General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGen Z Is Listening to What Netanyahu Is Saying. Is Biden?
From Ezra Klein:
Asked whether they sympathize more with the Israelis or the Palestinians, 63 percent of Americans 65 and older said the Israelis. Among those aged 18 to 29, 27 percent sympathized more with Israelis.
Seventy percent of those 65 and up supported additional aid to Israel. Fifty-five percent of people 18 to 29 opposed it.
Asked whether Israel should end its military campaign, even if Hamas has not been fully eliminated, in order to spare civilians, 67 percent 18 to 29 said they should. Only 30 percent 65 and up agreed.
Asked whether Israel is seriously interested in peace, 54 percent over age 65 said it was. Fifty-nine percent 18 to 29 said it wasnt.
This is crude, but I think there are, roughly, three generations in terms of American sentiment toward Israel. There are older Americans who knew Israel when it was young. They remember the impossibility and wonder of its creation. They remember the wars its neighbors launched to eradicate it and the seeming miracle of its survival and of all that it then built. This generation still feels Israels vulnerability. They still feel its possibility. This is Joe Bidens generation. It is a great gift for Israel that it still, improbably, controls American politics.
Then theres what I think of as the straddle generation. This is my generation. We only ever knew Israel as the strongest military power in the region. A nuclear Israel. An Israel that occupied Palestinian territories, sometimes brutally. But we also knew an Israel that seemed to be trying to find its way toward peace and coexistence. We knew the Israel of Yitzhak Rabin and Ehud Barak. We saw that the collapse of the 2000 Camp David summit was met by the second intifada, by years of suicide bombers rather than years of counteroffers. We also watched Israel build settlements across the West Bank, creating a one-state reality even as it spoke of a two-state solution. Polling shows, predictably, that our views of Israel are more mixed.
Then theres younger Americans. They know only Benjamin Netanyahus Israel. He has, after all, been prime minister almost continuously since 2009. They know an Israel that is the strongest country in the region, by far. They know an Israel where messianic ethnonationalists serve in the cabinet. They know an Israel that controls Palestinian life and land and intends to keep it that way. They see this as simpler: a country that oppresses and a people that is oppressed. They are not entirely right too little agency is offered to Palestinians in this telling but they are not entirely wrong.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/26/opinion/netanyahu-biden-israel-gaza.html
Ferrets are Cool
(21,156 posts)Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #1)
Name removed Message auto-removed
LiberalFighter
(52,210 posts)I seriously doubt Biden is fully behind what Israel is doing. Especially with Netanyahu.
womanofthehills
(8,925 posts)Nancy Pelosi: Protesters calling for a ceasefire in Gaza "is Mr. Putin's message... Make no mistake, this is directly connected to what he would like to see...
"I think some of these protesters are spontaneous and organic and sincere. Some I think are connected to Russia."
Link to tweet
?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ
betsuni
(26,353 posts)Orrex
(63,458 posts)Instead, it makes the entirely correct statement that generations form their opinions based on their experiences, and none has a monopoly on truth when a complex, nuanced, multifaceted situation is unfolding. Not even the one with which you or I might agree.
Its ageist to declare GenZs opinions invalid simply because they dont align with Bidens policy decisions and official statements.
KPN
(15,741 posts)of different generational perspectives that hit closer and more directly at home. Not that the outcome of the current crisis wont have direct and consequentially significant effects here in America ultimately; it certainly will politically. Possibly in this years election. Ignore different generational perspective at great risk!
NH Ethylene
(30,848 posts)They are forming opinions based on emotions. It's not an intellectual difference. It's a difference in tolerance for the genocidal actions of Israel. It's very likely that Biden shares their abhorrence for the bombing of innocent civilians, but he would be slaughtered politically if he condemned Israel.
I suspect the shift in attitudes toward Israel will continue over time if they don't get new leadership that will work toward a two-state solution.
tritsofme
(17,639 posts)That is patently ridiculous nonsense.
