If your 13 year old son stole a car...

[qwlauren35]

Baltimore has seen a dramatic uptick in car thefts, and it’s kids. 13-16 years old. Car theft is not a violent crime. You could say that it’s just a hassle for the owner. But that’s not everyone’s reality. For some, loss of a car is lost work time. For some who only have liability insurance it’s disastrous. They can’t afford to replace the car.

I’ve had my car stolen. A minor inconvenience but an emotional ride. And whoever stole my car took it for a joyride and then smashed every window and dumped it.

In Baltimore, the cars are being sold to chop shops, processed, and shipped overseas. You’re not getting it back.

I have no children, so I do not have a parent’s perspective. I want the kid punished and not just “take away his cell phone”. Baltimore tried probation, community service, job training and “reparations”. Car thefts went up.

I’d love to see the little shits thrown in jail. Better still, solitary confinement for a week. THEN all those other rehab things…

If it was your kid, what would you want to see happen?

[getagrip_already]

1. First, there are some career criminals at 13, and some dumb kids

The question is how do you sort out the gang bangers stealing 40 cars a week from the dumb fuck trying to impress his/her friends.

If it's the former, try them as adults. I didn't do my job as a parent by that point and they are heading for a far worse place.

If the latter, then yeah, cut them the juvie route.

So as in all things with the law, it ain't a one size fits all answer.

[qwlauren35]

6. Thank you for pointing that out.

I can accept the one time stupidity aspect. Even though the pain the kid is causing someone else could be fairly significant.

[NowISeetheLight]

29. Agree

That's kind of my view as well. I even view DUI the same way. A friend of mine got one about 12 years ago. He spent 15 days in Joe Arpios Tent City for extreme DUI. He started AA and is approaching his 11 year coin. One thing he's never done is drink and drive again. I'd think the experience would scare you straight. Kind of like these kids. First offense, run them through Juvie, scare the hell out of them and show them where theyre headed if they keep it up. Then if they do it again lock them up.

[appleannie1]

2. I have a son that put us through 2 years of hell as a teenager.

I am not exaggerating in the least. He destroyed his bedroom. I called the psych ward in a town close by. They sent a case worker out. I signed the papers to have him held on an involuntary commitment while he was standing there screaming he would hate me to the day I die. After 5 days they released him saying he was just angry over the death of his older brother. They got an appointment for him with a psychologist. After a couple weeks he told his father (He was not speaking to me) that we were wasting our money because the guy would sleep during his sessions. I asked around and found out the doc had narcolepsy. He pulled a shotgun on his sister in a fit of rage. We took all our hunting rifles to a neighbor's house for safe keeping. He put holes in every inner door in our 5 bedroom house, he punched holes in walls, he tried to drown himself in our pond. I took him to numerous doctors. Most seemed to think he was on drugs. I knew he wasn't. He got kicked completely out of school. Then one day he flew into a rage and started destroying my kitchen. I called the police before he knocked the phone off the wall. I managed to give them our address before that happened. I live in the country and it took them 20 minutes to arrive with lights and sirens. By then the switch had flipped and he was standing in the mess crying. The police said all they could do was write him up for disorderly conduct. I said BS, I want him arrested. They said "But he is a kid and if we arrest him, we will have to put him in handcuffs" I replied "I hope that you do for your own safety". So they cuffed him, put him in the back of the car and said they were taking him to a different hospital, at the other end of our county. His father and I drove to the hospital and waited until the doctor came out to speak to us. We signed the papers again only this time the doctor said he would not release him until he found t he problem. Tests showed
he was having seizures in the part of the brain that controls our emotions due to a lesion on his brain that had been caused by an blow to his head. Probably from playing sports in school. The lesion was not healing because of the seizures and the seizures were caused by the lesion. A catch 22 kind of thing. The doctor put him on a drug for epilepsy and within just a couple days, we had our son back. He is 51 years old now, happily married with a really good paying job.
These parents that never discipline their kids and bail them out when they break laws are only harming their children. Trump is a good example of what can happen. And most of the people that as adults end up in jail for life never had structure in their lives. As parents we are not supposed to be their best friend, we are supposed to be their teacher, their mentor and sometimes their disciplinarian.

