Israeli Army Occupies Gaza Homes - Then Burns Them Down

[Nanjeanne]

Information obtained by Haaretz indicates IDF commanders have ordered soldiers to set fire to abandoned Gaza homes without legal approval. Several hundred have already been irreparably damaged.

Israeli soldiers have begun in recent weeks to set fire to homes in the Gaza Strip, following direct orders from their commanders, without the necessary legal permission to do so, according to information obtained by Haaretz.

Soldiers have destroyed several hundred buildings using this method over the past month. After the structure is set on fire along with everything inside it, it is allowed to burn out until it is rendered useless.

The IDF said in response to the report that the destruction of buildings is done only with approved means, and that any action carried out in different ways will be looked into.

SNIP

In another incident, soldiers who were about to leave a building left a note to troops who were coming to replace them. "We are not burning the house so you can enjoy it, and when you leave – you'll know what to do," read the note, which appeared in a photograph one of the soldiers posted online.

SNIP

The Gaza war has already caused immense destruction to civilian buildings – even compared to other recent bloody conflicts around the globe.

According to an analysis of satellite images published by the BBC, between 144,000 and 170,000 buildings have been damaged in the Gaza Strip since the beginning of the war. A Washington Post investigation published last month and quoted in Haaretz found that entire swaths of the Strip have been obliterated – in Beit Hanoun, in Jabalya and in Gaza City's Al-Karama neighborhood.

The report also noted that as of late December, 350 schools and some 170 mosques and churches have been damaged or destroyed.

SNIP

In response to the report, the Israeli Army spokesperson said: "Detonating and destroying buildings is done with approved, appropriate means. Actions that were carried out in different ways during the war will be looked into."

Gee, I wonder what the results of looking into this will be.

Every day I think I can’t feel more at sea. This isn’t about the hostages. None of what Israel is doing is going to secure peace or bring them home. I have no tears left.

Haaretz link - https://archive.is/vxuKR]

[maxsolomon]

1. My understanding is that there are motives for this

1. clear a zone around the border to prevent structures being used as cover for another incursion.
2. clear areas the IDF has used to stage forces so they have protection from snipers and attacks.
3. destroy homes that have tunnel exits within - I've seen numbers like 5700 tunnel exits.

In theory it's not just motivated by cruelty, although it is cruel.

[nocoincidences]

2. Or maybe just imitating the

terrorists who killed the residents of the kibbutzim, ate the food they had prepared, and then burned their homes, on October 7.

[claudette]

5. So then

wouldn’t that make them just as bad as the terrorists?

[nocoincidences]

7. no.

They have the capacity to be a lot more creative.

[claudette]

12. Maybe

it would make them worse since they suffered so much in the past when they were being persecuted

[nocoincidences]

16. Maybe that is why

Gaza isn't glass, yet.

But FAFO can last a long time. The members of Black September learned that.

[Nanjeanne]

20. I see. So you are saying Israel is as much

a terrorist organization as Hamas.

Interesting.

[OilemFirchen]

23. Mask off.

Now Israel = IDF. Right?

[Oneironaut]

59. Wouldn't that make them terrorists too, then?

[nocoincidences]

60. No.

They aren't really imitating Hamas. It just looks like that to Hamas apologists.

[Nanjeanne]

62. I've never seen a Hamas apologist on DU.

[nocoincidences]

65. Oh puhlease.

[JoseBalow]

78. This made me laugh out loud!

[MarineCombatEngineer]

85. Me too.

I spit my tea out laughing so hard, there's at least one apologist in this thread alone.

[Arazi]

3. This is a war. This is what happens in wars.

Is this your first war that you’ve paid attention to?

Israel is damned if they do and damned if they don’t with common combat tactics. Everyone wanted them to go house to house fighting instead of bombing. Now they’re doing that and getting blowback.

Nothing about that is unusual. These are combat tactics. This is exactly the war that Hamas wanted and is getting. Blame Hamas

[RAB910]

6. This is a war CRIME

[The Magistrate]

11. And Once Again....

"Area radical passionate advocate for what he imagines international law says."

