Israel plans to build 3,300 new settlement homes. It says it's a response to a Palestinian attack

[David__77]

JERUSALEM -- Israel plans to build more than 3,300 new homes in settlements in the Israeli-occupied West Bank in response to a fatal Palestinian shooting attack, a senior Cabinet minister said. The decision is bound to frustrate Washington at a time of growing tensions over the course of Israel's war on Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

Israel's finance minister, far-right firebrand Bezalel Smotrich, announced the new settlement plans late Thursday, after three Palestinian gunmen opened fire on cars near the Maale Adumim settlement, killing one Israeli and wounding five.

…

“Instead of acting in order to prevent future horrible attacks such as of yesterday, the government of Israel is acting to deepen the conflict and the tensions,” said Hagit Ofran, from Israeli settlement watchdog group Peace Now.

…

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/wireStory/israel-plans-build-3300-new-settlement-homes-response-107484561

[Autumn]

1. I would read the article to see who they are building those 3,300 new settlement homes for but I know

who without reading past the first line.

[RAB910]

2. More war crimes for Israel who clearly doesn't want to "just live in peace"

[David__77]

3. The US should not be supporting or shielding an ethnic cleansing agenda.

[Mosby]

14. How is building apartments and houses ethnic cleansing?

As a progressive, you're OK with only Muslims living in Palestine? No Jews allowed?

Because that's the underlying assumption, that no Jews will be allowed to live in Palestine, like most all Muslim countries. I don't understand that.

[David__77]

18. link

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

[Mosby]

20. HRW is extremely biased against Israel.

They want Israel to be subsumed into another Arab Muslim country.

Just read the conclusions at your link.

It's fucked up.

[Voltaire2]

27. Uh no, that is not their recommendation.

These are their recommendations with respect to Israel:

The Israeli government should dismantle all forms of systematic domination and oppression that privilege Jewish Israelis and systematically repress Palestinians, and end the persecution of Palestinians. In particular, authorities should end discriminatory policies and practices with regards to citizenship and residency rights, civil rights, freedom of movement, allocation of land and resources, access to water, electricity, and other services, and granting of building permits.

The findings that the crimes of apartheid and persecution are being committed do not deny the reality of Israeli occupation or erase Israel’s obligations under the law of occupation, any more than would a finding that other crimes against humanity or war crimes have been carried out. As such, Israeli authorities should cease building settlements and dismantle existing ones and otherwise provide Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza with full respect of their human rights, using as a benchmark the rights that it grants Israeli citizens, as well as the protections that international humanitarian law grants them.

The Palestinian Authority (PA) should end forms of security coordination with the Israeli army that contribute to facilitating the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution.

[Mosby]

29. You skipped over almost all of their recommendations for Israel

Quick summary, they want Palestine to have a completely open border with Israel, whether from the WB or Gaza. They want Israel to remove the security fence completely, just in case they get any ideas about border control. The want Israel to change their citizenship laws (lol), and they want Israel to:

Recognize and honor the right of Palestinians who fled or were expelled from their homes in 1948 and their descendants to enter Israel and reside in the areas where they or their families once lived, as Human Rights Watch has outlined in a separate policy, which also outlines the options of integration in place or in the OPT and resettlement elsewhere.[866]

That's 5.9 million Palestinians who they think should have Israeli citizenship and homes in Israel. If recent events are any indication, pretty sure they won't be resettling in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan or Egypt. Add to this 5.5 million Palestinians in the WB and Gaza, and you have Palestine from "the river to the sea". That's what HRW wants, and more to the point, what their patrons want.

It's antisemitic garbage.

[David__77]

32. True, their foremost concern is not "racial integrity".

[Voltaire2]

36. So in summary, if all Palestinians under Israeli

governmental control had the same rights as Israeli citizens, they could control the government. Hmmm, I’m pretty sure white South African apartheid supporters were making the same argument for why non-whites should not have equal rights.

[NickB79]

39. The difference being, the ANC never said they wanted to genocide the white Afrikaners

Whereas Hamas, the defacto government of Palestine, has made it their primary mission statement.

The Middle East is filled with nations that once had thriving Jewish communities, only to see them destroyed. It doesn't take a genius to see what the end result would be in Israel.

