For those that thought the Justice System would save our democracy?

[kentuck]

With the delays by the Defendant Trump and the apparent delays by the Appeals Court, along with Judge Cannon in Florida, many doubt that the Judiciary is up to the job.

Perhaps the delays are simply part of the normal process? But it would seem that the normal process would recognize the immediate dangers to our democracy and act accordingly. We have seen the courts act quickly in the past, when they have deemed it necessary.

Would the Judiciary put politics over justice? Would they decide that this is such a hot potato that only the voters can make a decision about guilt or innocence?

We would like to think otherwise, but who knows?

[Lonestarblue]

1. I do believe that the judiciary is putting politics over law.

Here is a comment I wrote this morning in response to a Ruth Marcus piece in the Washington Post on the irresponsible court delays.

Our federal court judges are letting the American people down by denying them the right to know whether the person they are voting for is a convicted criminal. This is deliberate behavior on their part and is the result of right-wing judges who put their party loyalty above the needs of the country. Trump’s ludicrous claim that as president he has immunity for any crime committed while in office or for the rest of his life after leaving office is such nonsense that a local traffic court judge could determine that he does not, yet it is taking the most learned judges in the land months to figure this out. The SC could have settled this issue in days, but refused to do so.

The partisanship being shown to Trump by the federal courts is totally undemocratic. No other person would receive the complete support of the federal courts to achieve his goal of delaying his trials for criminal actions indefinitely and perhaps forever. If Trump his elected, he will appoint an Attorney General who will immediately withdraw all charges. Republicans in the Georgia legislature are trying to pass laws that he cannot be prosecuted for illegally demanding that enough fake votes be created so he could win Georgia.

We do not need to wait until Trump is in the White House again to see how democracy is being eroded. We have seen it since he appointed the three MAGA judges to the SC and the hundreds of MAGA judges to the circuit courts. Democracy is about personal freedom and equality under the law. We no longer have that, as right-wing religious views that treat women and LGBTQ+ as unequal citizens have become law. We no longer have equality when one man can evade justice with the highest courts in the land helping him. No other person who committed the same crimes would get that treatment. Indeed, many of those who committed crimes at his instigation are now sitting in jail.

[gab13by13]

3. Well said,

Not only have the courts shown deference to Trump, where the hell is the IRS? He took out a bogus 48 million dollar loan from himself to avoid taxes. I just did my taxes and I guarantee that if I put down a deduction without proper documentation, the IRS is going to nail me. Someone in the IRS is also protecting Trump.

[Farmer-Rick]

11. My spouse use to do the taxes

But when they died, I had to dig into it. I ended up owing a fine for not paying enough estimated taxes in one quarter. I paid the tax, I just didn't pay $1,000 enough. I hate the IRS with a passion.

They hounded my grandfather who only had an 8th grade education and never made more than $20,000 a year. He was selected for an audit every year for 4 straight years. It made him so upset. They woul have kept it up if my Mom hadn't gone in with him one year and claimed harassment. He died from a bleeding stomach ulcer.

Did they ever fine Trump for being late in paying his taxes? A Big Fat NO. Look at all the loan forgiveness he got out of banks that he never paid taxes on.

Do you think the IRS would look the other way if you failed to pay your taxes on a loan forgiveness?

I was auditted by the IRS while I was deployed on active duty. They ended up owing me money.

The IRS is just the right arm of the filthy-rich.

[cilla4progress]

15. I appreciated Marcus' OPED in WAPO and

the unequivocal headline: "Slowpoke federal appeals court puts 2024 election in jeopardy"

Methinks they are trying to SHAME the court into action!

[gab13by13]

2. Kentuck, no one knows for sure,

but my guess is that the Appeals court delay stems from judge Henderson. In her other opinions she has emphasized protecting the presidency.

The courts are capable of expediting decisions, the Supreme Court took 4 days to rule on Bush v Gore.

52 fucking days to decide if a president can legally murder anyone he wants to is beyond the pale. No, maybe the delay is over how the stay is treated. Will the Appeals court give Trump a time limit to appeal to the Supreme Court after which the stay is lifted, or the gods forbid, the court sends the issue back to the district court for clarifications, if that happens Smith can shit can the J6 trial until after the election.

Time Matters. If Trump is convicted, he loses the election.

[jimfields33]

5. I'm sorry but the DC court does not need to be

unanimous. Most judgements are not. So what if it’s 2-1. Stupid to hold things up for that reason.