[qwlauren35]

4. Thank you for sharing that.

Poor kid, poor you, so glad for the doctor, so glad for the happy ending.

[Kaleva]

5. When my youngest stepson was sentenced to jail

I was the only person in the court room who was happy.

The stint in the clink turned him around. He is now happy, married to a wonderful woman, has great kids and has recently started up his own construction business.

[appleannie1]

30. I have 3 stepdaughters.

Sometimes it takes something like that to realize that not all step parents are like those in fairytales. Many stepchildren are suspicious and angry and act out as a result. My hubby won full custody of his 3 daughters in a court of law, something almost unheard of in the sixties. They then lived with him and his mother for over a year before we met and married. His mother would ask them what they wanted for supper and then stand and cook 3 different meals for them. I had two boys when we married and I only cooked one meal for everyone. Plus their other grandmother would call and tell them that I was not their mother and they did not have to listen to me. It took me years to gain their trust. Now, even though their father is gone, they treat me the same as my biological children, with love and respect. And like I said, sometimes it takes something hard to bear to make them realize how very lucky they really are.

[Kaleva]

38. The step kids, now in early 30s, have thanked me

The oldest was always good but the stepdaughter and youngest stepson were no picnic!

[malaise]

24. What an amazing story

You never gave up

[ProfessorGAC]

32. Interesting Story

My wife's brother developed severe epilepsy from a head injury, too.
He's 75 now. He's in assisted living but doing OK.
His seizures were so bad he gas not been granted a driver's license since 1973.
Fortunately for their family, the situation never manifested as violent outbursts like you describe. Some odd behaviors, but not aggressive.
Glad everything worked out in the end & kudos to the doctor was determined to find a root cause.

[SYFROYH]

35. Wow. Glad to hear he was diagnosed. And treated.

It does make me wonder if there are t many more cases of undiagnosed medical problems causing behavioral problems.

[qwlauren35]

3. Two strikes...

If the kid learns after the first arrest, then I can see rehab steps. If you haven't learned after the first time, ....

[justaprogressive]

7. Great! Send a child to a place

where he can get expert instruction on breaking the law!

[Ace Rothstein]

8. They're already experts at it.

They simply pull out a gun and jack the car from someone. Some people just need to be kept from the rest of society.

[justaprogressive]

10. You missed my point entirely!

They will get expert instruction in other more serious crimes,

B&E

Armed Robbery

Safe Cracking

Drug Dealing

The whole panoply of crime is available....and they are still young and impressionable.

[Torchlight]

21. That level of instruction can be found as braodly anywhere else, as well.

Easier to locate the mentors for it on the streets than in lockup, though.

[Mr.Bill]

37. Segregate any first-time arrestees from

the rest of the population of the correctional facility. Might not be a bad idea for the adult first-timers also.

[qwlauren35]

11. Carjacking is a violent crime.

I think juv'ie is automatic, and some may be tried as adults.

[qwlauren35]

9. Please explain the proper options.

I can understand your concern. For some kids, it's a disaster, and makes them a hardened criminal.

But what else is there?
- do they need to be gotten off the street?
- do they need to understand that they have committed a crime?
- should there be any punitive aspect?

I look forward to hearing your response.

[justaprogressive]

12. Having worked professionally

in both Child Care (NY state PINS petition females) and 30 years as a licensed nurse
working several years in drug rehab...

We've created this problem, so what can one think but that first we create thieves
then we punish them for becoming such?

I have found that Juvenile Placement is still the best option, to give those not yet
committed to a life of crime a second chance. Admittedly some of the programs are
badly designed and relatively ineffective, including some I worked for. However when
it is done right it is currently our best option to reach these kids. IMHO

[qwlauren35]

14. What is Juvenile Placement?

I'm not familiar.

