No one wants to talk about why Boeing planes fail

[edhopper]

Boeing was a great airplane company, run by engineers and a strong Union factory in Seattle. In 2001 they moved the HQ to Chicago where the "financial people" and bean counters took over. The soon moved the manufacturing to Right to Work South Carolina. And outsourced a lot of components.
The results, planes without necessary software to stay in the sky and sections of fuselage coming off.
You can come to your own conclusions.

[bucolic_frolic]

1. It's always the same, cost cutting that cheapens the product to pay the MBAs and Accountants

From shoes and sox to power equipment to jeans to struts and shocks. Degradation of product for corporate profits and it adversely affects our lives.

[SunSeeker]

16. The bean counters and CEOs are vampires. nt

[WarGamer]

2. If it's Boeing, I ain't going.

I'll look for Airbus options when booking flights.

The newer Neo series jets and the A350-900 are sweet... I'm fascinated by the A380 but feel uncomfortable at the thought of a giant whale flying.

[Hobo]

3. A-380

I flew an A-380 from San Francisco to Frankfort sweet smooth ride.

Hobo.

[WarGamer]

7. Oh I'm intrigued...

And I've heard lots of good about them.

[SKKY]

73. My family just flew on the A380 to Spain...

...and said it was amazing! Super comfortable seats and a very smooth flight.

[OMGWTF]

81. I saw one when I flew to Boston Logan Airport. Could not believe my eyes how big that thing is!

[ArkansasDemocrat1]

87. The 747 was always something I wanted to fly in. The A380 would be a decent substitute

[róisín_dubh]

102. I flew on an A380 from Madrid to Frankfurt...

it was the final leg of the Frankfurt-Santiago-Madrid-Frankfurt trip. The pilot came on and said we might hit some turbulence over the Alps, but that we wouldn't notice. And I didn't at all (and I hate turbulence). Watching the wings flex was magnificent (though a little unnerving as I was still, at that time, terrified to fly).
I wish British Airways would fly them from London to New York, but they don't; usually it's aging 777s.

[maxsolomon]

4. People talk about why Boeing planes fail all the time.

At least here in Seattle.

I'm going to let the NTSB come to conclusions about the Door Plug.

[edhopper]

5. I am sure you do

in Seattle. Unfortunately the rest of the country is okay with busting Unions.

[maxsolomon]

9. Lots of union work still being done here at 3 different plants.

You can't easily lay this at the feet of union-busting or outsourcing.

[lapfog_1]

54. it's really the design of the 737-Max

I don't fly much, but when I do I check the equipment and avoid the Max.

There could be quality issues as well, that I don't know enough to judge. The the design was flawed from what I've read.

[Aviation Pro]

14. Smart

.....

[LeftInTX]

6. If you have Netflix, there's a documentary about Boeing and their problems.

[Phoenix61]

8. Downfall: The Case Against Boeing on Netflix

is excellent. Seems they added software but failed to tell the pilots it was there or what it did.

[localroger]

10. Downfall? Does it end with Hitler wondering why his planes keep falling out of the sky? /nt

[Kennah]

11. Hitler reacts!

[Pinback]

56. Fegelein!!1! (nt)

[ArkansasDemocrat1]

88. (pointing at map) "Don't worry, the 737Max will save us" "Mein Fueher, the 737..."

"My fueher, two of our new 737Maxs have crashed. They think it was a software failure."

(shaking fingers, twitching eyes)

"Everyone who was here during Joe Sutter's time will leave."

(folks liked to use some sort of reference to 'Stalin' to coincide with Bruno saying it in their Downfall parodies so...)

(skips to highlights)

"Our planes are almost as bad as Stalin's!"

"I'm going to go get a job with Northrup-Grumman. I don't care what you guys do." -- FIN

[Shermann]

91. Hitler never listened to his top pilots! nt

[Takket]

12. there's nothing wrong with outsourcing. it drives competiton and improves the economy

but part of outsourcing means your vendors work needs to be checked and they need to keep up with ISO standards. who knows if they are doing that.

[FHRRK]

20. There is no way the QA/Compliance group is not all over suppliers keeping up to ISO standards.

Now, will wait to see what caused the latest supplier issues, new plane so nothing likely related to inadequate MTBF, will be interesting to see root cause.

[Quiet man]

90. Outsourcing

Scabs like to outsource jobs China,Loves it. Unions do not because the work usually goes to scabs.

