What in the all that is unholy f#*k?

[maxrandb]

MSNBC Historian interview: "if Lincoln were alive today, he most likely would endorse Donnie Dipshit"

and then the hosts just laugh and says "the Truth Social post is probably already being written".

MSNBC needs to get so many fucking complaints that they spend the rest of the fucking day apologizing for that stupid 45 seconds of drivel.

[underpants]

1. I had it on but toned him out as a meandering bore

Jonathan and Katy had a serious “this is bad TV” look on their faces.

[Lovie777]

2. Insanesville................................

shithole's cult comparing him to Navalny - WTF

shithole's cult thinks gawd appointed him - WTF

shithole's cult compares him to JC - WTF

etc.

Like I said - welcome to place in hell called Insanesville.

[aggiesal]

20. Also known as Dumbfuckistan n/t

[Chellee]

47. I think Insanville is the capitol of Dumbfuckistan. nt

[aggiesal]

51. Very good ...

[maxrandb]

55. The capital of Dumbfuckistan is Incelville

[Chellee]

59. Are you sure that you're not thinking of Incelberg?

It's a suburb of Insaneville, near Basementdwellerton.

[hlthe2b]

3. Ridiculous even if one tried to argue purely academic stance. He claimed because Lincoln was loyal

to party that is why he'd override EVERYTHING he's stood for because of the "name" of the party which is opposite of everything he stands for and for a party leader who is diametrically opposed to EVERYTHING he stands for.

What utter bullshit. That would be one hell of a humiliating (and quite unsuccessful) Ph.D. dissertation defense (and I've served on a couple of those reviews).

[maxrandb]

4. Must have got his American History Degree

from Donnie Dipshit University.

[maxrandb]

12. Maybe, just maybe, Lincoln was so loyal to his party

Because, at the time, the opposition party wanted to violently tear apart the Union

Gee, that kind of sounds like a binary choice

[hlthe2b]

14. Yes. But this is DU where we know that Republicans of that time were pretty much the Democrats of today

If you posted that elsewhere those ignorant to these details of history would fry you. And that is why this RW think tank historian (goon, in my opinion) gets by with making this ridiculous statement. Loyalty to the R party of the mid-late 1800s hardly equates to sycophantic loyalty to Donald Trump and his brand of R today. Diametrically different.

[Grins]

28. Lincoln left the Republican Party in 1864...

...an election year, and became a member of the National Union Party. Because Republicans were caving on preserving the union.

[niyad]

5. How about putting a name to this person for those of us not in the know?

[maxrandb]

7. Link to video

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/-our-ancient-faith-looks-at-lincoln-s-vision-of-democracy-204474949507

[niyad]

8. Why won't you just give us the NAME? I do NOT want to watch a video.

[Orrex]

21. If it helps, I can link to a 238 minute video in which the name may or may not be said

[Chellee]

48. Only if there's ads that can't be skipped. nt

[JHB]

24. Allen C. Guelzo

There was a caption to the video which could have easily been included, but unhelpfully wasn't.

"Author Allen C. Guelzo joins Morning Joe to discuss his new book "Our Ancient Faith: Lincoln, Democracy, and the American Experiment"."

From Wikipedia:

Allen Carl Guelzo (born 1953) is an American historian who serves as the Thomas W. Smith Distinguished Research Scholar and Director of the Initiative on Politics and Statesmanship in the James Madison Program at Princeton University.[2] He formerly was a professor of History at Gettysburg College.

Also from Wikipedia, about Princeton's James Madison Program:

Conservatism

In 2006, Max Blumenthal wrote in The Nation that the Madison Program is not like the Center for Human Values at Princeton or the Remarque Institute at New York University, but rather serves as "a vehicle for conservative interests." Blumenthal writes that the Madison Program uses "funding from a shadowy, cultlike Catholic group and right-wing foundations" to support right-wing politics at Princeton University, even becoming "the blueprint for the right's strategy to extend and consolidate power within the university system."[5] Similar institutions at Georgetown University, New York University, and Williams College have used the Madison Program as a template for their operations.[18] In 2017, the North Carolina-based think tank NC Policy Watch reported that the James Madison Program is funded and operated by conservative philanthropists and academics to promote conservatism in higher education, and that the University of North Carolina Board of Governors considered the Madison Program a "model."[7]

In 2016, Jane Mayer wrote for The Chronicle of Higher Education noting that the Madison Program was founded with funds from the conservative John M. Olin Foundation and that the program's founding serves as part of a broader strategy for conservative billionaires to infiltrate higher education in the United States.[19] Her piece was cited by Greenpeace as demonstrative of dark money being used to deceptively promote conservative perspectives and downplay the fossil fuel industry's role in climate change.[20]

In 2019, journalist Emma Green wrote in The Atlantic that the James Madison Program serves as a conservative hub for right-wing students and academics within the "largely apolitical or vaguely liberal" politics of the Princeton University community.[4]

In other words, he's a RW operative with a sinecure that labels him a "historian" for PR purposes.