[kentuck]

7. It would look political if the decision was 2-1...

Since the other two judges were appointed by Biden.

They would prefer a unanimous decision, I am sure.

[jimfields33]

8. So what. A few screaming days from trump.

That’s routine. If the case isn’t supposed to be political then they should vote and release results.

[kentuck]

9. They may decide to do just that...

If they cannot reach a compromise with the Republican Judge.

[jimfields33]

40. They don't need one.

Let’s hope it’s only one. I know many are saying this, but has their been proof of any of this?

[sop]

42. The Supreme Court ruled 5-4 on Bush v. Gore.

Everyone knew it was "political" given the makeup of the court. Democrats complained bitterly, but Al Gore graciously accepted the ruling and conceded. Gore didn't call for blood in the streets or an insurrection.

Every court ruling these days "looks political," it depends on whose ox is being gored. Problem is, Democrats accept court decisions that don't go their way, but Republicans seldom do. They call for violence in response. The courts take this into consideration when deciding controversial cases.

[MOMFUDSKI]

14. Time does matter.

Garland was asleep. 💤

[kentuck]

16. In my opinion, Garland was waiting on the J6 Committee to finish its job...

Because it was necessary for the people to understand what happened and the Committee was the best way to do that. He did not want to step on their investigation. Whether or not that was the right thing to do, I do not know.

[gab13by13]

18. That wasn't how DOJ operated in the past.

DOJ always wanted to take the lead in investigations. Why it allowed the J6 committee to take the lead points back to one person.

[spooky3]

30. And on several occasions Schiff and maybe others

said during interviews that DOJ needed to act. It was clear from his words and tone that he was pissed.

[Ponietz]

41. DOJ or the FBI?

The FBI was, is, and will be (3 more years) compromised until Wray is gone. Dirty cops know umpteen ways to muck a case up.

[kentuck]

53. In my opinion, they thought it was different from anything in the past...

And that the public needed to be educated on what happened before they charged a former president with any crime.

Whether or not that was necessary may be taking a devil's advocate position?

[Hotler]

4. "Would the Judiciary put politics over justice?" Maybe, envelopes stuffed with cash passing hands in a

dimly lit parking garage can buy a lot these days. If you can buy kids to touch, you can buy a judge.

[twodogsbarking]

6. Not sure that the justice system always works but we've always done it this way.

The most dooming words in most situations. "We've always done it this way".

[gab13by13]

10. Then why was Roe overturned?

[twodogsbarking]

12. Flawed system.

[gab13by13]

20. ...or flawed people in the system?

[twodogsbarking]

21. Both

[MOMFUDSKI]

34. Because they effing felt like it. And

they COULD. And religion. And power. And And

[OMGWTF]

45. Because they lied about it during their confirmation hearings.

[TheKentuckian]

59. Tough to attribute that as a root cause.

Surely no reasoning person believed the lies, that would have been well past naive and just straight onto weapons grade stupidity.

If they had told the truth they were still going to be ramrodded right where they are, even if Susan Collins had to do without her transparent ass fig leaf.

[dalton99a]

13. It's the same justice system that gives cops immunity

and a free vacation when they shoot people for fun

[Emile]

17. We have republican justice, innocent until proven broke

unless you are a Democrat.

[onecaliberal]

19. I've been saying it from the start. Garland failed democracy.

On so many levels.

[gab13by13]

24. His pyramid strategy was an excuse

to not investigate Trump. I do not for the life of me understand why so many people think it is inconsequential that Garland monitored 11 Federalist Society events? Then we have an FBI Director who is a member of the Federalist Society, who committed perjury when he lied to Congress about the intelligence leading up to J6. Then his people go to search Mar-el-Loco and fail to look in closets that are locked.

Garland and Wray have both done piss poor jobs.

[onecaliberal]

39. I knew when there was no investigation at the start, of the planners and plotters that there would never be.

The patriarchy has failed us, not one ounce of intestinal fortitude in the lot. I’d get out of here if I could.

[Scrivener7]

51. Ugh. The effing "pyramid strategy." What idiocy.

[Sky Jewels]

22. Two words: Merrick Garland

I can't say much more, as I've been warned, even though he is not an elected Democratic official.

[gab13by13]

28. Garland is an Independent.

OK, President Biden nominated Garland, President Obama nominated Garland.

When Trump fired Comey, Mike Lee asked Trump to replace him with Garland.
20 Senate Magats voted to confirm Garland.