[brooklynite]

13. The 737 is not built in South Carolina. They;'re built in Renton, WA.

South Carolina is where the 787 is built.

[pnwmom]

22. Not true. The 737 is only ASSEMBLED here in WA. That changed years ago.

There are parts built in Kansas, WA, OH, France, the UK, and South Carolina, which are finally assembled in WA.

"The Boeing 737 aircraft is assembled in several stages, with the fuselage being built by Spirit Aerosystems in Kansas. The wings are machined in Washington and assembled with winglets built in the UK and South Carolina.

". . . The 737's engines are made by CFM International - a GE-Safran Aircraft Engines partnership with the engines made in Evandale, Ohio, and Villaroche, France. The partnership is headquartered in Cincinnati, Ohio. Once the engines are assembled, the engines are shipped to Renton, Washington, for testing and attachment on the Boeing 737 airframes."

https://simpleflying.com/putting-together-boeing-737-process-guide/#:~:text=The%20Boeing%20737%20aircraft%20is,the%20UK%20and%20South%20Carolina.

[brooklynite]

47. I believe "assembled" means "putting in the bolts".

[pnwmom]

51. The fuselage with the defective plug was already assembled before it arrived in Washington.

So Boeing's reliance on Spirit Aerospace in Kansas led to the problem.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

64. Correct

The fuselage arrives by rail and final assembly is done Renton. Some assembly will be done in Everett soon as well.

[brooklynite]

68. "Boeing, not Spirit, mis-installed piece that blew off Alaska MAX 9 jet, industry source says" -- Seattle Times

The fuselage panel that blew off an Alaska Airlines jet earlier this month was removed for repair then reinstalled improperly by Boeing mechanics on the Renton final assembly line, a person familiar with the details of the work told The Seattle Times.

If verified by the National Transportation Safety Board investigation, this would leave Boeing primarily at fault for the accident, rather than its supplier Spirit AeroSystems, which originally installed the panel into the 737 MAX 9 fuselage in Wichita, Kan.

That panel, a door plug used to seal a hole in the fuselage sometimes used to accommodate an emergency exit, blew out of Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 as it climbed out of Portland on Jan. 5. The hair-raising incident drew fresh and sharp criticism of Boeing’s quality control systems and safety culture, which has been under the microscope since two fatal 737 MAX crashes five years ago.

Last week, an anonymous whistleblower — who appears to have access to Boeing’s manufacturing records of the work done assembling the specific Alaska Airlines jet that suffered the blowout — on an aviation website separately provided many additional details about how the door plug came to be removed and then mis-installed.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-not-spirit-mis-installed-piece-that-blew-off-alaska-max-9-jet/

[pnwmom]

74. If that report is correct, "It was removed for repair."

It arrived from Spirit in need of repair.

The only way for the plug to have blown out is if it moved up, so that the stop fittings were no longer aligned with the stop pads — which is how the plug is opened for maintenance.

. . . . As the whistleblower describes, many routine fixes are done by a team of mechanics from Spirit who are permanently on site in Renton to do “warranty” repairs on parts built by Spirit in Wichita.

Pierson confirmed that Spirit employees were stationed in Renton doing this kind of rework as far back as 2018.

“We had Spirit employees in our factory when the fuselage came in that were doing what people call ‘warranty work,’ but we would just call it defects or non-conformances,” Pierson said.

Also, according to the whistleblower, a Boeing employee/employees failed to record the repair properly.

Now the two sets of employees working in Renton, the Spirit employees and the Boeing employees, are pointing fingers at each other. "However, the whistleblower states that Spirit produces “a hideously high and very alarming number” of defects.

"The whistleblower says Boeing’s records for just the past year document a total of 392 nonconforming findings at the location where the door plug is installed, including both MAXs with actual emergency doors there and those like the Alaska jet with permanent plugs."

The fact remains that it is the whole SYSTEM, set up by former MD bean-counters, of dividing the responsibilities between Boeing employees and outside contractors, that contributed to the problem.

[greblach]

45. Now...nt

[Gore1FL]

15. Boeing's biggest problem is that McDonnell Douglas bought them with Boeing's money. nt

[greblach]

46. Yep. nt

[Yavin4]

17. The door that fell off was made by a subcontractor, Spirit AeroSystems

The Federal Aviation Administration widened its probe into Boeing and will pay special attention to the work of a subcontractor used by the aerospace giant, officials said Wednesday.

