CNN Doctor Trolls Trump Over 'Dementia' Boast With 1 Simple Sentence (HuffPost)

[ificandream]

Dr. Jonathan Reiner put the former president on blast for his claim about cognitive testing.

CNN’s Dr. Jonathan Reiner isn’t buying Donald Trump’s repeated claims about acing a cognitive test.

The former president has insisted that the Montreal Cognitive Assessment (MoCA) ― aka the infamous “Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.” test he took in 2020, when he was president ― was “difficult.”

Reiner stepped in with a fact-check on Sunday.

“If you think a dementia screening test is very difficult, you may have early dementia,” Reiner, who is director of cardiac catheterization laboratories at George Washington University, wrote on X:

Read more: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-cognitive-jonathan-reiner_n_65b71ce2e4b014b873b18ee4

[ProudMNDemocrat]

1. Even I find a long list of words difficult

To remember. Especially if there are a dozen or so. Doesn't mean much when I repeat them in an order I am comfortable with. Who gets all of them correct anyway?

I partook in the Mayo Study of Aging for a number of years. A Nuerologist told me being I play games, do word puzzles on my phone, don't smoke, exercise, don't abuse alcohol, have no known family history of dementia, eat healthy, my developing dementia is slim.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

2. Here's the trick:

Think of a place you know well, like your home or office or childhood home or even a complex scene is a photo you love.

In your mind go to the first object that the first word makes you think of. Or perhaps put the object mentally in that spot. Equate the two in your mind. Then go to a second object for the second word, and so on. Then to remember the words you just have to remember a path through the scene, which is easier than just words.

[NJCher]

4. names

When I taught college speech classes, I showed students how to remember 30 names (average class size) and be able to repeat them in less than 50 minutes. The technique is somewhat similar to what you describe in your post, except in this case what you do to associate is find something about the person's face that relates to their name. I would use myself as an example and say my first name is "Cherie" and I wear cherry-colored lipstick most of the time. So cherry colored lips transfers to remembering the name "Cherie."

I think this technique is fun because it calls upon one's imagination. However, some people don't have much of an imagination so it's a bit of a challenge for them.

After we learned each person's name through an association, each class member would go around the room and say each fellow student's name. We did this on the first day of class as an ice breaker.

The truth about memory is that everyone has to peg something they want to remember in their brain. People think they are getting dementia when really what it is is that they haven't learned how to make their mind remember.

You wouldn't expect your computer to remember anything without saving it, would you? So likewise you shouldn't expect yourself to remember something unless you take the time and trouble to "save" it to your brain.

[Ilsa]

31. I was reading a few days ago that neuroscience

research has indicated that writing notes is much more effective at encoding and learning than typing into a tablet. Writing causes us to coordinate what goes into the notes and causes much more neuronal linking and coordination.

[summer_in_TX]

32. Taking notes by hand involves more brainwork by the note-taker than typically happens in someone typing it up.

The writer analyzes the words to make connections so he/she can organize what the speaker is saying. There's no way to keep up so what they put down is a synthesis of the points of the speaker. For many fluent keyboardists, they may get more down verbatim but they don't do as much mental work to do so.

Also, handwriting involves a different set of cues to the brain, the texture of the paper, the way the writing instrument flows over the paper, a variety of motions to get it down. The organizational system and/or layout used by the writer in their note-taking. Typing has more limited and repetitive motions which make a relatively negligible impression on the brain.

Rewriting is mere copying and pasting for a lot of the organization of computer notes, while handwritten rewriting is more laborious which involves more of the brain.

[Ilsa]

33. Thank you. Your explanation clarifies the differences

much better than I could. My comments were more about neuronal connectivity.

[summer_in_TX]

35. I taught dyslexic and "learning disabled" student for many years.

The differences in the way individual brains learn is fascinating.

[Unwind Your Mind]

44. Thank you, this discussion was very interesting

I have found that writing something down definitely helps me remember it.

I still use a paper calendar and handwritten lists to manage my busy self employed life.

