They are not "shooters" - they are terrorists

[UpInArms]

shooters are a group of shots taken at a bar - or perhaps, someone "shooting" pool

these horrible creatures that take murderous weapons of mass killing to public events are TERRORISTS

a terrorist is someone who wants to change the way that people live their lives - in this case, by living in fear of being killed by someone with a tool of deadly destruction

I am sick to death of these terrorists going into schools, churches, grocery stores, movie theaters and parades and murdering people.

[sanatanadharma]

1. 2nd amendment terrorists

[Voltaire2]

2. If there is no political motive it is not terrorism. NT

[UpInArms]

4. What is the definition of terrorism?

Terrorism is an action or threat designed to influence the government or intimidate the public. Its purpose is to advance a political, religious or ideological cause.

[usonian]

3. Domestic terrorism

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/fbi-dhs-domestic-terrorism-definitions-terminology-methodology.pdf

Domestic Terrorism for the FBI’s purposes is referenced in U.S. Code at 18 U.S.C. 2331(5), and is defined as activities:

• Involving acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
• Appearing to be intended to:

o Intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
o Influence the policy of government by intimidation or coercion; or
o Affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping;
and

• Occurring primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.

✔

[Hugin]

5. Radicalized by stochastic terrorists.

The trail is plain to see. Nothing is done.

[TheProle]

7. Who radicalized them?

Do we think these juveniles spraying other kids in a parking garage are Trumpists? AM radio enthusiasts? Christian nationalists?

[Kid Charlemagne]

6. Or, alternative explanation: They had beef

As I said, on anther thread, as soon as this story broke and the first details came out, everyone in KC knew this was some gang bullshit and not a spree shooting thing.

Not that it ultimately matters. Dead is dead. Guns are guns.

But this is going to be gun violence that Free Republic is very eager to condemn.

[TheProle]

8. "But this is going to be gun violence that Free Republic is very eager to condemn."

Conversely, the myriad threads here fell off the front page with the quickness once it was all but obvious that this wasn't a beer-bellied white guy / Taylor Swift assassination attempt.

Curious that...

[TheProle]

24. "I can't find the post" -- precisely my point

And I get the frustration and am an advocate for real gun control. But howling in the wind is intellectually dishonest.

If we froze all gun sales today and were able to somehow confiscate half of all civilian-held firearms, there would still be 200 million guns in the country.

We need to keep the political pressure on lawmakers and lobbyists and remain firm in our resolve for some common-sense reform.

But we also need to learn to extend the conversation to personal accountability, and not only when the bad actors are politically opposed to us.

And that means addressing the culture of violence in all its permutations.

[UpInArms]

9. not buying that

those 11 children - what, collateral damage?????

the beloved DJ killed?

the other 10 people?

no .... you do not bring weapons of mass destruction to a parade for a "gang" thing

((((shakes head violently))))

[UpInArms]

15. doesn't matter what you wear

or under what guise you do your killing

you become a terrorist when you terrorize

[Zeitghost]

11. What leads you to believe

That people don't bring guns to public events for gang activity?

That seems like an odd position to take given the countless examples of gang violence over the past few decades.

[UpInArms]

14. anyone bringing a weapon of mass destruction

to a public event is a terrorist ...

you plan to kill someone - anyone - random strangers

you become a terrorist, be you a gang member or a MAGAt

same effort ... same effect

[UpInArms]

19. yes

send them to Gitmo

let them rot behind very strong iron bars for the rest of their miserable lives

[Zeitghost]

20. Words have meanings

And while thee is no shortage of adjectives and labels I would put on those who harm others. This does not meet the well established definition of terrorism.

[UpInArms]

21. when a society decides that anyone can take a weapon of mass destruction

Last edited Thu Feb 15, 2024, 02:59 PM - Edit history (1)

to any public event and kill or maim numerous people with no consequence (edited to add) to the change of legislation, the dialogue needs to change

to think "oh, they are gang members so it's okay to have guns and kill people" certainly sounds whitewashy to me.

[Zeitghost]

22. What leads you to believe

That there will be no consequence?

Or that anyone here or elsewhere think it's okay for gang members to possess and use guns to kill people at parades.

My only point here is that this does not appear to be terrorism.

[UpInArms]

26. you are entitled to your opinion

as I am mine.

[Zeitghost]

27. It's not my opinion

People are under arrest...

[UpInArms]

31. from your post

My only point here is that this does not appear to be terrorism.

That is your opinion.

[Zeitghost]

36. It's also ignoring much of my post

Including my challenge to your claim that there would be no consequences.


But again, words have meanings. And they are not dependent on your opinion or mine.

[UpInArms]

37. Where and when have I claimed there would be no consequences?

Eom

[Zeitghost]

40. Post 21

n/t

[UpInArms]

43. Thank you ....

I have clarified my language on that post

[UpInArms]

32. welcome to DU, Kid Charlemagne

what brought you here today?

[UpInArms]

34. DU is my home

51,195 posts since Apr 25, 2001

I have lived 2 hours north of KC for 31 years ....

in 2001, Earl, Elad and Skinner gave all of us a home and I cannot imagine how lost all of us would be without it.

Long may you post

[onenote]

47. No consequence?

Sounds like you think that the only options are to treat them as "terrorists" -- despite any evidence that they were intending to terrorize -- or to let them go.