[Voltaire2]

40. There are always justifications.

The apartheid supporters also claimed that majority rule would result in their eradication. The oppressor frequently portrays their oppression as justified by their potential or historical victimization.

But as long as we agree that the current Israel is a nation with systematic and intentional discrimination against Palestinians, then we are at least discussing the real situation rather than some ideological delusion of an Israeli society.

[NickB79]

42. In this case, Hamas has openly called for the genocide of the Jews

They made it central to their existence as a political party. And after they killed 1200 of them, they said they'd do it again if given the chance. Hamas is not interested in a power-sharing, peaceful coexistence with their Jewish counterparts, sadly.

We don't have to speculate on whether or not there would be an eradication if they and their supporters gained more power. It's blazingly obvious at this point. It's a discussion you are obviously trying to avoid at all costs, though.

[The Magistrate]

43. Most Of This, Sir, Depends On A 'Get Out Of Context Free' Card

There is a centuries old record of Muslim rule over religious minorities. It does no good, as I'm sure someone will be moved to, to say they did better in some ways than Medieval Europe: that's not just a low bar, but a subterranean one.

Muslim lands are Muslim by conquest, religious minorities in them are the survivors of those who were overrun, and kept to their ancestral faiths. They were, and still are, in a pinch, very much second-class citizens in majority Muslim countries. Past performance, as they say, is the best predictor of future behavior.


"This pretense of not knowing what any idiot knows has come to dominate our political discourse."

[Voltaire2]

47. The muslim conquest of Roman palestine was 636CE.

The official incorporation of the former Jewish state into the Roman empire occurred around 44 CE. To put it mildly, this is ancient history. The region has been vastly majority muslim for about 1600 years. Oops 1300.

Meanwhile perhaps we ought to hold nations to higher standards than 'might makes right'?

In fact we do. We have clear international rules for behavior in wars, clear international rules for the treatment of prisoners of war, for the treatment of civilians under military occupation, and for what constitutes crimes against humanity. Maybe that is what we ought to use to evaluate the behavior of the Israeli state, rather than what the Umayyad dynasty did 1600 years ago?

[The Magistrate]

48. Conquest Is Conquest, Sir, And I Will Pass Over Your Poor Arithmetic --- We Are Not In The Twenty-Third Century

All you have done is establish the duration of time through which Muslims lorded it over the various dhimmi populations here, Christian and Jew alike. Most of the Muslim population today are descended from converts in the wake of conquest, it's not like Arab believers displaced the populace, or killed it off. Conversion brought benefits, and was easy, once you got over the fear of Hellfire if you did. The point of recollecting the past is enlightenment of the present, in this case to illustrate the deep roots of Muslim feelings of superiority and entitlement. Religious minorities still suffer bouts of abuse in Muslim-majority countries. You might want to look into the matter of Coptic Christians in Egypt for a nearby, contemporary illustration.


It may be ancient history to you, but this region has a peculiar attachment to the past, otherwise who would give a fig for Jerusalem? One thing which emerges from study of the past is how little people have changed, how persistent are the ways in which we behave and think. Same tune, different key, so to speak. I am not, here, commenting on the means and methods of Israel's government, whether at present, or in the past, or in a future to come. Merely pointing out that existence as a religious minority in a Muslim-majority country is something to be avoided. It's not pleasant. A lot of what is urged on Israel, regarding citizenship and title, amounts to reducing Jews to a minority population there.

[Zeitghost]

56. The problem with that example

Is they were never Israeli citizens to begin with.

The Palestinians within Israel are citizens and enjoy the full rights of an Israeli citizen.

The Jordanian citizens who live in the West Bank were abandoned by Jordan and stripped of citizenship. But that does not make them Israeli.

[The Magistrate]

38. One Hates To Say It, Sir

But any state of Arab Palestine will have to be Judenrein. Any Jewish enclave within its borders would be a standing invitation to vengeance on the one hand and rescue on the other: someone will break under the strain, and war will result. It's not a pleasant thing to realize, but contemptuous hate for Jews, and resolve to drive out Jews from Muslim lands, or reduce them to their prior subjugation there, is the root of Palestinian nationalism, clear from the first pogroms after the Great War, and continued to the present day. I understand why people do not wish to face this.