RAB910
(3,637 posts)Older people tend to get their news from MSM or the right-wing propaganda machine. Both of those avenues have a strong pro-Israel bias (in the case of the propaganda machine, more of an anti-Arab/anti-Muslim bias). So naturally, those people are more pro-Israel. Younger people get their news from the internet and social media, which is much harder to control. So, the Palestinian side of the story is known to younger people, as well as Israel's war crimes and genocide (which isn't reported by the MSM or RWPM for the most part).
When you know everything that is going on and the history of the region, it's nearly impossible to justify Israel's wanton killing and talk of yet more illegal land grabs.
Sugarcoated
(7,765 posts)You are especially susceptible to propaganda
Celerity
(44,630 posts)groups who so often push agendas and stances designed to attack, discredit, and neutralise the progressive and/or further left environs of our Party (both elected members and our voters), along with (often with a great deal of overlap between the groups) taking positions that I consider to be reactionary, and/or denigrating us younger folk, and/or corporate/status quo-promoting stances (at least in outcome if not also in intent, especially when it comes to healthcare, trade, energy, and tertiary education debt), etc etc.
These are positions and projections that most definitely fall into the propaganda sphere (propaganda is not a term that can only applied to things that a person disagrees with). DU is also an extremely unrepresentative slice of people when it comes to the overall makeup of both our Party (especially in terms of age) and the greater American electorate.
Yet I have seen, over the 5 and half years I have been here, a myriad number of DU posters proudly proclaim that DU is their only (or at least main) source of news and information.
so your statement:
You are especially susceptible to propaganda
faces up as a problematic critique, IMHO.
Its a spot on evaluation of DU. 💀🤙
redqueen
(115,113 posts)It's good to not just examine but get out of our little bubbles - thanks for doing such a good job describing this one.
Patton French
(835 posts)who dont fall prey to the political fad of the day.
betsuni
(26,353 posts)Celerity
(44,630 posts)Patton French
(835 posts)Patton French
(835 posts)We old cohorts love all.
Crunchy Frog
(26,753 posts)I can remember 10 years ago, when russia first attacked Ukraine, a large percentage of this "wise and pragmatic group" were saying unbelievably awful things including actually taking Putin's side against Obama.
I've seen plenty of bad takes from the DU collective wisdom over the years. And bullying. God help anyone who had the temerity to question whatever the DU conventional wisdom had decided.
It's a good site with a lot of good people, but I've definitely expanded my range of information sources.
DontBelieveEastisEas
(568 posts)He says,
"When you mostly get news off the internet
You are especially susceptible to propaganda""
And you say,
"DU is on the internet"
And characterize it as propaganda.
So, it seems his statement does not face a critique, but rather your agreement.
womanofthehills
(8,925 posts)More independent journalists are on social media - while the main stream news has to cater to big pharma, Corporations, Blackrock, Vanguard.
uponit7771
(90,444 posts)EX500rider
(10,955 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(5,039 posts)LeftInTX
(26,357 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(5,039 posts)I teach Gen Z. They follow news outlets on social media.
LeftInTX
(26,357 posts)It was full of crazy young people spouting nonsense on TikTok, none of it was true. None of it.
The case has been solved, but for awhile everyone "knew" what had happened. It was full of psychics and crazy stuff. All BS. People also lied and said they knew the couple. (The BF was also murdered) That was also BS too.
It was all on TikTok. Videos were full of annoying sound effects too. One person put in gunshots in the background as evidence that they witnessed the crime. It was BS.
SoFlaBro
(2,331 posts)EX500rider
(10,955 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(5,039 posts)And, just like everywhere, there is solid information there, too.
EX500rider
(10,955 posts)uponit7771
(90,444 posts)EX500rider
(10,955 posts)They restrict everything
uponit7771
(90,444 posts)womanofthehills
(8,925 posts)And everyone has a podcast now. Plus, on Twitter you can follow all our politicians, world independent journalists and world leaders. You can follow Palestinian journalists & photographers and Israels newspapers. You can find the truth that you often cant find on our cable stations.
