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Nevilledog

(51,044 posts)
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 02:40 PM Feb 23

Current IVF patients in Alabama can no longer even transport existing embryos to other states.





Mark Joseph Stern
@mjs_DC
·
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Email from the National Infertility Association: "Nationwide embryo shipping services have indicated they will stop transporting embryos to and from Alabama until further notice."

So current IVF patients in Alabama can no longer even transport existing embryos to other states.
9:33 AM · Feb 23, 2024


Mark corrected that it was Infertility Association as opposed to Fertility, so I changed it in the tweet language.
65 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Current IVF patients in Alabama can no longer even transport existing embryos to other states. (Original Post) Nevilledog Feb 23 OP
Are they under arrest? Being held hostage? getagrip_already Feb 23 #1
Well since they are children and minors............................ Lovie777 Feb 23 #4
Ahh, pro life, of course getagrip_already Feb 23 #8
I think the embryo children need to hire an attorney. Irish_Dem Feb 23 #19
They should be legal if they've been kept on ice for 18 years or more. Buns_of_Fire Feb 23 #6
And what happened to "parents' rights"?? lastlib Feb 23 #28
If you could find a company willing to make the move, you could. Gore1FL Feb 23 #35
Hard to believe they didn't know what the ramifications of this ruling would be Walleye Feb 23 #2
They don't care. Nevilledog Feb 23 #3
I guess they think they will get their reward in heaven Walleye Feb 23 #7
29 virgin embryos in the afterlife..... getagrip_already Feb 23 #10
Good one! Walleye Feb 23 #11
What if parents want to take their zygote babies to Disney? A_Woman_from_MI Feb 23 #5
that is a pretty brilliant argumement obamanut2012 Feb 23 #13
I really don't get this Mz Pip Feb 23 #9
And do the parents have any say in what happens to these embryos? Walleye Feb 23 #12
As long as the parents are 100% on board with their Dominionist agenda, tanyev Feb 23 #51
They will seize them and adopt them out obamanut2012 Feb 23 #14
The GOP will sell them for adoption. Irish_Dem Feb 23 #17
half way expecting AL to offer shorter prison sentences to women in exchange for gestating unused IVF embryos. Attilatheblond Feb 23 #40
Wouldn't that be kidnapping? sheshe2 Feb 23 #43
Isn't it very expensive to keep them frozen? Who pays the bill forever? Irish_Dem Feb 23 #15
Just think--I could've inherited my brother! lastlib Feb 23 #29
Right, we are forced to keep our siblings frozen for as long as they live. Irish_Dem Feb 23 #39
This is a great point Alpeduez21 Feb 23 #37
The taxpayer will end up footing the bill. Irish_Dem Feb 23 #53
Not paying your frozen embryo bill drmeow Feb 23 #52
But freezing your child is felony child abuse. Irish_Dem Feb 23 #54
Or be chalked up as not paying child support. TheKentuckian Feb 23 #60
My prediction Nevilledog Feb 23 #16
Weird Mz Pip Feb 23 #21
3 couples had embryos destroyed when another clinic patient dropped them. Nevilledog Feb 23 #23
Thank you Mz Pip Feb 23 #25
I think your right but if these are "children" in Alabama, parents should be able to move them Arazi Feb 23 #24
It's not that they are barred from being moved. Gore1FL Feb 23 #31
A pound of dry ice and YETI cooler coprolite Feb 23 #46
I do like that solution. Gore1FL Feb 24 #65
I fully expect that the state will offer women in prison reduced sentences in return for use of their uterus to gestate Attilatheblond Feb 23 #41
You can buy a child frozen or cooked. Irish_Dem Feb 23 #55
The way the authoritarians are going, such options might not be out of the realm of fesibility Attilatheblond Feb 23 #57
Yes a logical conclusion to the current facts. Irish_Dem Feb 23 #58
And they can't get to heaven until they've been baptized. Probatim Feb 23 #50
Oh my yes. The frozen children must be baptized immediately. Irish_Dem Feb 23 #56
That is pretty much the Catholics. Many to most other sects are less adamant about baptism. TheKentuckian Feb 23 #61
Build up enough of them and start some bizarre forced birth pogrom? TheKentuckian Feb 23 #59
Pauses on embryo transfers out of Alabama leave IVF patients with few options mahatmakanejeeves Feb 23 #18
Isn't that kidnapping and unlawful restraint? Hermit-The-Prog Feb 23 #20
They aren't forced to keep them in AL. Gore1FL Feb 23 #32
AL is gonna get 'em either way... Hermit-The-Prog Feb 23 #36
They collectively need a class-action MOMFUDSKI Feb 23 #22
Clinic should start shipping frozen embryos Johonny Feb 23 #26
The problem is the lack of anyone with the ability to ship them. Gore1FL Feb 23 #33
Wouldn't that be considered interference mercuryblues Feb 23 #27
The parents still have custodial rights. Gore1FL Feb 23 #34
Does the Alabama Court decision actually end IVF, or is it just so unclear right now, Silent Type Feb 23 #30
I don't see it exactly as banned but you are on the hook TheKentuckian Feb 23 #62
Thanks for the nuanced response. Honestly, think I'd rather be conceived somewhere besides Alabama. Silent Type Feb 23 #63
You're quite welcome and just giving what I parse here. TheKentuckian Feb 23 #64
Someone on Thom Hartmann today cannabis_flower Feb 23 #38
Words from an IVF patient in Colorado... TSExile Feb 23 #42
They especially can't be transported if they've been implanted. limbicnuminousity Feb 23 #44
Im sure it already being discussed coprolite Feb 23 #49
It's all about FREEDUMB! flashman13 Feb 23 #45
When the clinic closes for lack of patients Delmette2.0 Feb 23 #47
So now the way Alassippi moniss Feb 23 #48

