People mad at Jon Stewart missed a hell of an interview

[Sympthsical]

You can always tell when reactions are based on clips or social media commentary or just assumptions, because last night's Daily Show was clearly strongly anti-Trump and anti-Republican in flavor. Some people are sensitive to criticism - any and all. Nothing to be done for that.

But for those who aren't, the last two thirds of Jon Stewart's interview with the Economist's Zanny Minton Beddoes was fantastic. Below is the link to the full episode on Comedy Central. To save time (and delicate sensibilities) let me just say they start the global conversation at:

33:00 It's about a ten minute discussion after that point.

They discuss the global Right's attempts to create a New World Order, Trump's role in that, threats to NATO, and how Republicans are enabling or promoting it. One of the best conversations I've seen on television lately. Best of all, they just talk about it. They don't dumb it down, figure their audience isn't intelligent enough to grasp it, or tell you want to think. They just discuss it.

People grousing about Stewart are missing out.

Don't let the ever-squeaks drown the conversation. This was a good one.

https://www.cc.com/episodes/7lf6wz/the-daily-show-february-12-2024-zanny-minton-beddoes-season-29-ep-1

[elleng]

1. Don't think so, watched enough of it to come away sad re: Stewart.

[NoRethugFriends]

2. For sure

[TwilightZone]

3. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

It's possible to both understand that he can be an excellent interviewer and that many segments are positive, while still taking issue with the false equivalence where Trump and Biden are concerned. His tendency to create false equivalences isn't new, and some may be disappointed that it's still part of the act. I get that. I also get that it's not all there is to him or his show.

[Sympthsical]

5. I wanted to highlight the interview

Because I didn't see it mentioned at all, and it's a really good discussion they had.

I don't think he drew a false equivalence. He drew an equivalence on the age issue - which there's no denying - and then he hammered Trump into the floor for the majority of the rest of the episode.

The interview was similar. They discussed Biden a little bit, then spent the majority of their time discussing the threat of the global Right.

[TwilightZone]

8. Yes and no.

The background headline (WTF ARE WE DOING?!) makes the false equivalence pretty obvious and is likely the only thing that people who didn't watch saw, so I'm not surprised at the reaction, nor can I really argue with it. Yes, he obviously added some nuance, but the initial point was pretty clear.

[Sympthsical]

14. I think insularity is dangerous

It became rapidly clear how many actually watched the show before reacting (a lot fewer than it ought to be).

And now Stewart is being written off "allowed" lists.

As someone who isn't very partisan, I think that kind of iron bubble can create a chasm between wished-for reality and actual reality. Which isn't great as it is. But that creates a secondary problem of not being able to perceive problems, gauge severity, and seek out timely and effective solutions.

It's just something I see again and again, these attempts at social media cooperation in an already insular group to perpetually fortify that insularity against contrary sentiment and then try to spread that into all quarters.

If you feel on the outside of that behavior - and I absolutely do - it's something kind of interesting to watch. Also a little eepy. Like, religious fervor eepy. But last night and all day today have really bordered into some kind of revival event. The rest of the world is talking about this issue in a manner similar to Stewart, and the responses from the tent have been to bust out the snakes.

It's not great, imo. And I think it hurts us politically.

[TwilightZone]

38. You're essentially doing the same thing.

You're seeing what you want to see and you're just waiving off anyone who might believe that any false equivalence in the context of the current environment is, at best, an issue, and, at worst, laughably ridiculous.

I understand that it's a different vibe in context and that Stewart goes after Trump hard after the initial attention-seeking clickbait headline, but not everyone is going to watch the entire show. We live in a soundbite society that absorbs things 30 seconds at a time and the blurbs that are going to be posted and reposted on social media are the clickbait-y ones. The screenshot used for the video was pretty obviously chosen intentionally, and that's the first thing people are going to see.

I agree that you have a point, but I find it hard to argue that those who objected to it don't have one, as well. This is not an either/or situation, as I noted before. If you're going to insist that everyone see the big picture, it might be a good idea to start with your own view.

[Sympthsical]

47. What's the false equivalence?

Let's start there. You keep saying the age issue - i.e. Stewart saying both Biden and Trump are the oldest candidates we've ever had by far, and that there are questions and concerns about that - is a false equivalence.

Ok, how? Let's set the terms of what we're debating. Because I wonder if we're talking past one another.

