A top U.N. official says Hamas is 'not a terrorist organization,' sparking furious backlash from Israel

[Behind the Aegis]

A top United Nations official said Hamas was “not a terrorist organization” on Wednesday, sparking outrage from Israel as the U.N. grapples with allegations of anti-Israel bias and antisemitism.

Asked in a TV interview on Wednesday about Israel’s plan to eliminate Hamas, Martin Griffiths, the head of the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, said, “I’ve worked with many, many different terrorist and insurgent groups.”

“Hamas is not a terrorist group for us, of course, as you know. It’s a political movement,” Griffiths added in the exchange on the U.K.’s Sky News.

Following criticism, Griffiths aimed to clarify his statement on Thursday afternoon, but ended up drawing more backlash.

more...

[Dorian Gray]

1. The line from the article that shocked me the most

Is this: "Both the General Assembly and the Human Rights Council annually condemn Israel more than all other countries combined."


For real?

[The Magistrate]

4. In One Recent Year, Sir

Twenty-one resolutions condemning violations of human rights were passed: fourteen denounced Israeli acts in regard to Palestine.

[RAB910]

6. So we shouldn't focus on the actual violations, but rather on the number and who condemned the misdeeds?

[The Magistrate]

9. You Tell Me, Sir

Do you think that, taking the sum of human rights violations around the globe, two thirds are inflicted on less than a thousandth of its population?

[RAB910]

11. I am not going to engage in the fallacy of relative privation, to defend Israel's crimes

[The Magistrate]

13. Thank You For The Laugh, Dear

I do love it when people chant the names of some purported fallacy like it were a word of power to undo sound arguments they haven't the face for.


"It's not something you can ever say, because silence is the perfect expression of scorn."

[RAB910]

14. Mocking laughter will not change the reality that I correctly identified the fallacy being employed to defend the

undefendable. Suggesting that Israel's crimes should be ignored because there are other crimes in the world simply is illogical.

[edhopper]

16. No

you didn't really. To ignore the UN's obsession with every misdeed by Israel, while ignoring worse actions by member countries is the point that you don't want to address.
It calls into question the the UN's motives in it's condemnations.

[Arazi]

19. Nah, it's simply addressing the elephant in the room: antisemitism

Nobody’s fooled. Nobody.

We know exactly why Israel is singled out while Congo, Sudan, Syria, KSA, Iran (insert monstrous nation/regime here) gets a pass.

It’s because they’re Jews.

It’s the antisemitism. Period

[RAB910]

23. Seems that Palestinians being brown skinned and Muslim are not exactly being treated well

[Arazi]

34. A lot of words to try to avoid that elephant

We see y’all.

Nobody’s fooled

[RAB910]

41. Islamophobia? Brown skinned people being treated like second class citizens?

[Arazi]

43. Not the topic here

It’s that the UN believes Hamas is just a “political movement” and Israel/the Jews are always the bad guys - for decades, above and beyond any other nation on the planet (it’s the antisemitism)

[RAB910]

46. seeing how the people whose rights are being violated are Muslim and brow skinned, now is in not the topic?

[Arazi]

48. Start another OP on that

I’m responding to this OP

(And fyi, most of Israel is made up of Jews who were forcibly removed/expelled/who fled mass pogroms from neighboring Arab/Muslim countries like Syria, Jordan etc. For the most part Israelis ARE brown skinned and 25% of Israelis are Muslim)

[thucythucy]

49. You do understand, don't you, that millions of Israelis are,

as you put it, "brown skinned?"

These include those who are descendants of Jews ethnically cleansed from a host of Arab majority nations, such as Tunisia, Algeria, Syria, Iraq, Somalia.... According to Wiki, more than half of Israeli Jews are descendants of or are actually from "brown skinned" areas of the world.

Add to these the several million Arab non-Jewish citizens of Israel, who enjoy greater economic prosperity, and greater political freedoms, than ordinary Arabs anywhere else in the Middle East, and one might ask if there isn't a racist component to all those ethnic Europeans so eager to hold Israel responsible for crimes while other nations, particularly majority white ones, are allowed to skate.