Apparently people on both sides like him.

[Emile]

29. According to Google he is Independent, not Democrat

[Sky Jewels]

58. Right. And not elected.

And yet we aren't allowed to criticize his actions (or, more accurately, lack of action) much.

[Emile]

64. I have never seen his name on any ballot.

[MOMFUDSKI]

35. Someone may have to take down this

entire post. Or not

[Sky Jewels]

57. Why?

[AncientOfDays]

23. Delay is tRump tactic

Last edited Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:43 PM - Edit history (1)

The prosecutor that won the case on tRump University wrote article on tRump's tactics - it's delay and intimidate, etc.


Here's a link - good read:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/i-prosecuted-donald-trump-and-won-heres-how-its-done

tRump's tactics are basically war/battle tactics.

[lees1975]

25. I'm right there with you.

When Congress was investigating and turning out all of the facts about January 6th, that's when the Justice department should have moved. The delay, to which Garland has admitted, has put us where we are and once again, the American people are going to have to come forward and defend their Democracy. The lack of education when it comes to Democracy and American government in this country is appalling, and is an inexcusable failure of our tax supported educational system. No one should be allowed to graduate from high school without having a basic working knowledge of a Constitutional Democracy's workings, the importance of casting ballots and how our political system works.

So, we now must marshall all of the possible resources that we can, do everything we can to get Biden re-elected, and Democrats in the majority in both houses. It's crucial to our survival. As the world appears headed toward World War 3, we need a leader who isn't an insane, childish, spoiled criminal lawbreaking fathead.

[ShazzieB]

46. Question

"The delay, to which Garland has admitted, has put us where we are..."

Do you have a source for this that you could share, or any additional details? I'd really like to know more about this. It's new information to me, and I would like to be as fully informed as possible.

Disclaimer: I've defended Garland a few times in the past, on the basis that we have no way of knowing exactly what goes on behind the scenes at the DOJ. I still think that's largely true, but I want to be sure I have all the available facts. Thanks!

[MayReasonRule]

26. Theocratic Fascists Adjudicate Via Intimidation Incarceration And Extermination

The portion of the judiciary you're referencing is solely GOP.

The GOP is wholly fascist through and through.

Each of their fascist adjudication's no longer strive to remain in the shadow of legitimate governance though our Constitutional Democratic Republic.
Not at all, now they lay out their depravity for all to view portraying their crimes against humanity as justice and love.

Here's to reason's rule...

[Sneederbunk]

27. Bleak House

[jaxexpat]

31. The US judiciary does not see its primary mission as a mandate to protect citizens' rights under the constitution.

I think judges see their mission, generally and specifically those Republican appointees seated to more powerful judgeships, as a bulwark against the lower classes to prevent their hindering efforts from the established, wealth holding class to rule with impunity. In this capacity they serve the interests of those who are the enemies of democracy. They always have. To that end they will twist and delay justice under the law as far as it can be twisted and delayed. There will be no judgement against Trump's positions from the nation's highest courts, certainly none which would ensure his electoral defeat.*

The next election needs to be seen as the last chance we'll ever have to "Mend America's Grift in Time" (MAGIT*). It will require a legitimate Democratic landslide style mandate. Because it takes monstrous majorities to line all the corrupt judges and prosecutors, impeach, convict and remove them all. From the USSC down to the state district level, clean house. From the statehouses and county courthouses to the city halls of every city, incite the public to support removing politically motivated and corrupt government/taxpayer employed attorneys. They want original interpretation, they'll get it. How's "eye for an eye"? Sound familiar? Too Old Testamenty? Tell that to the jackbooted geniuses bashing on your door at 2:00 AM wanting to talk politics.

* I really hope I'm wrong about that
* MAGIT is MY acronym and I'm copywriting it, dammit! Okay ....then.....uh.....just think of me when you're using it in a conversation or something.

[gab13by13]

38. A convicted Trump can still be elected president but envision this,

Trump forced to sit in a courtroom, 6-7 hours a day, for 2 or 3 months, muzzled. It will do him in mentally and physically.

Polls are saying that if Trump is convicted that 23% of republicans will not vote for him.

My statement that a convicted Trump loses the election is just common sense.