I also make it fun by using the kindergarten Ticonderoga pencils

[reACTIONary]

27. The Art of Memory....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Memory

A revolutionary book about mnemonic techniques, and their relation to the history of philosophy, science, and literature

The ancient Greeks, to whom a trained memory was of vital importance—as it was to everyone before the invention of printing—created an elaborate memory system, based on a technique of impressing "places" and "images" on the mind. Inherited and recorded by the Romans, this art of memory passed into the European tradition, to be revived, in occult form, at the Renaissance, and particularly by the strange and remarkable genius, Giordano Bruno. Such is the main theme of Frances Yates's unique and distinctive book, in the course of which she sheds light on such diverse subjects as Dante's Divine Comedy, the form of the Shakespearian theater, and the history of ancient architecture. Aside from its intrinsic fascination, this book is an invaluable contribution to aesthetics and psychology, and to the history of philosophy, of science, and of literature.

https://www.amazon.com/Art-Memory-Frances-Yates/dp/1847922929



Giulio Camillo’s Theatre of Memory

[summer_in_TX]

36. Sounds fascinating!

Great discussion - especially for those beginning to notice our imperfect memories more and more frequently.

[mopinko]

3. they arent looking for 100% recall.

Last edited Mon Jan 29, 2024, 05:20 PM - Edit history (1)

not sure what a passing score is, but i suspect his was close to zero. it’s 5 unrelated words, and he came up w 5 that r all related in some way.

[JoseBalow]

11. Related because that was what he was seeing

at that moment during the press conference when he made it up on the spot...


Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

[mopinko]

19. good point.

[newdayneeded]

25. OMG your right!

I never thought of this.

[nolabear]

30. Exactly.

[Captain Zero]

9. My last one last week was 3 words.

Banana, Strawberry, Sunrise.

Maybe it was from a cocktail napkin?

[Warpy]

10. The cognitive test is only 3-5 words long

I find 5 excessive for most people but people with early dementia will struggle with 3, along with tasks like drawing a clock or interpreting a simple proverb. No one is told they pass or fail, so Motherfucker's stunt of naming what he saw in that room as proof of his superior cognitive function was ridiculous. My best guess says he passed, but just.

[Ms. Toad]

18. There are way fewer than a dozen.

The version I just checked at had 5 words. Contrary to Trump's assertion (what else is new), there are no bonus points for repeating them in order.

Even so, missing words - if that is the only thing you miss - won't cause you to fail.

Here's a version of the test: https://www.mdcalc.com/calc/10044/montreal-cognitive-assessment-moca

My spouse, who has diagnosed mild cognitive impairment and is on two alzheimer's medications passes it regularly. It really is designed to identify those who are already significantly impaired.

[Bev54]

5. What about if you are just a moron?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

6. Funny

[SleeplessinSoCal]

7. His cognitive test was rigged by his doctor.

The five words in a legitimate cognitive test have no relation to each other.

You are presented with a list of five unrelated words, such as 'apple,' 'chair,' 'sun,' 'book,' and 'dog.'

The trump test is designed to make it easy for his fragile ego and demented thinking. This struck me right off the bat. He brags no matter what. He's sick. How many MAGAts know this?

[robbob]

34. Those weren't the five words he repeated...

I’m pretty sure by the press conference he had already completely forgotten the five words used at the test. He looked around the room and saw a man, woman, person, camera and tv. Or something like that. He lies about everything; why would that occasion be any different?

[Mossfern]

8. I was part of an Alzheimer's study

because I have one APOE4 gene - no symptoms.

I would dread the portion of my visits that were the cognitive testing.
The test was very lengthy and had several portions - the list of words was very long and there were questions about the words on the list that didn't merely entail rote repetition, but relationships between the words. The part that was the most frustrating was the pattern matching (on my tests near the end.) The patterns were quite complex and being a perfectionist, I kept going back to make sure I was right. That made it so I didn't finish completely and I was very frustrated and concerned.

The administrator of the test told me not to be concerned, that I did very well.
I had brain MRI's and a PET scan of my brain as well as regular blood and urine tests. Because I had only one gene and my PET scan didn't show enough plaque, I was dismissed from the study led by a pharmaceutical company. That was fortunate as the drug they were studying ended up causing Alzheimer's symptoms!
I never got to the point of being given any medication. Dodged a bullet there.

[mopinko]

20. that sounds like a full neuro test, not this screening.

i’ve had a full neuro/psyche exam, and it is grueling. 3 hrs.

[Ms. Toad]

22. What you are describing is not the MOCA test Trump took.

It may be part of a much longer assessment that is is much more refined.

My spouse, who has mild cognitive impairment and is taking two alzheimer's medications, regularly passes the MOCA.

Her diagnosis was based on a much longer test (It's been a while, but I believe it was a day of tests, spread over two days). I found the more detailed tests fascinating. One especially struck me because it is so close to one of the things I observed in real life.