As one example, I have yet to hear any European-American who is arguing for an unfettered right to return for Palestinians making the same demand on behalf of Native Americans. To be consistent, shouldn't they be urging the return of the Dakotas, California, Florida, Texas, New Mexico...in fact the entire continental United States, back to their original inhabitants? I defy you to identity one square mile of the United States, not part of a "reservation," that wasn't stolen from someone.

Every white American then is heir to an inheritance of genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Rather than condemn others for the alleged crimes that they themselves are in fact heir to, what are white anti-Zionist Americans willing to give up to address this horrific historic injustice, so close to home?

Or is it simply that it's so much easier to condemn others when you have no actual "skin," brown red or otherwise, in the game?

[LeftInTX]

52. Muslims are quite capable of committing genocide! They killed 1.6 million Armenians.

Including my family.

This is a thread about the UN. They are stating that Hamas is not a terrorist group.
I find that disturbing. They are a terrorist group.

Muslims aren't better than Jews or Christians.
They were many Christian Palestinians, but their numbers are dwindling.
Heck, Yasser Arafat's wife was a Christian. ( Suha Daoud Tawil)

Sirhan Sirhan was also Christian.

I don't know if Palestinians really see themselves as "brown", as much as displaced (That is the start of the conflict in the 1940s, but Palestinians refused their own state too, because they would lose their property)

Israel isn't fighting Hamas because they're brown and Muslim or somehow disadvantaged because of it.
And they weren't displaced in the 1940s because they were brown and Muslim. They were displaced because the UN created two states.

[SoFlaBro]

50. The UN loses fucking credibility when they talk this shit. Hamas is a terrorist pedophile rapist organization.

[The Magistrate]

25. And Even If It's Not Because They Are Jews, Sir

It's an absurd focus for what purports to be a global body.

It certainly can't be justified on the 'brown and Muslim' wheeze, there are Muslim people of color being mistreated all over the world, from Sinkiang to Timbuktu, and in many cases the people mistreating them are colored Muslims themselves.

[EX500rider]

26. And ask yourself how many resolutions condemning violations of human rights were against say N Korea?

Do they uphold human rights more then Israel?

It is time for the international community to address itself directly to the most serious of North Korea’s human rights violations – the prison labor camps. Situated in the mountains of North Korea, the camps are estimated to hold some 100,000 to 200,000 prisoners, including whole families, many of whom are not expected to survive.

But no Jews involved, so who cares, right?

[RAB910]

27. let me explain

The fallacy of relative privation rejects an argument by stating the existence of a more important problem. The existence of such a worse issue, the fallacy insists, thereby makes the initial argument irrelevant. This fallacy is also known as the appeal to worse problems or “not as bad as”.

https://academy4sc.org/video/fallacy-of-relative-privation-all-problems-are-relative/

[EX500rider]

30. Which does nothing to explain why the UN ignores much worse human rights violators to concentrate on Israel

Iran:
was rocked by an unprecedented popular uprising against the Islamic Republic system. Security forces unlawfully fired live ammunition and metal pellets to crush protests, killing hundreds of men, women and children and injuring thousands. Thousands of people were arbitrarily detained and/or unfairly prosecuted solely for peacefully exercising their human rights. Women, LGBTI people, and ethnic and religious minorities suffered intensified discrimination and violence. Enforced disappearances, torture and other ill-treatment, including through the deliberate denial of medical care, were widespread and systematic. Cruel and inhuman punishments, including flogging, amputation and blinding, were imposed and/or carried out. The use of the death penalty increased and public executions resumed. Trials remained systematically unfair

China:
Disregard for Human Rights
Repression in Xinjiang.
Fear of Arbitrary Arrest.
Religious Freedom Abuses.
Stifling Freedom of Expression.
Forced Labor.
Assault on Hong Kong's Autonomy.
Severe Restrictions in Tibet.

Cuba:
Significant human rights issues included credible reports of: unlawful or arbitrary killings, including extrajudicial killings, by the government; torture and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of political dissidents, detainees, and prisoners by security forces; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions

But lets concentrate on Israel!
A lone democracy with LGBT parades in the Middle East.

