General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI have been an ardent defender of AG Garland, but after today's political charged report against
President Biden's handling of the document case, with insinuations in the report citing "age and memory issues" as factors, and reflecting on the delays from the DOJ in investigating Donald Trump, seemingly only to initiate a special prosecutor appointment only after the January 6th committee had finished their investigation, and very likely being a motivating force in that appointment, I am personally disappointed and disillusioned in the DOJ.
The fact that by all appearances, Fani WIllis, Letitia James, and district attorney Bragg seemed more aggressive in their pursuit of Donald Trump's misdeads than AG Garland, only add to my disappointment with the DOJ.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)your snark response.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)all of which responses boil down to, "Shut up. I don't like what you are saying."
I do agree with you, though.
Wuddles440
(2,094 posts)And will continue to do so until President Biden removes this Federalist Society loving hack as the AG!
Cthulu on call
(45 posts)Always has been the federalist society, every action one of their syncophant legal whores take is in line with their seditious and treasonous plan for unending white male Christian domination of this nation, and suppression of rights for everyone else.
Orrex
(67,115 posts)Response to Orrex (Reply #116)
Post removed
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)I was dealing with elections nationwide and was on the ground in Wisconsin. How about you?
Also not clear what that has to do with ranting about the Attorney General.
Torchlight
(6,830 posts)Best of luck!
sprinkleeninow
(22,349 posts)Just an internal sense inside.
Merlot
(9,696 posts)Guess who else I felt the same way about....
James Comey.
I guess this means I can trust my internal meter.
👊
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)Obama was just trying to thread the needle to get someone seated that the Republicans would tolerate.
He was never supposed to be someone we all fell in love with or be set up as someone to forever rally around.
He would have never been forwarded at all if there was a Democratic majority.
newdayneeded
(2,493 posts)Obama named Garland because he was a centrist (somewhat right leaning) just to try and get McConnell and his loser brigade to accept him. Garland was never a left or far left option for Obama.
msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts),a very dim forecasting of his performance as AG.
It wasn't a small pain in my stomach either.
Farmer-Rick
(12,667 posts)He reminds me of Comey. Pretending to give a crap about democracy while playing partisan games to help Nazis.
I guess we should be glad he f*cked over his boss now and not 11 days before the election.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)counsels, both for President Biden and his son Hunter, to "demonstrate" how fair he is, and reflecting how long it took him to finally appoint a special prosecutor against trump, from perspective he is too weak for attorney general.
LeftInTX
(34,302 posts)Or even an old Bush appointee. But a Trump appointee? eekk....
Did he know this guy's history???
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)That sounds like Trump arguing that only Republicans should judge Trumps actions. Our government shouldnt operate that way.
druidity33
(6,915 posts)naive question. Why shouldn't he consider it? Because of appearances? Anything Trump has touched, nominated, lauded, etc is tainted as fuck. Any "friend" of his is our enemy. At this point that is pretty much 100% of Rs. And really, who the hell cares what Trump thinks?
LeftInTX
(34,302 posts)But I also look at other issues besides Trump etc.
bigtree
(94,269 posts)... EVERY time one of these republican motherfuckers does something ALL it seems people can do is blame Biden's AG.
It's a SPECIAL COUNSEL report, with zero imput from Garland.
And, lookee here, another Garland critic trying to link this to the appointment of the man who brought a historic TWO felony indictments against the former president.
Garland critics not only regularly, mistakenly conflate the work of the SCs with the AG, but take their angst to these ridiculous conclusions which aren't even based in the actual circumstances of events.
It's just another Garland-bashing opportunity, and this one is so disconnected from reality that it's just silly criticism for nothing but criticism's sake.
edhopper
(37,370 posts)There was no need to appoint a partisan SC.
And if there was a need, why none for Pence?
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)onenote
(46,143 posts)But you knew that, I suspect.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)newdayneeded
(2,493 posts)by Smith was known months before trump declared.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)a being disconnected from reality, just answer one question for me, why did it take him so long to appoint a special counsel to investigate trump?
ShazzieB
(22,593 posts)Garland appointed the special prosecutor for Trump when it became clear Trump was going to run again. I don't know why he didn't feel the need to do it sooner, but that was evidently the catalyst that made him realize appointing a special prosecutor NOW was an absolute necessity.
I'm not going to defend his waiting so long, but I'm not ready to dump on him for it, either, because I have no idea why he evidently thought it wasn't necessary until then.