getagrip_already

(14,660 posts)
1. Are they under arrest? Being held hostage?
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 02:47 PM
Feb 23

If they are people, don't they have the right to travel freely?

How can they be held without being convicted?

Enquiring minds.....

Lovie777

(12,218 posts)
4. Well since they are children and minors............................
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 02:54 PM
Feb 23

the adults in Alabama have concur for their safety, to remain in the frozen tomb forever with no choice of breathing and seeing the world.

Their parents or the surrogate will have to conceive the old fashion way.

Buns_of_Fire

(17,171 posts)
6. They should be legal if they've been kept on ice for 18 years or more.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 02:55 PM
Feb 23

Otherwise, it might be embryo trafficking. I'm sure the Alabama legislature will get right on the appropriate legislation.

Gore1FL

(21,112 posts)
35. If you could find a company willing to make the move, you could.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:34 PM
Feb 23

They are not legally locked in AL. There are no companies with the ability to move embryos willing to take the legal risks in AL to do so.

Mz Pip

(27,433 posts)
9. I really don't get this
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 02:58 PM
Feb 23

So what’s supposed to happen to all these frozen embryos? To they stay in the freezer forever with never the chance to be born? How is that a good thing?

Walleye

(30,992 posts)
12. And do the parents have any say in what happens to these embryos?
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 03:03 PM
Feb 23

They keep saying they’re all about parental rights

tanyev

(42,534 posts)
51. As long as the parents are 100% on board with their Dominionist agenda,
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 06:13 PM
Feb 23

then, yes, parental rights.

obamanut2012

(26,049 posts)
14. They will seize them and adopt them out
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 03:09 PM
Feb 23

In a woman's uterus.

Sounds sick as hell, doesn't it? But, they will.

Attilatheblond

(2,143 posts)
40. half way expecting AL to offer shorter prison sentences to women in exchange for gestating unused IVF embryos.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:55 PM
Feb 23

Then, the state gets control of the actual children born. Big money in adoption I hear.

In the meantime, one assumes the parents will have to keep paying the companies for cold storage. Makes ya wonder just how much those companies may have paid to the AL supreme court justices to assure the steady flow of baby rental space.

Irish_Dem

(46,721 posts)
15. Isn't it very expensive to keep them frozen? Who pays the bill forever?
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 03:12 PM
Feb 23

The embryos get passed down generation to generation?

lastlib

(23,186 posts)
29. Just think--I could've inherited my brother!
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:23 PM
Feb 23

How could they be children if they don't have a birth certificate?

Will the state now have to issue "conception certificates" on every embryo?

Irish_Dem

(46,721 posts)
39. Right, we are forced to keep our siblings frozen for as long as they live.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:47 PM
Feb 23

Yes we will all get conception certificates.