[RAB910]

32. That is a seperate issue which is not relevant to the issue of Israel's repeated human rights violations

We shouldn't be ignoring Israel's human rights violations because there are other countries with human rights violations

[EX500rider]

37. But we should be ignoring the other countries violations?

Or is Israel somehow worse then N Korea or Iran?
I see you don't want to address why that is so.

[The Magistrate]

38. Some Are Gifted With An Instinct For The Capillary, Sir

You're dealing with someone who would shunt a stroke victim aside to deal with a snapped finger in an emergency room. After all, it would be a fallacy to neglect the trivial in favor of attending to the critical....

[RAB910]

39. The millions of Palestinians living in what would be fairly described as hell on earth (thanks to Israel) would strongly

disagree with your analogy

[EX500rider]

45. Gaza wasn't "hell on earth" until they started a war with their powerful neighbor who supplies much of their supplies

Who'd guess that would turn out poorly for them?

[RAB910]

47. "They" being Hamas, not the millions of Palestinians who are suffering

[EX500rider]

51. Yes and the Nazi party started World War II

However that didn't protect Germans from the war their government started

[Dorian Gray]

68. Hamas got what they wanted

We need to offer humanitarian aid to the Palestinians living in Gaza. We need to ensure that they are able to return home and rebuild. But this is the fault of Hamas, who provoked the fury of a neighboring state. Israel's response has a lot to be criticized, but Hamas' atrocities against the Israelis should not be forgotten in all of this. If you're angry at Israel, you should also be furious with Hamas. If you don't feel that fury, I don't trust that you can see the humanity in either party.

[The Magistrate]

55. At Least You're Getting Back To Your Strengths, Dear: Emotional Manipulation

Only the hyperbole is far too shop-worn to carry any impact. You will find argument by hyperbole numbs you as much as your listeners over time....

[RAB910]

57. My strenghts are critical thinking and intellectual honesty. It 's how I could so easily spot the logical fallacies and

Double standards are being used to try and defend the indefensible. It's also why I am in immune to the use of ad hominem tactics as well.

[EX500rider]

60. "Double standards" oh the irony

Is that like when the UN concentrates on Israel as opposed to far worse human rights violators? That kind of double standard?

I am in immune to the use of ad hominem tactics as well. More like immune to logic IMO

[sarisataka]

61. .

I have to clean my screen

[MarineCombatEngineer]

63. All you're doing here is attempting to hijack the thread,

you're being very transparent here.
I would suggest that you stick to the discussion about the gist of the thread and go start your own thread.
Just a suggestion.

[TheKentuckian]

62. You want a get out of context free card but it won't be granted

Your argument is goofy, it would mean never examining sentencing disparities or over policing.

It demands that some kid with a joint be hammered and never mind the bank robbers or that the white kid with powder get a pass while the black kid across town with a rock be crucified.

[The Magistrate]

64. I Like That, Sir: A Get Out Of Context Free Card

That is going into the rotation....

[Happy Hoosier]

10. I think you're missing the point....

... the level of attention appears to ne at least suspicious.

Not that Israel doesn't commit human rights violations... they surely do. But a majority in the world? NOPE. But hey, they're jews. They (apparently) deserve it.

[RAB910]

12. What you are suggesting plays into the fallacy of relative privation

[Happy Hoosier]

22. No, it doesn't.

I'm saying, and I say this with confidence, that Israel is NOT the primary perpetrator of human rights violations in the world. I think that can be empiracally demonstrated.

My suspicion is that the disproportionate respnse is driven by Antisemitism. I do not assert that as fact, but as a deeply held suspicion based on hisotrical hatred of Jews.

[RAB910]

28. let me explain

The fallacy of relative privation rejects an argument by stating the existence of a more important problem. The existence of such a worse issue, the fallacy insists, thereby makes the initial argument irrelevant. This fallacy is also known as the appeal to worse problems or “not as bad as”.



https://academy4sc.org/video/fallacy-of-relative-privation-all-problems-are-relative/

[sarisataka]

35. I believe there has not been a year

where Israel has not been the country with the most condemnations. It is an unusual year where Israel is not the subject of 51%+ of the UNHRC actions.

