FDNY "looking into" officers booing New York AG who sued Trump

[Eugene]

Source: The Independent

FDNY “looking into” officers booing New York AG who sued Trump

Graig Graziosi
Sun, March 10, 2024 at 4:24 PM EST·2 min read

New York Fire Department Commissioner Laura Kavanagh is reportedly trying to find which firefighters and staffers booed New York Attorney General Letitia James during a promotion ceremony earlier this week, according to a report.

Some members of the FDNY booed Ms James and chanted Donald Trump's name over her during the ceremony, which was held at the Christian Cultural Centre's Brooklyn Campus, according to the New York Post.

“Oh, come on. We’re in a house of God. First, simmer down,” Ms James told her detractors during the event. “Thank you for getting it out of your system.”

Ms James was at the event because her friend, Reverend Pamela Holmes, was bring sworn in as the department's second female chaplain. She is the first Black woman to hold the title.

-snip-

Read more: https://news.yahoo.com/fdny-looking-officers-booing-york-202435132.html

[chowder66]

1. How would they like it if the public cheered an arsonist?

[BootinUp]

2. Good. Nt

[edhopper]

3. Union people who support TSF

Are idiots and most likely racists.

[PatSeg]

5. And they aren't just union people

They are also New Yorkers who as a rule can't stand Donald Trump. Definitely idiots, rude and classless ones at that.

[MichMan]

4. They all need to be fired

[DVRacer]

6. Flame suit on

No nobody should be investigating anything! You have an elected official being shown displeasure at a public event. Agree with them or not that’s textbook 1st Amendment rights if we can’t stand for that I don’t know what to say.

[Zeitghost]

7. 1000% agreed

n/t

[MagickMuffin]

8. There is a time and place, this is about respect

Which I haven’t noticed the gop having any! They are constantly disrespectful to anyone who doesn’t think and act like them.

[DVRacer]

11. Time and place restrictions

For the 1st Amendment are you for real. I guess I should remember that the next picket line I stand in.

[MagickMuffin]

14. I guess you also approve of the magas screaming out at the SOTU address

Ya know 1st amendment trumps being respectful.


And yes, I am for real. Magas are disrespectful and rude. But you stick to your defense of magas!

[DVRacer]

15. I'm not condoning the message

I’m against any punishment for saying it.

[ProfessorGAC]

18. Companies Set Limits...

...on what can be said at official, company sponsored events all over the country.
This was an official event and, despite the fact that FDNY is not a private company, I see no reason why the same standards of professional behavior would be considered inappropriate.
Representing the company in an official manner? Maintain decorum or pay the price.

[DVRacer]

20. Like the NFL?

Should the NFL been ok to fine anyone who knelt or fire them. How about teachers here in Oklahoma who recently held protests against elected officials?

[ProfessorGAC]

21. You're Not Making Sense

I'll grant Kapernick, but no other player was disciplined (even Colin wasn't "officially" sanctioned, because the NFL had no policy preventing kneeling. This example is unrelated to my point.
As to the OK teachers, were they on the job? Was it an official district event? Or were they pn their own personal time. Pretty big difference.

[DVRacer]

23. I looked into the event here

It was a promotion ceremony and official event. Everyone was on their own time unpaid. The AG was a guest and then gave a speech.

If I go to as a teacher on my own time to a ceremony where my friend is being promoted to Principal here in Oklahoma. Then during that ceremony Gov Stitt takes the opportunity to speak and I boo him should I be investigated? And possibly punished? Should my Superintendent go on to say in a press release if I don’t turn myself over I will be “hunted down”.

[ProfessorGAC]

26. Obviously Not

If it was ON THEIR OWN TIME. (Your description) If so, there should be no discipline.
That said, if it was an official school function, I think it was inappropriate. But, if the district hasn't collectively bargained that specific form of expression (protest at an official school function) then they have no right to discipline at all. There are plenty of such stipulations in union contracts, but they need to be very specific. The union negotiators would be very unlikely to agree to open ended behavioral restrictions.
In this example, I think the teachers should have kept their powder dry, but it's highly unlikely the school can do anything about it.
At-will employees, however, live with such vagueness. We already know many of the J6 thugs were launched from the jobs. Even some only charged with misdemeanors. I don't disapprove of that at all, but to be fair, these people broke more than professional decorum. They broke the law. Bur, after they lost those jobs, they weren't getting them back on first amendment claims. The companies get to set the rules.

[Kennah]

32. Quoting from my CBA with the State of Washington

"The off-duty activities of an employee will not be grounds for disciplinary action unless said activities are a conflict of interest as set forth in RCW 42.52, or are detrimental to the employee’s work performance or the program of the agency."

RCW 42.52
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=42.52

The relevant part here is "detrimental to ... the program of the agency", which I suspect is common language [or something similar] in many public sector worker contracts.