In real life, she tells tall tales - and really truly believes they are the gospel truth. Often it is just embelishment of details - like one she tells about a doctor using a straw to suck up the urine off of the paper covering the examining table. Never happened. But she absolutely believes it did. Her grandmother was fully alert until she died - she just lost her ability to use words, but she was alert and responded with gibberish when anyone entered the room or spoke to her. My spouse tells the story as her being comatose for years.
Sometimes she swaps roles with the star of the story - she has a first person story she tells about a trip we took - about something that happened to me (not to her).

On the test, she was asked to look at a picture, put the picture away, and then draw it from memory. On the first drawing she made several errors. No big deal. But the fascinating thing to me was that every picture after that accurately reproduced the first drawing she made. The exact same thing I see happening in her tall tales. Sometime early on (usually within a month of the event) she tells the tall tale - and every time after that she tells it the exact same way. If I (or anyone else) challenges her version, she insists that she is correct; it is the other person who is misremembering it. I know it isn't - but it feels a bit like gaslighting to me - so I was grateful for the recent confirmation by her sister that I really was accurately remembering the last few years of her grandmother's life.

There were several other things in the test which mirrored the observations I had made - the ones which triggered me asking her to get tested in the first place.

[Maru Kitteh]

29. Caregiving is SO hard, and thankless. So thank you.

Take advantage of every resource you are able. Keep a journal together. Enjoy today even while planning for tomorrow. We all need each other.

/> cliches

All kidding aside - seriously, we really do all need each other so thank you for what you are doing. It matters.

[Blue Owl]

12. K&R

[llmart]

13. Boasting about his test scores...

The guy also boasts about being a billionaire. Anyone who believes anything this sicko says needs serious help themselves. Every thing out of his mouth is a lie.

[tom_kelly]

17. It doesn't end

He's a great golfer, too - the long standing Maralargo club champion.

[dchill]

14. That was my thought, too.

[SidneyR]

15. The Medicare wellness test on cognition

is pretty frustrating. I was never good at numbers--math was always my worst subject--so trying to count backwards from 100 by seven was actually not that easy.

[Ms. Toad]

23. That's the same test Trump took.

So - did you pass, putting you in the top 2% of the country?

[nocoincidences]

26. That is a very complex test, actually.

It requires basic math, subtraction, remembering numbers short-term, while you manipulate them in the subtraction operation. And it goes on for 5-6 operations. These are fundamental cognitive skills that are frequently affected first during the onset of dementia.

I used to give this test and I had to sit and memorize the correct numbers ahead of time.

[Ms. Toad]

38. Not really.

My spouse, with mild cognitive impatient, and on two Alzheimer's medications, passes it regularly with a perfect score.

The test only captures those already grossly impaired.

[nocoincidences]

47. That's the point.

It is a screening, not a full neuropsychological battery which is very comprehensive and takes hours.

It is a complex task if you are starting to have some real difficulty with a few basic skills employed simultaneously.

Your husband is currently lucky to be doing so well!

[SidneyR]

42. I predict we will someday hear

that there should be different versions of the test for different people. Sort of like IQ tests have a cultural bias, tests that are heavy in math numbers are biased against life-long math disabilities. I mean, ask me about history, or have me recite a Robert Frost poem. But numbers--forget it.

[SidneyR]

41. Math is not and never has been a subject I was any good in.

So no, I did not do well with counting backwards.

[Ms. Toad]

43. Then you'll lose 3 points, at most.

Only 2 of you can get from 100 to 93. You would still pass by 1 or 2 points

And, counting backwards by 7 is arithmetic, not math. I suck at arithmetic, but I'm pretty good at math. And I can still count backwards by 7 for 5 numbers.

[SidneyR]

45. OK, technically correct.

But where I come from, math and arithmetic are pretty much synonymous, with arithmetic being the childish word for math.

[phylny]

46. She told me I could use my fingers

and I did!

Could only remember one out of the five words: Velvet!

[LymphocyteLover]

16. No shit! The dude's brain is fried.

[cstanleytech]

21. "Who won the 2020 Presidential Election?" Is a much simple question. If Trump a answers it wrong then he has dementia.

[Swede]

24. HE aced the test.

Link to tweet

?s=20

[NJCher]

48. Damn that's funny

I wish she were doing this now except we don't need any more attention going to trump.

[Kennah]

28. Trump took a dementia test, and it was positive

[usonian]

37. Ask him who the President of the United States is.

[TheBlackAdder]

39. The fact that he keeps mentioning them as a major talking point shows how much he is truly bothered by them.

[Roy Rolling]

40. This 👆

👏👏👏👏