After 10 years of trying, a Palestinian woman had twins. An Israeli strike killed them both

[David__77]

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — It took 10 years and three rounds of in vitro fertilization for Rania Abu Anza to become pregnant, and only seconds for her to lose her five-month-old twins, a boy and a girl.

An Israeli strike hit the home of her extended family in the southern Gaza city of Rafah late Saturday, killing her children, her husband and 11 other relatives and leaving another nine missing under the rubble, according to survivors and local health officials.

She had woken up at around 10 p.m. to breastfeed Naeim, the boy, and went back to sleep with him in one arm and Wissam, the girl, in the other. Her husband was sleeping beside them.

The explosion came an hour and a half later. The house collapsed.

…

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-children-twins-killed-gaza-25282b273b92aec7fc75c3212f8d8e3f

[Voltaire2]

1. Apparently Palestinians aren't fully human

so it’s ok to indiscriminately slaughter them.

[David__77]

2. It could be quite intentional actually.

[Voltaire2]

9. well it obviously is, but that even more so 'others' Palestinians into the subhuman category..

At this point my only objective with continuing to discuss this here is to try to get people to see how a genocide in progress can be justified. I'll concede some points in order to try to use an accepted perspective, for example that the slaughter is not specifically intentional, to discuss the implications of that viewpoint. How is the ongoing and obvious 'unintentional' slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinians acceptable?

[Beastly Boy]

39. On whose part?

I recall Hamas leaders gleefully declaring more civilian casualties in Gaza as their intended goal.

Is this what you meant?

[TexasDem69]

56. What makes you think it's intentional?

This specific death.

[David__77]

60. Here's a related article.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/

[TexasDem69]

64. I'll read this article

But it doesn’t answer my question about why you think this might be intentional

[RandomNumbers]

4. Similar to raping, and mutilating while still alive, Israeli women

Clearly there is no law in Islam against treating women like that. Or possibly a non-Muslim woman doesn't count. Or an Israeli is even lower?

I'm not sure, I just can't figure out how rape is allowed in the so structured Islamic moral code. Women have to cover up so they don't cause a man to sin, but it is a-okay for a man to rape? How does that even work?

(and I have observed this with some groups of Islamic men in other countries, not just the Middle East - the moral code is only for men to control women - as soon as a woman is "less than", they can let loose ALL their urges on her.)

Edit to make very clear: I am sure there are many groups of Islam where this brutality is NOT okay. It is puzzling to me how it happens to be apparently very okay when we are talking about Palestine - and certain other places (but in those other places when it makes the news, it is at least a scandal, and sometimes justice is done.)

[David__77]

8. I doubt the people who killed the twins were Muslims.

And why are you generalizing about Muslims, stating that the religion supports rape?

[RandomNumbers]

12. Not saying the religion supports it necessarily. Just that many professed or apparent adherents

not only support it, but engage in it.

[David__77]

14. You stated that Islamic law supports rape.

[Earth-shine]

17. The poster did not state that. Stop it! Take a breath, man.

[David__77]

20. " Clearly there is no law in Islam against" is very clear. And a generalization about Muslims.

[Demsrule86]

23. If you are trying to say the Islamic law's treatment of women is decent or justified,

I don't agree.

[David__77]

25. I was pointing out the post that claimed it supports rape, generalizing about Muslims.

[Earth-shine]

24. That there is no law against does not imply there is one for.

Give this up now! You are only insulting people who largely agree with you. You are fighting over the meaning of words when there are real conflicts to be dealt with.

[David__77]

27. Are you claiming Islamic law allows rape?

[Earth-shine]

37. Good-bye David. You are just choosing to be difficult.

[Beastly Boy]

41. It allows rape just a little bit:

Quran Chapter 70 in English. Ways of Ascent. al-Ma'arij:
https://www.clearquran.com/070.html

29.And those who guard their chastity.

30. Except from their spouses or those living under their control, for then they are free of blame.

31. But whoever seeks to go beyond that—these are the transgressors.

When you rape a wife, a slave or a captive, or any combination of the above with no limits to their numbers, you are "free of blame".

[Beastly Boy]

44. Sure, and I kill all the poor puppies at the ASPCA.

Last edited Sun Mar 3, 2024, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Argue with the quoted Surah, not me. I am just here providing factual information.

BTW, your post is a personal offense to a DU member and a violation of the TOU. I don't alert on principle, but you may consider changing your wording just a little bit, just for the sake of sounding marginally more credible.