There are no hard and fast rules on this, but if the employer can articulate a clear and coherent connection, then I suspect an arbitrator would go along.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. Similar To A Point I Made In A Follow-Up Post

We had a conduct policy when I was still working, too. But, codified as in your CBA.
The union contracts in several sites did prohibit electioneering on company property during works hours. Since nearly every site was 24/7, it was essentially "always". I don't remember more detail than that. I was never covered by those contracts & none of direct reports were either, so I wasn't required to have a deep understanding of the CBAs.
I do remember that bumper stickers on cars in the parking lots were considered acceptable, though.

[Kennah]

37. Advocating for any candidate or issue on your own time, is totally ok. Don't do it in the workplace [for WA].

I suspect if you advocate for the Klan, then that's grounds for dismissal.

I suspect booing the AG is a gray area.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. Yes, We Appear To Be On The Same Page

[Mad_Machine76]

9. Maybe not a criminal investigation

but I'm sure that they want to make sure (internally) that members of their department are conducting themselves professionally. Also, FDNY probably doesn't want to have them refusing to do their jobs based on the real or perceived political affiliation of fire victims.

[DVRacer]

10. Maybe not a criminal investigation???

Where am I

[Mad_Machine76]

12. What do you mean?

I don't think they should be criminally investigated.

[DVRacer]

13. What's the typical point of any investigation

To apply punitive measures to correct behavior. Do you really see anything that needs to be corrected? Public official at a public event being booed can you see past the who and what to realize how harmful this would be.

[Kennah]

34. An employer investigation is not criminal in nature

However, the Union Rep would do well to ask and ensure that Garrity applies.

Garrity v. New Jersey, 385 U.S. 493 (1967)

SCOTUS caselaw that information obtained from an employer investigation cannot be used in a criminal investigation. You have the right to remain silent and legal counsel in a criminal investigation. Not so in an employer investigation where one can be COMPELLED to cooperate.

[Mad_Machine76]

35. I see some professionalism issues here

not criminal misconduct nor anything that anybody should be fired for. I work for state government and I'm fairly certain that if my fellow workers and I booed at a public official at an official function, we would probably be at least verbally counseled about professionalism or at the very least the organization would address it.

[bluestarone]

24. Agree!

If they feel that way, i'm thinking they will NOT do their FN job. QUIT if they don't like policy, plain and simple.

[MichMan]

17. It was an official event by the NYFD

I don't believe it was a public event. Were the firefighters there on their own time or the cities?

[dmr]

29. Unless they were in uniform. NT

[AkFemDem]

30. On their own time, I'd agree

It drives me crazy when people lose their ability to speak freely, peacefully protest, etc on their own time. Like, every few months there's some story in the news about a teacher who is fired for social media posts- ridiculous. But if they were in uniform and representing their city at the time, then they knew what was and wasn't appropriate. I'm not saying fire them, but if the later was the case then at the very least there needs to be documentation made in their files and mandatory refresher training.

[Cha]

16. Fuck you Sick Fuck Cult members.. you're So Stupid.. Assholes.

[dalton99a]

19. Racist trash

[AkFemDem]

28. Unprofessional yes. Racist?

Who knows. If Leticia James were white, I suspect she'd have been booed by those individuals in the same way. They weren't booing because she was black. They were booing because she's holding their man-god's bollacks to the fire. To reduce it to race is actually an insult to her and what she's done, imo.

[lindysalsagal]

22. There's a maga problem in all echelons of public service.

[LiberalFighter]

25. Too many bad apples in the FDNY and NYC law enforcement.

[AkFemDem]

31. If I was a first responder in NYC

I might go conservative too. It's a stressful, dangerous job in a city that's had a long history of mismanagement and questionable public safety. I love NY, I visit often, I went to school just down the road in LI, I still think it's one of the top 5 greatest cities in the world... but there are very real problems felt by both citizens and the first responders who serve them and I'm not at all surprised a certain % become so bitter and jaded, they are vulnerable to conservative talking points.

[Arne]

27. The Fox propaganda channel is on every one of the tv's.

I've been in the lunch room at a fire department.
Thru and thru Magas.

[magicarpet]

33. Fire Department and law enforcement department members worship the ground the Tangerine Messiah walks on.

It is alpha/toxic/intolerant male syndrome. They are way more inclined to favor autocracy and Fascism because it is so much more manly and tougher than pinko American Democracy.

This is why they so cling to the idea of President Bone Spur & Bunions returning to the Oval Office. With his Orange pancake makeup and extra hold hairspray - he is the pinacle of masculinity and patriotism.

Oh,.. did I fail to mention - trDUMP is offensive, insulting, crude and rude like a ten year old - with zero inclination to practice any level of self restraint.

Just the sort of guy who should hold the reins of the most powerful country of the world - NOT !