"Reality is that which, when you cease to credit it, persists."

[multigraincracker]

5. Not that long ago they were called

Illegal Settlements.

[enid602]

6. Settler

If I were a settler, I’d hold out a little longer, until the waterfront units come on line.

[Lunabell]

7. This is why bibi let the attack happen in October.

He needed an excuse to take more land.

[Zeitghost]

9. What land is being taken?

These are being built on land Israel controls in the West Bank as part of the Oslo accords.

[Lunabell]

10. Hmm

[David__77]

11. Nothing in the Oslo accords legalizes existing or new settlements.

[Zeitghost]

12. Oslo gives control of some parts of the West Bank

To Israel and some to the Palestinians. These settlements are not being built on Palestinian land, hence, no land is being taken. It was already under Israeli control.

[Mosby]

15. All the new housing units are being built in existing settlements.

So no land is being taken, and the two settlement blocs in question are always included in the land swap part of the negotiations like at Camp David and Taba.

[Gaugamela]

16. You're kidding, right?

Israel’s Settlements Have No Legal Validity, Constitute Flagrant Violation of International Law, Security Council Reaffirms
12/23/2016
https://press.un.org/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

The West Bank remains central to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The Palestinians consider it the heart of their envisioned state, along with the Gaza Strip. Right-wing and religious Israelis see it as their ancestral homeland, with numerous biblical sites. There is a push among some Israelis for partial or complete annexation of this land. Additionally, it is home to a rising number of Israeli settlers. Area C contains 230 Israeli settlements into which Israeli law is applied and under the Oslo Accords was supposed to be mostly transferred to the PNA by 1997, but this did not occur. The international community considers Israeli settlements in the West Bank to be illegal under international law. Citing the 1980 law in which Israel claimed Jerusalem as its capital, the 1994 Israel–Jordan peace treaty, and the Oslo Accords, a 2004 advisory ruling by the International Court of Justice concluded that the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, remain Israeli-occupied territory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

“Israeli-occupied territory” means Israel does not own it.

[Zeitghost]

17. Not at all

No additional land is being taken. Full stop.

I understand that doesn't make the "River to the Sea" crowd happy. But then Israel's mere existence is enough to piss them off.

[Gaugamela]

19. So they're doubling down on their illegal occupation of land that doesn't belong to them.

Full stop.

[Mosby]

22. The land doesn't belong to anyone.

The Palestinians rejected partition. It's disputed land, that was controlled by the British and before by the Ottomans.

[Gaugamela]

23. "The international community considers Israeli settlements in the West Bank to be illegal under international law."

Area C contains 230 Israeli settlements into which Israeli law is applied and under the Oslo Accords was supposed to be mostly transferred to the PNA by 1997, but this did not occur. The international community considers Israeli settlements in the West Bank to be illegal under international law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank

[Zeitghost]

57. It is Israeli Land

It was taken by Israel when they were attacked by Jordan. Jordan then refused to take it back at the end of hostilities.

In any other situation like that in the history of nation states on this planet it would have never been questioned. But for some reason, Jews are held to a different standard, especially by Muslims who want to eradicate them.

[Chainfire]

52. It is called the "Occupied" West Bank for a reason. It is not Israel's land any more than Poland was Germany's.

Gaza will get the same treatment. Wait for it.

[Zeitghost]

55. The West Bank

Was taken from Jordan after Jordan declared war and attacked Israel. Jordan has refused to take it back and has stripped citizenship from the Jordanian citizens that live there.

Israel was given official control of portions of it in the Oslo accords.

No land is being taken that wasn't already offered back to those it was taken from.

[lapucelle]

65. For context

[lapucelle]

66. Jordan occupied and then annexed the West Bank as a result of the 1948 war against Israel.

It also imposed Jordanian citizenship on anyone living there, including all Palestinians.

Israel occupied the land after Jordan lost control of it in the 1967 war.

The current administration of the West Bank (with the exception of Jerusalem) is recognized by the witness parties to the 1995 Oslo II Accord: the PLO, Israel, the United States, Russia, Egypt, Jordan, Norway, and the EU.

