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Nevilledog

(55,075 posts)
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 07:25 PM Feb 2024

"I prosecuted Watergate and never feared for our democracy -- but Greg Abbott has me worried"

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/greg-abbott-border-supreme-court-immigration-biden-rcna136746

I am not an alarmist by nature. From my time as a prosecutor investigating the Watergate scandal, I have never doubted that justice would prevail or that democracy would survive. I never doubted that our union would last — until now.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott’s actions at the southern border and his reaction to the Supreme Court’s decision in favor of the federal government make me fear for the continued existence of the United States of America. So does his signing of an expansive new law that gives the state's law enforcement powers over immigration that rightly belong to the federal government, not to Texas or any other state. In fact, should the Supreme Court rule against the Biden administration‘s challenge to that law, that would have consequences for every federal policy, not just immigration policy.

It has long been accepted that the federal government controls immigration, national security, international relations and our borders. Despite the clarity of federal and state roles, in July last year, Abbott placed a 1000-foot-long string of buoys, separated by serrated saw blades and supporting a submerged mesh net, in the middle of the Rio Grande near Eagle Pass, Texas. Not only did this unconstitutional move spark protests from the Mexican government and migrant advocates, but also at least two migrants were found dead in the buoy barriers. In addition, among other incidents, a pregnant migrant was rescued but miscarried while stuck in the wire. That makes it inhumane, as well as unconstitutional.

Yet, while the courts forced Abbott to remove that dangerous obstacle to migrants and transportation from the Rio Grande, the Texas National Guard continued to install razor wire at the edge of the state’s land border. When federal agents cut that wire last fall, Texas sued the U.S. for damage to state property. Last week, the Supreme Court ruled against Abbott and affirmed the Department of Homeland Security’s right to remove the wire and to have access to the border to carry out the department’s duties. Two days later, Abbott issued a statement threatening to stonewall, much as then-President Richard Nixon did when he was subpoenaed for White House tape recordings that he didn’t want my team of Watergate prosecutors to have.

*snip*
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"I prosecuted Watergate and never feared for our democracy -- but Greg Abbott has me worried" (Original Post) Nevilledog Feb 2024 OP
K&R Docreed2003 Feb 2024 #1
Very scary Joinfortmill Feb 2024 #2
These people are embolden ... why is that? dmr Feb 2024 #3
Agreed once you start having elected leaders ignore FloridaBlues Feb 2024 #4
Attribute quote to Jill Wine Banks Bobstandard Feb 2024 #5
Sometimes as Obama said, being president is hard. This is one of those times. PatrickforB Feb 2024 #6
Seems like Abbott has been daring the federal government to "send in the troops" for a while now. sop Feb 2024 #12
Yeah, but in the end, if he has to, most people in this country will applaud. Especially if he also PatrickforB Feb 2024 #28
If he keeps breaking the law, arrest him. Johonny Feb 2024 #7
We should all be worried Tickle Feb 2024 #8
I wouldn't say half the country is taking Abbot's side. Mr.Bill Feb 2024 #11
Certainly half the country is NOT taking Abbot's side. Most of the U.S.A. doesn't know about this, and most of us Stuart G Feb 2024 #29
My state was on that map last week Marthe48 Feb 2024 #15
Then the same could be said Tickle Feb 2024 #16
Unfortunately the civil war we find ourselves fighting Marthe48 Feb 2024 #19
I'm so sorry you live near Tickle Feb 2024 #21
Thank you Marthe48 Feb 2024 #24
I think that markodochartaigh Feb 2024 #17
Trump won't be able to destroy U.S. democracy if Abbott destroys it first. What a debacle. (n/t) thesquanderer Feb 2024 #9
I see it more as a stunt Abbott is pulling Mr.Bill Feb 2024 #10
You mean before Abbott de-nationalizes them for the Texas National Guard? bucolic_frolic Feb 2024 #13
He can't do that. n/t Mr.Bill Feb 2024 #18
Oh yeah? He's trying everything else. /nt bucolic_frolic Feb 2024 #20
Right after they dismantle Tickle Feb 2024 #14
Jill Wine-Banks is the author. She's earned a lot of respect -- and this is scary stuff. Hekate Feb 2024 #22
And he's not in jail because...? ecstatic Feb 2024 #23
Election year Polybius Feb 2024 #25
RELEASE: Greg Abbott Escalates Border Standoff by Mobilizing MAGA Extremists LetMyPeopleVote Feb 2024 #26
Abbott wants to incite a confrontation where POTUS Biden federalizes the TNG. PufPuf23 Feb 2024 #27
This tells me that they won't listen to Biden: Polybius Feb 2024 #31
Abbutt can be forcibly removed as governor. roamer65 Feb 2024 #30
And a lost election Polybius Feb 2024 #32
Just let this asshole... GiqueCee Feb 2024 #33

