I keep hearing that states can't secede. But let's say one does.

[Stinky The Clown]

Then what?

War? Begging them to come back? Stern letters? What?

Secession is about the dumbest thing a state can do. But assuming they decide to be stupid, what can be done about it?

[BootinUp]

1. lol. I said T-Rump would never win.

Yep, its risky to use the word never.

[Arthur_Frain]

2. Really?

I thought we covered this.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. Oh, did I miss the class?

[Arthur_Frain]

11. One didn't have to be present from 1861 to 1865 to learn it.

But Texas will learn it again, if they have to.

[Scrivener7]

38. It would be nothing like the Civil War. There would be less than zero need for a military response.

[leftieNanner]

3. Ultimately

All federal property and $$$ is gone. I think Abbott likes to talk about it, but don't think he's so stupid to actually follow through.

[LeftInTX]

8. Abbott never talks about it....

[Scrivener7]

39. WE should be showing what an empty threat it is. Whenever the topic is raised by a republiQan, our

response should be, "By all means, give it a go. We'll even promise not to mount any kind of military response. But you have to promise to let us know how it goes. Because we'll have the popcorn ready."

[lovebugg]

4. Never happen

It's just dumb talk from stupid on the right

[Emile]

23. Exactly

[Silent Type]

5. What do parents do when the 4 year old says they are running away?

[d_r]

53. I am totally down for packing Texas's bags

El peso will be a part of New Mexico the next day. The military base closures and end to social security and Medicaid checks will have them crying in one month.

[DemocraticPatriot]

6. "Let the erring sisters go in peace--- and cut them off

as you would a diseased branch from an otherwise healthy tree..."

Horace Greeley may have said something like that, in early 1861...somebody did, anyway..


On the other hand, the power of the United States military is much greater than that of all the neo-Confederate states put together, today...
if they think they could beat it, they are living in fantasyland...

The question would be, are we better off with them, or without them ?

I am ambivalent about forcing such states to remain in the Union "at the point of the bayonet"....
if they really want to go off on their own...

(and I don't think they are worth retaining, at the price of blood of our troops)

Then again, I would not be opposed to seal-teams going in there and taking out a few of the most smelly secessionist politicians,
if they actually attempted to secede.


There was a secessionist Facebook group who locked their page yesterday--- after the question of whether they would still receive their Social Security checks arose, LOL--- then they suddenly made their group "private" LMAO

[William Gustafson]

7. Just to play along with the question...

who would run the new country of Texanstan?
what kind of government would they have?
Could we build a wall around them and have them pay for it?

Just a few questions to get the mind going....

have a nice day!

[Omnipresent]

34. Yes, one of the demands of Texas succession would be that they build and pay for the wall...

Around the Texas Border!

[lastlib]

36. Would the Dallas Cowboys be eligible for the Super Bowl?

(like they'd ever get there............ )

Would Univ. of Texas have to pull out of the NCAA?

HMMmmmmmm..............

[Captain Zero]

40. Would TX electoral votes be seceded from the election?

Somebody is toast if that happens. Also lowers the GQP count in the house and senate.
Democratic Majorities.

[TwilightZone]

9. No point in wasting time on a hypothetical that simply isn't possible.

Hell, I live in Texas and DU talks about secession way more than anyone around here. Here, it's the same few loons who wander around the capitol with handwritten signs and get sporadic media attention. On DU, it sometimes seems like people are obsessed with it, even though it's simply not possible.

Settled law, 1869.

[Rstrstx]

12. It's an astroturf campaign by the usual Russian suspects

They know how to amplify it in the echo chambers. Only the tin-foil hatters halfway believe this crap

[MistakenLamb]

30. same ones doing the campaigns to break up California and make the PNW secede

Russian of origin

[moonshinegnomie]

13. heres what would happen

using texas as an example.
all us military bases closed and troops withdrawn. that will destroy a big chunk of the economy. ft hood (i know its been renamed but dont remember the new name) is one of the largest bases in the country.
all airports could be shuttered as air traffic controlers are employed by the US
texas would have to enact a large income tax. no more federal dollars coming int the state.
texas complains about the border now,imagine all border patrol officers leaving
the US could cripple the texas economy with a tariff on oil/gas imports from teh new country
all banks would lose fdic insurance. bank run anyone?????
the us could ban texas sports teams from playing in the US. imaging texas's reaction to no more cowboy,texas,aggie,or longhorn football games.

and thats just a start

[C_U_L8R]

15. And the GOP would lose Congress.

For a long time. Maybe forever. Too bad. So sad.

[Buckeyeblue]

19. All of these things...and probably a civil war within Texas

It wouldn't take long for poor people--and there will be a lot more of them as the Texas economy tanks--to revolt. There are a lot of guns in Texas. I think you'd see a lot of gang-like organizations trying to exert their will.

I suspect OK, AR, LA and NM would get a lot of refugees from Texas seeking a better life.