[RAB910]

22. Chapter 8 of the UN war crime statutes

2.A.4 (definition of war crimes)


Extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly;

[EX500rider]

26. And how do we know yet if it was a military necessity or not?

[RAB910]

30. I read the article, that clearly stated the destruction did not get legal approval

[NickB79]

42. You missed this part?

"Every day, a different platoon goes out to raid homes in the area," wrote one soldier. "The houses are destroyed, occupied. Now what is left is to thoroughly search them. Inside the couches. Behind the closets. Weapons, intel, [tunnel] shafts and rocket launchers. We found all of these. In the end, the house is burned, with everything in it."

Houses found with tunnel shafts and weapons caches sound like legitimate military targets to destroy.

[Arazi]

56. They're Jews. They're breathing. War crime!

I’m pretty tired of the outrage machine directed only at Israel for perfectly defensible actions.

Won’t stop the pro-Pal gang hyperventilating on every possible decision Israel is making fighting terrorists in a warzone

[AloeVera]

80. You missed the part where he says first they destroy the houses. THEN they SEARCH and BURN.

Right?

[NickB79]

81. You think they're searching destroyed houses? Sifting through rubble?

The article literally says they occupy houses, and then destroy them. It's in the OP's title.

It even included a letter as proof, where one platoon leaves an intact house to another platoon as they move on.

[AloeVera]

84. You've stumbled onto something.

Of course they don't. Searching is not the point. The destruction is.

The IDF spokesperson essentially admitted this is not an "officially approved" method of destruction. I venture to say that is because it would not look good with the ICJ. However it looks like commanders in the field, along with the soldiers, are carrying out this unauthorized practice - some of the reasons for it are mentioned in the article, such as revenge for October 7th or soldiers' deaths.

Bet your bottom dollar this is a war crime.

From the article:

Just like the genocide charge brought against Israel at the ICJ, burning houses can, too, be linked to Israeli politicians' statements. Ahead of the ICJ proceeding earlier this month, Likud MK Nissim Vaturi repeated his call to "burn Gaza." Vaturi, one of the deputy Knesset speakers, said in a radio interview that "it's better to burn, to topple buildings, than soldiers getting hurt." He added that he "does not think there are innocent people there right now."

[lapucelle]

66. There are still two conditions that must be met.

That the destruction of property was not justified by military necessity

AND

That the destruction was carried out wantonly

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

[EX500rider]

72. That does not mean it was not considered a a military necessity by commanders on the scene

That just means they didn't ask any lawyers

[The Magistrate]

27. You Do Read the Things You Post?

"...not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly..."

You simply assume no military necessity, and that the act is wanton and unlawful. You have no basis on which to judge whether or not that is the case. You have an inclination towards one side, and a desire to bespatter the other. That suffices for you to shriek the charge, and get huffy when doing so does not meet applause. It does not establish a crime is committed.

[RAB910]

29. Did you read the article posted?

If you had, you would know there was no "assuming" involved, the article said they were destroying homes without even permission.

[The Magistrate]

35. Perrmission From Whom, At What Level Of Command Or Court?

There's not enough to cry up WAR CRIME!!! comparing what information is supplied to the statute you cited. I do not state that it is not, merely that you do not, and in your position as news consumer and social media commentator cannot possibly, know that it is. WAR CRIME!!! is simply a worship word, a word of power, you imagine will cow disagreement with your view Israel is irredeemably wrong in its military operations against Hamas. It doesn't.


"People who view the world in black and white are helpless confronted by need to choose between jet and onyx greys."

[RAB910]

37. Why are you ignoring the clear letter of the law?

This was unsanctioned, hence wanton and unwarranted destruction of property.

We can't just ignore both the intent and the letter of the law because it doesn't suit us.


