Are we allowed to express a libertarian view point here

[lovebugg]

I agree that the states or the federal government shouldn't have a say over a woman's body

[usedtobedemgurl]

1. That is a very progressive

Viewpoint.

[TheBlackAdder]

116. Libertarians ARE the most insane self-affecting mofo John Birch variants of Republicans.

.

I've never met a Libertarian who wasn't plugged into as many perks as they could.
They are the biggest moochers of the government, all while claiming otherwise.

Libertarians are self-affecting, meaning that they only do things that directly benefit them.
If they push a plan or law, it's for their benefit. If others benefit from it, it is purely by chance.

They view government programs they can plug into as deserved.

They view government programs they can't tap into jealously, claiming it's somehow a tax they are paying to fund others.

.

[Ocelot II]

2. That's not a libertarian viewpoint; it's an acknowledgment

of a civil right to bodily autonomy. Libertarians are basically just Republicans who want to smoke pot. They don't believe in economic regulation. I knew one who didn't think the FAA should regulate aviation safety since if enough airplanes crashed, airlines and manufacturers would eventually have an economic incentive to voluntarily make flying safer, even if a lot of people got killed in the meantime. Libertarians are idiots - they mostly start as teenaged boys who read Atlas Shrugged and thought they'd discovered a brilliant political philosophy and never outgrew it as adults,

[Aristus]

5. Well said.

My own viewpoint is that the people who insist that government is too intrusive in the lives of citizens, and too regulatory towards corporations, and needs to back off, would be the very people demanding that the government do something about all those planes crashing.

[Igel]

32. Libertarians break the binary.

Those I've known were against a lot of economic regulation, against abortion regulation, against drug regulation, against sexuality regulation, against workplace regulation.

They were against _________ regulation and government except when necessary in their view (and while that varied within a narrow range of function, it did vary).

(D) like the first, not the second or third and want to enforce pro regulation for the fourth and entirely onboard for the fifth.

(R) are against the first, for the second and third and fourth, and against the fifth. Grosso modo.

I've seen the claim that "libertarian" is just a euphemism for (R), but, you know, it's not. Just like I've seen the claim that "libertarian" is just a euphemism for "liberal", (D), or "progressive"--but, you know, it's not.

It's like saying that cats are just autistic dogs.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

41. Politics is at least 2D, not 1D left/right

Socially liberal, fiscally liberal: Democratic
Socially conservative, fiscally conservative: classic Republican
Socially liberal, fiscally conservative: Libertarian
Socially conservative, fiscally liberal: tends authoritarian and fascistic

The thing about quasi-libertarians is that they want to escape liability and responsibility.

They want their cattle to graze the commons and when they rip it up they want the public/government to fix it up at no cost to them.

They want to have their cake and eat it too.

[Kennah]

58. Doesn't this make Libertarians the Welfare Queens that Reagan ranted about?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

60. No. It makes them corporate welfare bloodsuckers, at least the false-front libertarians

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

69. Thank you.

It's long been my observation that Libertarians themselves, not just quasi-libertarians, is that they want to escape liability and responsibility. Take full advantage of everything that taxes pay for, while trying very hard not to pay taxes themselves.

[oldsoftie]

163. I think by those definitions The "libertarian" is a "moderate"

And probably would call themselves "Independents".

[KS Toronado]

44. Koch Brothers are libertarians

We can see how little they care about Liberal viewpoints. Plus they're behind stacking the SCOTUS.
This Forum is a Democratic one not a libertarian one. IMO libertarians usually feel more at home with
repugs than anyone else.

[Prairie_Seagull]

130. David Koch died in 2019.

Now it is just Charles Koch and this single individual, by name, should take the brunt of our Ire.

IMO

[Attilatheblond]

3. Oh, and just when I considered taking a nap

[lovebugg]

10. I just woke up from a nap a little while ago

I like afternoon naps the best

[musette_sf]

4. You'll need to clarify that

since the current libertarian position on legal pregnancy termination relies upon the non-aggression principle, i.e., rights apply at conception. Previous positions included the States’ Rights argument: I believe Ron Paul was a proponent of rights on the state level. So perhaps you could clarify your position.

[lovebugg]

6. I read this on it maybe I'm reading wrong?

“Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration,” Libertarian Party platform states

[W_HAMILTON]

18. This is the Libertarian Party platform:

https://www.lp.org/platform

Where does it state that?

[Igel]

37. Here.

https://www.lp.org/libertarians-abortion-is-a-matter-for-individual-conscience-not-public-decree/

Note that the 2022 platform doesn't use the words, but it's still at right angles to both (R) and (D).

[W_HAMILTON]

42. You are quoting an old, outdated platform.

Last edited Fri Feb 2, 2024, 01:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Yes, that was once their stance.

It is no longer their stance.

I linked their current platform. it specifically removed the abortion-related parts that existed in prior platforms because the party has become more hostile to abortion rights in recent years, partly due to many disaffected Republicans joining their ranks and altering their stances to more closely align with their former party.

[musette_sf]

74. Correct

[Demsrule86]

145. Nowhere...and supporting the Libertarian Party on DU...IE Democratic Underground

is inappropriate. We support the election of Democrats.

[Hekate]

90. You sound very young, or at least not on sure footing with US politics ?

?

[Bev54]

151. The fact that the abortion issue is a medical issue it has no place in the hands

of government at all, full stop.