Is it like foster care?

[justaprogressive]

17. No.

In NY f'rinstance: A Juvenile detention facility has: A school . An Infirmary (W/Nurse). Dormitories.
Accompanied walks and outings, movies, shopping malls, dances...A few run, we go to great effort
to find them again...most don't run. Three fourths of my clients made it to the other side, but the
one that didn't nearly broke my heart.

A PINS petition = person in need of supervision

[qwlauren35]

20. WOW!

It sounds like you are seriously rewarding them for stealing a car, especially if their home life sucks.

Nothing punitive whatsoever. No consequence to their actions.

Maybe its because I'm not a parent, I haven't seen your side of things, and I've had my car stolen... but knowing that this is what a kid has to look forward to if s/he steals a car is very hard to accept.

Is there any negative consequence in your scenario?

[justaprogressive]

23. Wow indeed

being locked up for years, away from your family and friends.

The way you get out is you graduate HS.

You'd like that would you?

Would you rather we executed them for a crime of PROPERTY!?

[qwlauren35]

36. Actually

I would have liked that. So maybe that's why I don't see it as punishment.

No one said ANYTHING about executing them. I don't know why you went there.

As I said, I've had my car stolen. I've also had my house broken into. It can be very traumatic. So, when you say "just property", I think you are understating how people respond to those crimes and how devastating they can be.

Selling drugs is also a "non-violent crime". I wouldn't want people to pretend that it's not serious.

[justaprogressive]

42. Our first

HOME was stolen from us in 2008 (Countrywide)

After it had been broken into.

Then about $15,000 worth of equines were stolen from us, so I
think I know about personal property loss...

Since juvenile incarceration doesn't meet with your approval, I was simply wondering
what you would consider an appropriate punishment.

That's why it was phrased as a question!!

[Mossfern]

22. Like Spofford?

I remember the threat of Spofford to the "bad" kids.

[justaprogressive]

25. No. Spofford in the Bronx was

a model of human rights abuses which was eventually shut down
by its community....

In present day, teachers, social workers and staff counsel the children in loco parentis.
Some of these children have serious self-harming or anger issues because
of what their families had done to them. I have to think of it as compassionate incarceration.

[MichMan]

26. If I get my car stolen, it's my fault?

"We've created this problem, so what can one think but that first we create thieves
then we punish them for becoming such?"

[justaprogressive]

28. Non-sequitor.

Merely trying to change your perspective.

BTW that's a straw man argument. Have a nice day

[ProfessorGAC]

33. First...

...it's nonsequitur, with "u".
Second, how is quoting you using a strawman?

[justaprogressive]

34. Dear Professor

sorry the typo upset you.

This is the non-sequitur: "If I get my car stolen, it's my fault?"

[Johnny2X2X]

13. Car theft is one of the few crimes in the US that isn't going down

Almost all crime is near record low levels. Car theft for some reason is near record highs.

The Kia defects that make those cars so easy to steal are a big part of this. It's become a "thing" to do for teens who know they can steal cars, joy ride, then dump them, and rarely get caught. And if they are caught, they won't be tried as adults.

[getagrip_already]

16. You might want to look up some statistics....

Those are largely overhyped faux talking points. Joy riding has been a thing for as long as there have been kids and cars. It's not new.

Yeah, the Kia hack was exacerbated by tik tok, but it's not a scary trend.

Crime is actually down. Even shoplifting.

[Johnny2X2X]

18. That's what I stated

Auto theft is one of the few crimes not going down. Crime overall is incredibly low, and proprty crime in general (which includes auto theft) is nearing 60 year lows.

But auto theft went up in 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023. It's the exception to the rule.

[Amishman]

15. Use of children to commit crimes for the parents is also a thing

Much more common with shoplifting / petty theft, but possible here too.