Docreed2003

(18,714 posts)
1. K&R
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 07:29 PM
Feb 2024

We all need to stay locked in on what Abbot is trying through his boarder policy. This is dangerous territory

dmr

(28,705 posts)
3. These people are embolden ... why is that?
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 07:44 PM
Feb 2024

What would it take to put them in their place?

Could Abbott be jailed for Obstructing the Federal government?

Does an American have to be killed? (Migrants have died, and they don't care, which is why I said American.)

Idk, I'm completely ignorant about any of this. But I do know right from wrong.

FloridaBlues

(4,664 posts)
4. Agreed once you start having elected leaders ignore
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 08:17 PM
Feb 2024

The laws from Supreme Court in this case other Governors could ignore federal laws and that’s dangerous in a democracy.
This just can’t be ignored.

Bobstandard

(2,292 posts)
5. Attribute quote to Jill Wine Banks
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 09:09 PM
Feb 2024

The attribution should be made early in this post to identify the auras Judi Wine-Banks. Only fair.

PatrickforB

(15,420 posts)
6. Sometimes as Obama said, being president is hard. This is one of those times.
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 09:12 PM
Feb 2024

If Abbott continues thumbing his nose at the federal government, Biden will be faced with the difficult duty of sending in troops.

Because a state - any state - doesn't get to do that. LBJ did not want to do it, but he sent troops into Alabama in 1965 to face down Alabama troopers with firehoses and vicious dogs that were killing children.

Sorry, but as the message carved into the base of the statue in Jackson Square, New Orleans says, "The Union can and will be preserved."

sop

(18,536 posts)
12. Seems like Abbott has been daring the federal government to "send in the troops" for a while now.
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 09:59 PM
Feb 2024

So he and his fellow Texans can say they were right all along about Jade Helm and other crazy shit.

PatrickforB

(15,420 posts)
28. Yeah, but in the end, if he has to, most people in this country will applaud. Especially if he also
Sat Feb 3, 2024, 01:34 AM
Feb 2024

can make some sweeping change to immigration policy at the same time.

Hard row to hoe, I know....hey, that rhymed!...but if anyone can, Biden can do it.

 

Tickle

(4,131 posts)
8. We should all be worried
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 09:24 PM
Feb 2024

This is not good, half the country is standing with TX while the other half wants the federal government to go in and take over the half of the country that's standing with TX. It's a lose lose. No one is going to win and I have no idea what this country will look like in a year.

Mr.Bill

(24,906 posts)
11. I wouldn't say half the country is taking Abbot's side.
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 09:55 PM
Feb 2024

Half the governors, yes, but not half the country.

Stuart G

(38,726 posts)
29. Certainly half the country is NOT taking Abbot's side. Most of the U.S.A. doesn't know about this, and most of us
Sat Feb 3, 2024, 01:36 AM
Feb 2024

don't want another Civil War."

Further, most of the U.S.A. doesn't know the horrors of the Civil War. If you want to know, read some books about
the "Civil War." It was totally awful. Very primitive medical care, not enough medicines, poor medicines, not enough
supplies, it took days to transport anything. (The railroads were not completed at that time in the 1860s) .............
ALSO: DON'T FORGET THIS ONE: NO TELEPHONES. (TELEPHONES WERE NOT INVENTED TILL LATER.}
Almost everyone traveled by horseback and stage coach.

It was a different time in society, that few people know about. No electricity, no phones, no cars, no taxi cabs, few railroads,
no trucks to transport goods, few colleges, most people could not read, NO TVs and NO COMPUTERS...(I just had to add
that one)..and think of this one:..........NO TOILETS as we know them....just outhouses.

The 1860s were different times. Yes, most people don't know U.S. History. (and I taught it in high school for close to
30 years.) All the U.S. History used to be in encyclopedias, but now it right there on the computer & the internet. ........
.........I have to add this one too...........(If you have the..."INTERNET" YOU ALSO HAVE A LIBRARY OF ENORMOUS SIZE)
...............(I am running out of gas, I need to take a rest...talk to you later.)