Federal investigators want to know more about Spirit AeroSystems, a Wichita, Kansas, aerospace company that makes and installs plug doors for Boeing 737 Max 9 airplanes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/faa-widens-boeing-probe-eyes-subcontractor-used-flying-giant-rcna134281

[FHRRK]

21. somewhat the point the OP was making

Outsourced work, non-union work, loss of Boeing control, etc.

IMO not enough info released, with that the move of the Execs from Seattle to Chicago was BS.

[FBaggins]

103. Yet a higher percentage of Spirit's workforce is unionized

Compared to Boeing

[mn9driver]

26. I think Spirit was spun off. The Wichita operation used to be Boeing.

I just heard that Delta has been asked to inspect all of their 737-900ERs, which have the same plug door. There are about 160 of those…

[Yavin4]

38. The CEO of Spirit was Trump's former Sec. of Defense

All roads of shit lead back to Trump.

[pnwmom]

65. Boeing had the idiotic idea that Spirit could make the planes more cheaply

and the quality would be just as high.

[IronLionZion]

83. Yes Boeing spun off Spirit AeroSystems into a subsidiary and then an independent company

Democrat Dick Gephardt is on their board of directors.

[pnwmom]

18. I've been reading lots of recent articles about this, including at least three in the NYT. nt

[Joinfortmill]

19. Trains, people. Give them some competition.

[pnwmom]

23. It won't help if the trains are built using the same management strategies. nt

[Tansy_Gold]

24. But trains don't fall outta the sky

.

[pnwmom]

25. True. But the good European ones travel at very high speeds

and careful engineers should be involved in designing them, too.

[Tansy_Gold]

34. I don't think the US currently has the rail infrastructure

to handle high-speed trains. But if the effort were put into upgrading that infrastructure and engineering the rolling stock, there's no reason why it couldn't be done.

It's all a question of having the will to do it.

[PTL_Mancuso]

59. The same quality problems would likely exist with whoever was outsourced to engineer and build the infrastructure.

It is a kind of corruption that is very hard to deal with, since cutting corners is entirely legal (or can be shown in a friendly court to be such), and the ripple effects across our complex economy can cause great damage to our society by way of a breakdown in trust of government and industry. No one truly "owns" the thing and the apparent owner stands ready to point fingers if something should go wrong. Bean-counting is extremely useful to advanced societies but can never be the main driving force. Cheapness is never the goal of a national effort. Affordable Progress with Quality is. Without Quality, it is NOT affordable.

[Tansy_Gold]

60. That's a rather bleak outlook, but it doesn't change the basic premise:

Trains still won't fall outta the sky.

[pnwmom]

66. And it doesn't change the fact that planes can fly to many more places

because you don't have to build train tracks in the sky. We're not going to build dozens of 3,000 mile long train tracks across the country.

[Tansy_Gold]

108. Sorry to be coming back to this two weeks later, but . . . .

. . . . well, here I am.


1. We already have 3,000 mile long train tracks, and each one visits many places along the way. Depending on which source one chooses to reference, there are currently approximately 150,000 miles of track in the U.S. (See https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?webmap=96ec03e4fc8546bd8a864e39a2c3fc41)

2. A single train can carry far more passengers than a single plane, and can take them on and drop them off along the way more efficiently than a plane can take off and land.

3. A train station, even a large metropolitan "hub" station, requires far less infrastructure than an airport.

4. Trains are less affected by adverse weather conditions than planes.

I stand by my contention: Trains don't fall out of the sky. Planes have an advantage of speed, but not much else.

[EX500rider]

105. "But trains don't fall outta the sky" That does not make them safer

Trains are three times more dangerous than flying but safer than traveling by car (which is 40 times more risky than flying)

https://www.boston.com/travel/travel/2014/03/27/plane-or-train-travel-safer/

[orthoclad]

29. We subsidize the air industry and let rail rot.

I hate airports. I hate TSA thugs. I hate crammed, tiny seats and being imprisoned in sky tuna cans.

Rail used to be a real pleasure for travel. Affordable, room to move, dining car, club car, scenery.

[Tansy_Gold]

36. I love train travel.

I have a cross-country trip coming up in a few months and I'm already thinking about going by train if at all possible rather than flying.

[orthoclad]

79. Train travel was far better

as recently as the 80s.
There is no more dining car on Amtrak, iirc.
Last time I took Amtrak it was awful. But still better than flying.

[Tansy_Gold]

80. Amtrak has dining cars on some routes

I just looked.

As an exclusive, complimentary offering for customers traveling in First Class private rooms, traditional dining service is provided in the Dining Car

on select routes.