Which is absurd

[Igel]

42. So you want a different definition of "terrorist."

In other words, you like the connation of the word and want to leverage it while assigning it a new denotation in order to get people to agree (or to emote).

Personally, I don't like distorting language.

"Terrorist" has a meaning and I'm not willing to call the KC shooters that any more than I'm willing to call the two guys that walked into a diner and killed 4 people (including my cousin) and wounded others "terrorists." They were dignity-clad angry young men with bad attitudes that couldn't settle a disagreement because they'd never been taught reasonable conflict resolution skills by their parents and families but instead bought into the all-too-common idea that "real men" are inflexible and are permitted to use violence to settle verbal disagreements. That their mothers defended them and said they were "good boys" in calling the accusers "racist" did them a disservice. But they had no intent to intimidate the diner's patrons. They just wanted to preserve their sense of dignity and self-worth by not backing down and demonstrating it by being piss-poor shots and indifferent to anybody else. (Both shooters aimed at each other but each walked away unharmed.)

[AkFemDem]

13. I don't think gang members got the memo

That parades are off limits…

[UpInArms]

16. the memo is don't kill random strangers in public places

it makes you a terrorist

[AkFemDem]

28. No, it makes you a murderer

“Terrorism” is a legal term of art.

“Murderer” isn’t a warmer, fuzzier, softer accusation.

[republianmushroom]

12. True, you are correct, Terrorists.

Time to start treating them as such.

[UpInArms]

35. see the post below yours

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18687814

and this is the result of terrorism

[Sogo]

23. "Stop calling them "shooters." They're "killers, murderers!" "

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218573608

[UpInArms]

25. GMTA

Terrorism's goal is to change the victim of such in a profound way. The perpetrator wants to alter how each and every person affected by terrorism views his/her world and force a change to the ways of the terrorist.

[Marthe48]

30. I avoid going out

Terror is stalking our country, rwnj want it this way, and if I have to hole up to save my life, I will do that. I loathe every single person who has put American lives in harm's way, just to arm their unpaid, untrained army they can direct to any event they want to disrupt, and don't care how many people die, what age, what sex, what color, what religion. A mad dog rw court has turned this terror loose on us. They have taken the pursuit of happiness from us, and destroyed our standard of living and quality of life.

[sarisataka]

38. But- Violent crime is dropping fast in the U.S.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218676283

We have dual messages, - that violent crime is dropping and all talk of crime is GOP fearmongering. But then we will say it is too dangerous to leave our homes because crime is so prevalent

[Marthe48]

44. I'm not worried about crime per se

I live in a low crime town, (high in drug trafficking, because there is a n/s Interstate with easy access). I don't worry about getting my pursed snatched, or getting mugged, home invasion.

I do go out, mainly for groceries, a few other errands, but hesitate to go to crowd venues, figuring the odds of getting shot by a rwnj anarchist killer who wants to set a record for the most fatalities and brag about it online. Or more darkly, my own conspiracy theory that the rw wants all members of their unpaid, untrained army to have the guns and ammo they need to try to subvert the will of the people by answering the call from any rw fascist mouthpiece with access to a national megaphone. Better to have a few gang members, a few mentally ill people, a few minors get hold of guns and kill innocent people trying to share an experience, than to deny a single one of their fascist soldiers arms.
Try as I might, no other reason for perverting The Constitution of the United States of America makes sense. If 2A is to be interpreted as liberally as can be, then the body and every other amendment deserves the same kind of interpretation. But no. Our right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness has been ignored; and by the actions of the rw fascists on the (formerly) s.c., that entire phrase has been made meaningless. The 14th Amendment clarified individual rights for all Americans (to put it in a vague nutshell) and yet, women are denied the right to control their own bodies. So the current murderous interpretation of 2A has to be intended for an entire shadow army to have weapons, and if there is collateral damage, it is a small price to pay when the end (loss of Democracy in the U.S.) justifies the means to an entire class of people who see a bottom line and absolutely nothing else.

[EX500rider]

48. And what exactly do you think the odds are in a nation of 331,000,000?

Homicide deaths per 100,000 population: 7.8

That makes the chances of being a homicide victim 0.0078% or 12,820 to 1.

Which makes it very safe to go out, you will be in much greater danger driving there.

Or using a ladder or having poisonous chemicals under the sink.

Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 45,404
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.7

Unintentional fall deaths
Number of deaths: 44,686
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.5

Unintentional poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 102,001
Deaths per 100,000 population: 30.7

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm

[limbicnuminousity]

45. Mixed messages.

Violent crime is down, mass shootings are up. Rape is down compared to a few years ago but is somewhat elevated relative to the pre-Trump years. Hate crimes reached record levels in 2023. Shooting deaths are down but remain significantly elevated relative to the pre-Trump years. And right wing decapitations has a jump in 2024.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/642458/rape-and-sexual-assault-victims-in-the-us-by-gender/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/01/05/hate-crimes-hit-record-levels-in-2023-why-2024-could-be-even-worse/72118808007/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

The crime rate may be dropping but it has a way to go, imho.

[UpInArms]

39. I am so sorry, Marte48

[Marthe48]

46. Don't be sorry, please

It isn't my first choice, but reasonable for my lifestyle.

[SoFlaBro]

41. I am sorry for a Marthe