As for Jerusalem, the US recognizes Israeli governing authority of East Jerusalem.

It is the UN (not Palestinians) that claims sovereignty of both East and West Jerusalem as an international city.

[Mosby]

21. Thats nonsense

Conspiracy theories like this are rooted in antisemitism.

Please stop demonizing Jews.

[Lunabell]

28. Nope.

Criticizing Israel and Netenyahu does not equal antisemitism. That's just absurd.

And furthermore, he knew about the attack according to many reliable sources.

[former9thward]

33. What "reliable sources"?

[Lunabell]

35. Oh, come on!

This is common knowledge and Israel played down the threat. It's called news and journalism.

[former9thward]

37. Except no one can give a cite to this "common knowledge".

What you said is that Netanyahu "knew about the attack according to many reliable sources" Who are those sources?

[Lunabell]

44. Wow.

Google it. I'm not doing your homework for you.

[Sympthsical]

45. If you're making a claim, citing reliable sources is your homework.

If you don't want to bother with sourcing your claims, that's fine. People can take that as an indication of the reliability of the statement.

[The Magistrate]

50. It's The Usual Sort Of Grouse, Sir

There were reports from lower echelon observers that something might be brewing. From this it is extrapolated that these all were passed to Netanyahu's desk, at which he began rubbing hands with the glee of a happy merchant, thinking it was a great opportunity to steal Gaza at the trifling cost of hundreds of Israelis subjected to rape, torture, and murder.

My opinion is that the reports weren't taken too seriously because middle-level IDF types didn't think Hamas capable of pulling off such a large, coordinated effort, however devoutly it might aspire to. Israel tends to over-rate its capabilities, and under-rate those of its Arab opponents.


"It ain't what you don't know, it's what ya know that ain't so'll get you every time."

[Sympthsical]

71. Arrogance and hubris are so common a failing as to be rendered boring

When major events occur, one almost needs the causes to be singular, exceptional, and laden with heavy purpose. Otherwise, that means history-altering events can be enacted by anyone for any reason out of a clear blue sky for reasons trifling and pointless. In that field of imagination, conspiracy has fertile soil.

The older I get, the more I see circumstances and events where people say, "I cannot believe someone would be stupid enough to allow this happen."

The more I experience and observe of this world, the more my response is, "I absolutely can believe that."

[questionseverything]

54. I thought you were better than that

It’s common knowledge by now that bibi had advance warning, both a year ahead by finding actual written plans and months ahead because the guards reported suspicious activity

[The Magistrate]

58. You're Repeating What I Said: There Were Warnings, They Weren't Taken Seriously

It's pretty common, actually. Stalin had warnings to the day and hour when Hitler would strike, they were written off as provocations intended to trick him into going off half-cocked and attacking Germany. We certainly knew the Japanese were up to something, but figured the Philippines for the target, striking straight to Pearl we didn't think was something they could manage. The information's almost always there, just lost in the chaff and preconceptions.


"What other people think of me is none of my damn business."

[Sympthsical]

59. Wasn't what I was responding to

I'm responding to "I'm not doing your homework for you!"

Which is a serious internet pet peeve of mine. If you're going to make claims, be prepared to back them up. "I'm not doing your homework for you!" is just childish and lazy. I see it on Reddit all the time (from certain kinds of individuals - the ones who just like to say shit as if it's true without evidence). It's not like anyone here was conscripted to make arguments against our will. People volunteered to be a part of the conversation and then act like a put upon party when asked to back up. Every time I see, "I'm nOt DoINg ur hoMewrK for U!" my teeth are set on edge. Then don't say anything. No one asked to begin with.

Although, while we're on the topic. The idea isn't that there was information that wasn't appropriately dealt with - we all know that was the case.

But the poster has been framing it as a massive conspiracy theory - which is why the original call out happened and why the current attention-seeking snit is occurring. "Everyone knows the Jews had a conspiracy" is some shit, she got called out, and she doesn't like it. And this isn't the first time this shit has floated past on this particular river.

Oh well. We shall all journey on somehow.