[TSExile]

19. I finance a Kia...

...and let me tell you how hard it has been to insure it since that Tik Tok hack. I had a letter from my Nationwide agency saying they would not renew my insurance when it came up for renewal. I work as a home aide and drive to and from clients' houses - so my livelihood was very much at stake. Long story short, I did end up getting insurance from a different agency - but I had several sleepless nights wondering how I would get to work, church, the supermarket, etc. One of my friends actually did have her Kia stolen and the jerks totalled it. She ended up getting a Jeep Cherokee and says she will never own another Kia.

I also ended up getting a Club to put on my steering wheel when the car is not in use, and that has given me some peace of mind. These juvenile car thieves probably never comprehend the very serious consequences that their victims suffer. So yeah, have them picking up litter on the side of the road for a month of weekends may be the ticket.

[Shermann]

27. Manufacturers have a small but not insignificant role

Vehicles can be made to be quite difficult to steal without the fob. Manufacturers skimp on security to shave costs because nobody think it will happen to them. Only now are Kia and Hyundai getting called out for their products' vulnerabilities.

[appleannie1]

31. Nowadays there are more options for troubled youth than there were when I was raising my 7 children.

In a town near me there is a whole campus of buildings for boys that have gotten in trouble. There are no bars on windows. They have classes everyday. Each 'cottage' has 'parents' that work there in shifts. The juvenile offenders are given counseling along with schooling. They also have workshops where they learn trades. They have a very high rate of turning kids around and when they leave have HS diploma's and the ability to blend into society. But yes. Some are born without the ability to have empathy for others and for some reason get pleasure in hurting others. Nothing will change them. Hopefully some day science will figure out what is missing in their brains. For now, the only option is to lock them away for their miserable life. The key is to start out giving them a chance. Heaven only knows, just leaving them on the streets with no guidance doesn't help anyone because all they learn there is how to take from others without getting caught.

[justaprogressive]

44. Thank you for giving

another example of successful juvenile placement. (See my post #12
where I describe working for such a facility)

However I take issue with the following statement:

"Some are born without the ability to have empathy for
others and for some reason get pleasure in hurting others.
Nothing will change them."

No one is BORN this way. Attitudes such as you described
are TAUGHT just like HATE is. A large percentage of the damaged kids
we saw had parents that were completely off the deep end. The patterns
of abuse made you want to cry..

Now the 30yr nurse in me speaking, yes, there are a very few kids who have chemical
imbalances in their brain, but using this myth (and research has shown it is a myth) to explain
depression, bipolar and other diagnoses is a dead end.

Once again thanks for posting about a working program...

[hunter]

39. Whadya mean, "what would you want to see happen?" I'm the one who taught 'em how!

Who wouldn't want to teach their kids this important survival skill?

I guess it depends on whose car gets stolen...

?si=zwNUnCvqtIVywapm

Okay, I'm being a bit sarcastic, but I don't think we can depend on the police or the justice system to solve this problem. The roots go deeper than that.

What images are popping into your head when you imagine a 13 year old car thief?

Maybe my kids?

I'd do my best to keep my children out of the "justice system." I'm especially wary of the police. Nevertheless, I never shielded my children from the actual consequences of any trouble they got into so they had the good sense not to steal cars by the time they were teenagers and what interactions they had with the police were fairly negligible.

[brooklynite]

40. I would disagree with "car theft is not a violent crime"

In the context of 13-16 year olds, you have people who don’t have driving skills trying to get away as fast as possible. That means a much greater likelihood of a collision, injury or death of a pedestrian or other driver.

[qwlauren35]

41. Car theft in Maryland is a felony.

Maybe not in other states, but it's more serious than vandalism or shoplifting.

[justaprogressive]

43. Grand Theft Felony

is anything above $500...nationwide...

[justaprogressive]

45. Yes and when the police chase them

that increases the chances of loss of life and multiple accidents by 1000 fold.