[58Sunliner]

52. I don't think you are talking past one another, you are avoiding the issue.

[Think. Again.]

15. It really is okay...

...to have reservations about a candidate and still want them to win against the opponent.

The last thing we want is a "cult" similar to the idiots who think trump is next to god.

[TwilightZone]

37. Of course.

That's different than saying "WTF ARE WE DOING?!"

Let's not pretend they're the same thing. If people only saw the all-caps blurb or that particular segment, I really can't blame them for objecting.

[rdchili96]

60. ....

The pointy went right over your head.

[angrychair]

10. Point taken

I also get that it's not all there is to him or his show.

I understand this perspective but also feel that Stewart's approach is no longer tenable in the current situation. The bothsideism of Trump and Biden is as absurd as it is obtuse. It's like saying a tomato is just like an anvil. It makes no sense.

[limbicnuminousity]

4. One of the things that show offers

is calm, measured conversation about important issues (after the laughs). So glad Stewart is back, that was a great interview.

[PatSeg]

43. Yes it does

I do not have to agree with Stewart all the time. I frequently disagree with him, but I do appreciate him and his presentation of current events. As such, I will continue to watch him even when I disagree.

That said, the whole ageism thing minus mention of Biden's many extraordinary accomplishments has become very annoying and often tone-deaf. Also, it is lazy writing, being every late night comic is on the old age bandwagon lately and the jokes are redundant and shallow.

[ramapo]

6. Glad I watched

I was looking forward to Stewart's return but almost didn't watch it because I sawa blurb showing it as a simply "why are we stuck with this Biden-Trump rematch".

I thought "ugh, who needs more of that?".

Well I watched. And I laughed. A lot. Even at Biden. And yes I groaned a few times too because Biden doesn't always come across so great.

The show ran long and the interview didn't record. I looks forward to watching it tomorrow.

I'd given upon Colbert because I couldn't watch hiis Trump segments. They just made me sick. Stewart made me laugh despite the insanity of our situation.

[In It to Win It]

7. I thought it was a great interview.

[lindysalsagal]

42. Absolutely. Plus, he can grab the attention of swing voters

He should be thanked. Even Biden jokes about his age. If it weren't for maga cultists, he'd retire. But that's ok as long as Kamala serves as potus!

[PatSeg]

45. Yes, one can joke about "age"

without being disrespectful and disparaging. I do it all the time in regards to myself.

I don't think anyone covered this issue as well as Lawrence O'Donnell a couple nights ago, as he talked about FDR's last year in office and what he'd accomplished while he was dying. https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/lawrence-biden-on-his-worst-day-is-better-than-trump-on-his-best-day-204101189938

[Hekate]

9. We are in the "Diner" episode and we are laughing. I don't think Jon has lost his mojo.

[Sympthsical]

11. I love Ronny Chieng

When Desi Lydic just completely starts losing it, it reminded me of when Stephen Colbert did the Prince Charles bit with the banana.

[rdchili96]

61. Right

Of course not, but liberals sure have lost their fucking mind getting this upset over jokes on COMEDY Central. Jon's job is not to coddle one political party or the other.

[SunSeeker]

66. Wrong. Liberals have not "lost their minds."

Objecting to one of his bits is not "losing your mind." His other bits were indeed funny, even when he took shots at Biden, like how he dissected Biden’s press conference. That press conference bit was not based on a lie. Same with the diner bit.

But the one premised on Biden and Trump being equally awful, with both warranting a graphic with their heads under his all caps "WTF ARE WE GOING?!" pronouncement, was based on a lie. It was just tired old bullshit both siderism. That graphic sat behind Jon the whole time he went on about how awful our two options are and how nobody wants either one of them. His message was loud and clear. It basically told the young voters who watch this show that it doesn't matter who you vote for, they're both bad. That is a dangerous lie, depressing the vote and normalizing Trump. And not funny.

As any comedian will tell you, for a joke to be really funny, it has to be based on something that is true.

[betsuni]

67. +1

[SocialDemocrat61]

12. Did you like the first part of the interview

where they both trashed Biden?

[NoRethugFriends]

13. Thank you

[Sympthsical]

16. I have a much thicker skin

I don't perceive something as trashing quite as easily.

I saw a discussion - and humor - about an issue most of the country is also discussing amongst themselves.

