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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat… wha'? Chickens have uteruses, instead of oviducts?!? Since when, PETA?
DCKit
(18,541 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)are killed or otherwise driven from their natural habitat to create 'cruelty free feild' for growing the veg. The typical death toll is massive, particularly if one includes the inscet life that dies.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)If I am ever a human vegetable (i.e., terminally comatose), I hope someone kills me.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)Say a pound of meat requires ten pounds of grain to produce. Are harvesting deaths and habitat destruction magically non-existent in producing that feed?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Whether or not they have ever seen a rooster in their lives. It's absolutely ridiculous to bitch about people eating eggs or drinking milk. People can successfully raise chickens in a cruelty free environment without environmental destruction, and frankly, cows don't take a whole lot of work for milk cows in rural areas.
Warpy
(111,247 posts)long after they've stopped producing eggs. He keeps on feeding them until they keel over. He treats them as pets. The chickens spend the day scratching around and being chickens. At night they have a warm coop.
They have never seen a rooster. Once in a while one of them gets an egg stuck. My neighbor knows how to take care of it and does, as he keeps the coop clean and the chickens healthy and free of internal and external parasites.
To suggest any cruelty to these incredibly pampered chickens just because he eats their unfertilized eggs is nuts.
PETA needs to pick their battles one hell of a lot better.
Some people keep pet chickens so pampered that they are indoor chickens and have "chicken diapers". If you are eating an egg from a chicken so well loved (and they can be great pets, too) that it purposefully runs to you for safety and comfort, it's lunacy to call that abuse.
There is a reason why they are called domesticated animals - it's because they were bred to interact peacefully, usefully and compatibly with humans. If you turned a domesticated chicken out into the wild it would be a death sentence, which is why, yet again, PETA is stupid.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)And it might be absolutely ridiculous to bitch about people eating eggs or drinking milk if the vast majority of eggs and milk weren't produced in environmentally destructive, cruel conditions.
But they're not.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)doesn't mean they don't suffer pain.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Answer: none
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)You can't prove that an animal-style nervous system is the ONLY way to feel pain.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/science/15food.html?pagewanted=all
Unlike a lowing, running cow, a plants reactions to attack are much harder for us to detect. But just like a chicken running around without its head, the body of a corn plant torn from the soil or sliced into pieces struggles to save itself, just as vigorously and just as uselessly, if much less obviously to the human ear and eye.
When a plant is wounded, its body immediately kicks into protection mode. It releases a bouquet of volatile chemicals, which in some cases have been shown to induce neighboring plants to pre-emptively step up their own chemical defenses and in other cases to lure in predators of the beasts that may be causing the damage to the plants. Inside the plant, repair systems are engaged and defenses are mounted, the molecular details of which scientists are still working out, but which involve signaling molecules coursing through the body to rally the cellular troops, even the enlisting of the genome itself, which begins churning out defense-related proteins.
Plants dont just react to attacks, though. They stand forever at the ready. Witness the endless thorns, stinging hairs and deadly poisons with which they are armed. If all this effort doesnt look like an organism trying to survive, then Im not sure what would. Plants are not the inert pantries of sustenance we might wish them to be.
If a plants myriad efforts to keep from being eaten arent enough to stop you from heedlessly laying into that quinoa salad, then maybe knowing that plants can do any number of things that we typically think of as animal-like would. They move, for one thing, carrying out activities that could only be called behaving, if at a pace visible only via time-lapse photography. Not too long ago, scientists even reported evidence that plants could detect and grow differently depending on whether they were in the presence of close relatives, a level of behavioral sophistication most animals have not yet been found to show.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)or does that raise the abortion issue?
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)And B-12? And the other essential nutrients?
Response to pnwmom (Reply #112)
Vattel This message was self-deleted by its author.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)is we have a step where our central nervous system is alerted so we can move away from the source of the damage.
They have something equivalent to every other part of our reaction to pain. Including the stuff that actually hurts, like swelling.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)Humans can be alive, move, and respond to stimuli even when unconscious. As far as we can tell you need some neural equipment like we and many other animals have to be sentient.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)They did an experiment where one person abused a plant, such as burning parts, ripping parts off, yelling at it and so on.
Another person treated the plant nicely - spoke nicely, gave the plant water and fertilizer.
They did this to measure the effects of the abuse on the plant. But an odd thing happened - the plant started reacting to the "evil" person before they interacted with the plant. In fact, it started preparing for damage even when the "evil" person just stood next to the plant and did nothing.
That pretty clearly demonstrates that the plant is doing much more than just reacting to stimuli. The plant was reacting without any known method of stimuli.
We're finding the concept of "consciousness" is trickier than we thought. Just like we used to think only humans and chimps made tools...until we found a lot of other animals making tools.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)We're finding out all sorts of things that don't make sense from a "plants don't feel" perspective. How come some plants grow better when surrounded by their relatives?
Fact is something has to die for us to live. To pretend that is possible to do without inflicting any suffering is wrong.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)on beings that can actually suffer.
Seriously, can't you at least admit that I have more reason to believe that, say, dogs suffer than to believe that brocolli suffers?
snooper2
(30,151 posts).
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Lots of people think broccoli have feelings . . . .
In fact broccoli's feelings are AT LEAST every bit as real as chickens' periods.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)If you haven't then try it. If you have, may be you should pay attention next time.