I am not so much a Garland defender at this point as a Garland agnostic. I feel like there's just too much I don't personally know about what's gone on behind the scenes.
Others are welcome to form their own opinions, of course. That's fine with me.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)ShazzieB
(22,593 posts)msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)He made no secret of his intentions, before and after the 2020 elections. He campaigned for donations long before he officially filed.
So, no.. that notion will never wash.
LeftInTX
(34,302 posts)I'm not one to pile on Garland, because I really don't follow him all that much. But this SC was a bad appointment. Did Garland know that this guy was a political hack?
Silent3
(15,909 posts)...the report before it was released.
Brainfodder
(7,781 posts)If he wins in Nov. has to be voter suppression and/or fraud, there is no way the American People are gonna vote this a$$hole back in legit.
Expecting massive riots, looting like never seen before and large scale destruction of FN/OAN/NM offices if he does pull it off.
The level of pissed off will be off the charts?
hlthe2b
(113,974 posts)I can't reconcile his tough prosecutorial demeanor and work in that trial with what he seems to project today. I just honestly don't know what to think. Even though he was a judge in between, there are many tough and strategic judges. I just don't see the 3-dimensional chess if it is there today and I'd dearly love to see that tough-as-nails prosecutor back.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)and a not too bright one at that, helped by a few friends and relatives. It was a pretty straightforward case.
I don't think his successful prosecution of that case was an indicator of great genius.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)That prosecution was also a long time ago.
FHRRK
(1,410 posts)As you obtained additional info you were able to amend your original opinion.
Kudos, others have a difficult time admitting they were wrong and double down.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)ShazzieB
(22,593 posts)There's this thing called agreeing to disagree. The way it works is we all get to form our own opinions, and we all agree to respect the rights of others to hold a different opinion from us.
Just because someone doesn't see things the way you do does not necessarily mean they can't admit they were wrong, or that they ever were wrong. We are allowed to see things differently.
Last edited Thu Feb 8, 2024, 11:54 PM - Edit history (1)
but there was an immediate snark response. I am supporting the OPs right to change opinion. Will go back a look to see if responses were made to the snark.
Edit: went back and looked, there was no response from you on the snark.
Yet a comment to me for defending the OP.
Again, Duly noted, you seem to feel free to comment on my defense, yet ignores others trying to shut down discussion.
ShazzieB
(22,593 posts)I wasn't sure what "snark" post you were talking about at first, but looking back at the earlier posts in the thread, I'm thinking you must mean the comment about letting Garland's boss know about the poster's displeasure. I actually thought that was kind of funny and not all that harsh, tbh, but in any case, I didn't connect the post I was replying to with that.
What I was reacting to was this line from your post: "Kudos, others have a difficult time admitting they were wrong and double down." I unfortunately took that as a dig against people like me who are still willing to give Garland the benefit of a doubt. I realize now that I took it the wrong way, but that's how it struck me at the time, and I reacted accordingly.
I definitely don't agree with everything Garland has done, but it takes a lot for me to condemn someone as strongly as some folks at DU have been doing. Some of the criticism of him that I've read here is extremely severe, and today seemed to be especially bad, due to the release of the special counsel's report.
I understand why people are upset with Garland, and I respect everyone's right to hold whatever opinion they hold and hope others will extend the same courtesy to me. That said, I have been finding today's barrage of Garland hate hard to deal with and let that leak into my reply to you, which was inappropriate. I appreciate you clarifying the point of your post and regret overreacting the way I did.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)about Garland for years now.
You still find it funny?
ShazzieB
(22,593 posts)Much less that it was a sore point with anyone. I admittedly don't always read every post in every Garland-bashing thread, because I find those threads tiresome. (Too much of the same thing, over and over. I know a lot of people here hate Garland. I don't need to read every thread that says so to be aware of that.)
I do still find it funny. Sarcastic for sure, but sarcasm can be quite funny. Perhaps I wouldn't be amused if I had seen the overuse you describe, but I have not.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)It is also a very busy news day. As for Fox, they are always on about something... but their audience won't vote for Biden anyway.
BeyondGeography
(41,101 posts)Which will blow this off the radar screen. Not to mention the pain NY is about to impose on Trump.
This slander will change few minds if any.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)I am annoyed with Garland. He should have said no charges like he did with Pence. He did the same thing Comey did to Hillary. I hope Bidens cans his sorry ass after the election.
