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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsVery sad- Israel is bombing Rafah during Superbowl
Rep Jamaal Bowman NY
While we watched the Super Bowl, Netanyahu launched a wave of attacks and killed innocent civilians in Rafah - a place where many refugees fled for relative safety - despite warnings from Biden.
Link to tweet
?s=46&t
Jewish Voice for Peace
The Israeli military is bombing Rafah, the most densely populated area in the world, while Americans watch the Super Bowl. This is intentional. This is genocide.
We're demanding the world watching the #superbowl turn their eyes to #Rafah. #alleyesongaza #CeasefireNOW
Link to tweet
?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ
Israel told a million Palestinian civilians to seek refuge in Rafah, the designated safe place.
Israel is now intensely bombing Rafah through air, land and sea, in the middle of the night.
This is a genocide.
Link to tweet
?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ
brush
(61,033 posts)Israel can do better.
NoRethugFriends
(3,772 posts)Not that Netanyahu is not horrendous.
And what in the world does the Super Bowl have to do with it?
brush
(61,033 posts)Response to brush (Reply #17)
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Response to Post removed (Reply #28)
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radius777
(3,921 posts)One side is heavily supported with 1st world weapons, and the other side has basically little to no defense - and is being made to suffer simply for being brown and Muslim. Civilians should always be off limits. Basically this is Israel using the terrorist attack as a pretext for stealing Gaza and killing brown people - just as Bush used 9-11 to wage his illegal wars. Israel has killed 30k people (many children), while the Hamas attack killed 1200 and took about 250 hostages. It seems that the lives of the brown Palestinians are worth far less than that of white Israelis.
JI7
(93,827 posts)Where do you want them to go ?
radius777
(3,921 posts)of RW Christian whites - the same people who are supporting this genocidal war on the Palestinians. The Christian Zionists simpy view Jews as a means to an end: Israel gives them a strategic position in an oil-rich region, and it gives them the opportunity to kill/subjugate Muslims. It's the same reason the RW in this country (and throughout the west) supported Bush's illegal wars - to 'steal the oil' and 'kick brown ass'.
If you look at most of the postings on social media or sites like Yahoo news stories related to this conflict - many/most are RW and Islamophobic and view genocide of Palestinians as what they deserve. The GOP is heavily pro Netanyahu, who himself is a RW Likud militarist and authoritarian.
JI7
(93,827 posts)You are excusing the persecution of Jews done by Muslims .
radius777
(3,921 posts)of RW Christian Zionism, which is at the root of this issue.
JI7
(93,827 posts)radius777
(3,921 posts)and meddling in the Middle East which led to the creation of Israel and expulsion of Palestinians
Prior to this the Muslims lived side by side with Jews. The heart of anti-Semitism mainly is RW Christians who have long persecuted the Jews. It wasn't Muslims who were responsible for the Holocaust or WWII - it was white Christians.
JI7
(93,827 posts)radius777
(3,921 posts)In no way is this a fair fight. Israel is supported by the west and its military might, who created this situation in the first place, as a result of the west's own anti-Semitism and neoconservative RW objectives. Muslims have been slaughtered and displaced in many of these wars, with the media rarely viewing their lives as having any value relative to that of an American or Israeli.
The vast economic impact of the post-9/11 wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, and elsewhere is poorly understood by the U.S. public and policymakers. This paper estimates the budgetary costs of war, including past expenditures and future obligations to care for veterans of these wars.
U.S. Budgetary Costs: $8 Trillion
Human Toll: 905,000 - 940,000 Direct Deaths
Human Toll Including Indirect Deaths: 4.5-4.7 Million
People Displaced: 38 Million
JI7
(93,827 posts)because of what the US did after 9-11.
Mountainguy
(2,145 posts)"Pick people I don't like and blame them for everything bad in the world."
radius777
(3,921 posts)which led to the disruption in the Middle East and the creation of Israel, and the expulsion of Palestinians.
All of the wars the west has waged in the Middle East are driven by the same underlying ideology, which seeks to control the area with Israel as a proxy.
Arazi
(8,887 posts)(And covertly by Qatar and Turkey).
These are among the best equipped militaries with both hardware, $$ and intel.
Hamas and Hezbollah have been launching rockets for years and havent stopped. Where do you think they get them? The Israelis have found ammo stashes all over the place.
And the billions in aid (sic) money has gone directly into constructing defense fortifications and more weapons.