[SocialDemocrat61]

17. And that boys & girls

is why democrats lose elections they should win.

[Sympthsical]

19. I've rarely seen pretending away problems result in a win

I've seen some insane consequences from it, tho.

[SocialDemocrat61]

22. Defending democrats when they are unfairly attacked

is not pretending away a problem. It’s exactly the opposite. Defending corporate media millionaires who unfairly attack Democrats IS pretending it away.

[SunSeeker]

28. THIS

[progressoid]

18. Yeah, it was a good one.

Could have been even longer IMHO.

[SoFlaBro]

20. You've talked me into it. I am going to give the show another chance with this interview.

[RussBLib]

21. Thanks for posting this

My DVR cut off the last several minutes of the program, for some reason. It was a good interview. What a gig, Jon! One day a week! What's with the "Mondays only" trend? Damn, you talk about a shorter workweek!

Any "New World Order" with Trump, Orban, Putin, etc is by no means a done deal and is a far cry from an inevitability. I see the Dems hammering on abortion rights, women's bodily autonomy and the economy and kicking a lot of ass right up thru November. It would be great to see Trump jailed before the election this fall.

https://russblib.blogspot.com

[Chakaconcarne]

31. Weird...mine did as well... Missed the last 30 min...

[PatSeg]

46. Oh, a lot of services

must have had The Daily Show set as just 30 minutes. I didn't realize this one would be longer, but I ended up watching it on Paramount Plus, so I saw the whole program.

Video on Demand had the whole program, but it included commercials that I couldn't fast-forward through (on my service anyway).

[ificandream]

23. Yes, it was a great interview.

And my DVR cut off the last few minutes too. Have to fix that for next week.

[summer_in_TX]

24. After I got over my surprise at how tough Stewart was on the age thing, I realized he made an important point.

The Biden-Harris campaign can prove Biden's being in charge and ability to handle things by showing him doing so.

I'd already been dealing with my husband and several friends who were sharply critical of the campaign's decision not to do the pre-Super Bowl interview. They think protecting Biden (coddling him) is doing him no favors. They want to see him in action because his winning is critical.

I'd like to see the campaign step it up. I thought Stewart's intent was to put them on their mettle.

[Hope22]

25. My brain has been battered by the taps

of the ‘Biden is old and forgetful’ hammer. When they open with a monologue of this relentless propaganda I give. It’s not funny or useful. Maybe Stewart followed with the best interview ever initiated but I didn’t get to see it. I’m looking at years of recovery from TSF and his repeated lies and hate speech. Speech that has infiltrated my family and in turn gets turned back on me! It is not funny, helpful or necessary. I should rejoice that the worst they can find to attack is Biden’s years on earth and his twists of the tongue but I can’t do it. TSF has damaged the country, his followers and even those of us who have suffered abuse at other times in our lives. I have developed a sort of PTSD to the entire dialogue. These relentless lies are debilitating and I don’t think beating on the only person who can flush that turd is in any way helpful.

[betsuni]

29. +1

[MorbidButterflyTat]

54. Exactly.

[Warpy]

26. Stewart's always been one of the best interviewers in the business

if only because he goes for enough laughs to take the sting out of some very tough questions.

[SunSeeker]

27. I didn't miss it. I wish I did. She played into the both sides nonsense too.

She's a Brit, so her opinion is pretty irrelevant to most US voters, and she's a Thatcherite apologist to boot. Sure, she confirmed Europe is afraid Trump will win, but she didn't do Biden any favors, and she did not disagree with Jon's mockery of Biden. She kept referring to the "liberal" world order (a very European term) as the competing alternative to the right wing new world order, which of course feeds into US right wing conspiracies of anything involving the word liberal. I wish she had referred to it as the "rule of law" alternative as opposed to the liberal alternative. But it doesn't really matter. Neither she, nor her Economist magazine, is an opinion leader in the US.

And please dial back the snark about our "delicate sensibilities" and how we're supposedly oversensitive to criticism. We're not. We're just fucking sick and tired of the bullshit both siderism. That was not constructive criticism. It is just repeating false right wing talking points about Biden's mental abilities. And it wasn't funny.