Cha
(319,089 posts)but I can't get anyone to pay attention. lol
It's a Valid Point.
ShazzieB
(22,593 posts)Cha
(319,089 posts)ecstatic
(35,075 posts)We don't know what the fuck that clown will say before election week / night. It seems anything goes. No oversight whatsoever.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)doc03
(39,086 posts)has mental problems. It sounds like it was written by the Trump campaign.
dem4decades
(14,061 posts)even let a fair report come out.
I've taken a lot of shit here for criticizing Garland and DOJ and their slow response to Trump's crimes, I was even accused of not being a good democrat but I was only repeating what Katyal and Weissmann were saying and agreeing with them. I still do.
LeftInTX
(34,302 posts)I don't even have a TV. Hubby has TV with an antenna. He was watching the Nightly News on his TV in another room.
I was in absolute total shock. I'm sitting here and I'm hearing Lester Holt and I'm like, "What on earth. I can't believe this??"
Wuddles440
(2,094 posts)but the ugly reality is how their coverage and propaganda influences and dictates the coverage of the MSM - not only nationally, but from a local perspective also. They had already created this negative narrative regarding President Biden's age and the indecent attack by this Garland appointed hack only reinforces their talking points.
Farmer-Rick
(12,667 posts)That if Garland would do something like this now. What will he do 11 days before the election? Write a letter to Congress about Biden's dangerous emails? Make a deal with terrorists to hold on to hostages to make Biden look bad?
Could he not find a special counsel who didn't work for the liberal hating judge Rehnquist?
This is such a Comey like move. Pretend to be all fair and supportive of the administration then turn around and betray his boss to help out a known Nazi lover.
Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)ecstatic
(35,075 posts)Shame on everyone involved in approving the wording of that report. With Garland, all I can do is shake my head. So disappointing.
dalton99a
(94,140 posts)Garland belongs in a law library. He has no business running the DOJ
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)was actually 3 dimensional chess. Riiiiight.
I got a post hidden for criticizing Garland, even though he is NOT an elected official, and certainly not a Democrat.
onenote
(46,143 posts)What you're saying doesn't reflect well on Biden.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)onenote
(46,143 posts)I don't think he believes appointing Garland was a mistake.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)which obviously would certainly be skewed to be based on a groundless or strictly political.
I do hope Biden does privately think it was a big mistake, and makes a change in his next administration, which is often the case in second term.
msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)If ever this often misused meme /cliche has any applicable meaning, it's definitely in this case.
sop
(18,626 posts)I've never read anything more outrageous from a special prosecutor. The report isn't a legal document, it's a political hatchet job.
Cha
(319,089 posts)be don'e about that.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)Cha
(319,089 posts)Not a Week Before the Freaking Election!
I'm interested in how PJB & his Team are going to handle this.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)hadEnuf
(3,616 posts)Expect much more of it.
Be surprised at nothing these people do.
TxGuitar
(4,340 posts)and it should start with Garland.
TomSlick
(13,014 posts)The short answer is the Special Prosecutor found no evidence to rebut innocent explanations for the retention of the documents. The report also notes President Biden's efforts to cooperate - unlike Trump. I think President Biden's crowing was justified.
The fact the Special Prosecutor is a Republican is helpful at this point.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)LeftInTX
(34,302 posts)TomSlick
(13,014 posts)It was unprofessional and predictable.
DemocratInPa
(743 posts)I am still waiting for Biden and his appointees to remove the guy who is going to delay mail in votes and continues to destroy USPS.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)AllaN01Bear
(29,498 posts)lees1975
(7,046 posts)We are pressed against election deadlines because of his delays. If this doesn't get to trial before the election, Garland will have to shoulder that responsibility.
calimary
(90,039 posts)when the Donald was supposedly at the top of his game.
Sky Jewels
(9,148 posts)and got scolded repeatedly for saying so.
Emile
(42,294 posts)The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)Pretending to be 'above politics' is a political stance, and generally a poor one.
Mr. Garland has made support for him impossible by his feckless posturing, as if his reputation weighs greater then the future of democracy in our country and the world.
doc03
(39,086 posts)wrote the opinion. It played right into the Republican claims of Biden's age and mental condition. This is
going to be exploited by the Trump campaign, this bad, real bad.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Or is it just unhelpful? A special prosecutor isnt supposed to worry about making anyone happy.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)I found no evidence of wrong-doing by Mr. Biden.