[lovebugg]

7. The Pauls are Republicans not libertarians

They just like to play with the word and meaning in my opinion

[musette_sf]

16. The RLC (Republican Liberty Caucus)

are the libertarians who align with the Republican Party, which includes Ron Paul who was caucus chair from 1995-2002.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

103. I have met a number of Ron Paul supporters a while back who claimed to be libertarians

[musette_sf]

107. Well, yeah

He ran for POTUS as a libertarian candidate in 1988.

[canetoad]

8. Here's a link

Before you go getting yourself into any strife, it is worth reading the terms and conditions of DU so that you know exactly what is expected of DU members. It really is worthwhile.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[lovebugg]

13. Thank you

I consider my self liberal on just about everything and generally want less government
control over my life.

[dpibel]

22. That's adorable!

[Cha]

34. What part of Government I "Controlling your life"?

[John Shaft]

48. What kind of conspiracy theories do you believe in?

How does the government "control" your life?

Be specific.

[lovebugg]

73. They do not

[Marcus IM]

52. A liberal libertarian.

How utterly quaint.

[Hekate]

92. Beautiful. Add to that a photo of a Boeing Max shedding doors and passengers at high altitude. Whee!

[Torchlight]

71. Those traffic lights do make driving more confusing.

Stop signs are the worst. Too much control.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

228. What kind of government control are you referring to?

Can you be specific?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

9. Most people here support some regulation and restrictions, so.

[The Magistrate]

19. The Thing About Libertarianism

Is that if you do assert government's principal duty is protection of property, and do so in circumstances where most have little and a few have lots, you cannot do otherwise than end in a totalitarian government. You cannot have democracy, if you do, sooner or later the government will be directed to redistribution. If you cannot have democracy, you cannot have civic liberty, and personal liberty alone tends to mere decadence. You start out demanding freedom from government, and wind up dependent on its holding down the populace to a few's benefit.

And I would not dispute that's generally where government winds up, from whatever premises it begins, and by however twisty a route it may take....

[WhiskeyGrinder]

46. I was talking only about abortion, but your point stands.

[The Magistrate]

55. I've A Sentimental Fondness For Anarchism

Mostly from reading on pre-Franco Spain.

If it's not coals to Newcastle, you might find this link interesting:

https://www.niskanencenter.org/

Sort of the black sheep of the CATO Institute....

[WhiskeyGrinder]

76. Sir, you contain multitudes.

[Voltaire2]

127. left libertarianism has a long history

the propertarian branch - the anarcho-capitalists and right libertarians, are almost exclusively a US phenomena, although they have managed to spread out over the last few decades.

[The Magistrate]

233. What Most Intrigued Me About Spain In That Period, Sir

Is how it preserved in vigor into the twentieth century the pre-Bolshevik political taxonomy of Europe. A sort of political Australia, with a full suite of marsupials. Something akin to a natural experiment illuminating what developments beyond the Pyrenees might have been without the Great War.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

66. Government's primary duty is protection of people.

[Bev54]

154. I must ask why? Abortion is a medical issue and nobody's business but a woman and her

doctor. Why should the government be involved at all? Do you want them to decide when men can get a vasectomy? There should not be any government interference as long as the procedures are considered safe. That is their only responsibility.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

157. Gestational limits are a restriction that many people have trouble letting go of.

[Bev54]

193. Well it is time to let go. Maybe because I am Canadian and abortion has no place in our courts

at all and hopefully never will despite the attempts by the conservatives here. Seriously who is to decide restrictions? The government? No again it is up to the doctor and the woman, if it is late term it is usually always because there is a problem not because some woman wants to carry a fetus for months on end and then decide to terminate. There is no room for government in that decision. Dr's here can opt out not to perform abortions if it against their beliefs but the hospitals cannot prevent a doctor from performing abortions in the hospital as they are taxpayer funded. Abortion should never ever be a legal issue and should never ever be debated by others who are not involved, especially those who do not have a uterus, meaning men.

[ShazzieB]

237. I agree whole-heartedly.

I didn't used to have a problem with the idea of gestational limits, but a while back I came to the realization that they are unnecessary. The people who have pushed for them the hardest are the so-called "pro life" crowd, who seem to be convinced that without such limits, people will get abortions willy-nilly, at any stage of gestation, just because they can. Therefore, their argument goes, we MUST have these limits or else havoc will ensue! (These same people are also constantly trying to roll gestational limits on abortion farther and farther back, because their real agenda is trying to make it harder and harder to access abortion care legally.)

The need for gestational limits is simply based on false premises. The truth of the matter is, most abortions happen as early in pregnancy as possible, because someone who gets pregnant and doesn't want to be is anxious to take care of things as soon as she can. A woman doesn't choose to wait until late in a pregnancy to have an abortion because she just woke up one morning and decided she didn't feel like being pregnant anymore.

Most abortions that happen at a later stage of gestation occur because something is desperately wrong with either the woman's health, the development of the fetus, or both. Many severe fetal abnormalities are not diagnosable until the fetus reaches a certain stage of development, and pregnancy complications can crop up at any time. Decisions about how best to treat such problems are medical decisions and should be left up to properly trained health care providers, in consultation with their patients (and anyone else the patient chooses to involve, such as their partner). Everybody else needs to stay out of it!

In short, the idea that gestational limits on abortion need to be enacted into law is based on the belief that there is a need to 1) prevent people from doing certain things that are assumed to be harmful and 2) punish them if they do those things. If you look at abortion as a medical decision, there is no reason not to trust pregnant people and their doctors to make these decisions without direct governmental involvement.