For those that are interested here are the laws that make what Israel is doing a war crime

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

[The Magistrate]

44. I Don't Ignore It

The article is unclear on many points, chiefly on just what authority it is which was not obtained or was disregarded. It certainly does not demonstrate wanton and unlawful acts are being done without regard for military necessity.

Seriously, though, if you want to cry up WAR CRIME!!! surely you can cull from the day's news something of more weight than petty vandalism.


"Never commit a felony where a misdemeanor will do."

[RAB910]

48. I don't see this war crime (destroying half the structures in Gaza) as a "misdemeanor"

An analysis reviewed by the BBCfound that at least half of all buildings in Gaza—between 144,000-175,000 structures—have been destroyed or damaged by Israeli forces since October 7.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-home-destruction

[The Magistrate]

55. What Does 'Damaged' Mean?

It's an elastic term. Destroyed has a clear meaning. One wonders why the two are clumped together. Combat in urban centers sooner or later levels just about everything. I'm really not impressed, and I am not that hard a sell.

The meat of the article is essentially petty vandalism, certainly in the context of major military operations. It leads with, and chiefly focuses on, claims soldiers are burning residences without proper authorization, though making clear soldiers were often acting under their commander's orders, and noting the army's comments on policy and practice regarding demolitions.

I really can't get too excited about it....


"I'm going home. Someone get me some frogs and some bourbon."

[canuckledragger]

74. And yet you ARE ignoring international law, and gaslighting folks again.

[lapucelle]

64. You are misreading the statute..

There are two necessary conditions that must be met in order to invoke the statute. And one of those conditions itself has two necessary conditions.

1. The destruction of property not justified by military necessity

AND

2. (A.) carried out unlawfully

AND

(B.) carried out wantonly

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

[canuckledragger]

73. " You have an inclination towards one side, and a desire to bespatter the other."

Describes a certain projecting poster perfectly.

[betsuni]

67. So many new definitions it's hard to keep up: war crimes, genocide, carpet bombing,

colonialism, freedom fighters, from the river to the sea, etc.

And in the Olden Days terrorists and pirates were considered bad.

[Arazi]

33. Lol, seriously?!

Last week the outrage du jour was Israel illegally bombing hospitals, homes, apartment complexes.

Now it’s outrage because Israelis are going home by home and destroying potential Hamas hideouts after they’ve been cleared.

Again, Israel is beyond caring about accusations of “war crimes” when they’re doing what every army has done since war was a thing.

They simply don’t give a shit anymore. Jews are the world’s punching bag and it doesn’t matter what they do - they’re going to get slammed, accused, massacred in pogroms etc etc.

They are fighting fucking terrorists in a war. On the battlefield Hamas selected. Terrorists who have vowed to destroy them. I promise you the status of Gaza's homes and the finer points of “legality” just simply don’t work here. They’re fighting a war where Hamas wants it - in neighborhoods and civilian areas. I’ll bet you 80 brazillion bucks nobody ever brings up destroyed home as a “war crime” when this war ends. This is just another “outrage” to turn on Jews instead of focusing your ire on Hamas who choose to fight there

[RAB910]

36. So you are saying it's okay that Israel is commits war crimes?

That seems to be the point you are making

[Arazi]

45. Anything they do is labeled a "war crime"

It’s become a trope and Israel isn’t playing. They. Don’t. Care. Anymore. Decades of just existing being called a “war crime” has numbed them to your cries.

The destruction of potential Hamas hideouts, in a battlezone, will occur. That’s just a fact. They’re utterly unfazed by parsing whether that home is a legit target but that other home is a “war crime”. They’re going to take out any potential Hamas targets.

That’s it.

And I guarantee you there isn’t a single soldier on the planet who isn’t nodding their head right now at SOP.

Go find something more useful to get wound up about, like Hamas hoarding supplies from their children or refusing them shelter in their tunnels or setting up rocket launchers on top of apartment complexes.

[RAB910]

47. War crimes are clearly defined and what they did meets the defintion

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

[nocoincidences]

50. Remind me....

How many wars stopped so one side could be accused of war crimes.