[Midnight Writer]

29. Thank you. Jane Mayer is a treasure trove of information about Dark Money in politics and our society.

She deserves a medal, or, at least, a giant audience.

[niyad]

30. Thank you for that truly enlightening information.

[Grins]

31. "funding from a shadowy, cultlike Catholic group and...

...(the) John M. Olin Foundation."

Of course. And just like the MILLIONS of dollars of Koch money that goes to George Mason University and other Reich-wing colleges.

For one purpose: "...to infiltrate higher education in the United States."

[The Magistrate]

37. Thank You, Sir

I was curious just what pedigree might lay behind such a nonesensical statement.

At the very least, anyone wanting a Lincoln emblematic of party loyalty is going to have to delve deep as Durin into the Whigs. The Republicans were one of the factions left of the Whigs at their collapse, and the one Lincoln felt the most solidly planted still 'on the old Whig ground'. There is reason to suspect Lincoln at least wished to reconstitute the Whigs after the war, once more making of its fragments a single party, under whatever name.

[JHB]

50. You can find the pedigree written on the walls of any dive bar restroom, and written...

...on the paper available there.

This is "conservative is just a RW nut with a suit and tie and a title" grade stuff. They don't just engage in leaps of logic, they make it pole vault, rocket assists, and full on teleportation so they can blink from one cherry-picked factoid to another without ever crossing the intervening space.

[TexasBushwhacker]

49. Well, well, well ...

[brush]

33. I'm with you. Posting videos only, without a summary and a link has become...

to prominent on DU now. Like everyone has time, or wants to watch a video.

[niyad]

34. It is beyond frustrating.

[ProfessorGAC]

42. I Don't Like It Either

The archiving of the "videos" forum might be the cause of the proliferation of videos with little other commentary.

[brush]

43. A mention to the admin should help.

Last edited Mon Feb 19, 2024, 04:19 PM - Edit history (1)

[cachukis]

6. Allen Guelzo

[niyad]

9. who? never heard of this person.

[Fla Dem]

11. It's a holiday they have their 2nd and 3rd stringers on.

[Celerity]

17. I knew it was Allen Guelzo before I saw someone post the name, as he is a RW berk

Why Lincoln Would Probably Vote for Trump in 2024, According to a Historian

https://time.com/6693011/abraham-lincoln-democracy-historian/

Just in time for President’s Weekend and the February 12 birthday of the 16th U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, a new book traces how the Civil War leader talked about democracy throughout his career.

Our Ancient Faith: Lincoln, Democracy, and the American Experiment by Princeton historian Allen Guelzo, out Feb. 6, was written between 2021 and 2023, during a historic period of tumult over the state of U.S. democracy. As he finished the book, the nation was still reeling from the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol designed to block the certification of the Electoral College votes declaring Joe Biden the winner of the 2020 election. Two years later, polls suggest that most Republicans still believe that Biden’s 2020 win was not legitimate.

snip

[niyad]

32. Thank you. I am going to go throw up now.

[The Magistrate]

38. Good Lord, Ma'am

[Celerity]

44. Pope'n ain't easy

[dalton99a]

10. And Lincoln would LOVE the January 6 insurrection - to keep Trump in power

Guelzo is also a senior fellow of the conservative think-tank, the Claremont Institute

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_C._Guelzo

[niyad]

13. That tells me everything I need to know about him. Thank you.

[calimary]

22. It sure does.

[Farmer-Rick]

15. Only in the drug induced dreams

Of a democracy hating MAGAt would Abraham Lincoln ever endorse a man who wants to be a dictator of the United States of America. Lincoln saved the Union and US Constitution. The Stinking Nazi wants to blow up everything Lincoln tried so hard to save.

[johnnyfins]

16. Nothing like using your extensive education

And "acclaim" for your Civil War era scholarship, to completely make an ass out of yourself on tv.

This is deliberate. This guy was sent to msnbc, by the Claremont Institute, to say that Lincoln would have supported Trump. This guy prolly doesnt even believe it. Gotta push back on these lying fuckheads.

[Martin Eden]

18. The Republican Party of Lincoln's time would not have Donnie Dipshit as a candidate

Also, in Nov 2016 seismic tremors were detected in Springfield Illinois. Abraham Lincoln was rolling over in his grave.