Look at this article from the Times of Israel - from the web
https://www.timesofisrael.com/14-kids-under-10-25-people-over-80-up-to-date-breakdown-of-oct-7-victims-we-know-about/
womanofthehills
(8,925 posts)Many independent journalists are now on podcasts on Spotify, Rumble, Apple Podcasts, etc & have NO corporate sponsors- funded by their listeners and many have more listeners than cable news.
AZSkiffyGeek
(11,462 posts)Lonestarblue
(10,584 posts)As I read more about the deprivations forced on Palestinians in Gaza and the continued encroachment by right-wing settlers in the West Bank, and more recently returning a corrupt Netanyahu to power, I began to lose respect for Israel. Their destruction and disproportionate war against innocent civilians in Gaza has caused me to lose even more respect. I will begin to respect Israelis again when they rid themselves of Netanyahu and his greedy, rapacious right-wing government.
Xavier Breath
(3,836 posts)GrapesOfWrath
(525 posts)n/t
uponit7771
(90,444 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)A Chinese propaganda outlet.
I presume most folks here know China and Russia are working together to bring down the US.
While I agree in part about age differences and everyones experience with Israels history, its undeniable that propaganda is insidiously undermining actual facts in regards to the I/P conflict.
Any analysis that disregards the impact of Kremlin and Chinese propaganda is deeply flawed. It started 10/7 almost to the minute as Hamas was attacking, and the evidence that its a coordinated effort is unmistakable
TeamProg
(6,630 posts)So Netanyahu is in cahoots with China and Russia to bring down the USA. Got it.
W_HAMILTON
(7,930 posts)No, Netanyahu is not "in cahoots with China and Russia to bring down the USA."
Netanyahu is trying to root out those responsible for one of the worst attacks on his nation to ensure that it never happens again, and the usual propaganda suspects (Russia, China, etc.) along with their ignorant useful idiots on social media are trying to paint that as """genocide""" and other idiocy.
I don't agree with Netanyahu on much of anything, but to fault him for going to war after what Hamas did on October 7th is fucking ridiculous. If another nation launched unprovoked attacks that killed (the equivalent) of almost 50,000 of our citizens, what do you think we -- or any other nation -- would do?
Crunchy Frog
(26,753 posts)which he evidently paid no attention to.
W_HAMILTON
(7,930 posts)Or are you saying that he should have taken preemptive measures to take out Hamas before they launched their attack? Which I'm guessing you're not doing...
Crunchy Frog
(26,753 posts)And I'm not saying what you're claiming I am.
It could have been stopped with basic security measures, like keeping forces stationed along the border instead of in the West Bank to protect settlers while they were harassing Palestinians and driving them from their homes.
The terrorists plans were well known in advance, so it should have been pretty straightforward to counter them. It's my understanding that plenty of Israelis blame him too.
https://www.npr.org/2023/11/09/1211724903/amid-plummeting-approval-ratings-he-s-blamed-those-around-him#:~:text=Live%20Sessions-,More%20Israelis%20blame%20Netanyahu%20for%20security%20lapses%20that%20led%20to,security%20lapses%20on%20Oct%207.
Celerity
(44,630 posts)you said
and
He needs to root out himself:
For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces
The premiers policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group. The idea was to prevent Abbas or anyone else in the Palestinian Authoritys West Bank government from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad. Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.
Israeli officials said these permits, which allow Gazan laborers to earn higher salaries than they would in the enclave, were a powerful tool to help preserve calm. Toward the end of Netanyahus fifth government in 2021, approximately 2,000-3,000 work permits were issued to Gazans. This number climbed to 5,000 and, during the Bennett-Lapid government, rose sharply to 10,000.