[TxGuitar]

11. Well, scratch a libertarian

find a fascist.
And this is not a libertarian view, as said more eloquently above.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

47. Nope. Libertarians are diametrically opposed to fascists

Socially liberal, fiscally liberal: Democratic
Socially conservative, fiscally conservative: classic Republican
Socially liberal, fiscally conservative: Libertarian
Socially conservative, fiscally liberal: tends authoritarian and fascistic

Libertarians do not like fascism, which is authoritarian control of the economy every bit as much as Maoists and Stalinists want to control everything.

Communism is left-wing authoritarianism.
Fascism is right-wing authoritarianism.

Libertarians hate authoritarianism.

[Voltaire2]

131. well except when they don't.

right-libertarians convince themselves that they have to align with fascism to prevent the horrors of socialism. For example, see the rise of fascism in post WWI Italy, where many within the 'individual anarchists' transitioned to the fascist movement.

[Mosby]

12. The short answer is no.

Read the terms of service.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[lovebugg]

15. Am I reading this wrong?

Democratic Underground is an online community for friendly, politically liberal people

[Ocelot II]

28. Libertarians aren't liberals.

They don't believe in a fair society; they believe in a society in which government doesn't constrain opportunities to get rich at the expense of others.

[lovebugg]

30. okay thanks I was not aware of that

[Hekate]

94. So you have not read Ayn Rand, the patron saint of Libertarianism? Oh my.

[lovebugg]

110. No have not

I will look to find copy at library tomorrow

Will be leaving boston soon
nice people but very crowded
Ate pizza there

[Hekate]

152. I thought they were a bit rude, and the drivers made my hair stand on end. Not like a "village"

Great city otherwise — when I visited it was the first time in my life I realized I was part of a whole ethnic group that looked like me and my family.

No wolves though. By the way, since the pack you fed fish to seemed tame, did you train them to haul your sled?

[Hekate]

185. Yes, wolves do kill people & they hunt in packs.

[hurl]

33. Agreed

Most so-called libertarians are against government regulation of capitalism, which is ironically anti-freedom for individual consumers. What they completely miss is that unfettered capitalism will allow powerful collectives (corporations) to consolidate economic power and use that to lobby for favorable laws to bolster their own interests that completely undermine the freedom of individual consumers. Libertarians favor freedom of corporations over freedom of consumers, so they contradict their own espoused values.

In a libertarian economic system, huge corporations would be free to use their massive financial strength to perpetuate a system that benefits them and limits the freedoms of individual consumers. Libertarianism, in this regard, actually works against individual liberty and for absolute corporate control.

A true, small-l libertarian would enthusiastically support consumer protections, while the fake Libertarian party rails against them.

[obamanut2012]

132. INFO: how are libertarians liberals?

[Voltaire2]

138. Liberalism is a very broad ideological category.

Its modern roots trace back to the enlightenment and the class struggle between the mercantile and proto-industrialists, the emerging bourgeoisie, against the ruling aristocracies.

The core belief is in the equality of individuals, but it is equality basically of property rights. See for example our own Declaration of Independence, which decrees we are all ‘created equal’ (except of course if you are not a white propertied male human) and are free to ‘pursue happiness’, as best we can, given our material circumstances.

The propertarian branch is currently known as neoliberalism- as it explicitly attempts to rewind and undo the reforms of the other modern liberal branch, the social democratic branch, which in this country has to hide its label under terms like ‘progressive’ as anything evoking socialism is taboo.

[obamanut2012]

143. Libertarians are not liberal

And, I was curious about how OP would "answer" this.

[Voltaire2]

189. They most certainly are.

They believe in individual rights and limited government, which is under the umbrella of liberal ideologies. They are not center left social democratic 'progressive'' liberals, not are they center right neoliberals, both of whom support a more expansive role for government, but right-libertarianism is a liberal ideology.

[obamanut2012]

206. lol

[Voltaire2]

246. Maybe do a little research?

Start here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

[madinmaryland]

14. Most libertarians in this country are nothing more than Republicans who smoke pot.

Seeing your comment about reproductive rights for women means are you probably a democrat.

BTW, Welcome to DU?

[lovebugg]

17. I don't know what I am I have never voted

[ProfessorGAC]

23. Why?

Have you just now gotten old enough to vote?
What other good reason is there for never voting?

[lovebugg]

26. The closest village was very far

I am staying in a city now but grew up in my own built cabin

[The Magistrate]

45. Well, Ain't You Cute As A Bug In A Rug....

[lovebugg]

65. I don't know what that is but they sing nice

I was taught the old ways

[Ferrets are Cool]

84. I'm sorry, but that sentence doesn't make sense.

I grew up in my own built cabin? That is not possible.

[The Magistrate]

85. Not So fast There, Sir

Many an early nineteenth century Presidential candidate was reared up in a log cabin he built with his own hands....

[dpibel]

86. Wolves taught him

Pretty sure they're good with the more primitive tools.

[lovebugg]

111. Wolves can be dangerous and people try to kill them here

I have same pack visit cabin for maybe 6 years now
feed one by hand but not others
I just leave fish out


I try to answer all questions but many questions

[Scrivener7]

202. What people? You said there were no people there. Four years without speaking to another person, you said.

By the way, how did the Boston friend with the mortgage problem contact you? Were sled dogs or smoke signals involved?

And if you grew up in the cabin you built, how did you come to have a friend in Boston who could write your early Democratic Underground posts for you?

[RandiFan1290]

213. Back to the village in Connecticut?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1042&pid=1871

Stop being so naive, DU

lol

0/10
not even a good attempt but you fooled many here.

[Scrivener7]

217. I'm pretty sure they didn't fool much of anyone.

[Scrivener7]

214. So your friend is in foreclosure, sends a letter to the village elder who has "snow machine

go on ice."

