Some intolerant members of our church really pissed off the pastor

[ripcord]

I know this post won't be for everyone so I am just asking for a little respect.Some of you may know the Methodist church is going through a schism, the reason is because many members want to support alternative lifestyles which includes gay marriage and ordination of LGBTQ pastors. There are others who are very intolerant, vocal and can be extremely crude in expressing their views. To show where our church stands the leaders hired a married, gay choir director and that really sent the haters off. Our pastor sent out an email today calling out those people and their offensive hate speech even going so far as saying if the intolerant comments keep up he will do the one thing he never thought he would have to do and recommend expulsion of church members. He also says they don't have to approve of people's lifestyle but they do have to be polite and reminded them that whatever others were doing was between them and God so it was no one else's business. He closed with a meme I really thought go his message across.

[GreenWave]

1. Very powerful message!

[Delphinus]

2. Good for him!

Thank you for sharing this.

[ret5hd]

3. i used that "line" on my very catholic MIL...

she dropped the subject.

no, i wasn’t being mean. From very first meeting me, she ALWAYS treated me with respect and later love. I could not have asked for a better MIL.

But she was very…uhhhmmm…bigoted.

[AllaN01Bear]

16. love thy neighbor tends to confound them. so does not reacting to them.

[DFW]

23. My M-I-L is very Catholic, too

She is from a part of the world where Catholics and Protestants fought wars over religion for centuries on end. As a child, my wife went to school with kids of both religions who were told not to play with kids of the "wrong" religion. For some people, the year 1630 wasn't that long ago. My wife's parents were the opposite. Both lost siblings in World War II, and my father-in-law left a leg in Stalingrad at age 18 (he was drafted off his farm at age 17).

They had been mostly OK with my wife's boyfriends, but were very apprehensive about meeting me. A foreigner who spoke another language, was not even Christian, and from a different continent altogether!

But for all their conservative (English definition, not Foxese or Republicanese definition) ways, they were true liberals (again, English definition)--open to new things, and tolerant when confronted with them. They accepted me right away, and were delighted that I spoke German, since, except for Pladdütsch, that is all they understood. They also accepted that their daughter and I lived together for years before getting married, and even then, it was in a "neutral ground" Unitarian church in far-off America. My brother and I had a double wedding, and his wife is a Shinto Buddhist, but also with tolerant parents who spoke no English. They seemed very tolerant as well, although my Japanese was never good enough to find out. For my parents-in-law, the most important factor was that their daughter seemed happier with me than she had been with any former boyfriend, and that was the most important thing to them. Religion can never replace that, and they knew it.

[NoRethugFriends]

4. I would say less worrying about the invisible cloud being liking us, and more..

talk of just doing the right thing because it's the right thing.

[ShazzieB]

17. But for those who value the opinion of the invisible cloud being, this approach could be effective with some of them.

"Some" being the operative term, of course.

Btw, I kind of like your terminology. "Invisible cloud being" sounds a lot less snarky and more respectful to me than some of the other terms I've seen used, like "sky daddy."

Personally, I believe in the existence of some sort of higher power, but I definitely do not believe in a sky daddy!

[yellowdogintexas]

5. Good for your pastor!!! So far we have had none of that in my church

We are definitely staying with The United Methodist Church; we did not even call a congregational vote.

Hopefully all of this will be settled at General Conference.

[summer_in_TX]

11. We too have had no need to vote and are definitely staying with The United Methodist Church.

If so many of those on the other side of the divide had not left our church because we were probably the last to open after shutting down during the pandemic, it might not have been so easy.

They were mad at our then-pastor about a number of other issues too. He prayed at a student gathering of high school students protesting George Floyd's death, and after a black family of tourists had a racial incident that caused them to cut short their visit, our church signed onto a Black Lives Matter ad in the local newspaper. One insisted BLM was a socialist organization. We looked up one day and realized the ones who would have tried to block us on the issue of being fully inclusive, ordaining and marrying LGBTQ+ people. had all left. We miss friends but are thankful we can move forward with doing the right thing.

[SlimJimmy]

24. We have already had a vote, changed the name of our church and will be leaving the UMC.

We're still deciding if we'll remain members since we've been there so long. Don't be mad at me, I'm old and not all that amenable to change in my life, even though we're leaning toward finding a new church. Being on the wrong side of the vote was disappointing, though.

[ripcord]

28. We are getting a number of people who's church have left

It is tough when you have become part of something then it totally changes, good luck.

[Random Boomer]

40. I imagine you're not the only ones

Any closet gays in your congregation are going to be pretty disappointed, too. (I'm assuming if there were any out gay people, they've left by now.)

[H2O Man]

6. Recommended.

When my daughters were young, they attended a local church with a similar divide. I only went when the girls asked me to, which was not often. Against the wishes of a small group, I did the work to get the building listed on the state and national register of historic places. When I went to a few meetings at the church, those people insisted I wear a guest name tag, despite knowing me for 50+ years.

