CNN TV: Report shows evidence of systematic sexual assaults by Hamas

[JohnSJ]

Last edited Thu Feb 22, 2024, 10:56 PM - Edit history (1)

"Numerous testimonies and pieces of disclosed and classified information present a clear picture of identical patterns of action repeated in each of the attack zones - the Nova Festival, private homes in the Gaza envelope kibbutzim, and IDF bases."

These assaults included gang rapes carried out in front of the victims' partners, family, and friends to increase pain and humiliation.

This didn't happen in one spot, but many places, which implies they got instructions to harm, shoot, rape, etc.

This was gathered from personal accounts, witnesses, and video made by Hamas.

You can condemn Israel for its politics and for many things, and you can respect the Palestinian cause, but don't just reject this slaughter and deny it because of politics or an agenda.

The Association of Rape Crisis Centers in Israel.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/middleeast/sexual-crimes-hamas-october-7-israeli-report-intl/index.html

[egduj]

1. I know this is dropping like a rock...

but you have to realize you're competing with an "everything is because of Israel" "genocide" "Israel is no better than Hamas" post.

[JohnSJ]

2. The fact that they cannot even condemn it, including some members of Congress, is a disgrace.

[The Magistrate]

3. Hell, We've Had People Deny It Here, Sir

[getagrip_already]

4. We have trolls and plants among us...

Not sure they are all people. Many are bots.

[yardwork]

11. Unfortunately, people all over the world are denying it.

Things are better here on DU than most other places where this is discussed.

[Hekate]

22. If DU is actually better than the average, I am eternally grateful to be here...

And it has been awfully rough here.

[William769]

33. ...

[lapucelle]

37. ...

[yardwork]

102. I live in an area with several universities and some people have lost their minds.

In the name of "compassion," they are behaving in a startlingly bigoted and unempathetic way. Driven by emotion and propaganda, they've put themselves into frenzies of rage and hysteria.

It's a window into 1930s Germany when "the Jews" were blamed for everything.

[JohnSJ]

6. Anyone who denies civilian deaths and atrocities on ANY side, has a political agenda

t

[TeamProg]

15. Hmmm, so you would agree with the estimimate of near 30, 000 dead Palestinians, mostly women and children?

[NickB79]

19. 30,000 dead, with a substantial portion being Hamas fighters

10,000 per most assessments to date. The Gaza Health Ministry lumps Hamas dead with civilians.

[Diraven]

32. So since Hamas had 40000 members

And our policy is to support Israel's policy of killing every last Hamas member before the war can end, then only 80000 more Palestinian civilians need to die.

[Hekate]

50. Nobody is encouraging that sort of outcome

That is a vile thing to say here

[Diraven]

61. Just doing the math

I'm not advocating this at all. But I have seen several people here on DU post that Israel shouldn't stop their war until every last Hamas member is dead, no matter how many civilians have to die to accomplish this because it's all Hamas' fault anyway.

[Hekate]

62. Have not seen that -- but have seen the flip side from Hamas apologists, altho not too recently

So, doing the math and all, are you just checking to see if it’s time to start again? Just asking.

[SoFlaBro]

74. What a vile and horrible thing to say.

[JohnSJ]

24. I agree Palestinian civilians were killed

[TeamProg]

27. History will not be kind.

[TeamProg]

36. But you deny that nearly 30,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israel's assaults since 10/7.

Got it. You were saying something about people in denial..

History will not be kind.

[The Magistrate]

39. Sometimes I Despair, Sir

War is not some sporting event, where dead people are points, and at some juncture 'enough' have been accumulated so the war ends. But that does seem to be how many guide their understanding of it.

War is the attempt of one party to a dispute to impose by violence what it cannot secure by purchase or reason. It ends when the party first resorting to violence secures its object against the violent objection of the other, or acknowledges its violence has failed to do so, and ceases to fight.

In war one does not so much strive to kill people in order to end their lives, as one kills people to convince other people they'll be next if they don't give up, or flee, or at the very least keep their heads down a while.