Marthe48

(23,150 posts)
15. My state was on that map last week
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 10:06 PM
Feb 2024

The red states that support abbott. I don't support abbott, even if I live in (the formerly) great state of ohio. We have a bunch of rwnj mouthing off and ruining this state, but it doesn't mean everyone in the state supports abbott or maga or rwnj.

 

Tickle

(4,131 posts)
16. Then the same could be said
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 10:13 PM
Feb 2024

for blue states who are not participating. I'm sure there are conservatives wishing their blue states would support TX. Maybe I'm just over reacting but I see two sides hating each other so much that they've lost common sense.

Marthe48

(23,150 posts)
19. Unfortunately the civil war we find ourselves fighting
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 10:27 PM
Feb 2024

is neighbor against neighbor, state against state. I have no desire to be friends with people who live in houses near me, because they are living the rwnj dream. One of them told me they traveled almost 2 hours to see traitor, because they wanted to see a real president. Another supported traitor, even though they have daughters who would have attracted unwanted attention from traitor. Another still displays a traitor sign in their yard. I am not on the wrong side, and I hope there are enough Americans who will stand on this side when push comes to shove. I have no respect for what traitor has done and what abbott is attempting. abbott was probably on track to be this awful before the tree crippled him and put him in a wheel chair. That unfortunate incident just sped up his ego trip and delusions of grandeur. But whoever keeps voting rwnj into office have to live with their votes and they need to realize that they are in the wrong, and their actions are destabilizing the only country in the world that would let them get away with their crap.

 

Tickle

(4,131 posts)
21. I'm so sorry you live near
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 10:36 PM
Feb 2024

those people. I'm not sure how I would handle them. 💜💜💜
We are here for you

Marthe48

(23,150 posts)
24. Thank you
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 11:10 PM
Feb 2024

I probably used to be more outgoing. I think we all understand the dynamics of our street. I had as many signs for Democratic candidates and issues in my yard that the local headquarters offered.

markodochartaigh

(5,538 posts)
17. I think that
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 10:16 PM
Feb 2024

about one quarter of the US is authoritarian and supports Abbott. About another 10% are willing to go along because they think that they can use the authoritarians to get power for themselves, like the German industrialists thought that they could control Hitler. In the middle are about one third of the US who don't have any real grasp of what is going on, and mostly don't care as long as they get their hamberders and sportsball. Many of these people can be frightened into supporting Strong Leaders with promises of quick and sure answers. I think that the Democratic leadership must win the hearts and minds of as many of these people as possible so that the third of the US who care about democracy will come out on top.

thesquanderer

(13,001 posts)
9. Trump won't be able to destroy U.S. democracy if Abbott destroys it first. What a debacle. (n/t)
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 09:45 PM
Feb 2024

Mr.Bill

(24,906 posts)
10. I see it more as a stunt Abbott is pulling
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 09:53 PM
Feb 2024

to force a confrontation with Biden. Biden so far is not taking the bait. If we take both houses of Congress for Biden's second term, it will be a whole different game.

Right now I think it would be a good idea for Biden to slowly start removing personnel and equipment out of the military bases in Texas. He can do that with the stroke of the pen, and Abbott can't do a damn thing about it.

Hekate

(100,133 posts)
22. Jill Wine-Banks is the author. She's earned a lot of respect -- and this is scary stuff.
Fri Feb 2, 2024, 10:41 PM
Feb 2024

PufPuf23

(9,832 posts)
27. Abbott wants to incite a confrontation where POTUS Biden federalizes the TNG.
Sat Feb 3, 2024, 01:11 AM
Feb 2024

But federalizing the TNG is the correct action to stop the madness.

The GOP enablers and owners spin any opportunity in an attempt to bring down POTUS Biden

Don't know answers to present problems, given health and age, my curiosity about the future will not be satisfied.

Could never have imagined anything like the present.

roamer65

(37,951 posts)
30. Abbutt can be forcibly removed as governor.
Sat Feb 3, 2024, 02:27 AM
Feb 2024

All it takes is a federal arrest warrant and the federal troops to do it.

GiqueCee

(4,204 posts)
33. Just let this asshole...
Sat Feb 3, 2024, 06:17 PM
Feb 2024

... keep digging his own political grave. Abbott is a psychopath, so he cannot conceive of limits or boundaries to his political ambitions. And, like all psychopaths, he is a liar and a bully, a combination that will be his undoing. So just let him dig. It'll be fun.

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