At one point, Jon mocked people who are making a big deal about the upcoming election, and suggested that whoever wins in November, life will go on. No Jon, for a lot of people, it literally means their life will not go on if Trump is elected. Maybe Jon's life won't be affected, but it will be deadly to the lives of folks like trans kids, or women who need an abortion, or Ukrainians trying to repel Russian expansion.

[betsuni]

30. "Constructive criticism" has had a new definition for about a decade, based on the idea that

Democrats must be constantly berated and insulted.

"We're just fucking sick and tired of the bullshit both siderism" -- exactly.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

55. "We're just fucking sick and tired of the bullshit..."

Yes. We are.

I have to confess I am a bit amused that Jon just totally discounts Nikki Haley as if she doesn't even exist.

Maybe it's an old white guy thing.

[rdchili96]

59. ....

Stop with the purity test bullshit.

[SunSeeker]

65. What "purity test" are you talking about? nt

[betsuni]

68. "Purity test" of not despising Democrats on a forum for supporters of Democrats, apparently.

[bigtree]

32. you must have missed this one

washingtonpost 2015
Jon Stewart perfectly diagnosed the problem with Hillary Clinton’s candidacy
by Chris Cillizza

[Sympthsical]

33. I didn't miss it

[bigtree]

34. Oh, really?

Bob Cesca @bobcesca_go
Jon Stewart last night: "If your guy loses, bad things might happen, but the country is not over."

Oh, really?


Paul Gundlach @PaulSGundlach
Jon Stewart trashed Joe Biden for skipping the traditional presidential Super Bowl day interview, even though Donald Trump himself skipped it in 2018. Then he trashed Joe Biden’s Super Bowl TikTok which I found rather charming.

@jonstewart: "The stakes of this election don't make Donald Trump's opponent less subject to scrutiny. It actually makes him more subject to scrutiny. If the barbarians are at the gate, you want Conan standing on the ramparts, not the Chocolate Chip Cookie guy."

[Sympthsical]

36. Also didn't miss that

These things bother you more than me.

But I don't worry about lèse-majesté, so that sort of thing is bound to happen.

[bigtree]

39. it's actually part of a pattern of discouraging voters

...and his Daily Show contributed greatly to increased cynicism and apathy among voters, especially the sizable number of young voters who watched Stewart and listed his show as their primary news source.

None of what you projected in your post concerns me at all. Criticizing the king? Are you serious?

This is what I'm expecting a repeat of from this gadfly clown:

New Republic, February 13, 2015
Jon Stewart Made America More Cynical

But at least one ode rang false. At The Atlantic, David Sims wrote that Stewart’s “willingness to swipe at every hagiography or exaggeration presented by politicians and media alike made him the most trusted man on television in an era of profound cynicism.” But Stewart shouldn’t get a free pass, just because he’s funny: He did his part to foster that atmosphere of distrust and scorn. Hardly anyone—right or left, public figure or ordinary citizen—could assume they were exempt from his mockery. I’ve often found that watching Stewart attack everyone for half an hour can leave you feeling kind of hopeless.

Empirical research supports this idea. In 2004, Jody Baumgartner and Jonathan Morris, political scientists at East Carolina University, designed an experiment to look at how watching “The Daily Show” affected viewers’ feelings toward politicians of both parties...

Baumgartner and Morris asked members of the control group about their media consumption habits and attitudes toward the candidates and, interestingly, found that regularly watching the “The Daily Show” was the strongest predictor of lacking faith in the electoral system and distrusting the news media. Other comic-news shows, like “The Jay Leno Show” or “Late Show With David Letterman,” didn’t have the same effect.

https://newrepublic.com/article/121069/jon-stewart-made-viewers-more-cynical

[Sympthsical]

44. There are two kinds of party voters

There are those who are true believers in their party. Like a sports team. Through thick and thin, the best ever, anyone who criticizes it is "trashing it".

Then there are those who vote for a party because they're the best option possible in an array of options they don't particularly like. I - and many many many others - are that kind of person. I vote Democratic, dependably and regularly, because I know the Republican alternative is a hellscape of bad policies, bad ideology, and bad institutional practices. And my progressive policy preferences are far more aligned with the Democratic party. It's not a contest for me. I will vote Democratic every time.

But I am not a true believer. I will criticize where criticism is warranted. I think the party makes bad decisions sometimes. Actually, more often than I'm comfortable with when it comes to elections and messaging. I think the DNC and other top-tier electoral organizations in the party need a full clearing out, that the gerontocracy is creating bad electoral choices that ultimately affect all of us.