Israel know far too well what stopping to let the enemy gather more strength means.

That won't happen, ever again.

[RAB910]

51. Despite claims to the contrary, might does not

Make right

[nocoincidences]

54. It beats whatever is in second place.

Maybe "I just don't have any more tears" "No justification"

Those Jews are just big bullies!!!!

Fuckin' deal with it. Jews are not the weak enemies this time around.

[Arazi]

53. Uh huh. They've found weapons and tunnel entrances in homes

Hamas is using civilian homes as cover.

The IDF has more than enough evidence to justify taking these homes down but again, I’ll reiterate Israel has been called out for committing “war crimes” since Day 1 of their existence. They don’t care anymore what anyone else believes. They’re going to fight this war their way and destroy Hamas. They’ll be accused of war crimes even when they follow SOP.

Have at it. Join the queue

[canuckledragger]

75. They've claimed to have found weapons and tunnels.

As a cover for their war crimes.

[AloeVera]

76. Well put.

In a nutshell.

[Mosby]

79. They have discovered 1200 MILES of underground tunnels

https://www.reuters.com/graphics/ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS/GAZA-TUNNELS/gkvldmzorvb/

[AloeVera]

89. Uh huh.

"More than enough evidence" stated as a fact is a bit curious since even the commander quoted stated that he didn't know exactly why a particular house was set on fire. I expect the "evidence" will be manufactured forthcoming as needed.

Hope they are carefully documenting all that evidence for the international courts.

The "they don't care anymore" line may not work too well there.

It's going to be hard to boast they are "fighting for civilization" if they don't care for the laws underpinning it.

[lapucelle]

63. No it doesn't.

For the purpose of this Statute, ‘war crimes’ means

Extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly;

--------------------------------------------------------

There are two necessary conditions that must be met in order to invoke the statute. And one of those conditions itself has two necessary conditions.

1. The destruction of property not justified by military necessity

AND

2. (A.) carried out unlawfully

AND

(B.) carried out wantonly

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml

[moniss]

87. The world is getting tired of

this whole decades long horror between all of these sides. The imposition of a solution, probably not to the total satisfaction of either side, is called for and is long overdue. It has only been the US veto which has prevented the UN sending an international peacekeeping force over the many decades. But we did so in the Sinai and it has more or less held.

It is time for the borders in the region to be redrawn to have two viable states and an international peacekeeping force to enforce them. The borders should not be the bizarre mishmash and intertwining through each other's territories as was proposed at the end of the Mandate. That simply invites constant problems. There should be one borderline and Jerusalem should be an "international" city as was stated by the UN before the end of the Mandate. Sort of like Vatican City is to Italy. The peacekeeping force will be there as well.

I don't care if Israel or the Palestinians don't like giving up this piece of land or that. Enough with all of it. Decades and decades of violence and deception back and forth, many thousands dead, many thousands of orphans, many thousands horribly wounded, many thousands terrorized by rocket attacks/bus bombings/knife attacks has all gone on and there is no end in sight if this keeps going including the activity in the West Bank.

So the sides have demonstrated they cannot, will not and do not have the ability or true desire to respect each other and live in peace. They have been given long enough on their own to negotiate and resolve differences. The world should not be dragged for trillions of dollars and never ending horror for these parties. Much as we did in the Sinai it is time to put an international force between these parties who have, by their own horrible actions towards each other, forfeited any right to negotiation or any right to refuse imposition of a solution. As I've said before I don't care who doesn't like it or why. Each can go cry in their respective corners but the rest of the world is faced with a decision. The time for negotiations has ended because both sides have demonstrated bad faith over decades of "negotiations" and "peace process talks" that lead nowhere but to more violence and violent response. Neither "government"/side is willing to see that with each rocket, bomb, bullet or knife used against each other they plant the seeds for the next use. It is ludicrous for either side to act surprised when the crop they planted does indeed grow to harvest. After many, many decades the parties involved leave the world with the choice of continuing to see this go on for as long as the eye can see or put an end to the mistake of 1948 which was to allow only part of a partition plan, flawed as it was, to go into effect while ignoring the warnings from so many that doing so meant never ending conflict. Finish the job and impose it.