Dining car service is also apparently available to coach passengers for additional cost, but I didn't look that up.

Plus:

Most Amtrak routes offer Café service, with a variety of meals, snacks and beverages for sale. Customers in all classes of service are invited to the Café and service is available from early morning until late at night.

The Café service menu isn't extensive, but it's also not exorbitantly priced. For comparison, a bag of Miss Vickie's potato chips is $2.00, which is the same price I paid at Jersey Mike's last week.

[orthoclad]

96. "Cafe service" is awful.

I'd rather bring a sandwich and my own coffee. It's like airline quality and price. I passed on it last time I saw the cafe service.

Dining car, standard on trains in the 60s, was linen tablecloths and gourmet food. I recall trout and wild rice. They played to richies traveling city-to-city, but you could still get burgers and fries.

The biggest difference with air is that you could move around and stretch, car-to-car, and the seats were roomy enough to sleep in. Plus, you don't fall 20,000+ feet if there's trouble. I was on a train that got held up with track trouble once for an hour or so. The conductor brought a mike over and got me to play on the intercom. (the other passengers might not have seen that as a good thing, I wisely didn't quit my day job (grin) ).

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

32. I'll consider trains when they can get me to LA in 5 hours

For under 500 bucks. Until trains can do that they aren't a viable alternative.

[A HERETIC I AM]

78. The technology exists to get you there in 2 hours....

but it wouldn't necessarily be called a train. Elon Musk is on the right track (pun intended) with his "Hyperloop" concept.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain

I say if a high speed ground based system is to be constructed, we jump ahead in technology and go this route.



Of course we prefer to throw money at defense contractors by the boxcar load to the tune of almost a trillion dollars per year, so that's why we really can't have nice things in this country. Perhaps if we said it was a National Defense project, it could get funded!

[Voltaire2]

101. Hyperloop was utter bullshit.

It was never serious. Another Musk whimsy. The concept has been around for a long time, the technical problems have never been resolved. Expensive low capacity low reliability system.

[A HERETIC I AM]

104. Until it isn't

Sure there are technological issues to resolve but the idea is sound and should be pursued.

“We tried that and it didn’t work” is a defeatist way of going about things. It should always be followed with

“Well, you obviously fucked it up and we will do it right this time. “

[Ocelot II]

27. A lot of people are talking about it - there's even a netflix documentary.

https://www.netflix.com/TITle/81272421

[vanlassie]

28. How am I going to get to Europe on a train?

✈️✈️✈️

[orthoclad]

30. Take a boat.

[edhopper]

33. Airbus

Makes good planes

[Wonder Why]

35. Take this one!

https://www.wallpaperup.com/848937/fantasy_flying_train_steampunk.html

[vanlassie]

50. Hahaha!

I fly Virgin, and I have been blissfully unaware if it was one or another. I DO love those Dreamliners… does Boeing make those?

[EX500rider]

106. yes

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner is an American wide-body jet airliner developed and manufactured by Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

[montanacowboy]

31. You hit the nail on the head

My sister is going to Europe this fall and every plane out of SEATAC is a Boeing. Used to be able to get Icelandic Air who fly Airbus, but no more. She is going to fly down to SFO just to take an airbus. I would never trust a Boeing plane again. They were so smug when they moved that plant to SC.

When McDonnell Douglas was in business they had doors that kept blowing off and found the doors never latched. Even after they were told to fix it, still doors that didn't latch. They went Bankrupt over it and guess what? Boeing bought them.

[brooklynite]

37. Your sister wasn't going to Europe on a 737...

There are no significant problems found in the 777 or 787.

[montanacowboy]

41. If it's Boeing she ain't going

can't trust any of their planes now

[BannonsLiver]

71. Single aisles to Europe including the 737 is becoming more common

I’m surprised you are uninformed on that, and the general trouble at the South Carolina plant (which has been reported on for years now) given that you often attempt to present as an authority on aviation.

[brooklynite]

72. 737s from the east coast to Europe are doable. Not from Seattle.

And as I pointed out earlier today, the flaw has been identified as occurring in the Renton facility.

[RobinA]

85. The 787

is the most godawful uncomfortable plane I ever flew in. And this with the extra legroom seats.

[brooklynite]

86. Is that the plane or the airline?

[EX500rider]

92. Exactly, airlines can order them in either high or low density layouts

[ArkansasDemocrat1]

89. 787 battery fires aren't significant?