[jaxexpat]

61. He must be convicted for something with gravitas prior to election day or it'll be settled by propaganda machine.

The congress needs to be Democrat owned beyond compromise territory. That's at stake as much as or maybe even more than the presidency. There are some really no-account SOBs in the GOP senate and house. They are a news/photo-op hounding nuisance to government sanity and can make a good session seem like a hellscape, especially after Fox and fiends plows their crap into it. They need to be not-so-humanely captured and released in the middle of a very hot, dry desert for a week or two or some mostly isolated spot in a reservation in N. Dakota or Montana, dependent on the good graces and generosity of the tribes for help, I'd settle for the middle-ish of one of the great oceans.

In order to ensure that, GOP voters need to be very disheartened, so beat-up that they won't even come to the polls. The ever-cherished coat-tail effect could disappoint Democrats if Trumps dimwits accompany the regular GOP high turnout. They might just come to vote some down ticket GOP clowns into office and even if Trump is soundly defeated, they could still maintain and maybe gain some iffy congressional seats.

[kentuck]

63. A conviction would create chaos within the Republican and MAGA ranks...

Would that be a bad thing?

[jaxexpat]

65. Not bad thing, good thing. Serious question?

[multigraincracker]

32. In this country there is no justice.

There is just us.

[COL Mustard]

33. If they won't do the job, then

We The People will have to do it, at the ballot box. If we want to save our country, we’re the ones who will have to do it

[et tu]

47. col. mustard

at the ballot box for the win! got the clue!!!
gotv~

[Prairie_Seagull]

36. Tfg is an 'outliar'.

Draw your own conclusions.

[COL Mustard]

50. He is, but he's the outlier

Who must be defeated in the moment we're in.

[Prairie_Seagull]

54. Hi COL, I was trying to be pointedly humorous

'Outliar" as in 'out liar'. My dad always said, if you have to explain your jokes they are just not funny and I suppose this one isn't when we think about it.

My hope with this comment was that folks would see that the Justice Dept in its (overly cautious) way would see some, possibly even need for some wiggle room relative to timing.

IMO

[COL Mustard]

66. Prairie, it's not you, it's me.

I'm pointedly obtuse sometimes and wordplay, while often amusing, sometimes goes right over my head!

[Elessar Zappa]

37. As long as we don't let him get in office next November,

he’ll face justice. He can’t delay forever.

[MiHale]

43. Never happen..the King of Delay broke the system...

FUBAR.
The only ‘justice’ we’ll see is trumps decline into insanity.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

44. The history of this episode in Democracy is far from complete

Too early to write it.

[Kablooie]

48. They did in 2000.

The justice system rushed to install the presidential loser as president.

[Emile]

49. Keeping the SOB out of office is not enough. I

want the fucking traitor locked up in a federal prison.

[panfluteman]

52. "Let the Voters Decide." Is This Conflating Justice with Politics?

And could this conflation of justice with politics just be an elaborate way of sweeping the whole justice issue under the rug? Or, could this conflation of justice with politics be a big karmic boomerang that will come back to bite us in the butt sooner or later? Wouldn't this conflation of justice with politics be playing right into the hands of Donald Trump, who has always claimed the the "witch hunt" against him was politically motivated? I lack sufficient powers of prophecy and foresight to tell exactly how all this will play out for us as a nation, ultimately.

I know that there is a certain beauty in the whole thing of "let the voters decide" - in other words, if the American people soundly reject Trumpian fascism, or fascism in general, at the ballot box, our nation will have soundly rejected fascism. But is this really true, and will this be the way that history will see it? There's the potential for a lot of "slippery slope" issues here...

[onecaliberal]

60. The voters already decided in 2020.

[RockRaven]

55. Even if every individual decision and delay can be defended or justified,

the totality of all such decisions and delays has generated totally unacceptable results. The US justice system is a sick joke, which among other things makes the US appears feckless and hypocritical on the global stage.

[bluestarone]

67. Your right on the money here.

WE are finding out that our judges CANNOT make decisions without politics involved. Rule of law has come down to who they favor for their beliefs vs how our laws are. BIG trouble ahead in this country. It's so divided now, that even if TFG DIED tomorrow, this country couldn't come together. Judges are willing to let this country self destruct, and that's SAD.

[republianmushroom]

56. Very well said. Thank you.

And , Yes, the Judiciary would put politics over justice, and they have for trump.

[GreenWave]

62. Simply by saying "We agree with the 14th amendment and no changes are necessary" the SCOTUS

could put an end to this nightmare and then the trials can take their due time for disqualified Orange Menace.