[AloeVera]

88. I'm of the same view.

I appreciate your thoughtful, excellent post. I have not seen much of this solution discussed here. This is what I've thought for a while now. Of course there are many obstacles as you have probably thought of. It all comes down to whether there is sufficient will to find a way. I am hopeful that now there will be some movement.

[madaboutharry]

69. "They are fighting fucking terrorists in a war. On the battlefield Hamas selected"

Thank you for saying this.

The underlying animosity the world has for Israel makes sure that no matter what Israel does, it will always be wrong.
Israel needs to do what it needs to do to protect its borders and prevent the next obscene massacre.
This is the war Hamas wanted and it’s the war they got. It is on them.

[claudette]

4. 🥲

Despicable. I have NO sympathy left for Israel any more.

[Basic LA]

8. Thanks for your steadfast humanity

Without you & a handful of brave others here, there would be no pushback to the ongoing atrocities.

[claudette]

13. What I don't understand

is how more of the others don’t see it.

[Basic LA]

14. It's baffling.

People we knew as liberals have turned into General Curtis LeMay. It's a sudden political realignment.

[The Magistrate]

17. Not At All, Sir

The problem, if there is one, is that the conflict between Israel and Arab Palestine does not divide on, or anywhere near, clean left/right lines. Eschewing violence is not an essential part of left political orientation. Nor, for that matter, is naivete.

[Basic LA]

28. Respectfully, sophistry won't muffle

The screams of innocent children being buried alive or having limbs sawed off with no anesthesia. This has gone too far for some of us. That shouldn't be hard to understand. You of all people, who has brought so much to the table here on other topics.

[The Magistrate]

31. When Hamas Sent Its Killers Out On A Sadistic Spree Of Rape And Murder, Everyone Knew What Would Follow

I regret this, but recognize it as an inevitability from the moment of decision to loose the attack on the seventh. Hamas can stop it in an hour's time by freeing captives and downing arms in surrender. But they won't, and while I see protestations here that 'nobody supports Hamas', I do not see people stridently demanding Hamas take any steps whatever to end the killing, certainly not from people demanding Israel cease operations. So I do not take for granted the sincerity of demands Israel mend its behavior.

[sarisataka]

9. Does this mean Israeli rape victims

have fallen off your sympathy chart? Have the actions of their government negated the crimes against them?

[nocoincidences]

19. Israeli rape victims?

What rape victims? It was just propaganda.

That dead girl paraded around in the back of a truck nude?

The girl with the bloody crotch Hamas had to show us?

Just propaganda, it was just our imagination we didn't see that with our own eyes.

[OilemFirchen]

24. Mask off II.

Israel = IDF? No sympathy for Israeli citizens?

We see you. Yes we do.

[claudette]

34. You know

I meant the Israelis who ordered this and those who approve of it. I’m sure we all hoped that the world did not blame ordinary innocent American citizens for our government’s dropping two atom bombs on Japan.

[TheKentuckian]

25. I'm fresh out of diamond Tiffany cufflinks as well.

My supply of private islands has also dried up.

[Calculating]

40. Funny, that's how I feel towards Hamas and their supporters

...

[MarineCombatEngineer]

71. From what I've seen,

you never had any sympathy for Israel, so, no change there.

[sarisataka]

10. If this is being done outside of military neccessity

I condemn the destruction.

[malaise]

15. Plain evil

That is all

[Igel]

32. Good and evil are constrained to use the same reality,

meaning often the same methods. (Yes, it's basically a Star Trek: TOS insight, but not original with that show. Omitted was any discussion of goal(s). But those vary. If divine justice calls for genocide, then your goal is worthy, I guess, in your own view, and self-defence BAMN is vile.)

Preferably, good doesn't go the the same possible extremes for the same meagre feel-good returns. But good could go way past what evil has done. I think goals matter and use my internal sense of what goals I think worthy as my weak and halting compass..