[EX500rider]

107. Yes & no, they were a issue but their were no fatalities because of them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Boeing_787_Dreamliner_grounding

[VMA131Marine]

39. The problem was what preceded the HQ move

Boeing merged with McDonnell-Douglas in 1997 when McD-D was being destroyed by the bean counters running the company at the time. Those people then weaseled their way into Boeing leadership and the emphasis on engineering gave way to cost-cutting and “shareholder value.”

[Hahn_Bikey]

62. Yep, you got it. Even Businessweek agrees with you

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-19/what-s-wrong-with-boeing-ba-how-its-corporate-culture-changed-over-the-years?embedded-checkout=true

How Boeing’s Corporate Culture Started to Rot
Years of mechanical issues have been a long time coming.
Boeing purchased McDonnell Douglas and McDonnell Douglas was the also-ran to Boeing's leader for much of the commercial jet age. That brought in McDonnell Douglas leaders who were trained more in the free cash flow approach to management. And especially one leader, Harry Stonecipher, who had been a disciple of Jack Welch. And it was very much raise the stock price, buybacks, not as much investing for the future. And if you recall, the late ‘90s was also the time when Jack Welch was seen as the paragon of corporate culture.

[moondust]

40. QA?

Maybe Quality Assurance was reduced in order to boost profit margins/stock price and thus enrich executives/investors.

[lostnfound]

42. In the late 90s I went though their factory and told them "this is a national pride"

Back then, they really had their act together. Phil Condit was perfectly suited for the job, and the company was proud and careful and well-staffed with engineers. He resigned a few years later for a dumb reason, not even his fault.

I think they lost too many experienced engineers and it’s tough to rebuild. Also, MBAs are fine and useful, but balance in upper management is essential.

Many people have said similar things.

[AKwannabe]

67. They contract most of the engineers now

I know many here in Seattle.
A contracted person is not always a good employee. Many get to work from home all the time and aren’t really managed. How do they have pride in their work and company??
Especially if their contract isn’t being renewed??? Or they are only contracted for twelve months. Turn over abounds!

[GenThePerservering]

93. Working from home is not a 'bad' employee NT

[AKwannabe]

98. Contracted employees was the topic

Don’t take it personal.

[lostnfound]

99. Wow. That's a problem

Working from home is fine for many disciplines but aircraft engineers need mentoring, access to aircraft, exposure to manufacturing… Never imagined Boeing engineers as mainly contractors.

[Scruffy1]

43. The plug door on the 737 Max and 737-900 are the same.

It's seen over 11,000,000 hours of service and there is no way it's coming off if it's installed correctly. It's an emergency door without the chute attachment. If the fleet is checked for missing or loose bolts t's good to go. I don't know how it happened but do know the design is good and any defects were caused by human error.

[keep_left]

44. There is definitely something to what you are saying, though the ultimate cause...

...of the Alaska Airlines near-disaster will no doubt be found to be related to multiple factors (as most engineering-related failures commonly are). But I have been following the Boeing "outsourcing story" for a number of years now, and I was also fortunate enough to have a neighbor who worked for their defense division in MO before jumping ship just ahead of massive downsizing (and a company move to VA). I got quite an earful from him about what had been going on for many years at Boeing, and it does indeed seem that there is truth to what many have said: the bean-counters from McDonnell-Douglas got the upper hand in the merger with Boeing, and the engineers ended up being ruled by the accountants.

[GiqueCee]

48. Corporatists...

... destroy everything they touch.

[PennRalphie]

49. USAir 427

Boeing has had issues since the 90’s when 2 of their 737’s crashed due to rudder issues. USAir, bought by American, went to Airbus after the crash here in Pittsburgh in 1994.

Boeing obviously is not engineering their planes correctly.

[keep_left]

53. To be fair to Boeing, the 737 rudder issues were caused by a serious flaw in a part...

...made by a subcontractor. While Boeing was ultimately responsible (it was their plane and they signed off on it), they didn't make the part (a rudder servo valve). Parker Hannifin made the rudder control system that failed on those 737s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues

It is Boeing's more recent planes, in particular the 737 MAX series, that are under highly deserved scrutiny for multiple incidents and failures.

[PennRalphie]

57. Boeing designed the failed part and subbed out the manufacturing.

Boeing was responsible. USAir obviously felt that way when they went to Airbus after that horrific crash.

If you ever wish to read a horribly tragic story, just google Weaver family USAir 427.

