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senseandsensibility

(20,256 posts)
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 02:06 PM Feb 2024

Neal Katyal and Andrew Weissman officially at the "freak out" stage

Both of these distinguished lawyers who obviously are more knowledgeable than the posters on DU who assure us that everything is fine and this is the way it always is, think it is a major problem that the Jan. 6 DC trial is being delayed because of the 3 judge panel's slow walking their decision.

Freak out stage. That's a direct quote from Neal and Andrew said he "violently" agrees. Both were on MSNBC this morning.

We need to raise our voices, folks. Things are getting real.

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Neal Katyal and Andrew Weissman officially at the "freak out" stage (Original Post) senseandsensibility Feb 2024 OP
I remember when unskewing polls was considered ridiculous asleepto Feb 2024 #1
Could you expand a little on this? senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #3
Another bought and paid for judge? Of course she is chicoescuela Feb 2024 #2
Of course she is absolutely not gab13by13 Feb 2024 #4
I think the poster is referring to Henderson senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #5
Yup, I revised my post. gab13by13 Feb 2024 #7
Yes i am. Wasn't referring to Chutkan chicoescuela Feb 2024 #10
Really, I figured it was Cannon . flying_wahini Feb 2024 #33
She is working to please Trump. DOJ should have pushed for her recusal months ago. My vast experience tells me.... usaf-vet Feb 2024 #36
Neal and Weissmann gab13by13 Feb 2024 #6
I trust their opinions on legal matters senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #8
So do I, gab13by13 Feb 2024 #14
I don't know Garland's reasoning, but this court of appeals delay is JohnSJ Feb 2024 #54
Wheeler is a curious choice indeed, especially as some who use her as a bible often have attacked others (on a wide Celerity Feb 2024 #11
Who brought up Marcy Wheeler on this thread? MorbidButterflyTat Feb 2024 #45
the poster I replied to Celerity Feb 2024 #50
I think there's a lot of judicial pieces thinking 20 moves ahead bucolic_frolic Feb 2024 #9
20 moves ahead is the election gab13by13 Feb 2024 #15
Exactly senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #23
They are throwing a TON of BS and crap at the wall and seeing what sticks DENVERPOPS Feb 2024 #32
Josef Goebbels markodochartaigh Feb 2024 #59
Thx Marko............!!!!! NC DENVERPOPS Feb 2024 #79
freaking out is not going to change anything except the freakers. nt BootinUp Feb 2024 #12
In a reasonable system, it wouldn't take this long to decide a president is not a king. Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2024 #13
I am guessing that the debate is over how they treat the stay, gab13by13 Feb 2024 #18
Here is the latest from Glenn Kirschner on this (video) Quixote1818 Feb 2024 #16
A nice (needed) tranquilizer of a show from Glenn! Thank you for posting! PTL_Mancuso Feb 2024 #24
Watched it. cilla4progress Feb 2024 #27
Thanks for this... I'll have to watch it later liberalla Feb 2024 #31
Sadly, with all the recent revelations re Clarence Thomas, we know some judges are bribe-able Attilatheblond Feb 2024 #17
Save time, just dig into judge Henderson, gab13by13 Feb 2024 #19
Hey Rachel we need you. triron Feb 2024 #20
C'mon, what do they know?? We've been assured repeatedly lostnfound Feb 2024 #21
Lol senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #22
Why freak out over something you have no control over? Kaleva Feb 2024 #26
You say that like freaking out is a choice Silent3 Feb 2024 #46
Freaking out is a choice Kaleva Feb 2024 #53
"You seem to have chosen freeze" Silent3 Feb 2024 #55
I get what you are saying senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #56
You freaking out Kaleva Feb 2024 #72
Yes, I'm sure you have cameras on me right now, observing me jumping up and down with my hair on fire Silent3 Feb 2024 #75
Agree. MorbidButterflyTat Feb 2024 #63
Looks like a guy who is confident of the future Kaleva Feb 2024 #71
I mean...can the corruption extend that far? cilla4progress Feb 2024 #25
I agree. There is something very wrong going on here. The issue at stake is that no one is JohnSJ Feb 2024 #28
Wrong is the right word senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #52
Andrew Weissman pointed out the other day that the justice system has held. PortTack Feb 2024 #69
Well let's not look political. republianmushroom Feb 2024 #29
Yep. We have to let criminals go free so we don't look political. Irish_Dem Feb 2024 #51
Agree republianmushroom Feb 2024 #65
IKR? The decision to "not look political" is indeed a very political one. Beartracks Feb 2024 #62
Yup republianmushroom Feb 2024 #64
Trying not to look political is a fools' errand senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #70
What do we do ? Beachnutt Feb 2024 #30
Please keep in mind that this reply is not aimed at you personally senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #34
I totally agree and will join in Beachnutt Feb 2024 #35
Me too senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #38
The problem is no one seems to know what to do. If you have a plan, please, LEAD! nt Trueblue Texan Feb 2024 #43
The only thing we can do is GOTV, make sure Biden wins and hope the legal system finally does its job. sop Feb 2024 #41
The DOJ is really at fault BlueNIndiana Feb 2024 #37
We (Dems) are always expected to be above the fray senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #39
So true... Blue Idaho Feb 2024 #60
"We need to raise our voices, folks" TwilightZone Feb 2024 #40
That scares me to death! nt Trueblue Texan Feb 2024 #42
Big mistake moonbeam23 Feb 2024 #44
Here's the snippet: scipan Feb 2024 #47
Thanks for that senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #49
"I'm at the freak out stage" MorbidButterflyTat Feb 2024 #66
K&R spanone Feb 2024 #48
Who are you raising your voice to? brooklynite Feb 2024 #57
Well I heard that MorbidButterflyTat Feb 2024 #68
So none of the cases will make it before the election mucifer Feb 2024 #58
Katyal and Weissman did not say that senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #61
Warning? MorbidButterflyTat Feb 2024 #67
I found video of this. ShazzieB Feb 2024 #73
I agree with Katyal and Weissman LetMyPeopleVote Feb 2024 #74
Dying to hear what they'll say when the ruling comes out against Trump bigtree Feb 2024 #76
Here's the video for those who missed it: 'Freak out stage': Weissmann and Katyal sound off on Trump immunity delay Rhiannon12866 Feb 2024 #77
I will not stop worrying until I have been dead 6 months. BigmanPigman Feb 2024 #78
oh well MistakenLamb Feb 2024 #80
Good reminder! senseandsensibility Feb 2024 #81
 