Who then shoots a gun all day to get you to walk to the river to meet him.

To deliver the letter.

If your language is so rudimentary, how did you know what the letter said?

[Scrivener7]

219. PS: were you mean to the village elder? If he can contact you whenever he wants with his

"snow machine go on ice" and a shotgun, why didn't he check if you were dead or alive for four years straight?

[Scrivener7]

221. So you built her a house, then she didn't check if you were dead or alive for four years straight.

Sorry, son. She don't like you, house or no house.

Glad you at least have your wolf friend.

And, of course, I assume you have friends at your Connecticut house. The one with those high taxes you've been posting about.

[Scrivener7]

235. And lovebugg go back to Alaska village called Connecticut. There he and fish and pluck gold

from stream and put in bags. And Connecticut village elder shun lovebugg and don't talk to lovebugg for four years! Because lovebugg complain about Connecticut taxes on cabin lovebugg built in Connecticut wilderness of Alaska when lovebugg was baby.

It all kinda dopey.

[Torchlight]

222. Serious, sounds

Luck, the best of

[Ferrets are Cool]

184. LOL

[Ferrets are Cool]

119. But, my friend, did they build it and THEN grow up in it?

That, is the question.

[Brother Buzz]

176. Me fail English? That's unpossible

[Hekate]

93. "Village" ? Where in the US was this?

[lovebugg]

108. Up north

Alaska
village holy cross nearest but much far away from me

[John Shaft]

141. Is English your second language?

Is Russian your native tongue?

[RandiFan1290]

218. Connecticut

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1042&pid=1871

[Hekate]

95. I feel a desire for popcorn coming on

[betsuni]

115. I find the tale of "Dances with Wolves and the Gold Rush" to be very entertaining!

Like Jack London.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

200. White Fang!

I’m waiting for Grizzly Adams to show up…

[Ferrets are Cool]

122. From the very beginning.

[The Magistrate]

126. I Do Declare, Ma'am

Boy talks like some 'injun' in a 50s TV horse-opera....

[Hekate]

142. Heap much

[Scrivener7]

148. I'm REALLY hoping there turns out to be a Door Buzzard in this story. Move over on the couch and

pass me some of that popcorn!

[Hekate]

155. Oooh, maybe we'll get lucky!

[obamanut2012]

133. How did you build a cabin as an infant?

I am serious: "I grew up in my own built cabin."

[Hekate]

153. Maybe the bears helped

[Hekate]

180. ****

[obamanut2012]

207. Goldpouchlocks and the Three Kodiaks

[spooky3]

226. :-) nt

[ismnotwasm]

20. I love arguing water rights with Libertarians

[lovebugg]

25. No one should own the water that falls from the sky

Or tell me I can't fish to feed myself

Is that allowed here ?

[ismnotwasm]

35. That is not very Libertarian then lol

[Ocelot II]

54. What happens to the water after it falls from the sky?

It goes into the ground and into bodies of water, where it picks up pollutants. Do you think government should regulate polluting industries so they don't dump poisons into the water? Cities take water from rivers or lakes and purify it, removing sewage so we can drink it without getting cholera. We pay for this - not for the water so much itself, but for the service of purifying it and making it safe. Would you rather just drink the "free" water that falls from the sky into a lake and take your chances with giardia, cholera or heavy metal poisoning?

What about those fish? Do you object to paying the state for a fishing license so it has funds for conservation and environmental protection, to ensure that there will be more fish? Do you object to limits on the number of fish you can catch or how you can catch them so there will be enough fish in the future, for you and all the animals who live on them, or will you just take as many as you can catch in a net and hope that other people aren't doing the same?

You wouldn't have clean water or safe fish to eat (if any at all) without regulation. The libertarian position opposes that sort of regulation. Just ask any CEO of a chemical company.

[lovebugg]

67. I have never paid for a fishing license There was no one to pay

I would go to the river and catch fish for winter .

Why would I pay someone to catch fish from the river and oceans
They do not own them

[Ocelot II]

75. So you just help yourself

to as many fish as you want and let others pay to keep the water and the beaches clean, restock the fish, make sure there are enough? Fishing without a license is basically theft from the public, you don’t own those fish either.

[lovebugg]

78. As many as I want ?

Only enough for winter
Beaches ? No beaches no people there just me
restock ? Fish give birth in river no one puts them in there

[The Magistrate]

79. Sounds Like A Lonely Life....

[lovebugg]

81. In city now to visit

Not lonely
have wolves , moose , eagles

In city so far I see many lonely people

[Hekate]

97. Enjoy your stay

[lovebugg]

112. Friends house nice but will be leaving soon

[KS Toronado]

125. Your friend a member of the Democratic Underground forum here?

[obamanut2012]

134. Why are you talking like some 1950s "TV Indian" like Tonto?

[Hekate]

156. I had a friend who taught himself Standard English by copying the Lone Ranger, not Tonto

[obamanut2012]

173. lol

[Hekate]

179. The man had beautiful, well-modulated voice & could recite episodes. "Him dead, Kemo Sabe"...

…made me double up with uncontrollable laughter.

He was born and raised in the US, like me, but there the resemblance pretty much ended. Our paths crossed at University of Hawai’i about 1970 — I was raised in Hawai’i and he was from a Black neighborhood in Chicago. In explaining his language journey he gave me a sample of the only way he knew how to talk until he was drafted (incomprehensible to an outsider) . He decided to change his prospects and teach himself another language — and like my husband, whose first language was Belgian French until the age of 6, television was a great help. Hi-yo, Silver…

[dpibel]

82. Improv is so cool

Yes, and...