Since Netanyahu returned to power in January 2023, the number of work permits has soared to nearly 20,000. Additionally, since 2014, Netanyahu-led governments have practically turned a blind eye to the incendiary balloons and rocket fire from Gaza. Meanwhile, Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018, in order to maintain its fragile ceasefire with the Hamas rulers of the Strip.
snip
Buying Quiet: Inside the Israeli Plan That Propped Up Hamas
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas (but not too strong) would keep the peace and reduce pressure for a Palestinian state.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html
Just weeks before Hamas launched the deadly Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, the head of Mossad arrived in Doha, Qatar, for a meeting with Qatari officials. For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them. During his meetings in September with the Qatari officials, according to several people familiar with the secret discussions, the Mossad chief, David Barnea, was asked a question that had not been on the agenda:
Did Israel want the payments to continue? Mr. Netanyahus government had recently decided to continue the policy, so Mr. Barnea said yes. The Israeli government still welcomed the money from Doha. Allowing the payments billions of dollars over roughly a decade was a gamble by Mr. Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the Oct. 7 attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting. The Qatari payments, while ostensibly a secret, have been widely known and discussed in the Israeli news media for years.
Mr. Netanyahus critics disparage them as part of a strategy of buying quiet, and the policy is in the middle of a ruthless reassessment following the attacks. Mr. Netanyahu has lashed back at that criticism, calling the suggestion that he tried to empower Hamas ridiculous. In interviews with more than two dozen current and former Israeli, American and Qatari officials, and officials from other Middle Eastern governments, The New York Times unearthed new details about the origins of the policy, the controversies that erupted inside the Israeli government and the lengths that Mr. Netanyahu went to in order to shield the Qataris from criticism and keep the money flowing.
The payments were part of a string of decisions by Israeli political leaders, military officers and intelligence officials all based on the fundamentally flawed assessment that Hamas was neither interested in nor capable of a large-scale attack. The Times has previously reported on intelligence failures and other faulty assumptions that preceded the attacks. Even as the Israeli military obtained battle plans for a Hamas invasion and analysts observed significant terrorism exercises just over the border in Gaza, the payments continued. For years, Israeli intelligence officers even escorted a Qatari official into Gaza, where he doled out money from suitcases filled with millions of dollars.
snip
Martin Eden
(12,962 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 27, 2024, 08:44 AM - Edit history (1)
Obviously, the Israeli prime minister and his intelligence services were tragically mistaken.
Was it really that difficult to assess the intent of Hamas, given their sworn goal to eradicate the Jewish state? While the cash and the work permits marginally improved conditions in the Gaza strip, it hardly satisfied the statehood aspirations of the Palestinian people or resolved the overall conflict evidenced by the ongoing violent flare-ups in Jerusalem and the West Bank.
The conflict is one of seemingly irreconcilable differences between two peoples who both want the same relatively small land of what was once Palestine on older maps, but is now Israel.
How can this be resolved, especially given the historical religious significance of Jerusalem as the center of a Holy Land for Jews, Muslims, and Christians?
Palestinians are unwilling to accept disapora, departing their homeland with their people scattered as residents into other Arab countries.
The Jewish people who survived the Holocaust had historical roots in the Holy Land, and understandably believed their future depended on having their own nation state where they would not be a minority subject to shifting tides of prejudice against them.
As an American born in 1957 who has followed politics since the Vietnam War, the only solution I can think of to resolve this conflict is for the two peoples to learn to live together peacefully in a single nation.
I have never been religious, but do have some understanding of the compelling significance Jerusalem and the Holy Land has for the people of all three major Abrahamic religions. If they truly embrace the core tenets of their faiths which all worship the monotheistic God of Abraham, should not Jerusalem be an international city of peace and brotherhood?
Yes, I know the two-state solution has long been embraced by the United States and much of the international community, but I really don't see ANY Israeli government forcibly removing West Bank settlers from their homes (some of which have been lived in for generations) -- especially as a series of events triggered by the Oct 7 atrocity committed by Hamas.
Perhaps, almost certainly, the single state of peace and brotherhood is an even more unlikely scenario.