[Bucky]

26. I wouldn't go to Arkansas

[moonshinegnomie]

45. im considering colorado

i moved to austin to escape winter 14 years ago but texas was nowhere near the hellhole it is now. theres 3 things stopping me
1) housing costs are higher anywher id like to live in colorado even compared to austin
2) ive built up a community of friends here and wouldnt want to start over at my age
3) ive moved long distances several times in my life. its an enormous PITA

[Buckeyeblue]

58. New Mexico seems to have affordable housing and a nice climate

[moonshinegnomie]

59. thats also a possibility

but im picky. i was in alburquerque 20 years ago and wasnt very impressed. the santa fe area might be a possibility. what id really love is boulder colorado but thats pricey even for colorado.
I need a big city,a decent climate reasonable taxes and a good renaissance festival i can go to many times a year

.

[Vogon_Glory]

31. Also, a lot of the idiots pushin secession are whites

who haven’t thought things out. Thanks to higher birth-rates, the Hispanic population of Texas is higher (Yes, I said HIGHER!) than the number of Euro-Americans.

Admittedly many Texas Hispanics are folks whose families have been here for several generations (A claim many Texas Anglos are unable to make) and are primarily English-speakers, but the ethnicity of the reborn Republic of Texas would shift away from the majority-white fantasy many (racist) Texas secessionists.

And considering the abysmal quality of governance that Texas Republicans have displayed over the last quarter-century, it wouldn’t take long for the reborn Republic of Texas to become another basket case like Venezuela or Argentina.

[machoneman]

32. No SS payments to TX folks. No longer citizens, passports invalidated and no chance to travel anywhere. Stock....

..market trades not possible thru the NYSE. Bonds the State of TX holds for loans invalidated and lenders demand immediate repayment. Geez, I've got a dozen other things TX would lose but it's pointless to keep this going. Secession ain't ever gonna happen!

[Zeitghost]

47. Outside of SS payments

I don't think much of that matters. There is no requirement to be an American in order to trade on the NYSE. Financial instruments like loans and bonds would still be valid. The new Nation of Texas could issue passports.

But as you say, it ain't going to happen, not because of the things you state, but because Texans have no real interest in independence.

[Zeitghost]

46. IIRC

Texas is a net contributor to the federal treasury. So in theory they would be able to fund most services the Feds currently provide at a level proportional to their population. Defense spending would be tricky because total military spending is a lot more important when projecting military power than per person spending, but then a theoretical independent Texas probably wouldn't need to fund a global military like the US does.

Of course, none of this matters as Texas isn't going anywhere and outside a few kooks, Texans have no interest in seceding. But it does make for fun internet discussions.

[LiberalFighter]

60. Would not be eligible for Social Security or Medicare.

No federal tax refunds.
Fewer obygns?
They will probably have to install toll roads.

[moonshinegnomie]

61. they already have toll roads here

rather than building new freeways they prefer adding toll lanes to existing highways.
since its not a "tax" rethugs are fine with it.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

14. Well, if it's Texas...

Then buh-bye!

[LudwigPastorius]

16. Send in the FBI accompanied by troops to...

arrest those who declared the state independent, whether that be the legislature or Governor.

Declare martial law and promote those politicians who were against secession to leadership positions until elections could be called to fill the vacancies.

[Elessar Zappa]

17. They'd lose all federal funding and benefits.

No federal dollars for education, roads, healthcare, no social security or Medicare, military bases would be removed, etc. But the whole discussion is academic because it isn’t going to happen.

[dsc]

21. I don't see why Social Security would stop for current beneficiaries

I assume if I move to France upon retirement my SS would follow me as it is my benefit.

[Bucky]

25. I'm pretty sure if you renounce your citizenship you lose SSI

It might work like a personal retirement fund, but it's really a public benefit for American citizens and taxpayers

[unblock]

28. There are some pitfalls, but you can continue to collect benefits if you properly earned them

Which country you move to matters, how you relinquish citizenship matters, whether you return to America enough (I believe it's 1 month out of every 6), probably a few other factors. But if you follow procedures you can still collect as a non-citizen.

[CincyDem]

41. Texas gets $1.60 in return for every $1.00 it sends to Washington. That alone makes this a RW fantasy. n/t

[Skittles]

18. it's just performance for the cult

they know this kind of nonsense works on their brain-dead voters

[hlthe2b]

20. Their economy folds day one, no functioning airports, shipping ends from nearly every US company

due to the uncertainty of travel into the newly developed border, their residents lose all government aid including SS and Medicare, and no security of their current banking (no FDIC)... So, whether or not it incites a military response, it would be like a mini Brexit only with the impacts IMMEDIATE and magnified by infinity. States like Texas and Florida would think they could survive that, given their substantial coastlines allowing trade outside the US, but that would make (at least Florida) at risk from outside players in a time of uncertainty, and without the US military, who would protect them from a modern-day Cuba Missile Crisis or targeted attacks from unstable forces in those countries that we've been facing the flood of refugees emerging from (like Venezuela)?

[Emile]

22. Exactly +1

Hell just closing down the military bases in Texas would destroy the states economy overnight.