asleepto

(12 posts)
1. I remember when unskewing polls was considered ridiculous
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 02:08 PM
Feb 2024

It isn’t anymore.
The poll unskewers are bipartisan now.

gab13by13

(24,588 posts)
4. Of course she is absolutely not
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 02:17 PM
Feb 2024

Judge Chutkan has been doing everything she can to get Trump to trial. Her hands are tied until the question of immunity gats resolved. 53 days to decide whether Trump has the right to murder people.

Unless you mean judge Henderson then maybe yeah, it looks that way. Sorry I was slow to catch on.

senseandsensibility

(20,256 posts)
5. I think the poster is referring to Henderson
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 02:19 PM
Feb 2024

Judge Chutkan has shown at every opportunity that she wants to move things along.

usaf-vet

(6,783 posts)
36. She is working to please Trump. DOJ should have pushed for her recusal months ago. My vast experience tells me....
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 04:13 PM
Feb 2024

..... so. High School Civics class in 1966. Back when they taught civics because they wanted educated citizens.

Now, the dumber you are, the more likely you are to believe conspiracy theories and open your wallet to the grifters.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

gab13by13

(24,588 posts)
6. Neal and Weissmann
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 02:19 PM
Feb 2024

are also on the record that Garland took too long to investigate Trump.

Maybe Neal and Andrew should go to EmptyWheel and Marcy will calm their nerves?

senseandsensibility

(20,256 posts)
8. I trust their opinions on legal matters
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 02:24 PM
Feb 2024

more than random people on the internet. These are not lightweights.

gab13by13

(24,588 posts)
14. So do I,
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:07 PM
Feb 2024

guess I forgot the sarcasm thingy.

There are some who quote her religiously to prove that Garland did not delay in investigating Trump.