[Hekate]

98. Well spotted, dpibel

[herding cats]

100. Andy Kaufman is writhing in his grave.

[Hekate]

96. What the aitch does that have to do with being "allowed here" ?

[Oneironaut]

140. "You see, it's ok for corporations to hoard water and sell it for a premium, because they have the means to do so.'

This in turn stimulates the local economy, at a small expense of massive pollution and a complete destruction of the environment. We should be grateful they let us have any of that water. /s

[senseandsensibility]

21. What other libertarian positions

do you support? The pro choice position is shared by progressives and libertarians so it would not be prohibited here. Are there positions that are exclusively libertarian that you agree with?

[lovebugg]

24. I would have to check to see what other stuff they agree with

I have never been very political

[Cha]

38. Then Why did you join DU which is a Democratic

Political site?

[lovebugg]

39. I was reading it and everybody seemed friendly

I guess that?

[Cha]

40. We're Serious about Saving Our Democracy.

[KS Toronado]

49. Just curious

What city are you living in now? Employed, self employed, or own a business?

[Ferrets are Cool]

83. Doubtful you will get an answer to that one.

[dpibel]

87. On another interesting thread

the poster indicates, or intimates, or vaguely suggests that he, she, or it is in Boston.

Which is a long way from the shining big sea waters, you must admit.

[lovebugg]

109. I do not live here Boston is the city

I was asked to bring money to help out my friend
she said she had trouble with losing house

I didn't have money but have gold and brought her 3 pouches
She said more than I need . I don't really need money the way I live but
much gold in part of river I know

[FreeState]

113. How did you get to Boston?

Sold some of those pouches of gold that I assume you panned yourself in Alaska?

[lovebugg]

114. she told me ticket will be there

she bought ticket for me to go and come back

I went and left because had trouble going on plane with gold
I took 3 boats to get there long time but this time will fly back

Can pan but don't have to big nuggets can see in water but smaller will pan for
I don't tell anyone where ever . Some people ask when sold some once and I didn't like
gave money to village elder to build new house

[JustAnotherGen]

123. Do they have

The Google machine there?

[Scrivener7]

147. Screw that. Do they have pronouns and articles there?

Many figures of speech seem missing in wilderness cabin with much easy gold.

[Blue Dawn]

162. You confuse me.

I looked up your profile and your previous posts, and you seemed quite capable of expressing yourself in a normal manner.

What is up with the broken English?

[Blue Dawn]

167. Thank you for responding.

Since I don't know you, I will not jump to conclusions.

[Scrivener7]

191. Here's one from lovebugg a couple days ago that dpibel linked to below. It's really very erudite.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18643733

lovebugg (56 posts)
18. The jury believed her so that's all that mattered in the case

What anyone else really thinks doesn't matter and I'm sure she doesn't care. She going to maybe get a lot of money after a few years if the appeals process loses'

As to the date I don't think many questioned if it was real because of the date . It was the year she changed after the dress
she had on the magazine cover claiming it was the original one she wearing and had Trumps DNA on it.

The designer was contacted and said the dress wasn't available until early 1995 for the retail market and she said
the assault must have been 1995 then changed it again to maybe 1996

I think that with claiming she had his DNA on it and the dress mistakes and the Law Order episode that played on TV
of the woman being raped in that same dept store changing room probably had a lot to do with it.

Good thing was all this stuff the judge ruled was inadmissible during the trial so it helped her out .

But lovebugg tells us their friend helped them write this, so that explains everything! Back to panning for gold, I guess.

[Scrivener7]

195. Of course she did. In return for three bags of gold.

[Scrivener7]

199. So you said. But... maybe it's time to go back to the cabin you built so you could grow up in it, and to your

hand-fed wolf. I'm sure they all miss you.

[Scrivener7]

203. Probably a good thing. The persona has run its course.

You're welcome.

[Scrivener7]

187. Don't be sorry way you speak. Way you speak was fine in early posts this thread. Seems since then

pronouns and articles and now tenses disappear from way you speak.

Parts of speech disappear happen sometimes.

[obamanut2012]

136. Okay, this is no longer funny because of your continous "TV Indian" speak

It is quite offensive to me.

[Hekate]

190. Do you like anchovies on your pizza?

[Hekate]

197. heap big pizza, crispy crust

[obamanut2012]

210. .....

[obamanut2012]

208. Boston pizza may have cod on it -- or baked beans

[betsuni]

240. Since that person lives in Connecticut they must be familiar with the famous white clam pizzas

popular in that region. Always wanted to try one.

[Fla Dem]

177. Just curious. By your manner of writing English and saying you traveled by boat

are you an American citizen, or grow up in America? No problem either way, but even saying you grew up in a log cabin you built yourself makes me wonder.
If not OK, you certainly ask some good questions about how things are done.

[Hekate]

181. Well, if you spread it all around it will make the flowers grow

[obamanut2012]

135. They grew up in a cabin they self built as an infant

Far from a village in Alaska. Now they are in Boston. They speak like a racist "TV Indian" from a 1950s TV Western. They do not believe in paying to fish or water bills.

That is what I was able to glean.

[Hekate]

183. And (this is really great) they pan for gold up thar in the Yukon & brought 3 pouches of same to Boston

…to help their friend pay off the house bills!!!! Isn’t that fabulous?

We are entering Door Buzzard territory at last.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

205. They read like Chuck Tingle

But without the gay sex with inanimate objects, or the wholesome takedowns of the alt-right.