[JPK]

52. Not to mention

All the military industrial complex there like Lockheed and Boeing having to move their facilities. They make the F-35 there. Not to mention NASA moving out as well.

[Wicked Blue]

35. The U.S. could blockade their coastlines

Also, no more farm subsidies.

[Attilatheblond]

43. Latin American drug cartels have boats, even some big ones, possibly some submarines

Cartels also have a lot of guns/ammo, much of which is smuggled into Mexico by.... US citizens.

So I would have second thoughts about a US blockade and might consider letting the cartels take over ports in TX. Abbott and other Texas GOP pols like to talk about an invasion, OK, let their fears materialize.

[Bucky]

24. Pick up an American history book and read chapter 17

[bucolic_frolic]

27. It would become mass shakeout of property rights and debts, just like a divorce

TX would be obligated for its share of the federal debt. All federal monies to TX would cease. Federal properties in the state sold to pay federal debt. Federal payments to citizens treated as if they lived in a foreign country, which they would at that point. Would TX citizens put up with it? No, once the fallout started. So it's all bluster.

[303squadron]

29. The loss of two Republican Senators and 24 Representatives....I can live with that!

[machoneman]

33. Oh goodie! We lose all those onerous, self-indulgent TX Senators and Reps! Hooray!

[Scrivener7]

37. Texas? The smart thing would be to say, "Buh bye" and wait for THEM to beg to come back.

Because that would be inevitable. And it would happen quick.

[Johonny]

42. This feels like settled law

[Voltaire2]

44. Dissolution is the least worst path forward.

The federal government is massively dysfunctional, and because of immutable structural problems in the constitution, specifically the Senate and the electoral college, and the fact that the House is no longer particularly representative (the constitution states 'The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand', but we are currently at 780,000 per rep,) and the cultural chasm between the illiberal authoritarian right and, well, sane and normal people, there is no hope for progress, and all we are doing is trying to prevent overt fascism.

The fuckwit states should secede and we should wish them well on their journey.

[Polybius]

48. It's only illegal until they do it, then it becomes legal

So long as we don't forcefully get them back.

[Aristus]

49. Let 'em go, and fuck 'em.

The Civil War was different. The seceding states were holding people captive. That wouldn't be the case this time. People in seceding states would be able to leave if they chose.

[Caliman73]

50. For what purpose?

I know this is discussion site, but this topic has likely been done to death.

On DU you will get a few different types of response.

1. Can't happen. No need to discuss.
2. Let them go. Fuck em. Build Wall.
3. Sell Texas back to Mexico.
4. Maybe someone will go into depth about history and legal issues.

If you want to actually get information about secession and the viewpoints and legal treatises on the topic, there are a lot of places where people with more training and information are doing that.

Here are a few:

[link:https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/research/article/strategies-of-secession-and-counter-secession|]

[link:https://www.historians.org/teaching-and-learning/teaching-resources-for-historians/sixteen-months-to-sumter/newspaper-index/cincinnati-daily-commercial/the-right-of-secession|]

[link:https://prospect.org/power/02-23-2023-republicans-secession-confederacy-treason/|]

[link:https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/secession-is-here-already-what-can-we-do-about-it-opinion/|]

[link:https://www.governing.com/now/we-cant-all-get-along-whats-driving-modern-secession-movements|]

[link:https://www.texastribune.org/2021/01/29/texas-secession/|]

Knock yourself out.

[claudette]

51. I'd say

“Goodbye and Good riddance” to Texass.

[angrychair]

54. They cant

They can say they are "seceding" but it's not a thing. There is, very literally, no mechanism for it to happen. Not in the Constitution nor in federal law.

[Progressive dog]

55. They had that problem in 1861.

I expect we'll do what President Lincoln did except more quickly.

[Torchlight]

56. California, too.

Despite tiny degrees of difference in popularity for the dueling sentiments between the states, the one is as likely as the other.

[moonshinegnomie]

57. one more thing to consider

if texas were to secede what would they use for money? they couldnt use the us dollar (in theory they could but do you really think they would use the currency of the country they just left?)

that means they need a new currency. lets call it the dumbfuck dollar dd for short. the country would have to decide whether to use an asset backed currency (gold standard) or fiat currency which is what the dollar is. it for all intents and purposes only has value because people believe in it. as a seperate countru who would have the faith to invest in these new dd's? certainly no outside intelligent investor excpet for a few numb nuts maybe. but other than that nope. and who would invest in this new countries debt. no one with a brain would.


between the economic collapse and the fact that most people here are armed texas would become the new somalia,run by warlords. a true 3rd world hellhole. (and id be out of here in a heartbeat)

[Happy Hoosier]

62. Something like this:

1) Freeze all state assets.
2) inform any companies operating in that state, that all government contracts are frozen for operations in the state. . Lockheed Martin will love that.
3) all Federal payments suspended, including social security.
4) initiate court action.
5) place all US Military and Federal LEOs on alert status.
5) Federalize and mobilize the National Guard.