Where are you getting the notion that Hamas is under equipped? They launched a fucking war against Israel because they had massive support behind them
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,163 posts)radius777
(3,921 posts)The IDF only would have justification for surgical strikes against such groups - not to wage war against innocent Palestinians who are being made to pay the price simply for being brown and Muslim, and are being driven from their homeland.
Arazi
(8,887 posts)Is this the first war youve paid attention to? Because this is the nature of war. Hamas has chosen this. Blame them.
This particular episode was a hostage rescue anyway. Civilian casualties are totally on Hamas for housing hostages in a civilian area.
Or would you rather the hostages stayed there, imprisoned and abused, and Israel didnt try to rescue them?
sarisataka
(22,775 posts)When I am in a war I most definitely want it "unfair" and tipped as much in my favor as I can get. War isn't some lighthearted sports competition.
For future reference, if Hamas doesn't want to be on the wrong side of an unfair war, don't commit inhuman atrocities against the civilians of a stronger neighbor.
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,163 posts)during Desert Storm, we brought overwhelming power to the battlefield to the Iraqi Army.
There is no such thing as a "fair" war.
radius777
(3,921 posts)were cowardly crimes against humanity - racist neocon MIC oil wars of choice.
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,163 posts)Ok, whatever you say.
Mountainguy
(2,145 posts)Hamas and Palestine in general has been begging for a war with Israel for decades. This is what a war with a modernized military against an urban-based guerilla force looks like.
radius777
(3,921 posts)One side has the best western weapons, and the other side is living in tents and starving.
The Palestinians don't deserve to be killed due to the actions of various terrorist groups.
The IDF simply is using the terrorist attack as a pretext to drive them away and steal Gaza.
sarisataka
(22,775 posts)Unfortunately for them, the people they want to kill are equipped with the best western weapons.
Unfortunately for the Palestinians, their government (chosen or not) values them more as martyrs than living people.
At least you acknowledge Israel was attacked.
madaboutharry
(42,034 posts)This was part of a hostage rescue operation. Shin Bet and IDF report many terrorists killed in the operation to extract hostages.
Dont kidnap people and hold them hostage if you dont want the army coming after you. Israel has every right to rescue hostages being held captive by terrorists. Rescuing hostages is not genocide. I could say more, but I wont.
Fernando Marman (61) and Louis Har (70) in good condition; extraction only 2nd successful rescue since Oct. 7 * IDF strikes hit Rafah hard amid op, says many terrorists killed
Forces clandestinely arrived at the target at around 1 a.m., and carried out a very complex action on the premises and the second floor where the hostages were held.
He says preparations included backup, a major aerial envelope, and intimate intel.
He says forces then broke into the building through a locked door and exchanged fire with gunmen in the building and in adjacent buildings, while extracting the hostages to armored vehicles.
There was intense firepower from the air. Fire was opened from nearby buildings. The Air Force struck intensively there, he says. At the same time, the armored corps also provided cover for the extraction.
Hagari says many terrorists were eliminated tonight in this action.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/weve-been-working-on-this-for-a-long-time-idf-spokesman-offers-details-on-rescue/
Sympthsical
(11,071 posts)And they won't say anything even slightly nice about Israel unless it's through gritted teeth.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/12/israeli-hostages-freed-rafah-idf-gaza-report-dozens-palestinians-killed-strikes
Literally painting Hamas holding hostages in Rafah and Israel going in to get them as "Genocide, you guys!"
I didn't think I'd miss it when people at least pretended not to be all in with the theocratic lunatics, yet here we are.
radius777
(3,921 posts)The RW theocrats are Netanyahu and his Likud thugs which are waging genocide against innocent people.
radius777
(3,921 posts)brought up a funding bill that only included funding for Israel.
It was mainly GOP that censured Rashida Tlaib:
It is important to separate people and government, she said. The idea that criticizing the government of Israel is antisemitic sets a very dangerous precedent. And its been used to silence diverse voices speaking up for human rights across our nation.
I stand with Palestine, not with the RW.
betsuni
(29,221 posts)radius777
(3,921 posts)and other western nations - for the reasons described above - which have little to do with concern for Jews.
betsuni
(29,221 posts)Sympthsical
(11,071 posts)Sorry, my inflection is weird. Let me try again.
Woooooooooooow.
Hamas: misunderstood secular humanists who aspire toward the best for us all.
And why is it you can call Netanyahu and Likud theocratic and that's not antisemitism, but I call Hamas theocrats and that's Islamophobia?