[obamanut2012]

211. I wonder if they bomb the moon in the Yukon?

I think I read about that in Call of the Wild.

[ShazzieB]

239. That right there - the 3 pouches of gold - was where I fell over laughing!

[obamanut2012]

144. Jack Londontown

[JI7]

29. No, most libertarians are not pro choice. Ron Paul is anti choice

and he is the most popular libertarians.

[senseandsensibility]

36. ughhh

Well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Keep the gubmint out of white males' (only)
business except of course when said white male needs help from the gubmint.

[JI7]

27. That's a civil rights and human rights position

most libertarians are anti choice.

[WarGamer]

31. this might help

From Mother Jones

[lindysalsagal]

43. Libertarians don't understand that roads don't pave themselves

Originally, the steam train robber barrons put down train tracks at different widths so that other trains could not use them. It took federalizing transportation to end that regressive, controlling practice.

Rinse, repeat, for everything: trade, defense, education, food, drug, air, water safety. Some things can only happen with the organization of government.

Do you travel freely around your city? Your government gave you that right.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

50. Government did NOT give the right to travel freely in your city

You HAVE that right naturally.

Government enforces that right. Big difference. Government defends the right to move around.

Your example of train tracks is excellent.

[limbicnuminousity]

51. Who do you think should have a say over a woman's body?

To save time: And what federal protections should women have against local, state-wide bans on abortion? And should transportation along federal highways be protected if a woman leaves an anti-abortion state to have an abortion outside of that state?

Edit 2. Saving more time. Should a woman be forced to carry a non-viable fetus until it miscarries if local laws prohibit abortion?

[Progressive dog]

53. What would make that view point

exclusively libertarian? It might be one of the few view points Libertarians share with me.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

56. My screenname is a fictional "rational libertarian"

Basically, he believes in a libertarian ideal, but is first and foremost a realist and pragmatist and thus happily co-exists with many other political stripes.

Libertarianism is a fantastic ideal, just as communism is a fantastic ideal. By "fantastic" I mean the "fantasy" sense of the word.

Libertarians imagine a world where everyone is focused on working hard to get ahead and everyone is cooperating to get stuff done because it is in their best interests; cooperating by being careful and responsible. Communists imagine a world where everyone works at their best ability and everyone gets what they need and the rest is spread around.

Both ideologies are imagining idealized human beings who are cooperative, work hard, never exploit anyone and jointly make life fair in somewhat different senses. Both will never be achieved because they are both unrealistic.

I value highly freedoms and rights, but I believe no right is in isolation. Rights are shared and not owned. Rights are frequently in conflict and have to be balanced. That means no pure form of social governance, no crystalline distillation into simplest principles will ever be sufficient or workable or desirable.

I believe that in the future, government will be reduced but never eliminated. The only way it will be reduced is when people learn to get along without shooting each other, bombing each other, exploiting each other, or being nasty to each other. To the extent that people the world over cooperate with each other responsibly and respectfully, ... to that extent government can be reduced. Though that is an idealistic dream, it is a dream worth having. "Imagine." But don't depend on it arriving next week.

For example, libertarians believe government should get out of things like welfare and providing health care. The libertarian fantasy is that everyone will be motivated to donate to charity and it will all work out. The reality is that the poor donate a much larger percentage of their income than rich people do, despite rich people having a much much greater percentage of disposable income to give out.

So I hold libertarianism as an unobtainable ideal that is worth moving towards by enlightening and educating the public, especially the rich fuckers who should know better but are very unenlightened. It seems that money and privilege are counterproductive for enlightenment. I also hold that it is a better ideal than marxism or communism.

My liberal progressive libertarianism is a far cry from Republican faux libertarianism and much closer to liberalism, progressivism, Democratic policies, and Canadian Liberal Party / New Democratic Party policies.

Thus I am comfortable here, and very glad to be accepted for what I post from time to time.

[The Magistrate]

61. Well Said, Professor!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

62. A kind word from you, your Honour, is especially treasured. . . . nt

[Hekate]

99. Well-stated, Bernardo

[Mosby]

192. So I'm not the only one.

I encountered libertarianism in a book I read as a kid, and gave it some thought. I didn't know the name at the time, but seems like something we could think of as a near impossible ideal, but maybe with a lot more social and personal evolution, we might be able to develop that degree of responsibility, compassion and concern where everyone follows a moral/ethical code without the need for most laws.

The book was A Martian Odyssey by Stanley Weinbaum.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

227. Thanks. I'll have to keep an eye out for that book. . . . nt

[Kennah]

57. Thom Hartmann says, "Libertarians are just Republicans who wanna smoke pot and get laid."

[Kennah]

59. I've heard it said there are RW libertarians and LW libertarians

[Bernardo de La Paz]

63. Yes. Everybody leans. Nobody is pure.

The fallacy of all-or-nothing yes/no black/white all-bad/all-good kind of thinking is a dead end, intellectual laziness and a lack of introspection.

I'm a progressive liberal and Liberal (Canadian party) who leans libertarian. Since we are not libertarian as societies and since we will never be libertarian, I'm happy as I am while seeking to enlighten people and shift things slightly in the libertarian direction.

The Pauls are faux libertarians who lean loony.

[The Magistrate]

64. In An Older Parlance, Sir, Anarchists Were Refered To As Libertarians

You'll see the usage in describing Spanish politics before the civil war, when Anarchists fielded a great trade-union coalition and a working political party. Which provided much of the Left's strength when fighting broke out.

[DBoon]

70. RW libertarians want to free the wealthy and powerful from the constraints of the state

See Ayn Rand as an example.

