Neal Katyal and Andrew Weissman officially at the "freak out" stage

[senseandsensibility]

Both of these distinguished lawyers who obviously are more knowledgeable than the posters on DU who assure us that everything is fine and this is the way it always is, think it is a major problem that the Jan. 6 DC trial is being delayed because of the 3 judge panel's slow walking their decision.

Freak out stage. That's a direct quote from Neal and Andrew said he "violently" agrees. Both were on MSNBC this morning.

We need to raise our voices, folks. Things are getting real.

[asleepto]

1. I remember when unskewing polls was considered ridiculous

It isn’t anymore.
The poll unskewers are bipartisan now.

[senseandsensibility]

3. Could you expand a little on this?

Polling is not really my area of expertise to put it mildly.

[chicoescuela]

2. Another bought and paid for judge? Of course she is

[gab13by13]

4. Of course she is absolutely not

Judge Chutkan has been doing everything she can to get Trump to trial. Her hands are tied until the question of immunity gats resolved. 53 days to decide whether Trump has the right to murder people.

Unless you mean judge Henderson then maybe yeah, it looks that way. Sorry I was slow to catch on.

[senseandsensibility]

5. I think the poster is referring to Henderson

Judge Chutkan has shown at every opportunity that she wants to move things along.

[gab13by13]

7. Yup, I revised my post.

[chicoescuela]

10. Yes i am. Wasn't referring to Chutkan

[flying_wahini]

33. Really, I figured it was Cannon .

[usaf-vet]

36. She is working to please Trump. DOJ should have pushed for her recusal months ago. My vast experience tells me....

..... so. High School Civics class in 1966. Back when they taught civics because they wanted educated citizens.

Now, the dumber you are, the more likely you are to believe conspiracy theories and open your wallet to the grifters.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[gab13by13]

6. Neal and Weissmann

are also on the record that Garland took too long to investigate Trump.

Maybe Neal and Andrew should go to EmptyWheel and Marcy will calm their nerves?

[senseandsensibility]

8. I trust their opinions on legal matters

more than random people on the internet. These are not lightweights.

[gab13by13]

14. So do I,

guess I forgot the sarcasm thingy.

There are some who quote her religiously to prove that Garland did not delay in investigating Trump.

[JohnSJ]

54. I don't know Garland's reasoning, but this court of appeals delay is

beyond January 6th, it asks the simple question that no one should be above the law, and if they cannot answer that question, then the country is not a democracy.

[Celerity]

11. Wheeler is a curious choice indeed, especially as some who use her as a bible often have attacked others (on a wide

variety of issues) for years using past associations to discredit things they do not like.


Wheeler has been a libertarian darling for ages and often went after Obama hard.




https://libertarianinstitute.org/author/marcy-wheeler/

https://theintercept.com/staff/marcy-wheeler/



https://newrepublic.com/article/135933/limits-obamas-drone-war-really



https://scotthorton.org/



https://www.antiwar.com/blog/author/marcy_wheeler/



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/16/obama-nsa-review-group-whitewash

[MorbidButterflyTat]

45. Who brought up Marcy Wheeler on this thread?

[Celerity]

50. the poster I replied to

[bucolic_frolic]

9. I think there's a lot of judicial pieces thinking 20 moves ahead

This is a time for thorough legal research and not free-form new interpretations. I wonder if there's not already cross-talk with SCOTUS members.

[gab13by13]

15. 20 moves ahead is the election

10 moves ahead is close to the election and Smith gets shut down.

Time Matters.

[senseandsensibility]

23. Exactly

And as many have pointed out,, the judicial system can move quickly when it wants to.

[DENVERPOPS]

32. They are throwing a TON of BS and crap at the wall and seeing what sticks

A well organized effort to stall everything until it goes away or people tire of reading about it.

Back to Hitler's Henchman: "Say it enough times and it becomes truth in peoples minds"

(I can't remember his name?)

[markodochartaigh]

59. Josef Goebbels

And "throwing a ton of bs against the wall to see what sticks" is from Sir Francis Bacon, audacter calumniare, semper aliquid haeret (slander boldly, something always sticks).

It strikes me that the whole reich-wing bubble is built on coordinated lies by politicians, business and religious figures all to build an alternate reality. Especially with authoritarian followers this is incredibly effective.





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

[DENVERPOPS]

79. Thx Marko............!!!!! NC

[BootinUp]

12. freaking out is not going to change anything except the freakers. nt

[Hermit-The-Prog]

13. In a reasonable system, it wouldn't take this long to decide a president is not a king.

[gab13by13]

18. I am guessing that the debate is over how they treat the stay,

No way they will allow a president to murder people.

They could give Trump 1 week to appeal to the Supreme Court after which the stay is removed. = good news.
They could send the appeal back to the district court with questions, = very bad news, moocho delay.
They could rule and say nothing about the stay which I assume will lift it? Trump then could appeal to the court en banc, more delay.
After en banc Trump can still appeal to the Supreme Court.

This decision is all about how the stay is treated, it takes 2 months just to assemble a jury.