So far those claiming the IDF is the same as Hamas have either compared two different things or just made the claim with no evidence at all.

[Tarc]

18. A military necessity, if the homes are frequently used to shelter Hamas terrorists

War is hell.

[claudette]

21. Not moral when

legal permission hasn’t been granted as stated in the article

[Tarc]

91. Oh well

War isn't pretty.

[Cha]

38. Fucking GANG RAPISTS Butchers of HAMAS is PURE EVIL.

[Calculating]

41. Still waiting on Hamas to surrender

..

[NickB79]

43. From the article

"Every day, a different platoon goes out to raid homes in the area," wrote one soldier. "The houses are destroyed, occupied. Now what is left is to thoroughly search them. Inside the couches. Behind the closets. Weapons, intel, [tunnel] shafts and rocket launchers. We found all of these. In the end, the house is burned, with everything in it."

What bullshit. Who among us DOESN'T have at least one rocket launcher hidden in the underground tunnel shafts inside our houses?

[Arazi]

49. Hamas brought the war to these homes

And the IDF ain’t playing.

It’s a fucking war. Smdh…

[AloeVera]

46. This sickening feeling never leaves me nowadays.

Why is it so hard to see and feel there is something very wrong, very evil here. The lies and deception are astonishing, the cruelty unbearable. For some of us, it's a soul-wrenching stare into the abyss, for others it's "just war". What's the meaning of humanity, or justice, if we can turn away from this much suffering or rationalize it or try to find reasons for prolonging it? There is no cause worth this.

I share your feelings. Grateful for your posts.

[nocoincidences]

52. Because Israel is pure evil

and you have no more tears for the poor Palestinians....right!!????

SSDD

[Butterflylady]

57. No one, no one, no one here, has ever said that.

No one has ever,ever said that Israel is pure evil.

Please stop putting words in our mouths.

The only thing we have ever said is we want the killing to stop.

Killing innocent children is pure evil no matter who does it.

[NickB79]

58. A long-time poster just last week called Hamas "freedom fighters"

And equated them with Nelson Mandela.

So there's that.

And if you want the killing to stop, you NEED to remove Hamas from power. They've stated multiple times that they'll kill again if given the chance.

[AloeVera]

77. Thank you.

I agree.

I ignore those types of posts now but I'm glad to see your comments.

[Nanjeanne]

61. I thought I couldn't get any sadder. Then I read some posts and realize I can.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

86. And I thought I couldn't get any sadder reading some of the posts here also,

anyone who's never been in combat, nor understands the goals of defeating an enemy bent on destruction, has zero clue of what actual war is about, its dirty, its terrifying, but the bottom line is you do what you have to do to survive, as a person, as a people and as a nation, of which Hamas has openly stated that their goal is the destruction of Israel and the elimination of all Jews in the ME and the world.

[David__77]

68. I'm glad there's some exposure of these practices.

The more documentation the better.

[radius777]

70. Despicable. West should not be a party to this.

Innocent citizens and their homes should not be targeted for any reason. It does not matter 'who started it' in any conflict, civilians are off limits and should always be protected.

Netanyahu is using Putin style tactics ie targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure - to create misery amongst the population. This is not self defense, this is revenge and a desire to force these people off of their land so that Netanyahu can finally take Gaza for himself.

Hamas attacked and it is justifiable for IDF to target their networks - but clearly what is happening is far more than that. Innocent Palestinian civilians carrying white flags (who were told to do so) were killed in cold blood. Saw a mother walking with her daughter - the mother was cut down by a bullet. Saw a man walking with his son - son was killed while the man cried still clutching the white flag. This is disgusting and goes against everything the west is supposed to stand for.

[GuppyGal]

83. Hamas acting within a vacuum among all the 'innocents' Pa-leeze nt

[AloeVera]

90. Well, Gaza holds about a million children 14 and UNDER.

Do you think they are guilty too?