LW libertarians want to free the working class and peasantry from the oppression of the state.

LW libertarians ("Anarchists" ) make the most sense when speaking of a society comprised of peasants. The Makhnovist Revolution in Ukraine after the 1917 revolution is an example.

[DBoon]

68. Are we allowed to express a Republican view point here? No

A libertarian perspective on the Democratic view point may be useful

Democrats usually believe humans have equal inherent dignity, that wealth and income should not confer control over society. Most libertarians are fine with the wealthy having control, as private property outweighs other restraints.

[DemocraticPatriot]

91. Of course one must differentiate between what I consider the 'classical libertarian' view

that the people should be able to exercise the freedom to control their own personal lives,
(things that are described as "social issues" now, and the position to which most of the Democratic Party is sympathetic),

and the polar opposite of the Democratic party on economic issues, and whether the government should be employed to try to improve the lives of the people (to which the modern American Libertarian party is totally OPPOSED--)

The Libertarian party is basically opposed to all taxes,
and consider the Constitutional amendment instituting the Income Tax,
to be "illegitimate"...

Indeed, on economic issues and the 'proper role of government',
there is little difference between the Libertarian and Republican parties....


I would not be insulted if someone calls me a "libertarian",
but just don't call me a "Libertarian"....

[brush]

72. That's not libertarian. It's common sense and what this board is about.

[republianmushroom]

77. Agree

[czarjak]

80. Libertarianism

Screw anyone who isn’t me.

[Hekate]

88. We are Democrats -- and supporters of Democrats

Last edited Fri Feb 2, 2024, 01:22 AM - Edit history (1)

Libertarians very often present themselves as Republicans who like sex and smoking pot (which makes them kind of a joke among Dems) but otherwise seem to have little in common with our particular politics.

By all means stick around if you find us congenial. And do read the TOS, which you signed.

[DemocraticPatriot]

89. I think most Democrats take a "libertarian" view on social issues---

that is 'libertarian' with a small L, as opposed to "Libertarian" as in having to do with the "Libertarian Party"....

In their personal lives, Americans should be free to make their own decisions, as long as those decisions do not infringe upon the rights of others....
(and therein lies much of the argument--- those on the far right seem to believe that when citizens who exercise liberties with which they do not agree, that it somehow infringes on "their rights"--- which is an obvious blatant falsehood.)

The Democratic Party is the only party remaining which defends individual freedoms,
regardless of what other parties may call themselves...

As I have read in this thread, most here now seem to consider those positions to be 'progressive',
which is also true--- but they are based on personal liberty--- thus "libertarian" in the classical definition,
but not necessarily the position of the modern "Libertarian Party" in the United States.

That said, I have known some adherents to the Libertarian Party who were opposed to the government attempting to regulate or limit abortion--- which was the correct position for them to take, if the name of their party means anything...

However, as far as the rules of this forum go, this is a forum for Democrats---
thus, expressing support for the Libertarian PARTY,
or any party but the Democratic Party, is not allowable under the rules.

However, since you wrote 'libertarian' with a small L,
my answer to your question would be YES, IMHO.

[Arthur_Frain]

101. This sounds like the beginning of a troll to me.

nt

[dpibel]

102. O....M....G!!!

That is so rich!

Thank you, Arthur, for one of the best laughs ever.

[blogslug]

104. Is this you?

Support Democrats

Do not post support for Republicans or independent/third-party "spoiler" candidates. Do not state that you are not going to vote, or that you will write-in a candidate that is not on the ballot, or that you intend to vote for any candidate other than the official Democratic nominee in any general election where a Democrat is on the ballot. Do not post anything that smears Democrats generally, or that is intended to dissuade people from supporting the Democratic Party or its candidates. Don't argue there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats.

source: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[LetMyPeopleVote]

105. RFK Jr. is evidently considering running as a libertarian

Supporting RFK Jr. would be against this board's policies

Link to tweet

[herding cats]

106. In a word? No.

This is not Libertarian Underground. Sorry, not sorry. I'm 100% not buying the schtick.

I, personally, want absolutely nothing to do with any of the Libertarian politicians I've ever met. I've met and spoke to several from local to state level. I met Ron Paul back in the day. I've never encountered a more anti regulation, anti government, person who was more than happy to take his government benefits and paycheck than him. What a hypocrite he was. Their supporters are even worse. Ron Paulite types who want to not pay taxes and have zero regulations and somehow think we can self-regulate. News flash. Assholes are literally destroying the world for creature comforts and corporate profits. We cannot self-regulate.

Beyond the fact they run as spoilers in many states, I've never met a single one who was sincere beyond padding their pockets and making sure Democrats lose. It's a nifty gig if you can get it, but they're not a genuine party and I'm positive they're not pro choice anymore as my nutcase neighbor has changed their stance. If anyone here knows a nutty Libertarian they can attest to the fact they're a whack-a-doodle fringe party.

So yeah, I'm definitely not about to entertain some lame faux (which makes it even more lame) Libertarian crap here on a Democratic site. That's not now, nor ever, who we are here.

[Ohio Joe]

117. Fuck libertarians

They should all get a quick pizza.

[betsuni]

118. "Dances with Wolves libertarian and the Pouches of Gold" will make a fabulous movie.

[JustAnotherGen]

121. No words

[obamanut2012]

137. The "TV Indian" talk really oversold it

OP needs to tweak their routine.

[dpibel]

165. The Tonto-speak appeared mid-journey

Within this very thread, the OP went from a person who knew about pronouns to someone who'd make Iron Eyes Cody cry.

Some serious improv, man.