JohnSJ

(95,853 posts)
54. I don't know Garland's reasoning, but this court of appeals delay is
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 05:46 PM
Feb 2024

beyond January 6th, it asks the simple question that no one should be above the law, and if they cannot answer that question, then the country is not a democracy.

bucolic_frolic

(46,512 posts)
9. I think there's a lot of judicial pieces thinking 20 moves ahead
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 02:38 PM
Feb 2024

This is a time for thorough legal research and not free-form new interpretations. I wonder if there's not already cross-talk with SCOTUS members.

gab13by13

(24,588 posts)
15. 20 moves ahead is the election
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:09 PM
Feb 2024

10 moves ahead is close to the election and Smith gets shut down.

Time Matters.

DENVERPOPS

(9,850 posts)
32. They are throwing a TON of BS and crap at the wall and seeing what sticks
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:45 PM
Feb 2024

A well organized effort to stall everything until it goes away or people tire of reading about it.

Back to Hitler's Henchman: "Say it enough times and it becomes truth in peoples minds"

(I can't remember his name?)

markodochartaigh

(1,895 posts)
59. Josef Goebbels
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 06:08 PM
Feb 2024

And "throwing a ton of bs against the wall to see what sticks" is from Sir Francis Bacon, audacter calumniare, semper aliquid haeret (slander boldly, something always sticks).

It strikes me that the whole reich-wing bubble is built on coordinated lies by politicians, business and religious figures all to build an alternate reality. Especially with authoritarian followers this is incredibly effective.





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

gab13by13

(24,588 posts)
18. I am guessing that the debate is over how they treat the stay,
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:17 PM
Feb 2024

No way they will allow a president to murder people.

They could give Trump 1 week to appeal to the Supreme Court after which the stay is removed. = good news.
They could send the appeal back to the district court with questions, = very bad news, moocho delay.
They could rule and say nothing about the stay which I assume will lift it? Trump then could appeal to the court en banc, more delay.
After en banc Trump can still appeal to the Supreme Court.

This decision is all about how the stay is treated, it takes 2 months just to assemble a jury.

 

PTL_Mancuso

(276 posts)
24. A nice (needed) tranquilizer of a show from Glenn! Thank you for posting!
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:35 PM
Feb 2024

Just wish the SCOTUS wasn't so corrupt. They can be more than a bit of a juggernaut in all this.

cilla4progress

(25,622 posts)
27. Watched it.
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:39 PM
Feb 2024

He seemed a little different to me in this video. More restrained. I don't think he's really that accepting of the delay, or looking on the up side. I think he knows the impact his words have, and doesn't want to panic us.

Just my 2 cents.

Attilatheblond

(4,090 posts)
17. Sadly, with all the recent revelations re Clarence Thomas, we know some judges are bribe-able
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:09 PM
Feb 2024

Time for real journalist to start digging on that three judge panel. Like NOW

gab13by13

(24,588 posts)
19. Save time, just dig into judge Henderson,
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:18 PM
Feb 2024

In some of her other decisions she has protected the office of the president.

lostnfound

(16,536 posts)
21. C'mon, what do they know?? We've been assured repeatedly
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:28 PM
Feb 2024

not to worry our pretty little heads about the time it takes for justice to be done.

What matters is a slow, deliberate process, not the timing of when it gets completed.

So they convinced me it’s okay to go back to sleep now.

senseandsensibility

(20,256 posts)
22. Lol
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:32 PM
Feb 2024

Well I get your sarcasm at least. But it's past the funny stage to me. It sounds like it is to you as well, but it's still depressing as heck.

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
46. You say that like freaking out is a choice
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 04:50 PM
Feb 2024

The feeling of freaking out is BECAUSE you can't control what's happening. It's the feeling you get when you see something terrible coming your way and are powerless to stop it.

Kaleva

(37,904 posts)
53. Freaking out is a choice
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 05:44 PM
Feb 2024

You may be unable to stop it but what are you doing to prepare for it?

Animals have 3 instinctive reactions to a very stressful situation. Fight, flight or freeze. You seem to have chosen freeze. My suggestion is to choose instead flight or fight and work towards preparing for whichever one you pick . Be proactive. People who are prepared face situations with much greater confidence then those who don't.

senseandsensibility

(20,256 posts)
56. I get what you are saying
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 05:56 PM
Feb 2024

Freaking out is not freezing. It is part of a process that has to be experienced before the correct action is taken. Not all situations require feaking out of course, but in this case, the freaking out is representative of the seriousness of the situation. I happen to think that the more people who are freaking out and expressing it the better. There IS strength in numbers.