[JoseBalow]

8. I'm bad with names too sometimes after 50 years

[H2O Man]

19. I suspect that

a couple of them called me bad names!

[Celerity]

20. wth!

When I went to a few meetings at the church, those people insisted I wear a guest name tag, despite knowing me for 50+ years.

What the fuck is wrong with those people? Just madness that they forced you to do that.

[H2O Man]

29. I humored them.

The last time I attended mass there, it was because my 9-year old daughter asked me to. It was near Easter. During the sermon, my daughter kept raising her hand. The pastor tried to ignore her, but eventually called on her. My daughter stood up and said, "Um, I don't think that we all really understand what Jesus was saying. If we did, there wouldn't be kids in my school that go to bed hungry, or who have to wear tattered clothes to school." (We are from a small hamlet.)

After the service ended, to gentlemen starting arguing. Loudly enough that children began crying. Since no one else seemed to want to get involved, I walked over. The pair attempted to ignore me, but unlike my daughter, I didn't just raise my hand. Stepping between them, in a loud voice, I asked, "What do you have when a wise man argues with a fool?" Both of them gave me ugly looks, but had no answer, so I said, "Two fools," and walked away.

When I walked outside, an elderly gentleman quietly said, "You know you have a special daughter there. Lots of responsibility raising such a child."

Being a local historian, I knew that since being built in 1804, the congregation of that little church had split about every twenty years. Hence the township was known for its many churches. This one folded a few years after my experiences there. Today, the historical society owns it, and it is a nice museum and community center.

[Hekate]

7. Recommended and thank you for sharing. Your pastor is one of the good ones, and I'll remember him...

…the next time “the Evangelicals” get in the news for trying to make the US into a theocracy.

Love your neighbor as yourself — so easy to recite, so hard to live.

[marble falls]

9. Our church just broke away. Very disappointed.

[Celerity]

21. Hopefully you can find a new one that is actually following the doctrine of love and tolerance.

Lycka till! (good luck in Swedish)

[marble falls]

25. We interviewed three local churches, two Lutheran, one Presbyterian ...

... All three are open and accepting of all. Surprised us, this being rural Texas and all.

We have a friend at the church whose daughter is gay. She told us she prayed very hard for G*D to change that daughter, and what she discovered was G*D changed her instead. We are here to judge no one's but our own hearts.

Nothing called "gay rights" interferes with a single one of my rights. Cutting people out of our churches is nothing like the inclusiveness Christ taught.

We don't have to like anyone, but we are taught and told over and over to love everyone, a simple thing that eludes too many of us.

[AverageOldGuy]

10. In my rural Virginia county . . .

. . . there are ten small (and getting smaller) United Methodist churches.

At the urging of a Super MAGAt asshole in one of the churches, five have disaffiliated with the United Methodist Church. All five have painted out the "United" on the signs in front of their churches and are proud of it.

All five have seen their congregations shrink while the rest of us have picked up their members.

Pre-COVID our pastor gave us a detailed briefing on what was going on the the greater UMC and what our choices would be -- stick with the UMC and welcome everyone, go with the "conservatives," or form our own congregation. We all shrugged, thanked her, and went off to our volunteer jobs at the food bank, homeless shelter, and mental health crisis hotline.

[Karadeniz]

12. Dont hide your light under a basket. The nature of ones soul is what counts, not

the outer covering. Do they rely on Hebrew law? Jesus and James didn't. Both mention keeping the law down to its last iota, so they're talking about the same law...that law is explained in the parable right after the sermon on the mount about a sinner (soul) going thru the legal system (those legalists represent the archons Paul mentions, lesser dieties) and ending up in prison (the human body) until his debt is paid off. This is the law of karma. Also, jesus said the wine of his teachings couldn't be contained in the OT wineskin. There's no reason to look to the OT for guidance. All the answers can be found or inferred in the gospels.... well, if one understands the parable messages. Even without that knowledge, a Christian must strive for love and inclusion. Jesus makes it clear that for acceptance by him, the soul must strive to eliminate all hate and judgmentalness.

[PatrickforB]

30. I like the esoteric tenor of your post. So many have died as a result of exoteric Christianity (and other religions)

it isn't even funny. The hair-splitters who will kill you over a minor section of scripture, taken literally, have hurt us all.

But that is not God's fault. The fault lies solely with our species.

I wonder if you have read Yogananda's magnificent Second Coming of Christ? It is literally life changing because he speaks of the esoteric meaning of the Sermon on the Mount, parables and other passages. Very, very good. The leader of my local Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) group read it and has made some changes in our practice because of it.

Plus, if you are interested in the intersection of hard science and human intent - in other words, can human intent affect materials, there is a really excellent book written by an MD named Nisha Manek. It is called Bridging Science and Spirit, and elaborates on the work of giants like William Tiller, Masaru Emoto and David Hawkins. Great stuff.