Period.
Full stop.
It has the benefit of accuracy and brevity, always to be striven for,
The rest is just a partisan Republican hack doing what they do.
doc03
(39,086 posts)political ad for Trump. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up on Hannity giving the Trump
campaign sound bites for their ads.
yankee87
(2,825 posts)Faux Nezzzz
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)competence or his age
It is a hit job to hurt him in the election.
This is what Comey did to Hillary by implying that the email investigation was reopened, which it wasnt, and then late Friday the weekend before the election Comey quietly came out and said nothing new was found.
The only difference is that was brought up 11 days before the election, and this bullshit was brought up 8 months before the election, but you can be sure that good ole boy Jake tapper and the gang at cnn will bring this up with the rest of the MSM every chance they will get.
This is another swift boating what they did to Kerry
jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)jcgoldie
(12,046 posts)That report is amateur hour. Garland has bent over backwards so far to appear apolitical that he's repeatedly a liability to this administration.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)does not realize the damage being done has a short memory when Comey sent a letter to republicans in Congress saying he was reinvestigating Hillarys email, which the media falsely declared that the email investigation was being reopened parading every right wing pundit across their outlets affirming that until late Friday the weekend be the election, Comey came out and said no new information was found, but by that time the damage was done.
This is an extremely serious situation of the level of the swiftboating of Kerry or what was done to Hillary, and almost was done to Obama with rev wright, but Obama got ahead of that within 24 hours.
That is Bidens only chance to get ahead of it and push back and say the special counsels mental assessment of him is bullshit, and politically motivated
republianmushroom
(22,326 posts)36 months (3 years) and counting
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)Takket
(23,715 posts)I have not bought into the "he was doing nothing" narrative investigating drumpf. Seems to me that has been debunked a dozen times over.
But this report is so bad, ABC described it like this: "Details ostensibly meant in part to explain a lack of criminal liability border on mockery." If it is being described as "mockery", it should not have been published.
This report, with no crime to show, was dispatched to be a political hit piece on the "senility" narrative. The SC was employed to to provide the DOJ with an objective analysis of the facts and recommend charges. I doubt that writing what amounts to an opinion piece on the President's mental state was within the SC's scope of services. I doubt the SC is a Doctor or employed any Doctor to make any assertions on Biden's mental state.
Garland should have returned that report to the SC and told them to remove the musing and the ruminations, and please just write a report on the facts of the case without the editorializing and politics. He should have known better than to let something like this out into the public. Allowing this unprofessional report out has inflamed the "Biden is senile" narrative all over again.
Garland should do the right thing and resign, and if he does not, Biden should replace him after the election.
sprinkleeninow
(22,349 posts)LeftInTX
(34,302 posts)Can the report be rewritten?
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)But if you are considering the emptywheel list that has been linked here ad nauseam to be the "debunking" of the idea that Garland was not going hard after the planners and perpetrators of January 6, I invite you to take another look at that long, long list of things Ms. Wheeler says he did in the year and a half before he appointed Smith.
The list has many words, but I invite you to really read it. All those words just camouflage the fact that, in all that time, he only actually interviewed five third-tier organizers of the attempt to overthrow our government. Five. In a year and a half.
But I'm glad to be in agreement with you about him now.
budkin
(6,849 posts)Absolutely terrified of offending Trump and MAGA
dalton99a
(94,140 posts)Heck, the whole country was united against the bombers, Garland had every resource at his disposal, and it wasn't that hard to prosecute Timothy McVeigh
spanone
(141,628 posts)JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)Duppers
(28,469 posts)And my stance has been questioned both here and by my hubby who has apologized.
"Activism is the rent I pay for living on the planet."
- Alice Walker, author
PatrickforB
(15,426 posts)the anecdotal observations made by Hur are clearly political shots at Biden. He should not get to do that. The report could/should have been shortened to a few pages.
This is what happened. There is no evidence of crime. Period.
To my mind, Garland has leaned WAY too far backward in trying to 'seem' nonpartisan. But now we see these troubling similarities between what Comey did to Clinton, and what Hur tried to do to Biden. The only credit that seems due is that the report came out now instead of October, like Comey's did.
Both acts are still disingenuous, and downright negligent on the part of DOJ.
If you're going to be impartial, great! BE impartial. But don't fuck around with reports like Comey's and Hur's, because both were the acts of partisan hacks....hey, that rhymed!
msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)There were signals during the confirmation hearings for me. I didn't make a point of memorizing, statements or comments.