We don't need birth certificates because we are already people by then.

Alpeduez21

(1,750 posts)
37. This is a great point
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:45 PM
Feb 23

Usually the parents attempting for a pregnancy foot the freezer cost until fertilization. Then the other embryos are discarded. Now they may have to pay in perpetuity or if they go bankrupt does the state now pay. Legally these frozen embryos become wards of the state. Then there are parental abandonment issues. This is the problem of using a 2000 year old book as your science textbook. You don’t really know anything

Nevilledog

(51,044 posts)
16. My prediction
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 03:13 PM
Feb 23

They'll set up a way for individuals to surrender the embryos and then let people "adopt" them for implantation.

Mz Pip

(27,433 posts)
21. Weird
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 03:28 PM
Feb 23

It sounds like even the biological parents can’t get access to them. Wasn’t the whole point of IVF to have a child?

I don’t even understand how this ended up in the courts.

Nevilledog

(51,044 posts)
23. 3 couples had embryos destroyed when another clinic patient dropped them.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 03:35 PM
Feb 23

They sued for the loss of the embryos pursuant to wrongful death of a minor laws. The Supreme Court in Alabama is led by a religious evangelical nutjob who wrote the opinion that frozen embryos are extrauterine children. It sounds crazy because it is crazy.

Mz Pip

(27,433 posts)
25. Thank you
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 03:57 PM
Feb 23

for explaining it so clearly. I have a hard time keeping up with all the antics of the RWNJs.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
24. I think your right but if these are "children" in Alabama, parents should be able to move them
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 03:42 PM
Feb 23

Of course, I also know that nothing about this situation will be logical.

The courts are dominated by Christo-fascists there and their decisions are gonna be terrible.

Couples in other red states who are in the middle of an IVF attempt should be freaked out. The patients/doctors/clinics in Alabama appear to have been blindsided (although in all honesty, Dems have been warning this was coming as soon as Roe fell)

Gore1FL

(21,112 posts)
31. It's not that they are barred from being moved.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:27 PM
Feb 23

There is no one with the equipment willing to move them.

coprolite

(177 posts)
46. A pound of dry ice and YETI cooler
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 05:40 PM
Feb 23

aren't adequate?

I asked in another post about this situation, since these frozen embryos are now consider children, can a parent legally leave a canister of frozen embryos on the door of a fire station and still be covered by the Safe Baby Haven Laws?

Attilatheblond

(2,143 posts)
41. I fully expect that the state will offer women in prison reduced sentences in return for use of their uterus to gestate
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:59 PM
Feb 23

Some people want to adopt a ready made child, not actually carry a fetus. I have heard there's some big money in that. Let me see if I still have Betsy DeVos's phone number to get info on the going rate.

Attilatheblond

(2,143 posts)
57. The way the authoritarians are going, such options might not be out of the realm of fesibility
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 09:36 PM
Feb 23

The way Tuberville kept saying 'we need more people' coupled with the GOP/MAGA insistence of blocking brown people makes me think white babies might become commodities.

Irish_Dem

(46,721 posts)
58. Yes a logical conclusion to the current facts.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 09:45 PM
Feb 23

A racist society, white supremacists seizing power, terrified of a multicultural society begins to go all Hitler.
Build an Aryan race.

Irish_Dem

(46,721 posts)
56. Oh my yes. The frozen children must be baptized immediately.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 06:42 PM
Feb 23

Or they will go directly to hell if they thaw out accidentally.

TheKentuckian

(25,023 posts)
59. Build up enough of them and start some bizarre forced birth pogrom?
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 09:49 PM
Feb 23

Axlotl tanks from sea to shining sea?

Maybe starting with female prisoners or a welfare requirement or some such evil shit?

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,352 posts)
18. Pauses on embryo transfers out of Alabama leave IVF patients with few options
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 03:13 PM
Feb 23
HEALTH NEWS
Pauses on embryo transfers out of Alabama leave IVF patients with few options
Some fertility clinics and transport services are worried about shipping embryos following the Alabama Supreme Court's ruling that embryos are children.

Feb. 23, 2024, 12:29 PM EST
By Aria Bendix

Some fertility clinics and shipping services plan to hold off on sending frozen embryos from Alabama to other states as they weigh the legal implications of an Alabama court ruling that says embryos created through in vitro fertilization are children.