It is true that if one party to a war fields a soldiery who actively courts death, killing a good deal more is required than in the average run: such soldieries are not common to history.

It is also obvious that such a death-desiring soldiery, establishing itself in facilities and fighting positions beside, under, or over the dwellings of non-combatants, is going get a great many persons killed in course of war against them, who will suffer for no better reason than that they were in the way of people fighting the men here to fight till they died.

I suppose you might say that is worth it, if you favor the resolution of the dispute they are contending for, certainly no one opposed to it would agree.

If people do take up for a side which fields soldiery of this sort, and disposes them in that manner, they ought at least to be clear about what the goal actually sought by that side is.

That's something a good many people aren't at all clear on....

[TeamProg]

43. Yah no thanks.

History will not be kind.

[TeamProg]

49. Um, you did respond to me though. Those Caps Look So Professional!

History will not be kind.

[The Magistrate]

51. You Provided An Opening For Something I Thought Worth Saying, Dear

Don't expect a cookie.

[SoFlaBro]

76. History will be kind to me.

[Hekate]

91. Your thoughtful reasoning is appreciated, Magistrate

Especially as it is in such short supply

[JohnSJ]

41. I got your number too buddy and where your sympathies lie, and it isn't just

Palestinian civilians

because that is what the OP was about, CIVILIANS, but it seems to only matter to you which side they are on.

Yup, I got your number

[TeamProg]

47. You've got the wrong number, buddy. I have called Hamas' doings as 'atrocities', but myself, and apparently much of the

planet does not see Israel's treatment, occupation and slaughter of Palestinians as justice. That is my point! Oh yeah, and

History will not be kind.

[JohnSJ]

52. That is what this thread is about, but you ignore that in this thread. You want to expand on

the slaughter of Palestinian civilians by Israel, you can start your own thread on that, and I am quite sure you will get ample responses on the Palestinian situation, but the fact you choose to present it in a thread discussing rape victims on October 7th is a not so subtle way of minimizing it.

[SoFlaBro]

77. Brushing the rape and endless Hamas fuckery of killing babies is fucking disgusting.

[Oopsie Daisy]

96. Actually, it's not meant to be "justice". It's meant to be war. It's meant to defeat Hamas *

* and secure the release of hostages. A user called "Magistrate" explained it perfectly above. That was a very eloquent and concise post that intelligent, mature and reasonable people will understand and agree with. I think that everyone here should read it and give it thoughtful consideration.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

98. Many of these deaths are due to Hamas using civilians as human shields

Hamas is using human shields in violation of the rules of war and such tactic is one of the major factors in the death of civilians in Gaza. Lost of any life is tragic but the number of Gazan civilians being killed are due to Hamas' war crimes

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Please understand that I support President Biden's efforts to force Bibi to take steps to protect civilians. There are a large number of American Jews who are not fans of Bibi and there are reports that Bibi encouraged contributions to Hamas and ignored Hamas' threats for political purposes. This is in addition to the Americans who supported the protests of Bibi's efforts to gut the Israeli court system in order to protect Bibi from being tried for a host of crimes.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Bibi is very unpopular in Israel and it is only a matter of time before Bibi is voted out. President Biden has been applying pressure on Bibi and it is only a matter of time before Bibi is gone.

I support efforts to avoid civilian causalities but I recognize that Hamas' use of human shields means that there will be more causalities than one would normally see in such a conflict

[Cha]

109. TY for this, LMPV!

[Hekate]

28. I'm kicking it

[sheshe2]

5. Recommended

Shown Here: Passed House (02/14/2024) This resolution condemns acts of rape and sexual violence as weapons of war, including those acts committed by Hamas on and since October 7, 2023.

One person voted NO!

Rashida Tlaib Blasted Over Hamas Rape Vote:


Michigan Democrat Rashida Tlaib has come under fire on social media after being the only voting member of the House not to back a resolution condemning "rape and sexual violence committed by Hamas" on Wednesday.