Kaleva

(37,904 posts)
72. You freaking out
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 08:18 PM
Feb 2024

Prepared people with a plan don't "freak out".

I was in the military for many years and afterwards I was a volunteer never of a local fire department. In both cases, I underwent extensive training so that when the SHTF, I didn't freak out. I would respond as I trained to do.

Well trained people handle situations much better then untrained people do. Im pretty sure you'll agree with me on that. Trained and prepared people also face crisis's with much greater confidence then unprepared people do. This is another fact I think you will agree with me on.

I sleep easy every night because I have a plan and I work on that plan every day. Modifying it as needed when new info becomes available. I plan to win. And even if I don't, I know that I will have given it my best shot.

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
75. Yes, I'm sure you have cameras on me right now, observing me jumping up and down with my hair on fire
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 10:16 PM
Feb 2024

I used the phrase "freaking out" because that's the phrase being bandied about here, and it's clearly being used figuratively.

MorbidButterflyTat

(2,612 posts)
63. Agree.
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 06:58 PM
Feb 2024


By the bye... it doesn't look to me like Andrew is freaking out now, as he's currently gushing over his new room rater.




cilla4progress

(25,622 posts)
25. I mean...can the corruption extend that far?
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:37 PM
Feb 2024

Or is it cowardice?

Hard to see it any other way. And if Neal and Andrew are saying it..

SMDH.

JohnSJ

(95,853 posts)
28. I agree. There is something very wrong going on here. The issue at stake is that no one is
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:41 PM
Feb 2024

above the law, including the President.

Our entire democracy depends on this, and they cannot think of valid arguments why ultimate immunity for someone who tried to overthrow the U.S. should NOT be allowed?

senseandsensibility

(20,256 posts)
52. Wrong is the right word
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 05:35 PM
Feb 2024

It hasn't smelled right for a long time, but as the election nears it just becomes glaringly obvious that the judiciary is failing us.

PortTack

(34,363 posts)
69. Andrew Weissman pointed out the other day that the justice system has held.
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 07:40 PM
Feb 2024

No I do not have a link…too many post to dig thru. but I did hear him say it.

Irish_Dem

(55,825 posts)
51. Yep. We have to let criminals go free so we don't look political.
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 05:18 PM
Feb 2024

Trump and the GOP have the judiciary scared shitless.

Beartracks

(13,462 posts)
62. IKR? The decision to "not look political" is indeed a very political one.
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 06:50 PM
Feb 2024

Delaying valid legal processes so as to "not influence an election" only serves to (purposely) influence an election.

==============

senseandsensibility

(20,256 posts)
70. Trying not to look political is a fools' errand
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 08:02 PM
Feb 2024

when you are dealing with a politician and an election. Just follow the facts.

senseandsensibility

(20,256 posts)
34. Please keep in mind that this reply is not aimed at you personally
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:50 PM
Feb 2024

but I do find the lack of "fight" on our side troublesome. I would like to see demonstrations on a mass scale (civil disobedience) since our democracy is at stake. Is everyone waiting for someone else to do it? Is the corporate media's effort to normalize cheato working? It is very discouraging and one of the reasons I am so adamant about calling out the media. They are very influential and the stakes are extremely high.

Beachnutt

(8,014 posts)
35. I totally agree and will join in
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 03:55 PM
Feb 2024

at any protest within my area if that will help stop the criminal and the corrupt judges.

senseandsensibility

(20,256 posts)
38. Me too
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 04:14 PM
Feb 2024

my friend. I hope that Katyal and Weissman's warnings light a fire under activists. They can't actually call for protests but I think they are doing all they can to ring alarm bells.

sop

(11,078 posts)
41. The only thing we can do is GOTV, make sure Biden wins and hope the legal system finally does its job.
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 04:19 PM
Feb 2024

If Trump wins all the legal arguments won't matter; he'll have immunity and four more years to completely wreck the country.