[David__77]

45. What is your motivation in asserting that Islam supports rape?

[Beastly Boy]

46. First, it is not "Islam supports rape"

It is "according to Surah 70 of the Quran, rape under certain circumstances is permissible".

Second, my motivation is your Post 27.

Third, thank you for deleting your offensive post.

[David__77]

47. Yes, you did say that Islam "allows rape" rather than "supports" rape. I hope you will reconsider this generalization.

I also hope you will reconsider the ways in which "providing factual information" about religious scripture is and has been used to substantiate terrible bigotries.

[Beastly Boy]

49. I didn't say this.

I said, and I quote, "It allows rape just a little bit".

What is it about your fascination with misquoting? Isn't it easy enough to check something before you put quotation marks around it?

Also, consider not baiting people into debating subjects for which you have no factual references.

[David__77]

50. "It" is Islam. "A little bit" of rape is rape. It is a sweeping generalization of the religion of Islam.

[Beastly Boy]

53. It's as if you didn't read the Surah I quoted.

Did you?

If you want to gratuitously throw the accusation of sweeping generalizations around, you will have to start with the source.

I was very precise and definitive with my quote. It addressed your post in a very distinct manner.

[David__77]

55. "It allows rape just a little bit" is your conclusion and assertion, not a quote. It was about the religion of Islam.

[Beastly Boy]

61. If I were you, I wouldn't presume to speak for Islam. It was a reply to your rather uninformed post, for gawds sake!

My conclusion and assertion are based on verses 29, 30 and 31 of Sura 70, which I quoted.

Did you read them? Did you?

What other conclusions and assertions can you possibly offer after reading them?

[Demsrule86]

22. Islamic Law is terrible for women. And rape is one of the methods...

They killed women because they went without head coverings...spare me. A woman raped can find herself in jail or worse.

[RandomNumbers]

30. Not really. But to make it clear, I did edit my post.

I was being sarcastic with "clearly there is no law in Islam ..."

I have no idea what Islamic law does or does not say, just that it is VERY strict with regards to how women must behave, yet the males often (NOT ALWAYS, but in the specific case we are referring to, OBVIOUSLY) feel no compunction against it; no concern that they will be shamed or met with severe consequences for this behavior. So if there were a law, why would they so freely and publicly flout it?

[David__77]

31. I suggest to leave Islamic law out of it.

[RandomNumbers]

19. I wasn't referring to the twins - I'm comparing the treatment of "others" as sub-humans

While the poster claimed that Palestinians are being treated as sub-human, I am giving an example of this going the other direction.

Hate begets hate. This is what Hamas has wrought. The current conflagration was initiated by the October 7 events, which included the treatment of Israelis as sub-human, by Palestinians or those posing as Palestinians. The Palestinians don't seem to have yet rejected their leaders who have brought this on.

I don't like ANY of the brutality and I agree that it is very counter-productive for any democratic aims in the U.S. and Europe.

It's almost like someone (several someones, actually) who is safe from the violence themselves, and who doesn't care one whit about the suffering of others, has stoked these factions into fighting each other and driving political divisions in ways that are helpful to them. Hmmm.

Tell me, why are they meeting in Moscow? https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/29/middleeast/palestinian-moscow-meeting-russia-gaza-war-intl/index.html

[Earth-shine]

10. Extremist muslims see non-muslims as infidels, and therefore, less than human.

But they still want to stick their dicks in the "less-than-human" woman.

I think all religions have their hypocrisies, but this is especially disgusting.

The reason for the Oct 7 attack, replete with rapes, torture, and murders, was to provoke Israel into a war.

Israel is giving them what they want -- a war that creates world-wide anti-Israel sentiment. Surely Israel should play this differently.

[David__77]

13. The post referenced Islam in general, not "extremist" Muslims.

Why are Muslims especially disgusting to you?

[Earth-shine]

15. I think you are misinterpreting both myself and the other poster.

Rape is disgusting. Hypocrisy is disgusting. Got it now?

[David__77]

16. The post stated that Islamic law supports rape. It was quite clear.

[Earth-shine]

18. Okay, try reading with your glasses on. You are wrong!

[David__77]

21. What was the point about Islamic law and rape?

[Earth-shine]

29. The point -- the rapes happened, and if they truly were religious men -- any religion -- how could this be?

The poster asks a question about religion, but the answer is in the realm of politics and angered human nature.

You know, most of the time you make intelligent posts. You are a strong voice here for the Palestinian side.

Today, you are making a fool of yourself. "Not no" does not mean "yes."