Tlaib, the sole Palestinian American in Congress, voted present, meaning neither in favor or opposed, in protest of the resolution not also referencing what she said was "sexual violence and abuse committed by the Israeli forces against Palestinians." In total, 418 representatives backed the motion with no votes against and 12 not voting at all.

https://www.newsweek.com/rashida-tlaib-hamas-sexual-violence-vote-1870247

[KPN]

8. Thank you for posting this.

[vercetti2021]

10. She needs to be primaried

Not just for this shit, but telling people to actively vote against President Biden this coming primary to "send a message" she needs to be sent a message to get behind the party or get lost.

[Cha]

12. Yeah, Tlaib is In Denial.. so she gets others to deny it, too.

It must make them feel better about themselves and to Suppress the Vote against Pres Biden in the MI primary.

Rashida Tlaib Blasted Over Hamas Rape Vote:

Michigan Democrat Rashida Tlaib has come under fire on social media after being the only voting member of the House not to back a resolution condemning "rape and sexual violence committed by Hamas" on Wednesday.

Tlaib, the sole Palestinian American in Congress, voted present, meaning neither in favor or opposed, in protest of the resolution not also referencing what she said was "sexual violence and abuse committed by the Israeli forces against Palestinians." In total, 418 representatives backed the motion with no votes against and 12 not voting at all.


https://www.newsweek.com/rashida-tlaib-hamas-sexual-violence-vote-1870247

Thank you, she

[TeamProg]

14. Voting 'Present' is just that, neither supporting nor opposing. It could be a matter of facts. Either way:

History will not be kind.

[Cha]

23. History WIll NOt BE Kind To those who Suppress the Vote for Pres Biden!

Rashida Tlaib Blasted Over Hamas Rape Vote:

https://www.newsweek.com/rashida-tlaib-hamas-sexual-violence-vote-1870247

[TeamProg]

34. Small potatoes.

[Cha]

40. History Will NOT Be KIND to those Who SUPPRISS the VOTE AGAINST PJB.

Rashida Tlaib Blasted Over Hamas Rape Vote:

https://www.newsweek.com/rashida-tlaib-hamas-sexual-violence-vote-1870247

[TeamProg]

72. Small potatoes. History will not be kind.

[Cha]

73. "Fetterman to Democrats who criticize Biden: "Might as well just get your MAGA hat, because you now are helping Trump."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fetterman-democrats-criticize-biden-might-142355892.html

Sen Fetterman is right.. I respect him helping Pres Biden.. Not those who SUPPRESS the VOTE for PJB.

It's HUGE.. and History Will NOT be Kind to anyone who SUPPRESSES the Democratic VOTE.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218712009#post5

[SoFlaBro]

79. History will not be kind to brushing aside the rape of hundreds of innocent civilians.

[Cha]

86. Rec TY

[JohnSJ]

46. I love these excuses, er justifications about those who won't admit that

rape against victims is a bad thing, because that is what is being defended by some

[Cha]

56. Yeah, it's Crystal CLEAR

JOhn is there a linik for your OP?

Thank You!

[JohnSJ]

63. It was on CNN TV Jake Tapper who was interviewing the head of the organization that helps rape victims. I will

Atty to find a link

[Cha]

64. Thanks! That part is Good to know

in case I want to pass it on anywhere.

Great job of summarizing the interview!

[JohnSJ]

65. Found it

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/middleeast/sexual-crimes-hamas-october-7-israeli-report-intl/index.html

[Cha]

67. Mahalo, John!!

[question everything]

88. Jack Tapper was the first to discuss these horrendous crimes, several months ago

[xmas74]

75. I see threads all over

And wonder how posters believe that history will be kind to rape apologists and those who've chosen to ignore what happened to these women.
It's proof that even so-called progressives do not believe women.

[TexasDem69]

66. You have said you condemn Hamas' atrocities

So I imagine you’ll agree with the points (1) Hamas should immediately surrender and release all hostages (2) Hamas bears full responsibility for the deaths they caused in this war.