My guess is that this is a person with some experience who believes there's a number of posts to reach that gives relative protection from certain negative events.

This is a pretty clever way to pile up a bunch of posts without having to say anything substantive.

Don't be too surprised when Three Pouch Gold suddenly turns raving MAGA.

[obamanut2012]

171. You pan gold

You neo Jack London. Where sled dog? You pan gold Placerville, too?

[obamanut2012]

170. Well said

[AZSkiffyGeek]

216. How?

[KS Toronado]

146. Believe we could use some of this on this OP

[dpibel]

175. Check this early post from our friend

Just a couple of days ago, our wilderness-dwelling friend not only knew about pronouns and standard English word-order, he knew about conditions, including taxation, in Hartford, CT. What's more, somehow taxes on his childhood construction project had gone up 35% and he got a letter to that effect, apparently from the far distant village where he does not live.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10421867#post1


lovebugg (56 posts)
3. No guns lol
Reply to CTyankee (Reply #1)
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 09:47 PM

They have shootings weekly in Hartford


lovebugg (56 posts)
2. I wish there was a way to make them realize property taxes are really hurting people here
Reply to question everything (Original post)
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 09:43 PM

Towns have gone insane

Mine is going up 35%

Got the letter in the mail last month

[dpibel]

178. Even better

A mere 24 hours before the devolution into Nanook of the North, our friend was opining at length on the weakness of E. Jean Carroll's case, reciting a set of FoxNews talking points. Nearly unmasked on that one.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18643733

[obamanut2012]

212. Maybe they have gold poisoning

[JustAnotherGen]

120. That's a Democratic Party Statement

Are you a Libertarian or a Democratic?

[betsuni]

124. I don't understand the OP.

[JustAnotherGen]

139. Emergency Pizza

From Dominos?

[obamanut2012]

169. So, did you pan for the gold in the Yukon?

There's a pretty good fella up there who can give you a hand named Jack London.

[Hekate]

188. Charlie Chaplin too

[Torchlight]

128. Going through the thread, there appears to be a lack of understanding on your part as to the

libertarian's party's differences, platform, and convictions. I'd think spending a day or two with Wikipedia or a library and look at the libertarian ideal, its method to practically achieve it (if any), and getting a grasp on what it stands for, what it supports, and what it opposes before declaring yourself an ally of any one political party. It's a difficult thing to proclaim green our favorite color if we've never been exposed to green.

[ok_cpu]

129. "But this rule is persistently violated in the "Deerslayer" tale."

They require that crass stupidities shall not be played upon the reader as "the craft of the woodsman, the delicate art of the forest.

Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses
by Mark Twain
https://twain.lib.virginia.edu/projects/rissetto/offense.html

[Swede]

149. Libertarians are like house cats:

Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand.

[Hekate]

204. I like that, a lot

[niyad]

244. I once got asked to leave a libertarian town hall meeting, simply because I

made the observation (having sat silently listening for about half an hour), that they all wanted small government, but one large enough to give them a taxpayer-funded job, and that "libertarian politician" is an oxymoron.

Some people are sooooooo touchy!!!

[Polybius]

150. A little off topic, but is there a link to a list of things that we are allowed to disagree on without getting banned?

For example, I see some here are for the death penalty. Some are anti-immigration. I'm anti-property taxes. Are people here allowed to express that viewpoint? What about voting for non-Democrats years ago? I voted for Bloomberg in 2005.

[Hekate]

186. Absolutely. The answers to all your questions are in the Terms of Service.

[obamanut2012]

174. Why I love this thread: it is unifying

So many debates, etc. the last few weeks re: I/P issues and other things, yet this thread brings us all together!

Or, rather: Thread bring together!

[GiqueCee]

182. A little boy said to his mother...

... "When I grow up, I'm gonna be a Libertarian!"

His mother replied, "Well, dear, which is it going to be? You can't do both."

[beaglelover]

215. Love this thread!

[beaglelover]

225. Going back to the Cave, huh?

[Hekate]

229. LOL. Does that still exist? // omg I just looked it up and it does

[beaglelover]

231. Yep, those deplorables are constantly trying to infiltrate DU. Losers. LOL!

[dpibel]

230. I smell a sequel

"News is good!"

"When back to village I come, elder with machine go on snow give machine make spark in wires. And give magic box speak to moving stars in sky. Oh. Also little box name tab-lit."

"Now I talk to nice DU peoples from cabin."

"Day most happy."

[beaglelover]

232. Hilarious!

[betsuni]

234. I was actually just about to check over there to see if they'd post about this, but nothing yet.

They get very excited at being mentioned here so I don't think they'll be able to resist.

[ShazzieB]

241. What exactly is the Cave?

That's a new one on me. Is that its real name? (I'm guessing not, based on a quick Google search, lol.)

[betsuni]

243. The Conservative Cave.

First time I heard it here I thought "the Cave" was a nickname, but no, it's a Cave. Trolls banned from DU and totally obsessed with it for years and years, have a forum called "The DUmpster" where they obsess. Bragged about trolling, gave DUers insulting nicknames, an award for the worst DUer of the year. I admit, sometimes it was sort of funny (unless my posts were made fun of, of course). But they were horrible about doxxing people, very scary.

Now there are hardly any members, a shadow of its former self, boring. But still obsessing about DU! I look at it every few months when I remember.

[ShazzieB]

245. Thanks!

I'll have to check it sometime.

[Scrivener7]

236. Ohhhh. They're gone? That one was original!!!

[Brother Buzz]

238. I believe he is enjoying his second pizza

Trolls love eating pizza under the bridge