Many doctors and patients are confused about which elements of fertility treatment are restricted, following the Alabama Supreme Court decision last week, and at least three Alabama providers have paused IVF services. Some IVF patients have considered moving their embryos out of the state to continue the process elsewhere, only to learn that the option isn't available to them right now.

RESOLVE: The National Infertility Association announced Friday that nationwide embryo shipping services have indicated that they will stop transporting embryos to and from Alabama. ... "This slight window of hope for Alabamans currently undergoing IVF to continue their family-building treatment in other states just slammed shut," RESOLVE CEO Barbara Collura said in a statement.

At least two IVF providers in Alabama told NBC News they have paused shipping of embryos, as well. ... The University of Alabama at Birmingham, which suspended IVF services this week, said Thursday that it is not sending embryos to new locations for now.

{snip}

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,297 posts)
20. Isn't that kidnapping and unlawful restraint?
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 03:22 PM
Feb 23

Christofascists shouldn't sit on courts or hold any public office.

Gore1FL

(21,112 posts)
32. They aren't forced to keep them in AL.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:28 PM
Feb 23

There is simply no services with the ability to move them, willing to move them due to the risks involved due to the new rulings.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,297 posts)
36. AL is gonna get 'em either way...
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:43 PM
Feb 23

Kidnapping if they refuse to move the frozen kids out of AL;
human trafficking of minors across state lines if they move the kidcicles.

Johonny

(20,824 posts)
26. Clinic should start shipping frozen embryos
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:00 PM
Feb 23

To the chief justices house and say, there yours now. Deal with them, we're leaving.

Gore1FL

(21,112 posts)
33. The problem is the lack of anyone with the ability to ship them.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:30 PM
Feb 23

No one is preventing the embryos' from crossing state lines. There is simply no one willing to move them inside of AL.

Gore1FL

(21,112 posts)
34. The parents still have custodial rights.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:32 PM
Feb 23

They just don't have access to anyone with the necessary equipment willing to take the risk of moving an embryo in the state AL.

Silent Type

(2,879 posts)
30. Does the Alabama Court decision actually end IVF, or is it just so unclear right now,
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:24 PM
Feb 23

that organizations are being cautious?

Don’t blame them when white wingers get vile, but I get the feeling the decision doesn’t prohibit IVF, it just unnecessarily complicates what is legal, especially now.

TheKentuckian

(25,023 posts)
62. I don't see it exactly as banned but you are on the hook
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 10:09 PM
Feb 23

for implanting however many embryos so they can all be born seems to be the gist which means for all reasonable and practical reasons it cannot continue as a viable practice.

I think they want to transfer one for the procedure but now every egg that is fertilized has to be at least preserved forever or be implanted so who would even want to perform it and be at risk for murder charges or trying to get a woman to carry a likely to be non viable to term?

This is a crazy ass nonsensical and stupidly evil mess.

TheKentuckian

(25,023 posts)
64. You're quite welcome and just giving what I parse here.
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 11:11 PM
Feb 23

I will say I don't at all understand how the possible potential to be something can be equated to being something.

Personhood at fertilization is complete hash, at the very best.

Somehow even more ridiculous than the fetal heartbeat nonsense when no such organ is even present.

Tight contest though!

cannabis_flower

(3,764 posts)
38. Someone on Thom Hartmann today
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 04:45 PM
Feb 23

Suggested that if people didn’t want to pay to continue keeping them alive, they should make them wards of the State of Alabama.

moniss

(4,193 posts)
48. So now the way Alassippi
Fri Feb 23, 2024, 05:47 PM
Feb 23

has interpreted the law and the embryo as being a child I have to conclude that an aggressive, grandstanding District Attorney would look at cases where a couple decides not to go through with IVF and then charge them with child abandonment.

Although this transport action is being enacted by a private company I could easily see a situation where the state may very well step in with their various Child Protective Services laws. Then also there are the implications in a divorce about custody, visitation and monetary support. What happens if embryos are in cold storage and now the family has financial hard times and must rely on AFDC? How are the costs regarding the "child" in cold storage dealt with. Medicaid does not cover IVF. So now what?

There is also the scenario where the state might use a threat of child abandonment charges to coerce a mother into continuing with IVF. In that case if she later has complications and dies perhaps the state should face charges.

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