[Earth-shine]

8. Settlers - Why "settle" for anything when you can just take it?

[Voltaire2]

41. One cannot be a 'settler' outside of a system of

colonial oppression. The term itself dehumanizes the existing population.

[TeamProg]

13. Forced "Voluntary Migration" is real. It seems kind of clear now that Israelis, in their support for Netanyahu

voted to wipe Israel clean of Palestinians - who have every right to their partition of land.

History will not be kind.

[maxsolomon]

24. Salt in the wound.

One suspects these units were on the drawing board already, and 10/7 is a convenient rationale to move forward.

Make sure you fill them up with zealots. That will help calm things down...

[H2O Man]

25. What could possibly go wrong?

[Mountainguy]

26. Palestinians murder isrealis

As a response Israelis gentrify neighborhoods....

And the response by antisemites is "look how evil those Jews are!"

[David__77]

31. Blinken says it is against international law.

[XorXor]

72. Two things can be bad/wrong at the same time

I fail to see how this act makes Israel safer. This isn't Israel protecting itself, but rather it's Israel behaving in a way that validates some of the claims against them. This is throwing fuel on the fire. Maybe someone can explain to me how this helps with Israeli security.

I say this as someone who generally supports Israel and it's right to defend itself.

[pecosbob]

30. Building new settler homes in close proximity to the Jordanian border...

Lots of Palestinians in Jordan...wonder if any of them are Hamas?

Is Bibi gonna invade Jordan if Hamas shells these new settlements?

[former9thward]

34. Jordan has a long history of killing Palestinian militants.

See Black September 1971. So your theory will probably not happen.

[The Magistrate]

46. Taking Your Hypothetical Seriously For A Moment, Sir

Jordan is a sovereign state, with a functioning government.

It is the duty of a government to prevent private bodies using its territory as a base for attacking a neighboring state.

The present government of Jordan would do so.

On the off-chance it did not, or if its best efforts proved inadequate to the task, the neighboring state would be within bounds if it took military action against the private bodies assailing it.

[malaise]

49. More land grabbing

Enough of this madness

[Freethinker65]

51. Who would want to live there if it is a hostile takeover of what little land Palestinians call home?

How about building 3000 new settlement homes for pre-screened Palestinians across the border in Israel. Show both sides that they can peacefully coexist and that they have more in common with each other trying to live their lives and provide the best for their kids than they do with their divisive manipulative governments.

[walkingman]

53. There seems to be no solution to conflict in a Theocratic Democracy.

[Iggo]

60. Look what you made me do.

[The Magistrate]

62. That's Bullshit, And I Expect You Know It

This isn't a wife being struck because she yelled at her husband for blowing the paycheck down at the bar, or because she was seen being friendly with the guy across the landing.

This is a military response to atrocity on a grand scale, committed by armed men whose leaders make clear they intend repeating the exercise.

[JustAnotherGen]

63. Amen

[redqueen]

67. Building settlements is a military response?

It is interesting that this type of shooting results in more land grabs - which some here apparently support - but when it's settlers shooting Palestinians there's no seized land forfeited back to Palestinians.

[cornball 24]

61. PLEASE... we can dissect, analyze, evaluate, investigate, scrutinize, etc. and go back

in history as far as one can go, not even knowing that what history portrays is truly accurate. What is happening NOW is that the lives of innocent Palestinian children are being taken/destroyed. There is no excuse for this barbaric behavior. (I did not mean for this to be a response to the OP.)

[JustAnotherGen]

64. No one disagrees with that

But the Gaza leadership can end this tomorrow if they would just release the hostages.

Why are they being so selfish? The Hamas Organization is the Gaza leadership and they are selfish evil SOB's.

[redqueen]

68. This thread is about what is happening in the West Bank.

[lapucelle]

70. And? Nothing about the West Bank will be settled until Hamas is out of Gaza.

It is only then that meaningful negotiations for the territory of a Palestinian state (with the possibility of a reformed UN governing Jerusalem as an international city) can even begin.

=================================

[lapucelle]

69. Hamas needs to release the hostages and get out of Gaza,

so that the world can move forward.

I'm sure there is a terrorist adjacent regime somewhere that will be happy to host Hamas.