[The Magistrate]

70. It Is Odd, Sir

The implacable intransigence of one side is simply taken for granted, something 'we already know', and not 'new information'. These people sound like Sunday show pundits soft-peddling the latest madness spewed in a Trump rally. Yes, Hamas will not stop. Neither will Israel. But Israel's intransigence they do not seem to take for granted, they view it as some aberration to be tamed by public outcry. Again to the Sunday shows, yes, Republicans habitually call Democrats pedophiles, but isn't it divisive for a Democratic Senator to say Trump is a rapist? It's a habit of mind that's common enough, and has roots few engaged in apologia for Hamas will be comfortable with.

For what it boils down to is saying one party to this conflict has moral agency, and one does not. One is responsible for the consequences of what it does, the other is not. Adults have moral agency, children do not. Those without moral agency are lesser than those who have it. By taking it for granted Hamas will continue without regard for the suffering of Gaza's children, and that Israel must halt out of regard for Gaza's children, these people make plain they consider Hamas inferior, by nature incapable of discerning right from wrong, by nature incapable of deciding to act in a way that will ease suffering, suffering advocates of 'Palestinian resistance' claim is evil entire. If one takes the simplistic coding of this usual in the de-colonization line, that it is a conflict between white and colored people, these people find themselves ensconced in one of the odder bastions of white supremacy.

Let's treat Hamas as if it's leaders and killers have moral agency, and do them the courtesy of thinking them capable of discerning the predictable consequences of their actions. How many times have people argued Israel ought to stop because 'it's just playing into the hands of Hamas' by its military actions? And there's some truth to that, but to really grasp that truth, you have to realize that Hamas intends the suffering of Gaza's children, that its leadership feels it will gain political and diplomatic support by the suffering of Gaza's children, and that its intent is to ensure, by deliberate atrocity against Jews, that Israel will inflict that suffering which its leaders intend to profit by. A sort of jiu-jitsu use of an opponent's strength against him.

So what we really have is a situation in which both parties, each implacable as the other, have some stake in the suffering of Gaza's children. One hopes their suffering will bring it sufficient political and diplomatic capital to outweigh its opponent's military advantages. One views their suffering as a necessity of pursuing its objective of liquidating an armed body which will, if left to continue whole, repeat atrocity against its people when opportunity beckons. To call for one side to have a care for the suffering of Gaza's children, and take for granted the other will not, is simply to take sides in the conflict.

And really the only way to choose, at that point, is by which side's goals are more congenial to you. I prefer the continuation of Israel over the fundamentalist theocracy Hamas intends to establish in its stead. I expect some do have another view, and I don't so much ask them to leave go of it as I do to be frank about it.

[sheshe2]

60. Thank you, Cha.

[TeamProg]

29. That is untrue, she voted "present", not "No". Please be accurate with the info you share.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

53. Which is just as good as a no.

You're very transparent here.

[sheshe2]

59. Thank you.

[Cha]

83. Thanks..

[sheshe2]

54. Voting present is the same as voting no, IMHO.

It wasn't just rape, it was gang rape and it was mutilation. They celebrated it by displaying their bodies as trophies. It took forensic specialists weeks to put together enough pieces to identify some of the victims.

She has made her stance perfectly clear with her continued rhetoric.

If she won't condemn it then she is condoning it and that, TeamProg, is morally wrong.

[SoFlaBro]

80. She didn't vote yes to condemn the rape and mutilation then there are some here trying to fucking justify that ugly vote

[Elessar Zappa]

7. Terrible.

And I’ve seen a few people here make excuses for this abhorrent behavior.

[TheKentuckian]

9. That is just tempering the adulation and celebration

for the audience at hand.

They actually LOVE IT.

[Hekate]

25. I actually cannot figure out the thrust of your comment. Care to parse it a bit?

[TheKentuckian]

31. The excuses for the barbarians and handwaiving their vile shit are just cover for cheerleading their actions

the responses simply tailored for readers as to project humanity where it is absent.

