go gracefully off his stage, nor can he hope to go peacefully from this mortal coil...........

without restraints.

[chowmama]

59. He hasn't been used to this level of activity in decades.

If ever.

In office, he stayed in and watched tv till midday, spent a couple hours in the Oval Office, and then played golf or did something else to goof off. Now he's having to (or volunteering to) attend trials, give speeches at rallies and is generally 'on' and working non-stop every day. When he isn't, he's rage-tweeting.

The physical and mental stress is going to break him, and soon.

[LiberalFighter]

61. Not allowed to diagnose over televsion. Sure if it is border line.

There is a point where it becomes more apparent.

[spanone]

69. K&R

d