That's packing a lot of contradiction into so few words. I'm honestly kind of impressed by the economy of it.
radius777
(3,921 posts)Netanyahu is indeed a RW Likud Zionist - that is an objective reality - who is loved by our own GOP. Johnson even put forth a standalone Israel funding bill when they won't fund anything else.
I stand with Palestine not with RW Zionists and neocons.
betsuni
(29,221 posts)radius777
(3,921 posts)citing the risk to civilians. Biden Admin has been working behind the scenes for a ceasefire, not strongly enough in my opinion, though I still support Biden, but many other pro-Palestine voters do not.
Neocon Zionism is far more driven from the RW, which Dems have been cornered into sometimes for not wanting to seem anti-Semitic. Very few if any Dems support what Netanyahu is doing, even if they support Israel. A recent poll was done where 50% of Dem voters view the current situation as genocide.
50% of voters who voted for Biden in 2020 think that Israel is "committing genocide against Palestinian civilians, according to polling from YouGov and The Economist conducted from January 21-23 that surveyed 1,664 US adult citizens.
Another 20% of Biden voters said that's not the case, while another 30% said they were not sure.
Among all registered voters, 32% said that Israel is committing genocide, while 42% said no and another 26% said they were not sure. 67% of Republicans said Israel is not committing genocide.
Sympthsical
(11,071 posts)Is it the desire for genocide of Jews?
Is it subjecting women to brutalization as a matter of course to punish them?
Is it the execution of LGBT people that let you know, "Their quality as people is a cut above!"
Was it the decapitating babies part that screamed "I collect a lot of Christopher Hitchens books"?
Was it the expressed desire for martyrdom that had you thinking, "Not much different from what they teach in any American middle school!"
Was it the expressed desire for the martyrdom of innocent civilians where you thought, "This is practically the embodiment of liberal, Enlightenment ideals!"
Tell me. Which part of Hamas' behavior - as explained through their own words and actions - do you feel is totally rational behavior that is racist to criticize?
I mean, you could've just run around calling everyone a Zionist and left it there. I could have inferred all the rest. But seeing this confirmation is something, lemme tell you.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)madaboutharry
(42,034 posts)radius777
(3,921 posts)who have supported illegal wars (just like this current one) against innocent Muslims for many years now, since the creation of Israel and beyond. No part of that is rational secularism either:
U.S. Budgetary Costs: $8 Trillion
Human Toll: 905,000 - 940,000 Direct Deaths
Human Toll Including Indirect Deaths: 4.5-4.7 Million
People Displaced: 38 Million
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,163 posts)sarisataka
(22,775 posts)and their goals? You may want to research a little.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)Im thrilled for their families.
agingdem
(8,941 posts)Israel gave advanced warning they intended to strike Rafah so no surprise there..and the audacity of the headline as though the Super Bowl was sacrosanct and rescuing hostages was defiling a religious event...
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)would be paying more attention to that football game than whatever was happening in Gaza tonight---
as I am sure you understand.
Yeah, Israel 'gave advanced warning' they intended to strike Rafah,
and President Joe Biden's administration warned them against doing so.......
No, the Super Bowl is not 'sancrosanct' but it is/was the major distraction for the United States,
this Sunday....
and of course, much less news coverage of ANYTHING over the weekend---
that's why "bad actors" spring their bad news late on Friday or thereafter....
Of course attempting to rescue the remaining hostages taken out of Israel is a good thing, in principle---
I will wait for more information on all of this before I make any judgement either way.
Cha
(320,157 posts)People like her who Know what's actually going on.
Cha
(320,157 posts)What's Beyond "sad" is Sneaking into a Music Festival and Slaughtering as many innocent People as you can, Gang Raping and Mutilating Israeli Women, ,and Kidnapping Families from the homes and taking them back to the Hell that HAMAS created.
JI7
(93,827 posts)question everything
(52,298 posts)Many of us here dont care - except for the game being rigged.
This is idiotic
SoFlaBro
(3,805 posts)LeftInTX
(34,745 posts)DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)killing civilians ever since....
And your point was ???
LeftInTX
(34,745 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 12, 2024, 02:23 AM - Edit history (1)
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)Probably the Israelis have bombed Gaza on some 'holy day' to many Gaza civilians,
in the four-plus months since they began their relentless attacks on Gaza...
Does that make them equally morally guilty, in your humble opinion??
It should, unless you choose to be hypocritical on the matter.
Or are the holy days of one people more important than the holy days of another people???
Sorry, but I don't give a damn about 'holy days',
and that has nothing to do with the atrocities committed by one side,
or the carpet bombing against civilian populations committed by the other side....