And so we go on. The long history of horrible violence between the faithful is an inescapable feature of human civilization.
W_HAMILTON
(7,930 posts)Hamas is responsible for what Hamas did -- full stop.
PS - When people say that those criticizing Israel aren't pro-Gaza, they are pro-Hamas, this is *exactly* why they say that. Why can you not simply attack Hamas with the same fervor that you do Netanyahu/Israel? Fact of the matter is, if Hamas didn't launch its attacks on October 7th, there would be no war right now. Can you even acknowledge that simple fact?
womanofthehills
(8,925 posts)Link to tweet
?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ
Celerity
(44,630 posts)As for the rest, I have repeatedly condemned Hamas and their actions since this all kicked off.
LiberalFighter
(52,210 posts)I disagree with another saying that those in the first group are getting their news from the right-wing MSM. Really? Those saying that are biased.
erodriguez
(676 posts)because they are reporting on the same atrocities.
Please tell us what media source is good?
KPN
(15,741 posts)and most of the news media. Are you affected by it? Im guessing not - for the most part. Why? Because most here at DU think for themselves and sift through the chaff to know the truth. Most educated people do as well regardless of their political identities.
The TikTok argument is BS.
redqueen
(115,113 posts)On balance its benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.
The same can no longer be said about twitter.
LeftInTX
(26,357 posts)I'm following a true crime case and the way the platform is set up, it encourages tons of fake stuff and embellishments.
Any platform can propagate fake, but TikTok focuses on heavily edited repeating short videos. It seems designed for entertainment more than anything.
KPN
(15,741 posts)it for what it is as opposed to 100% fact. Just like you and I do with the social and news media daily.
It's not TikTok that's a problem. It's the GQPs attack on education!
womanofthehills
(8,925 posts)You can follow whoever you want - President Obama or Brazils Lula, The Times of Israel or Palestinian journalists, all your favorite reporters and authors, biologists, researchers etc.
Why would anyone not want the vast knowledge available on Twitter?
limbicnuminousity
(1,409 posts)among some to turn to sources like tik-tok, tumblr, reddit and the like in search of first-hand accounts. Some may be gullible and take the first thing they hear and take it as the truth. But some cross-reference looking for consistency in accounts.
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,039 posts)but not on other platforms?
I will fully agree that the algorithm on TicTok gives you what you want to hear, but something is not automatically wrong and propaganda because it's on TicTok.
womanofthehills
(8,925 posts)womanofthehills
(8,925 posts)And the majority of Twitter users are young. Young people I know are big into podcasts.
RainCaster
(11,051 posts)I'm part of that older (boomer) generation who has watched Israel spout "never again" about how they were treated by Germany, while remaining silent about ethnic cleansing in Bosnia. So I am more aligned with Gen Z on this issue.
KPN
(15,741 posts)Lunabell
(6,280 posts)But, some who embrace hamas are sadly mistaken. I just want both people to have a homeland and live in peace. I think there really needs to be a 2 state solution with assurances by Israel and the Palestinians that both deserve permanent homes.
Happy Hoosier
(7,641 posts)Kinda tired of this stuff.
JI7
(89,424 posts)betsuni
(26,353 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,190 posts)then why does Hamas get deaf ears?
Hermit-The-Prog
(34,313 posts)judy
(1,942 posts)What these "older people" are missing, is that if you support Israel, and I mean the people of Israel not the right-wing government, you should be against the killing of at least 25,000 people in Gaza, even if you think Palestinians should all disappear. This massacre, will bring on decades of hate against Israel, and subsequent vows of revenge. How can anyone support this no matter at what age?
That said, the Palestinian people who are just trying to live their lives in peace, who are of many different religions, have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
TheKentuckian
(25,190 posts)would you anticipate from his opposition?
What plausible leader of any nation in like circumstances would not go hammer and tongs against such a threat?
All this screeching is delusional and hypocritical at best and it is very difficult to see how it is only the Jews that have the expectation of stiff upper lipping anything like a 10/7 ever.