You dislike that. Because we're very different people. That's fine. Some people clearly feel it's their job to spin everything. I'm not one of them. I try to figure out problems before they become bigger problems.

The age issue is a huge glaring problem. Stewart highlighted how poor the campaign team has been at dealing with that - and it has been piss poor. "Don't talk about it!" isn't a fucking solution. Better campaign people is a solution. Better messaging is a solution. Better choices in media deployment is a solution. Those are the solutions Stewart is calling for. They're solutions I'd like to see, too.

November is too important. "Get your shit together" is a solid constructive sentiment. "Rainbows only!" is not. It never is.

How many times does it take people to learn that?

[bigtree]

48. the age issue is a problem for people who keep saying it's a problem

..and they repeat this inanity as if somone told them to do this desperate thing.

'Oh, the Biden campaign is at risk, and I'm concerned about the election...''

Who in the Biden campaign asked anyone to focus on the age canard every freaking day?

Who asked for all of this?

Where do you see the Biden campaign or the White House anguishing over this like it's the end of the world?

If anything, they want people to just shut up about it and focus on what THE CAMPAIGN is talking about - not this handwringing, self-appointed politicking, or some self-serving comedian looking for giggles and ratings.

Of course, people are free to play election politics like they're running the campaign by remote control.

Or, they can ignorantly use their self-appointed seat on a nationally broadcast comedy 'news' show to muddle issues and candidates and either manipulate voters into being so cynical and apathetic they stay home, or steer them away from the party to some spoiler.

But, go on. Tells more about how important it is for Stewart to continue his convenient, unaccountable political straddle between comedy and self-interested politics, and why we need to pay attention.

[oldinmtdem92]

40. bothsiderisim

i am so fucking sick of the msm bothsiderisim ,it is a simple choice good or evil .open your eyes mutherfuckers wake up.

[oldinmtdem92]

41. bothsiderisim

i am so fucking sick of the msm bothsiderisim ,it is a simple choice good or evil .open your eyes mutherfuckers wake up.

[Rebl2]

49. I recorded the show on

DVR and for whatever reason it cut off at 30 minutes, so didn’t get to see interview with Beddoes.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

50. Hm.

"Some people are sensitive to criticism - any and all. Nothing to be done for that."

What was the criticism some people were sensitive to? I saw Jon make stupid faces, embarrassing gyrations, and pathetic attempts at jokes by taking cheap shots at Prez Biden.

"To save time (and delicate sensibilities)

People grousing about Stewart are missing out.

Don't let the ever-squeaks drown the conversation."

WTF is this? You have your opinion; others have their own. Maybe someone's delicate sensibilities can't handle that simple fact.

[Sympthsical]

51. I said what I said

I also tell friends when I see someone melt down in a Target aisle.

Sometimes unusual extreme social behavior elicits commentary.

[samsingh]

53. i expected more truth from Jon Stewart

being an ageist isn't one of the things i was expecting. Joe Biden is 81. So what. He's a great President. Why doesn't Stewart talk about all the good things Biden has done despite republican traitors in his way.

[Groundhawg]

56. Jon is a comedian

His job isn't to defend things like that it's to take people or issues and use a little truth to expand into a funny situation. Jon did this well in my opinion.

[Hope22]

57. He has an agenda and a purpose for coming out.

Yes everyone does but I’m not sure what his is just yet. Time will tell.

[rdchili96]

63. heheh

Exactly this.

[rdchili96]

58. .....

You can definitely tell those that did not actually watch the full show given their reactions. Hell I saw a lot of "I did not see the show but" then they proceed to give their opinion on something they did not even watch lol.

It's also pretty stupid that people are upset over jokes on a Comedy Show. Mary Trump claiming that Jon is a danger to Democracy over this episode is pretty dumb.

[SunSeeker]

64. Anything that normalizes Trump is a danger to democracy.

Jon could have been funny without suggesting Biden and Trump are both equally bad. A lot of people, particularly young people, only get their news from these kind of late night comedy shows. Jon has said so himself. It matters that he at least start from a truthful assertion, and play on it from there. He started from a false assertion: that both choices are equally bad. That is wrong. And dangerous for our democracy. And even worse for what's supposed to be a comedy show, it wasn't very funny.