Both sides are guilty of too much killing.
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)On one of Israel's holy days, I presume you mean....
North Vietnam did much the same when they opened the Tet offensive. So did Japan, when they attacked Pearl Harbor.
It is an effective military strategy. The 'morality' of it is an entirely different question.
Hamas deserve to be destroyed--- but whether they attacked Israel on a 'holy day' to Israel doesn't have a damned thing to do with it.
Have the Palestinians had any 'holy days' in the four months since?
I don't know, I will rely upon your expertise....
If there were any, then Israel has certainly attacked them on any such day since....
but I don't really care about 'holy days', since I am not devout in any religion.
Whenever HAMAS opened their attack, holy day or not, has NO bearing on the morality of the degree of the Israeli response,
which as President Biden has stated, has been "over the top"....
I have sympathized with Israeli in their 'self-defense'---
but once again, they have "gone too far"....
However horrendous and despicable that the Hamas 10-7-23 attacks on Israel were in detail,
they pale against the sheer number of deaths that Israel has caused in Gaza.
Many Israelis were victims of the German holocaust against the European Jews, YES---
but that does not justify them in committing another holocaust against some other civilian population
(whether terrorists are attempting to hide amongst that population or not---
that does not ease the deaths of Gaza women and children, and innocent men for that matter---
who have been obliterated with 2,000 pound bombs dropped on them by Israel,
and perhaps supplied to them by my country, the United States,
to my everlasting shame....)
Israel has had an operational choice in waging this war against Hamas in Gaza---
and they have opted to prevent deaths among their ownground forces,
by bombing the fuck out of the Gaza strip by air---
when a different choice would have prevented many civilian casualties in Gaza.
I say that the firebombing of Tokyo and other Japanese cities by the United States in World War II, was a WAR CRIME---
and likewise the firebombing of Dresden and other German cities by the United States in WW II was a WAR CRIME---
(and even General Curtis LeMay of the US Army Air Force who ordered many of these attacks, remarked to one of his fellow officers, 'we better win this war, or we will likely be charged with war crimes for these attacks' ),
and he was right.
I suppose General LeMay did not stop to consider whether any of these bombing attack fell upon the 'holy days' within the target countries--
and that really has no fucking thing to do with the morality of the matter.
I condemn the Hamas attacks against Israel, before and after October 7th 2023,
and I CONDEMN the Israeli "over the top" over-reaction to those attacks,
and likewise condemn the attacks by my own country against civilian populations during World War II, and any other wars---
likely they shortened the war, but that did not make them morally right...
and I am sick and tired of pro-Israeli advocates who seek to justify what Israel is doing in Gaza, by what the United States did in World War II or other wars.... We were WRONG, we went "OVER THE TOP"--- and I presume that mankind--- especially those who presume to adhere to some sort of 'religious morality'--- have advanced themselves beyond what happened to this world in the 20th century.
LeftInTX
(34,745 posts)The Jewish holy day on October 7th was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shemini_Atzeret
Israel is about 85% Jewish, so not everyone in Israel observes Jewish holy days. Generally there is fasting involved with Jewish holy days. Likewise Ramadan is an entire month of fasting.
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)not for religious reasons, but because most of their food has been cut off as a result of Israeli military action.....
Your response is totally non-responsive, but that is fine.
sheshe2
(98,184 posts)In recorded calls released by the IDF, several Gazan civilians are heard stating how the terror group uses civilian infrastructure and aid organizations as cover for its activities.
https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-781286
Cha
(320,157 posts)https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-781286
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)but that does not excuse the Israeli state for the same
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)I understand that it is observed both by Jews and Muslims.... and happens once every week.
I hope no one would have the audacity to suggest that it is NOT 'a holy day' for those religions.
LeftInTX
(34,745 posts)They did not fast during Ramadan during the Armenian Genocide.
Sorry if I had some type of "audacity".
My grandparents were ruled by Muslims.
My grandmother was interviewed by National Endowment for the Humanities.
My great grandfather wrote a book.
Sorry if I forgot about Fridays.
I guess I'm too naive and have too much audacity.
Or I'm privileged because a few family members survived genocide and I was born.
radius777
(3,921 posts)So innocent Palestinians can be indiscrimately killed (30k) and drive off their land - while the media simply fixates on the deaths and kidnapping of far less Israelis (1200 killed, 250 hostages).
LeftInTX
(34,745 posts)My family were indigenous Armenians.