I just recall a deep sinking feeling the man was not up to the job before him.
I felt Biden appointed him to compensate for his painful experience waiting for the Senate to confirm him for the Supreme Court and it never happened. I also understood Biden's motives were principled just shouldn't have been for that position, imo.
It's a shame, but we'll get past this I think.
3825-87867
(1,939 posts)got a great education, met +the right people, did a great job, won some high profile cases then was nominated to become a Justice only to be turned down because of politics, I might understand.
But after having been nominated highly by the president then being turned down and realizing that the president who nominated you did virtually nothing to get that appointment, I might tend to be a little upset at no support. And further, had to accept waiting until the election because...
Would that affect my life's work down the line? Maybe. Depends on how much I really wanted it yet got no support. In such a case, I might feel a tendency, maybe even subconsciously, to try some form of retaliation. And please don't think that this couldn't happen.
Certainly possible. Probably not. But we're all human. As far as we know, Garland is, too.
Just a thought.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)not Biden, and there was nothing Obama could do because McConnell blocked any hearing in the Senate from being heard. There was nothing that Obama could do if the Senate wouldnt allow the vote to proceed
3825-87867
(1,939 posts)I was merely making a point that support could have come in different ways not simply , oh well, nothing I can do.
Presidents can apply pressure in many ways. That might have happened but we we're privy to it. And even if Garland accepted that, it might still have weighed on his mind. That's a premise that could be considered.
Garland's decisions have been suspect for many reasons. This was one added with the same weight as all the others. The fact the report to Garland was not sent back to be rewritten without the innuendo says more to me wondering what Garland was thinking.
When you get down to government, it's really just business on a national basis. Politics is a fancy word for business. And that means whomever has the biggest guns runs the place. And McConnell had them then and used them. But I'd sure like to have had more public criticism by Obama, even with our Right Wing Press.
Sneederbunk
(17,496 posts)cactusfractal
(578 posts)Not here, anyway.
You're supposed to accept whatever he says or does and be happy about it, because despite his lack of personal partisan affiliation, he's been declared a "Democratic public figure" here, and that renders any critical comments non grata.
Scrivener7
(59,522 posts)in response to this inappropriate slime job that Garland allowed to ooze from his DOJ.
republianmushroom
(22,326 posts)damifino10
(164 posts)The last 2 Democratic DOJ's have been weak. Obama's man failed and now Biden's man has too.
Maybe we need a woman. They seem to have "more balls" than our leaders picks.
TomDaisy
(2,120 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(179,871 posts)In theory, the attorney general could have kept the report secret. In practice, he had only one option. If AG Garland did not release the Hur report, it was going to be either leaked or disclosed by the GOP in a hearing which would give the report far greater exposure and coverage.
Link to tweet
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/09/garland-decision-release-hur-report-00140806
In practice, though, burying or censoring the report would have been untenable, former Justice Department leaders say.
They described a high-stakes calculus for both Garland and Hur informed by previous politically sensitive investigations: Special counsel reports have always been made public in recent years, and Garland would have been slammed by Republicans and the press if he tried to keep this one under wraps. Hur, meanwhile, clearly understood that political reality, so the harsh language he included was exactly what he expected the public to see.....
While the DOJ regulations used to appoint special counsels call for their final reports to be confidential and Hur labeled his as such, in recent years it has become customary for attorneys general facing political pressure to vow to release them publicly to the extent the law allows.
Despite the caterwauling from the White House this week, the conclusion of Hurs probe was sure to draw a flurry of Freedom of Information Act requests and lawsuits from news organizations and Bidens political foes. House Republicans could also have subpoenaed the report and related records. The letter Bidens lawyers sent to Hur indicates transcripts exist of the prosecutors interviews with Biden, so the memory lapses Hur cited may have become public whether Hur had colorfully characterized them or not......
And while some Justice Department veterans said the buck stops with Garland, others argued that the attorney general had no choice but to release the report Hur delivered. Hur and his team likely would have understood that their words would become public, even though the report was labeled confidential.
Mr. Hurs report had to be released unedited lest the attorney general were to be accused of protecting President Biden, Rossi said.
Even if the full report was not leaked, the report would had eventually come out when Comer or Gym Jordan subpoenaed Garland, Hur and the report itself. Disclosure of the full report would have been a bigger deal than releasing the report in full this far in advance of the general election.