Relative privation could explain a one-off situation, but what the same thing is seen year after year, it becomes necessary to look beyond standard fallacies to see if there is another reason for what is happening

[RAB910]

40. Until Israel is actually innocent of human rights violation these stats are meaningless

[sarisataka]

42. And there it is...

For Israel, perfection is the minimum acceptable standard.

Just above you said-

We shouldn't be ignoring Israel's human rights violations because there are other countries with human rights violations

Here you imply we can ignore other countries human rights violations until Israel has no violations

[TheKentuckian]

54. Jew haters gotta hate Jews. Nothing else matters.

No number of knots to tie themselves up in is too many.

Just don't call them on it, like the Republican white nationalist crime syndicate, theocratic domestic terrorist organization, and insane death cult racists it is considered the incomparably greater "sin" than their racism.

[Dorian Gray]

69. Ouch... this reads REALLY UGLY.

[Cha]

59. The GD Idiocy of thta Statement Should Be Acknowledged.

[betsuni]

2. "an insult to every single victim of October 7th. Pathetic." Yes.

[LeftInTX]

3. Disgusting!

[The Magistrate]

5. This Statement, Sir, Is Peak Something Or Other

Griffiths ... urged “dialogue” to end the conflict.

“If you want to have safety and security with people who are inevitably going to continue to be your neighbor in some form or another you’re going to have to create a relationship based on some shared values.”

I expect hearing his idea of what those 'shared values' might be would appeal to the imp which passes for a sense of humor with me.

[Swede]

7. A disgusting statement by a useful idiot.

He needs to walk off the stage and never open his mouth again.

[DFW]

8. As amply demostrated by their peaceful diplomatic mission across the border last October 7th.

A mere fact-finding mission, of course.

[Arazi]

15. Nobody's surprised by this. Nobody

The UN has been biased against Israel for decades.

This belief has filtered down to organizations like UNRWA who are hopelessly complicit with Hamas, the “political movement”.

[Amishman]

18. Between statements like this and the collaboration between Hamas and UNRWA, the UN is hurting their reputation

And undermining their legitimacy. The UN already is hobbled by the fact that outside the security council, they are powerless.

Not a good look.

[Happy Hoosier]

17. Of course, that has some implications.....

... if Hamas is indeed a "political movement," and not a "terrorist" organization, then the political entity of Hamas planned and executed an attack aimed at civilians and levereaged rape, sexual assault, and torture.

Can't see how any of that makes anything better.

I've lost all confidence in the UN on this matter.

[The Magistrate]

24. I Would Add, Sir

It is possible to pretend a 'terrorist' organization is a mere gang of criminals, a foreign body lodged within a society, separate from its people, and not reflecting on them. But a political movement must, by definition, be something which has some broad footing among a populace, and whose platform and acts must be taken as expressing the will of all its adherents, not just its dues-paying membership.

[GuppyGal]

44. Good Post

[sarisataka]

20. Antisemities are becoming less concerned about publicly showing themselves

individuals and organizations.

His clarification is BS. 'They are not terrorists, they just engage in terrorism.'

[BannonsLiver]

21. What's their username?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

56. 30 International Doctor's?

[BannonsLiver]

67. Oh lord haven't thought about that one in a while!

Seems just like yesterday lol

[Solly Mack]

29. Alrighty then

Damn

[LiberalFighter]

31. That person needs to be sent back to wherever he came from.

[ripcord]

33. I don't think this is at all an uncomon viewpoint in the U.N.

Anti-semitism seems to run rampant there.

[JohnSJ]

36. "It's a political movement, not a terrorist organization"? and that is the problem with some in

high positions in the UN, they are not an unbiased party.

I wonder how many will try to justify those comments made by Martin Griffiths.

[LeftInTX]

53. This is so disturbing....Still upset over it..

[Cha]

58. Fuck the Terrorists aa the UN Pimping for HAMAS!

[mcar]

65. Complicit with terrorism

What is going on at the UN?

[mcar]

66. I wait with bated breath

their actions against Putin for the assasination of Navalny.