[Quixote1818]

16. Here is the latest from Glenn Kirschner on this (video)

[PTL_Mancuso]

24. A nice (needed) tranquilizer of a show from Glenn! Thank you for posting!

Just wish the SCOTUS wasn't so corrupt. They can be more than a bit of a juggernaut in all this.

[cilla4progress]

27. Watched it.

He seemed a little different to me in this video. More restrained. I don't think he's really that accepting of the delay, or looking on the up side. I think he knows the impact his words have, and doesn't want to panic us.

Just my 2 cents.

[liberalla]

31. Thanks for this... I'll have to watch it later

Bookmarking

[Attilatheblond]

17. Sadly, with all the recent revelations re Clarence Thomas, we know some judges are bribe-able

Time for real journalist to start digging on that three judge panel. Like NOW

[gab13by13]

19. Save time, just dig into judge Henderson,

In some of her other decisions she has protected the office of the president.

[triron]

20. Hey Rachel we need you.

[lostnfound]

21. C'mon, what do they know?? We've been assured repeatedly

not to worry our pretty little heads about the time it takes for justice to be done.

What matters is a slow, deliberate process, not the timing of when it gets completed.

So they convinced me it’s okay to go back to sleep now.

[senseandsensibility]

22. Lol

Well I get your sarcasm at least. But it's past the funny stage to me. It sounds like it is to you as well, but it's still depressing as heck.

[Kaleva]

26. Why freak out over something you have no control over?

[Silent3]

46. You say that like freaking out is a choice

The feeling of freaking out is BECAUSE you can't control what's happening. It's the feeling you get when you see something terrible coming your way and are powerless to stop it.

[Kaleva]

53. Freaking out is a choice

You may be unable to stop it but what are you doing to prepare for it?

Animals have 3 instinctive reactions to a very stressful situation. Fight, flight or freeze. You seem to have chosen freeze. My suggestion is to choose instead flight or fight and work towards preparing for whichever one you pick . Be proactive. People who are prepared face situations with much greater confidence then those who don't.

[Silent3]

55. "You seem to have chosen freeze"

Your evidence of that being?

[senseandsensibility]

56. I get what you are saying

Freaking out is not freezing. It is part of a process that has to be experienced before the correct action is taken. Not all situations require feaking out of course, but in this case, the freaking out is representative of the seriousness of the situation. I happen to think that the more people who are freaking out and expressing it the better. There IS strength in numbers.

[Kaleva]

72. You freaking out

Prepared people with a plan don't "freak out".

I was in the military for many years and afterwards I was a volunteer never of a local fire department. In both cases, I underwent extensive training so that when the SHTF, I didn't freak out. I would respond as I trained to do.

Well trained people handle situations much better then untrained people do. Im pretty sure you'll agree with me on that. Trained and prepared people also face crisis's with much greater confidence then unprepared people do. This is another fact I think you will agree with me on.

I sleep easy every night because I have a plan and I work on that plan every day. Modifying it as needed when new info becomes available. I plan to win. And even if I don't, I know that I will have given it my best shot.

[Silent3]

75. Yes, I'm sure you have cameras on me right now, observing me jumping up and down with my hair on fire

I used the phrase "freaking out" because that's the phrase being bandied about here, and it's clearly being used figuratively.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

63. Agree.

By the bye... it doesn't look to me like Andrew is freaking out now, as he's currently gushing over his new room rater.

Link to tweet

[Kaleva]

71. Looks like a guy who is confident of the future

[cilla4progress]

25. I mean...can the corruption extend that far?

Or is it cowardice?

Hard to see it any other way. And if Neal and Andrew are saying it..

SMDH.

[JohnSJ]

28. I agree. There is something very wrong going on here. The issue at stake is that no one is

above the law, including the President.

Our entire democracy depends on this, and they cannot think of valid arguments why ultimate immunity for someone who tried to overthrow the U.S. should NOT be allowed?

[senseandsensibility]

52. Wrong is the right word

It hasn't smelled right for a long time, but as the election nears it just becomes glaringly obvious that the judiciary is failing us.

[PortTack]

69. Andrew Weissman pointed out the other day that the justice system has held.

No I do not have a link…too many post to dig thru. but I did hear him say it.

[republianmushroom]

29. Well let's not look political.

The new motto.

[Irish_Dem]

51. Yep. We have to let criminals go free so we don't look political.

Trump and the GOP have the judiciary scared shitless.

[republianmushroom]

65. Agree

[Beartracks]

62. IKR? The decision to "not look political" is indeed a very political one.

Delaying valid legal processes so as to "not influence an election" only serves to (purposely) influence an election.

==============

[republianmushroom]

64. Yup

[senseandsensibility]

70. Trying not to look political is a fools' errand

when you are dealing with a politician and an election. Just follow the facts.

[Beachnutt]

30. What do we do ?

Vote ?
Call my republican Senators ?
Seriously there is not much we can do is there ?

[senseandsensibility]

34. Please keep in mind that this reply is not aimed at you personally

but I do find the lack of "fight" on our side troublesome. I would like to see demonstrations on a mass scale (civil disobedience) since our democracy is at stake. Is everyone waiting for someone else to do it? Is the corporate media's effort to normalize cheato working? It is very discouraging and one of the reasons I am so adamant about calling out the media. They are very influential and the stakes are extremely high.