[Hekate]

35. Yes, thank you

[TeamProg]

30. Excuses for it? Huh? Where? Please elaborate.

[Diraven]

38. Any pushback on using this as justification

for Israel to kill as many Palestinian civilians as they want, is interpreted by some here as excusing Hamas rapists.

[TeamProg]

42. AFTER the fact? That makes no sense, I'm sorry but I haven't seen that nor do I believe your claim. Further,

So the logic is, for example, 'It's okay that I slightly dented your car because you took me to court and sued me for a million dollars."

That kind of logic? Who the F does that?

[xmas74]

82. Not just here

But all over social media, especially from so-called "progressive" women and men. The denials of sexual assault, the denials of any deaths outside of uniformed IDF,the claims of false flag,etc.
I see it every day and it's getting worse.

SA survivors have said that after seeing comments about the victims of the attack that it's obvious that many still refuse to believe women.

[TeamProg]

13. What is numerous? And this is odd, on "IDF bases." Hamas was committing atrocities on IDF bases?

AND what does the below statement mean or refer to , it seems contrary to the context of this post.

"You can condemn Israel for its politics and for many things, and you can respect the Palestinian cause, but don't just reject this slaughter and deny it because of politics or an agenda. "

The slaughter that Israel is waging on Palestiains?

[NickB79]

16. On Oct 7, Hamas attacked several IDF bases close to the border

It wasn't just civilians, though they did compromise the bulk of the dead. Female IDF soldiers were raped and killed that night.

[Hekate]

26. I hope that is clear enough

[NoRethugFriends]

84. Not clear enough for that one

[betsuni]

17. K&R

[Cha]

18. NOTHNG Justifies "These assaults included gang rapes carried out in front of the victims' partners, family, and friends

I hope that's Fucking Clear.

Do you have a link, please?

[JohnSJ]

48. Well said

[Cha]

57. Thank you!

[William769]

20. Thank you for this.

[Hekate]

21. KnR

[Torchlight]

44. That this actually happens in the 21st century is something I just can't wrap my head around.

On an academic level, I get that it still happens all over the world, but on a personal, more visceral level, it's just something that flies beyond my ability to comprehend.

Rape as a weapon of war in the 21st century. Rape as a political tool in the 21st century. Rape as social repression in the 21st century. Rape minimized and trivialized by the "butwhatabouts?" It seems unreal, but I know it's not.

[jimfields33]

58. Wow!

[TexasDem69]

69. Agree, it's incomprehensible

And to think that there are individuals on DU who continue to excuse Hamas’ actions, or blame Israel for responding.

[question everything]

89. Rape has been used in wars since forever, and too many, feminists, tried to dismiss it as just

But the horrors of these attacks defy descriptions

Accounts of Sexual Violence by Hamas Are Aired Amid Criticism of U.N. - NYT (Gaphic)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016369701

First Hamas fighters raped her. Then they shot her in the head - graphic

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016369691

[Hekate]

92. Rape's part of the trained-in toolkit of the Russian Army, & how they announced themselves in Ukraine

There were reports from the front 2 years ago — then someone here linked to an investigative report from several years prior about how Russian Army recruits are brutalized into inhumanity themselves.

Back when Yugoslavia broke apart, widespread rape was a tool of war on both sides. It makes women outcasts in traditional cultures, and so often they do become pregnant — with no abortion available.

[redqueen]

100. I guess you missed the news about women in Ethiopia

Most of the world seemed to miss it, to be fair.

[Torchlight]

103. My brain is aware it's happening worldwide.

My brain knows it's happened throughout history, is happening throughout the world, and (all things being equal) will continue to happen in the days to come.

It's just that I, on a personal, more visceral level, have a difficult time imagning anything on this scale, of this scope, and to this degree can still happen anywhere in our quote-unquote civilized world.

[redqueen]

104. That's the error in your logic

Thinking that the world is civilized

[Iggo]

55. And that's a war crime.

[Oneironaut]

68. Shocking, I tell you. /s

This is your brain on radical Islam

[marble falls]

71. Was the murder of 30,000 Palestinian also 'systematic'?

[Bad Thoughts]

78. War is not Murder

Perhaps you wish to advocate for peace (please do), but it is reckless to call one the other. War is a legitimate tool for a state to address its security problems, and anyone who wants peace should be willing to help Israel address those concerns in other ways, starting with securing the release of hostagew.