Maybe several genocidal wars and decades of terrorist attacks don't spread the love too well either?
Israelis are a far more patient people than we are. No question that Gaza would have been a parking lot long ago in the same spot if it was us, don't even try to front on that shit.
uponit7771
(90,444 posts)LeftInTX
(26,357 posts)Modi is a RW provoker. Long history.
uponit7771
(90,444 posts)... progressive with anything other than what he thinks will work for him.
LeftInTX
(26,357 posts)Different political party.
Totally different leader.
Not RW.
uponit7771
(90,444 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,190 posts)Hitting hard in Kashmir and Balakot mixed with a lot of counter terrorism efforts and probably some luck must be what you mean.
uponit7771
(90,444 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,190 posts)uponit7771
(90,444 posts)judy
(1,942 posts)What these "older people" are missing, is that if you support Israel, and I mean the people of Israel not the right-wing government, you should be against the killing of at least 25,000 people in Gaza. This massacre, will bring on decades of hate against Israel, and subsequent vows of revenge. How can anyone support this no matter at what age?
elias7
(4,087 posts)And Jews have been subjected to centuries of hate against them. The problem is the massacre against Israel by Gaza on 10/7 garnered massive support among the left starting on day one, before there was any kind of response. Israel tried to generate good will by allowing Qatar to fund Hamas and that blew up in their faces. I dont support the right wing policies of Israel, but with no agency given to the Palestinian people and to Hamas, they are being painted as the perpetual victim, yet they continue to spout their own words of genocide against the Jews and Israel, continue to hold hostages, continue to lob bombs into Israel, even during the periods of cease-fire How can anyone support this no matter at what age?
erodriguez
(676 posts)The Israel I have seen is not a democracy and hasn't been a good ally.
The US gives special support to Israel but it's getting grief in return because of its right wing apartheid government.
The US should follow the UN and start treating as just another country rather than it's big brother.
NoRethugFriends
(2,470 posts)erodriguez
(676 posts)The US became a democracy in 1965 when the voting rights act was passed. Until then it was very much an apartheid state just as Isreal currently.
EX500rider
(10,955 posts)The people of Gaza and the West Bank are not Israeli citizens
JohnSJ
(92,799 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,190 posts)are not Israel.
yardwork
(62,084 posts)You mean go along with Russia, China, Uganda. Iran, etc? I hope not.
Response to yardwork (Reply #35)
Post removed
KPN
(15,741 posts)Deep State Witch
(10,659 posts)Both Hamas and Iran have very active social engineering efforts aimed at sympathetic Westerners. I've seen postings that "Yemen hasn't attacked anyone, yet they're being attacked by the US" and other things that are aimed at generating sympathy for terrorists.
Not to say that the Israelis haven't gone overboard on their attacks in Gaza. They have. But a lot of people are falling into traps laid by our adversaries to garner sympathy and influence Western governments against Israel.
KPN
(15,741 posts)themselves like you and I when we use social media?
Deep State Witch
(10,659 posts)Most adults don't know how to analyze information and look at reliable sources, either.
KPN
(15,741 posts)We are saddled with many ignorants for sure and that is a challenge, but I don';t buy the notion that GenZ's protests against Netanyahu's approach to Gaza is based in ignorance -- of, for that matter, misunderstanding. I'm an older boomer and with GenZ on this one frankly.
Sugarcoated
(7,765 posts)KPN
(15,741 posts)were the case. There are a lot of them for sure, and its daunting ... but we outnumber them and can and will prevail in the long run. ... But back to the topic, as an older boomer, I'm with GenZ on this Gaza thing. They are thinking straight in my opinion, and they are simply using what they have to influence the future -- their voices, thew ability to organize, and the use of protest as a means to get their voices heard. Nothing wrong with that.
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,039 posts)There are plenty of people older than Gen Z pointing this out.
LeftInTX
(26,357 posts)All someone has to do is record it and send it out.