 

BlueNIndiana

(94 posts)
37. The DOJ is really at fault
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 04:14 PM
Feb 2024

DOJ slow walked this case (did not really want to do it) so it would be able to be done before the 2024 election. I bet of Biden does win the case will be dropped caus the DOJ and the courst do not want to rule on Presidential Limits of power and immunity.

Blue Idaho

(5,491 posts)
60. So true...
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 06:10 PM
Feb 2024

Our DOJ and its fearless leader were forced into action after being humiliated by House and Senate democrats. It is very likely they have destroyed our democracy by sitting on their hands.

moonbeam23

(337 posts)
44. Big mistake
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 04:46 PM
Feb 2024

to let the NY case go first instead of the DC case. The NY case is like a jaywalking ticket compared to the rest of them, and he will make a bigly tantrum about how he is being prosecuted for no reason.

That is a fairly easy sell to the general public who is not paying much attention.

It is IMPERATIVE that he be convicted on at least one important count before the election, and all the other cases should get out of the way and let the simplest and most important case go first.

Why or why is that three judge panel dragging their feet????

Just my .02

 

brooklynite

(96,882 posts)
57. Who are you raising your voice to?
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 06:02 PM
Feb 2024

DO you imagine Judges will speed up their legal decisions to make the blogosphere happy?

MorbidButterflyTat

(2,612 posts)
68. Well I heard that
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 07:37 PM
Feb 2024

Cassidy Hutchinson "shamed" the DOJ into investigating and indicting, because that's a thing.

MorbidButterflyTat

(2,612 posts)
67. Warning?
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 07:33 PM
Feb 2024

It's fear mongering.

Did Neal suggest what actions Americans should take? I mean he must have suggestions.

ShazzieB

(18,404 posts)
73. I found video of this.
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 08:36 PM
Feb 2024

I wanted to know exactly what they said, so I went digging and found this clip from Inside with Jen Psaki.

?si=-Rsfje4C-rUTqfAZ

bigtree

(89,635 posts)
76. Dying to hear what they'll say when the ruling comes out against Trump
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 11:04 PM
Feb 2024

...more time taken doesn't indicate anything, and they should know better than suggesting it with that silly 'freak out' nonsense they did for Jen.

Goddamnit, I expect serious lawyers to act with professionalism and stick to facts, not feelings that gaslight people from paid spots on tv.

And how many times is this for Weissman? People should have had it with him with all of the crying he's done before, and improbably, AFTER the two historic federal felony indictments of the former president.

Does he really think judges are taking heed of his freak out, or is this just for our edification?

Rhiannon12866

(220,253 posts)
77. Here's the video for those who missed it: 'Freak out stage': Weissmann and Katyal sound off on Trump immunity delay
Sun Feb 4, 2024, 11:27 PM
Feb 2024
'Freak out stage': Weissmann and Katyal sound off on Trump immunity delay - Inside w/Jen Psaki - MSNBC
https://www.democraticunderground.com/13219294

BigmanPigman

(52,147 posts)
78. I will not stop worrying until I have been dead 6 months.
Mon Feb 5, 2024, 01:30 AM
Feb 2024

One thing I know for sure...

1. Americans are dumber than dirt and have the memory of a gnat and never learns.

2. The GQP will NEVER stop lying, cheating and stealing, EVER! It is the only way they can ever win and they know it.

3. I do not trust anyone telling me to "not worry about Nov".

4. History repeats itself.

5. Social media, Putin, dark money, Fux Ruse, right wing radio, etc is not the same as 2016, it is much worse.

I hope tRump tells everyone he wants to make abortion illegal nationwide. That is how we will get the vote out.

We need a huge Womens March before the election, NOT the day after he is inaugurated like in 2017.

MistakenLamb

(780 posts)
80. oh well
Mon Feb 5, 2024, 01:27 PM
Feb 2024

looks like we will have to defeat Trump the old fashioned way with voting.

Doom gloom or screech wrongly at Merrick Garland all you want that won’t do anything if you don’t vote, donate or volunteer

senseandsensibility

(20,256 posts)
81. Good reminder!
Mon Feb 5, 2024, 02:36 PM
Feb 2024

Seriously, that is what it will boil down to. However, I do hope for some really good messaging from our side soon considering all the material we have to work with.

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