[jaxexpat]

19. Yeah, but how would Caligula or Hank Williams vote?

And what about the Comanches. They weren't just plains Indians, after all. They'd probably go with Ghandi and Henry lll, those guys always stuck together. Like Rasputin and Zarathustra, peas in a pod.

[aggiesal]

23. What an idiot. The (R) of the Nixon era would not have supported Pendejo45 ...

why would Lincoln?

[momta]

25. This is ridiculous on its face!

The party wasn't formed until 1851, just nine years before Lincoln was elected president. So whichever party he belonged to before he became a Republican (the Whigs, per Wikipedia), he ditched it to join the new one.

From Wikipedia:

Nationally, the Whigs were irreparably split by the Kansas–Nebraska Act and other efforts to compromise on the slavery issue. Reflecting on the demise of his party, Lincoln wrote in 1855, "I think I am a Whig, but others say there are no Whigs, and that I am an abolitionist. ... I do no more than oppose the extension of slavery."[112] The new Republican Party was formed as a northern party dedicated to antislavery, drawing from the antislavery wing of the Whig Party and combining Free Soil, Liberty, and antislavery Democratic Party members,[113] Lincoln resisted early Republican entreaties, fearing that the new party would become a platform for extreme abolitionists.[114] Lincoln held out hope for rejuvenating the Whigs, though he lamented his party's growing closeness with the nativist Know Nothing movement.[115]

[LonePirate]

26. Lincoln opposed slavery. TFG practices it by not paying his workers and contractors.

Lincoln would not be endorsing him obviously.

[sop]

27. Unknowns like to go on cable tv and say totally outrageous things to boost their name recognition.

The guy just increased his searches by a millionfold.

[pwb]

35. The country does not need this persons opinion.

Locker room talk?

[Polybius]

36. I'm sorry, but I just watched the entire video, and that is a lie

He not not say that he would endorse Trump, he said "I don't know." Yes, he did say that he was a Party loyalist, but so what? That was it. He never once said that he would endorse Trump. You should self-delete.

Video here.

[maxrandb]

39. Wrong! At 3:12 in the video

The hosts say; "you write in your book that, if he were alive today, Lincoln would likely not endorse Joe Biden, but Donald Trump".

They then show a quote from a Time article about this historians book, complete with a smiling Donnie Dipshit photo next to a photo of Abe. The quote is; "Why Lincoln would probably vote for Trump in 2024, According to a Historian".

The guy, of course tries to demur, by saying; "of course, the right answer is, we don't know".

Even that is a fucked up response.

An "Historian" with, probably a PHD, looks at Donnie Dipshits demonstrated, documented and repeated attacks on democracy, and he can't offer a guess on who the President, that described Democracy as "sacred to him as religion", would endorse in 2024?

Bullshit!

[Abolishinist]

52. But one thing we DO know is that Guelzo is an member of the extreme right,

so of course he believes this. Guelzo is a senior fellow of the conservative think-tank, the Claremont Institute.

The institute was an early defender of Donald Trump. After Joe Biden won the 2020 United States presidential election and Trump refused to concede, Claremont Institute senior fellow John Eastman aided Trump in his failed attempts to overturn the election results. The institute publications in recent years have frequently published alt-right and far-right opinion pieces.

According to a 4 November 2021 Vice article, the actions of pro-Trump Claremont Institute leaders—senior fellows John Eastman, Brian Kennedy, Angelo Codevilla, and Michael Anton, as well as Ryan P. Williams (the institute's president), and Thomas D. Klingenstein (chairman of the board)—culminated in the January 6 attack on the Capitol. Williams has stated that the institute's mission "is to save western civilization."

The above from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claremont_Institute

Also interesting: https://paw.princeton.edu/article/politics-history

[Polybius]

53. It was implied that he said it it in the interview

I did not know about the book.

[CTyankee]

41. which MSNBC show was it? And do you remember the historian's name?

The whole idea is so stupid I can't believe it was on MSNBC. Fox, yes.

[live love laugh]

46. NBC, MSNBC, CNN ... tell just enough "truth" to string along

people but they too are Republican/oligarch owned.

[live love laugh]

45. Historian indeed. HIS (propagandist) story.

[Rebl2]

54. What historian

was that.

[maxrandb]

56. He's the Dean of the History Department at Trump University

[mucifer]

57. It was President Lincoln who gave us andrew johnson. But, he might have lost

the election if he didn't have johnson as his VP.

johnson was almost as bad as trump.

I wonder what our country would be like if President Lincoln had time after the civil war.

[maxrandb]

58. More than likely

The former Confederate States would just now, in 2024, be applying for reinstatement to the Union after demonstrating that they had met the standards, NOT dragging the rest of us down with their racist MAGA dipshit politicians.