[SoFlaBro]

81. "Murder"? Just because people, even civilians died, doesn't make it murder. Do I need to grab a dictionary for you?

[Cha]

85. It's WAR & your trying to Distract from the HORROR o the OP is NOT WORKING

These assaults included gang rapes carried out in front of the victims' partners, family, and friends to increase pain and humiliation.

[Oopsie Daisy]

97. As I read through these replies, there are some folks for whom my respect and admiration grows *

* and for others, it is drastically diminished. It's not as though I'm not surprised that such a thing happens. After all, that's the nature of political discourse. But, sometimes it's a surprise to see which users earns the biggest change in the level of my esteem.

"That is all."

[Arazi]

87. K&R

This conflict is a never ending horror.

Im going to regret posting on the other thread tonight but I can’t hit that one and let this one go by.

Thanks for bringing this

[sarisataka]

90. Some folks have trouble believing this

because the eye-witnesses were Jews. For some reason that makes their testimony suspect. They need "proof". The physical evidence and video is simply ignored so as to justify the denial of the crimes

It seems the more evidence presented, the more denial of Hamas atrocities spreads. We have even seen in city council meetings the Holocaust is being denied which somehow "proves" the events of October 7 did not happen.

[SoFlaBro]

93. I've seen it posted on here that since they didn't see it that it isn't confirmed. "30000 dead!" is their only reply.

[RandySF]

94. If you want to be one of the cool kids, you gotta cheer for Hamas.

[ripcord]

95. I'm still waiting for some ideas on dealing with Hamas

So far the only suggestions I hear are for Israel to grant a cease fire that Hamas will break when they are ready and Israel is just supposed to wait for the next terror attack Hamas has already threatened. After decades of Palestinian terror attacks Israel is done, their first responsibility is to protect Israelis and it has been impossible to do since the idiots at the UN put pressure on Israel to allow the people who are calling and working towards their deaths to live next door, one of the most stupid things the UN has done.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

99. The hostages need to be returned

Link to tweet

[nocoincidences]

105. This is the last picture we have of Naama.

It was taken by Hamas to brag to the world about what they had done. What do you think her bloody crotch means?

[sarisataka]

106. Deniers need "proof"

These photos, eyewitness accounts and forensic evidence is not sufficient.

#metoounlessyouareajew

[redqueen]

101. It is heartbreaking that this has become necessary

To 'prove' that rape was used as a weapon of war.

How is it possible that anyone questions this? Why would anyone question it? Who is paying for all the pro Hamas propaganda on social media that is influencing naive, gullible teens?

Really hard not to fall into despair.

[Arazi]

107. It's Jews and they deserve it. It was just "resistance"

The propaganda has been very effective. Useful idiots falling into the spin zone.

I’m truly worried about Biden’s re-election. The cracks in the Dem party are growing wider as the Kremlin’s discovered a potent wedge, just as we need to unite. It’s happening here as well and I’m afraid some of these rifts are permanent. I’m never going to be able to overcome my revulsion at the sickening embrace of antisemitism

[redqueen]

110. You have to

I agree that the effect of the current brand of disinformation and propaganda presents a danger to Biden - and thus to our chances of avoiding becoming a dictatorship.

But it is just that danger that means that all rational people must look past our differences and vote the rational way. We don't have to be friends, but we have to stay united against fascism and theocracy.

[electric_blue68]

108. Those were hideious, heneious actions by Hamas...

(also the straight out murder, and kidnapping)

Those poor women! The physical pain, and psychological, and emotional shock.

And I do believe Netanyahu had gone over the top with this war, as well.
Yes, I know it's really complicated bc Hamas hides among civilians.
They still could have done/can do better, imho. How much? Idk. I'd have to delve more in depth, and I'm not up for that right now.

[rollin74]

111. K & R