[TexasDem69]

57. You're just being obtuse now

Stop, and stop posting stories that support Hamas, or blame Israel for deaths that are a direct result of Hamas’ atrocities

[David__77]

59. This story is about a woman and her two daughters. I see nothing wrong with the posting the story.

[RandomNumbers]

26. I did edit my post (like one second after posting) because I realized it could be taken wrong.

Perhaps David read only the unedited version. (my edit is only the "Edit to add" part at the end)

I think you got it, I was being sarcastic - because I believe what those cretins did DOES violate Islamic law, or at least the letter of it. But I have seen PLENTY of stories globally where groups of men, often but not always Islamic, seem to act like they are oh so religious but then are happy to gang-rape a woman they feel "deserves" it.

My issue is with the hypocrites of all stripes - but especially Muslims who do this BECAUSE their religion otherwise seems so strict. I get how "Christians" can get drunk and turn into cretins. But a woman can't even show her face in some places, yet the men can turn into animals? And apparently feel they will not be shamed or face any consequences from their religious elders?

[David__77]

28. I did not get sarcasm.

I think people on all sides of these issues should be very careful about using metaphors or sarcasm. There are tons of religious bigotries aimed at Jews and Muslims. Of course there are bad people among different groups.

[Earth-shine]

33. A more appropriate word than "sarcastic" is "ironic."

Irony - Characterized by often poignant differences and incongruities between what is expected and what actually is.

[RandomNumbers]

36. Thank you, that is indeed better. nt

[David__77]

11. I suggest you to make a post on this, to provide a negative example of bigotry.

[Beastly Boy]

38. The two million of them who live in Israel certainly are.

To the fullest extent of the meaning.

Something that can't be said for the Palestinians in Syria, Lebanon or Saudi Arabia.

[Voltaire2]

40. The 2.7 million palestinians in the occupied territories certainly don't.

I won't even bother to argue your point, it is both factually dubious and irrelevant.

[Beastly Boy]

42. My point is both factual and relevant.

You posted "Apparently Palestinians aren't fully human", as in all of them, didn't you? Or did I misread?

But your refusal to argue it is understandable and was fully expected. Can't say I am disappointed.

[malaise]

48. THIS

Rec

[Earth-shine]

3. This doesn't make less Hamas. It makes more.

Whether right or wrong, true or false, virtuous or evil, the Gazans see Hamas as their only meager protection from Israel.

[David__77]

6. Absolutely. This military campaign weakens Israel. And the US..

[Earth-shine]

7. It turns potential voters against Biden because of the anger it generates.

The anger prevents them from seeing that things would be worse for Gaza under Trump.

[TexasDem69]

67. What do you propose?

Should Israel cease its efforts and let Hamas commit another 10/7 six months from now?

[TheKentuckian]

62. The protection not only isn't working but by all acounts

only creates less and less favorable conditions.

The premise is false though, there is no caring about protection (not at least until the checks come due), it isn't compatible with being a nation of martyrs to the cause of the destruction of Israel.

[Earth-shine]

66. "there is no caring about protection (not at least until the checks come due),"

This is word salad nonsense.

[TheKentuckian]

68. Do better

[Earth-shine]

69. Do nothing.

[lpbk2713]

5. Two babies and their father while sleeping.

The civilian killers should have gotten a few high fives out of that.


Israeli airstrikes have regularly hit crowded family homes since the start
of the war in Gaza, even in Rafah, which Israel declared a safe zone in October
but is now the next target of its devastating ground offensive.

[jimfields33]

35. A lot can change since October. More information may have been found.

For example, in October there were no Hamas members in the house so they called it safe. 4 months later they found out they were wrong and Hamas members are living in the home. They get rid of the safe house designation so they can rid the world of the Hamas people staying and planning next Israeli terrorist attack in the home.

This may not be the case, but it definitely could be. We need more Information on this story.

[Joinfortmill]

32. War is hell. People die. That's why peace is precious.

[Earth-shine]

34. The solution to war is peace. It is so precious. So fragile. The people want it. The two governments don't.

[Mysterian]

51. Hamas is responsible for their deaths

Hamas terrorists are responsible for the entire Gaza tragedy.

[Voltaire2]

52. This is the claim that Israel has no agency.

It is a ludicrous claim.

[Mysterian]

54. Deal with it in your own special way

Hamas made the decision to turn their territory into a war zone. Palestinians should find leadership that cares if they live or die.

[TheKentuckian]

63. It is a statement of who is accountable.

Agency does not guarantee a preferred or even a tolerable set of options.

[Earth-shine]

65. Where's that unrec button?

What you write is patently untrue.