[Beachnutt]

35. I totally agree and will join in

at any protest within my area if that will help stop the criminal and the corrupt judges.

[senseandsensibility]

38. Me too

my friend. I hope that Katyal and Weissman's warnings light a fire under activists. They can't actually call for protests but I think they are doing all they can to ring alarm bells.

[Trueblue Texan]

43. The problem is no one seems to know what to do. If you have a plan, please, LEAD! nt

[sop]

41. The only thing we can do is GOTV, make sure Biden wins and hope the legal system finally does its job.

If Trump wins all the legal arguments won't matter; he'll have immunity and four more years to completely wreck the country.

[BlueNIndiana]

37. The DOJ is really at fault

DOJ slow walked this case (did not really want to do it) so it would be able to be done before the 2024 election. I bet of Biden does win the case will be dropped caus the DOJ and the courst do not want to rule on Presidential Limits of power and immunity.

[senseandsensibility]

39. We (Dems) are always expected to be above the fray

and usually we oblige.

[Blue Idaho]

60. So true...

Our DOJ and its fearless leader were forced into action after being humiliated by House and Senate democrats. It is very likely they have destroyed our democracy by sitting on their hands.

[TwilightZone]

40. "We need to raise our voices, folks"

Lead the way.

[Trueblue Texan]

42. That scares me to death! nt

[moonbeam23]

44. Big mistake

to let the NY case go first instead of the DC case. The NY case is like a jaywalking ticket compared to the rest of them, and he will make a bigly tantrum about how he is being prosecuted for no reason.

That is a fairly easy sell to the general public who is not paying much attention.

It is IMPERATIVE that he be convicted on at least one important count before the election, and all the other cases should get out of the way and let the simplest and most important case go first.

Why or why is that three judge panel dragging their feet????

Just my .02

[scipan]

47. Here's the snippet:

Link to tweet

?t=npDR9CWI9SnaEIXpLV39Zg&s=19

If they are freaking out, then I'm freaking out.

[senseandsensibility]

49. Thanks for that

Even the second time watching it it is very powerful.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

66. "I'm at the freak out stage"

All three LAUGH.

"This is normal pacing here." Jen Psaki.

Oh.

[spanone]

48. K&R

[brooklynite]

57. Who are you raising your voice to?

DO you imagine Judges will speed up their legal decisions to make the blogosphere happy?

[MorbidButterflyTat]

68. Well I heard that

Cassidy Hutchinson "shamed" the DOJ into investigating and indicting, because that's a thing.

[mucifer]

58. So none of the cases will make it before the election

[senseandsensibility]

61. Katyal and Weissman did not say that

I think they are warning that time is rapidly running out though.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

67. Warning?

It's fear mongering.

Did Neal suggest what actions Americans should take? I mean he must have suggestions.

[ShazzieB]

73. I found video of this.

I wanted to know exactly what they said, so I went digging and found this clip from Inside with Jen Psaki.

?si=-Rsfje4C-rUTqfAZ

[LetMyPeopleVote]

74. I agree with Katyal and Weissman

Link to tweet

[bigtree]

76. Dying to hear what they'll say when the ruling comes out against Trump

...more time taken doesn't indicate anything, and they should know better than suggesting it with that silly 'freak out' nonsense they did for Jen.

Goddamnit, I expect serious lawyers to act with professionalism and stick to facts, not feelings that gaslight people from paid spots on tv.

And how many times is this for Weissman? People should have had it with him with all of the crying he's done before, and improbably, AFTER the two historic federal felony indictments of the former president.

Does he really think judges are taking heed of his freak out, or is this just for our edification?

[Rhiannon12866]

77. Here's the video for those who missed it: 'Freak out stage': Weissmann and Katyal sound off on Trump immunity delay

'Freak out stage': Weissmann and Katyal sound off on Trump immunity delay - Inside w/Jen Psaki - MSNBC
https://www.democraticunderground.com/13219294

[BigmanPigman]

78. I will not stop worrying until I have been dead 6 months.

One thing I know for sure...

1. Americans are dumber than dirt and have the memory of a gnat and never learns.

2. The GQP will NEVER stop lying, cheating and stealing, EVER! It is the only way they can ever win and they know it.

3. I do not trust anyone telling me to "not worry about Nov".

4. History repeats itself.

5. Social media, Putin, dark money, Fux Ruse, right wing radio, etc is not the same as 2016, it is much worse.

I hope tRump tells everyone he wants to make abortion illegal nationwide. That is how we will get the vote out.

We need a huge Womens March before the election, NOT the day after he is inaugurated like in 2017.

[MistakenLamb]

80. oh well

looks like we will have to defeat Trump the old fashioned way with voting.

Doom gloom or screech wrongly at Merrick Garland all you want that won’t do anything if you don’t vote, donate or volunteer

[senseandsensibility]

81. Good reminder!

Seriously, that is what it will boil down to. However, I do hope for some really good messaging from our side soon considering all the material we have to work with.