[keep_left]

61. Well, like I said, it was their plane and they signed off on it. I do know...

...that Parker Hannifin and Boeing engaged in endless legal wrangling over what were clear and obvious issues. Of course, no one wanted to accept fault in the matter. Parker Hannifin was particularly obstinate, and it took years to resolve. As I recall, the NTSB investigation was the longest and most expensive case in their history (at the time).

[Grumpy Old Guy]

52. Yes! K&R

[cbabe]

55. Troubles for years

https://www.popularmechanics.com › military › aviation › a26627917 › air-force-kc-461-deliveries-trash-boeing

Air Force Halts Tanker Deliveries After Finding Planes Are Full of Trash

Roper also stated the Air Force would inspect the planes it has already accepted. Boeing was supposed to deliver 18 KC-46

[pfitz59]

63. The AF would inspect the planes

and find trash, random nuts and bolts, missing rivets, bad wiring... They essentially had to gut the planes and rebuild them themselves.

[cbabe]

70. Yes. A veritable mess.

[LymphocyteLover]

58. makes sense to me-- rightwing capitalism fuckery strikes again

[dalton99a]

69. Boeing's manufacturing, ethical lapses go back decades

https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/boeings-manufacturing-ethical-lapses-go-back-decades/

Boeing’s manufacturing, ethical lapses go back decades
Jan. 22, 2024 at 2:19 pm
By Andy Pasztor

Probes of the recent Boeing 737 MAX cabin blowout must expand far beyond safety practices and manufacturing controls. Investigators should scrutinize persistent company failures over the past four decades to become more transparent and law-abiding.

Before this month’s cabin blowout on an Alaska Airlines 737 MAX 9 jet — which ripped the shirt off a teenage boy, damaged rows of seats near the door-sized hole and tore off part of the captain’s headset — Boeing already was reeling from a series of manufacturing flaws. Jetliner problems included improperly drilled holes, defective parts and potentially loose bolts in rudder-control systems.

Since the early 1980s, Boeing has been punished for an equally long list of ethical and criminal transgressions. They ranged from illegally snaring restricted Pentagon planning documents to stealing a rival’s rocket development plans.

After each legal stumble, Boeing had a strikingly similar response. Practically every public mea culpa by a top company executive, whether just a few months or several years apart, eventually was followed by another serious violation and even more fervent pledges to reform.

...

[republianmushroom]

75. The bottom line, GREED

[orthoclad]

97. And lack of regulation

Gotta be as incompetent and greedy as the next guy when regulation gets captured. Competition and "market forces".

[Ocelot II]

76. New article in Seattle Times: Whistleblower says Boeing installed the plug door wrong,

the fault is Boeing's, not Spirit's. And then the installation was not properly inspected or documented.

The self-described Boeing insider said company records show four bolts that prevent the door plug from sliding up off the door frame stop pads that take the pressurization loads in flight, “were not installed when Boeing delivered the airplane.” the whistleblower stated. “Our own records reflect this.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-not-spirit-mis-installed-piece-that-blew-off-alaska-max-9-jet/#:~:text=Ed%20Pierson%2C%20a%20former%20manager,of%20the%20work%20%E2%80%9Cis%20very

[Deep State Witch]

77. I Heard Someone Say Last Night

On MSNBC that Nikki Haley had joined the Boeing BOD when she left the UN. Why hasn't there been more discussion about this?

[IronLionZion]

82. As long as they found "efficiencies" and "synergies" and "ROI" with this "paradigm shift"

then "it's a win-win", so let's "think outside the box" and "move quickly and break things" through "creative destruction".

These "thought leaders" are real "agents of change". Go "run this to ground" and "deal with it".

Doors flying off mid-air are just "sunk costs" since we are "risk takers" and "dare to dream".

Don't forget to clock out for the company's holiday potluck. You don't need a union because we're a family here.

[KT2000]

84. Boeing was converted

by the bean counters in a methodical fashion. This was documented in a book called "Turbulence: Boeing and the State of American Workers and Managers"
They had to break the bonds and loyalties that held the company together with those intangibles. For employees, competition and fear makes more profit.

[GenThePerservering]

94. No one wants to talk about why Boeing planes fail Ummm...HUH?

I live in Boeing country and that's ALL that is being talked about - the mismanagement that has happened since Boeing sold out in 2001.

[edhopper]

95. You's be surprized how little

that conversation goes out to the rest of the country.

[Emile]

100. Three words: PISS POOR MANAGEMENT