I don't know if Hamas is on TikTok........
I'm sure there are plenty in US who are also on Telegram. I was following it for awhile just out of curiosity.
The IDF is on Telegram.
Telegram is kinda like instagram, except there are no moderators.
Telegram is used by drug dealers.
I was following a case of a drug dealer who was murdered and he was on telegram advertising his drugs.
JohnSJ
(92,799 posts)betsuni
(26,353 posts)yardwork
(62,084 posts)Ezra Klein has been silly for decades and this is another silliness from him. Jeez.
Lulu KC
(2,623 posts)But I'm not sure our youngest generation believes that he sees it. Israel is not Netanyahu in the way that the U.S. is not Trump--but it's sure hard to tell sometimes in both cases. All kinds of nuance here, and that doesn't play well.
Thanks for sharing article. It does a good job of describing this situation. Joe is carrying a very big load.
stonecutter357
(12,711 posts)LexVegas
(6,143 posts)womanofthehills
(8,925 posts)And these images are unlike anything they have ever seen in their lives. Little girls with blown off legs screaming while drs remove rest of legs with no anesthesia.
W_HAMILTON
(7,930 posts)They are listening to what other idiots on social media like TikTok are saying about what he says, what Biden says, etc.
It's how they regularly get roped into short-sighted positions that only hurt the causes they claim to promote. See: the lies they believed about Hillary in 2016.
Sadly, many are just useful idiots that are easily duped by those acting in bad faith to manipulate them.
There is youthful idealism and then there is abject ignorance. When it comes to the Israel situation, many are falling into the latter here.
If a terrorist nation attacked us and killed (the equivalent) of almost 50,000 of our citizens, do they not think we would immediately be at war?
Crunchy Frog
(26,753 posts)W_HAMILTON
(7,930 posts)...(2) You didn't need to vote or need to be eligible to vote or to even be an American to join in the shameful chorus of lies that were being told about Hillary back then. Very much a "no single raindrop thinks it's responsible for the flood" situation.
elleng
(132,417 posts)Polls do not do justice to complex issues.
Bettie
(16,275 posts)anything that young people believe or have to say as worthless because...reasons.
I work not to dismiss younger people as I was dismissed as a young person. I'm not going to turn into a 'get off my lawn, you whippersnappers!' old lady.
TheKentuckian
(25,190 posts)Antisemitic, genocidal supporters of mutilations, rape, hostage taking, and massacring of all ages can piss up a rope.
Bettie
(16,275 posts)are wonderful, the best people in existence, right?
Fact is, I don't want to see civilians on either side dead, but apparently, one is required to wish death to all Palestinians, including newborn babies so as not to be labeled an antisemite.
TheKentuckian
(25,190 posts)to recognize that the threat posed by Hamas, Hezbollah, and posse rightfully must be put down.
Personally, I think Netanyahu is corrupt, criminal, incompetent, and a war monger in general but that doesn't translate to thinking he is wrong if he calls water wet.
The capacity for continued terrorist attacks must be broken.
If forced to choose which shitty hands to place myself in though, I'll take Likud over Hamas any day of the week, twice on Sunday, and thrice on Saturday.
womanofthehills
(8,925 posts)And have been doing for years. Israel is not innocent. We can go online and see old women dragged out of their lifelong homes while 2 young Jewish men with backpacks move right in, settlers blowing up farmers wells, cutting their olive trees, dragging their young kids away etc and yesterday groups of settlers were throwing rocks at Palestinians cars & beating them up for just driving.
Uncle Joe
(58,987 posts)Thanks for the thread cally.
bigtree
(86,360 posts)...the only question here that's relevant to these concerns expressed about the Israeli leader is whether Trump will get back in.
All of this falderal about Biden misses that important point.
uponit7771
(90,444 posts)relayerbob
(6,590 posts)Both Netanyahu and his supporters and Hamas have to go before we can hope for peace. Even then, it will be a difficult road. And, as usual, it's the people who suffer.