1.5 million Armenians were killed by the Turks.
Brown on brown slaughter.
White Christian Zionists were not involved.
As matter of fact, the Brits and American saved hundreds of thousands of Armenian lives.
radius777
(3,921 posts)standing against 'scary' brown Muslims, who they hate.
Speaker Johnson brought up a standalone Israel funding bill, and GOP censured Tlaib - because their base hates Muslims and loves war and kiling of brown people.
JI7
(93,827 posts)dalton99a
(95,022 posts)LeftInTX
(34,745 posts)Ace Rothstein
(3,377 posts)There are hostages being held there.
Arazi
(8,887 posts)While this particular episode was a hostage rescue, this is a war.
Its going to be a horror show every day.
Demand that Hamas release the hostages and surrender.
RockRaven
(19,673 posts)and seemingly ubiquitous distraction by trivialities is a problem whenever it occurs.
betsuni
(29,221 posts)A diabolical plot to time a hostage rescue operation in another country while Americans watch a football game and enjoy chicken wings and nachos? I don't get it. Something to do with Western imperialism no doubt.
madaboutharry
(42,034 posts)The hate for all things west is so deep that it causes some to resent anything good that happens, like the rescuing of hostages. Not all that shocking, but apparently some seem genuinely pissed off about it.
betsuni
(29,221 posts)All those tens of thousands of dollars flushed down the toilet for a college degree.
MistakenLamb
(791 posts)Israel is 7 hours ahead of the East Coast, when would be a convenient time for Americans for an Israeli hostage rescue?
betsuni
(29,221 posts)Beastly Boy
(13,283 posts)I have it on good authority that Qatar and Egypt mediated an agreement between Israel and Hamas to conduct the hostage rescue at halftime.
Sources familiar with the negotiations say that the agreement was reached even before the game began, and no American intererests were harmed while the game itself was taking place.
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,163 posts)to adjust it to reflect the true nature of the raid, but that's to be expected.
EYESORE 9001
(29,863 posts)There oughta be a rule about that, considering the cesspool formerly known as twitter has become.
sarisataka
(22,775 posts)OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How can that be???? The ENTIRE WORLD stops to watch the BIGGAME!!!!!
Or maybe Israel figured it is a good time to rescue hostages while Hamas is distracted by Taylor Swift.
Takket
(23,774 posts)Come out of their Fox holes and sing Taylor swift songs.
Now Israel has defiled that most sacred symbol of peace
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,975 posts)BannonsLiver
(20,776 posts)🙄
former9thward
(33,424 posts)A religious celebration where all sides lie down their weapons? Did the U.S. stop their wars on Christmas? Hint: They didn't.
republianmushroom
(22,544 posts)Deep State Witch
(12,746 posts)About Americans and their football games. Frankly, he doesn't give a crap what Americans think at all. Except maybe the RW-ers like Sheldon Adelson that help fund his campaign.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)other than to sling some implication of Jews being sneaky or some such garbage?
The Hamas Superfriends continue to show what they are about, this time a stink raised about a hostage rescue from fucking terrorists.
Those two people are just seen a loss of leverage for the terrorists and that is source of the upset.
tritsofme
(19,929 posts)Deep State Witch
(12,746 posts)Thanks.
RandySF
(85,637 posts)radius777
(3,921 posts)bombing homes and mosque - many still trapped under the rubble. The Palestinian people do not deserve this.
Biden implored Netanyahu not to do this.
RandySF
(85,637 posts)Hamas can lay down their arms, release all hostages (living and dead) and surrender themselves.
yagotme
(4,136 posts)You are now "one of those". Welcome to the club. I have been restating what you posted since mid-Oct. The "Palestinian people don't deserve this" posters refuse to see the Hamas-Gaza connection.
radius777
(3,921 posts)and do not deserve to be starved, killed and driven off of their land for the actions of terrorists.
This can all end when the west stops funding Netanyahu and his racist barbarism.
Aussie105
(8,116 posts)'War in the Holy Land' is the heading.
(Are we conditioned to think this is Jewish Holy Land? It isn't.
3 different religions have their faith based in the area and see it as Holy Land.)
Hostages freed! Two!
Palestinian deaths that occur daily barely get a mention.
Nor does the ongoing human suffering.
Media pre-digests, condenses complex situations, media tells us what to think.
Media tells us who the good guys are, who the bad guys are.
I'm not buying it.
I refuse to believe this is not a war crime, and thousands of deaths are a necessary collateral damage that must be accepted to stop Hamas.