Warm regards!

[Karadeniz]

35. Thanks for the suggestions !!!

[fierywoman]

13. As a lapsed Methodist, it's good to hear of your pastor.

The pastor I went through my confirmation with (early 1960's) was your kind of pastor -- he gave a sermon on Mother's Day about the need to be supportive and loving to unwed mothers. He was replaced by that other kind of Methodist, whereupon I, around age 15, left. I did love going to that church -- it was the oldest Methodist church on Long Island: late 18th century, I still remember the little rectangles of hand blown pale pastel glass in the windows.

[Aristus]

34. Fellow lapsed Methodist here.

Back when I still attended church, the church I belonged to was pretty apolitical, but had a vaguely liberal vibe. The Methodist church my sister attends is very liberal, their pastor is a lesbian, and they've had a number of "pride" services in support of their LGBTQ congregants.

But I don't like seeing haters try to ruin what was once an admirable spiritual movement.

[AllaN01Bear]

14. ding . love thy neighbor . no exceptions !!!!!!. your pastor does the walk.

[AllaN01Bear]

15. time for renewlal of baptismal vows too also.

[RainCaster]

18. I've been there, too

I married into the UMC 44 years ago. Eventually helped to found a new church in my community where I was the lay leader for it's first nine years. Every summer, the Annual Conference would spend 90% of the time talking about love vs "justice". Then we would agree to close another 1-3 churches in our area with no discussion about how this message of purity & justice has made our churches no longer relevant in their communities. The conservative agenda has rolled over Jesus' message of love in the UMC.

I'm now Presbyterian - similar doctrine, but more love.

So sorry to hear that is happening in other parts of the country. Stay strong.

[JudyM]

22. That's some inspiration, right there.

Thanks for sharing. It’s encouraging!

[Joinfortmill]

26. Good for your pastor!

[NoMoreRepugs]

27. Now that's taking names and kicking butt. Kudos.

That is one great descriptive meme of the Religious Right in America.

[kimbutgar]

31. My Mother in laws attends a Lutheran church in Sun City West Arizona and the choir director was a gay man and the newer

Members asked he be dismissed instead the minister suggested they find another church. I always attend services at her church when I visit there because it’s so progressive!

[gopiscrap]

32. good for your pastor

I spent about 15 years working in the UMC from choir director to Certified Lay Minister to Co-Pastor in the conference I was in for first 12 years at annual conference there was alway a huge fight on ordaining lgbtq pastors. The final yar I was in charge of the Church and Society board of the conference, the haters figured out they lost on that question and there was no issue brought up about it. But the hatrers being haters found a new issue to gripe about: being able to bring your guns into church.

[BaronChocula]

33. Thank you for posting and for being human

I would just add that homosexuality isn't a lifestyle. It's just life.

[Duppers]

49. Well said.

[chouchou]

36. I certainly agree with everything you said and want your church said.

Love thy neighbor.

[Clash City Rocker]

37. Good for your pastor

The Bible wasn’t written so we could use it to judge others. We’re supposed to apply it to our own lives.

When anyone complains about the sins of others, I ask them what sins they are struggling with. Usually they can’t, or won’t, name a single one.

The intolerant people in your church resemble Pharisees more than they resemble Jesus. Oh, and I’m stealing that meme. Just confessing it now.

[Demovictory9]

38. Love that meme

[SleeplessinSoCal]

39. My church choir has a straight director,

...who was hired by two married gay priests. A pastor & assistant pastor. They aren't married to each other. But individually chose younger Hispanic partners. The choir has two gay members. One of them is an ordained priest. Long live the Episcopal Church!

We are pretty reflective of most churches, who hide their sexual preferences behind closed doors. As has been the norm for centuries. The church has been where gay folks went to live their lives away from society.

In my 19th year I was confirmed as an Episcopalian. Then after singing in churches in London, I was turned off by the flamboyance of the officiants. I was young and still being formed. Now there's no flamboyance in this church, but without the convictions of these gay Christians there would be no choir or congregation either.

[Marcuse]

41. My local church and 85% of my AC is staying inclusive and welcoming. The rest left with the Bishop.

[appleannie1]

42. Good for your pastor.

[Duncanpup]

43. Intense Ripcord

Best wishes for the congregation and pastor.

[Evolve Dammit]

44. Putin must be giddy watching even religious institutions fractured in the US.

[calimary]

45. MAN, what a GREAT message! WORLD-CLASS.

Really boils it down to its most basic.

[limbicnuminousity]

46. That is so wonderfully different from the fire and brimstone

of Southern Baptism. Good message.

[spanone]

47. K&R

[Layzeebeaver]

48. the evolution of religious belief is about 2000 to 4000 years behind scientific discovery

this is across all religions. HOWEVER...

If in the near future religion can improve tolerance, akin to what science has added to understanding, then we will be a transcendent society.

you can quote me on that.