Lightbulb_on
(315 posts)Eyes of the World
(93 posts)The only thing worse than bad publicity is no publicity
loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Either were you have no idea what the ad is about or when its so dumb people laugh at you and the message you are trying to get across.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Getting your red wings
Aerows
(39,961 posts)That was bad. Okay, I laughed a little, but that was a bloody bad pun.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Yeah they got attention, but not attention that furthers their cause.
That disgusting ad isn't going to make anyone a vegan who already isn't one. It's just going to make more people think peta is a useless organization full of immature idiots. And what does that get them?
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)I am all for the promotion of that message.
Eyes of the World
(93 posts)Sometimes the truth is weird.
But it is still the truth.
Enjoy your chicken-period and ham on toast...
Confusious
(8,317 posts)What else do you believe because google says so?
Btw, only mammals, and only a select few menstrate. Menstrating is the shedding of the outer lining of the uterus. Chickens have no uterus, THEY LAY EGGS. Hence they do not menstrate, and hence PETA is stupid.
william cail
(32 posts)Just stop PeTA. Chickens laying eggs is a natural bodily function. Now I do buy my eggs cage free. I compare PeTA to the anit vaxxers. Being ignorant on science doesn't do you any good.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)PETA forcing its message through disparaging women? AGAIN?
Siwsan
(26,260 posts)There are ways to make points or state an issue without being obnoxious and offensive. PETA just seems to feel the need to shock, and shock rarely wins people over to a point of view.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)but what a weird way to promote their viewpoint. Why not just provide evidence of the suffering that chickens go through because people are greedy and don't make egg production more humane?
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)using "menstruation" as a negative, a reason not to eat eggs.
There needs to be a counter-ad, showing those chickens
leaping happily through fields of flowers as they lay their
eggs.
I'm glad PETA looks out for animals and they've had many
great victories. But this ad is stupid.
People have been eating eggs for zillions of eons.
It's the horrible mistreatment of chickens who are mass-laying
eggs under horrible conditions, THAT's the reason not to
eat those eggs -- not because hens expel the eggs from their
ladyparts.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Only mammals menstrate, and then only a select few.
If you had taken a few moments to look it up, you would have found that.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)That's why I didn't bother to look it up.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Confusious
(8,317 posts)Otherwise, it's sad.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)I am against the inhumane treatment of egg-laying chickens, but not in favor of this sort of approach to opposing it.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)Eggs are released by human females, which also releases associated tissues and fluids.
Eggs are released by avian females, which releases the eggs from the uterus with a shell.
The definition is different, but the reproductive parallel exists.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)So, no, it's not.
Silent3
(15,206 posts)There are enough other parallels that I can see the point -- but only sort of. The Peta ad is still idiotic. Nevertheless, there are times when flexible, poetic use of language is a perfectly reasonable rhetorical technique, and strict rules of biology don't have to apply.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)So there is no parallel.
Some parallels work in art. This isn't art, in any sense of the word. It's a political statement.
Silent3
(15,206 posts)...and other tissue created in preparation for fertilization. Maybe that's not enough of a parallel for your sense of analogous concepts, but it's good enough that no one should be getting up on their high horse declaring with annoyance or disdain such an analogy to be flat-out WRONG!!1!11!
Confusious
(8,317 posts)not art.
Even if it were art, There's plenty of reason to get up on your horse when dipshits like PETA distort science. Or any dipshit for that matter.
We make fun of Republicans here all the time when they spew bullshit about, or misuse, science. Why not PETA?
(Internet as a bunch of tubes by Ted Stevens comes to mind. That was a MUCH BETTER analogy, though wrong on the face of it, and we constantly berate him for it.
Why was it better? My EE teachers used the analogy of wires as tubes, voltage as water pressure, and the water as current.)
Unless of course you like to give people a pass on lying and bullshiting when they agree with you, or happen to be on your side of the isle.
I don't.
Silent3
(15,206 posts)...so I'm not defending Peta at all. I think they're zealots who do their own cause more harm than good.
I hardly want to stand in the way of anyone making fun of Peta, Ted Stevens, or anyone else richly deserving ridicule. However, if someone had played Captain Obvious when talking about Stevens, and said with great disdain, "The internet uses SOLID wires, there's no hollow space inside, so it can't be tubes!", I would have jumped in to say that Stevens analogy wasn't all that bad, in and of itself, for certain limited uses.
What spoils such analogies for both Peta and Stevens is inept bumbling usage of those analogies. In Steven's case, he seemed so clueless that you had to wonder if he might have literally meant tubes. In Peta's case, I don't think they're deliberately misrepresenting the biology, they're just so determined to go for the gross-out factor that they're playing up a loose analogy like it's a much stronger one.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)People for the Ethical Treatment of ANIMALS.
A. If they don't know the difference, they're stupid and ignorant. They are for ANIMALS after all. Wouldn't it be smart to know basic biology if you love the animals so much?
or
B. They do know, and are purposefully distorting things to gross people out. Which is deceitful and dishonest.
So either way, they're either stupid or liars. I don't care for either.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)The analogy is completely valid.
The parallel processes of egg release among humans and chickens might be different in a few ways, but the egg release itself is similar. No, this is not art. It's simple biology.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Last edited Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:07 AM - Edit history (2)
Find me the MFing uterus.
http://www.poultryhub.org/physiology/anatomy-of-the-chicken-learning-resource/
muriel_volestrangler
(101,307 posts)yewberry
(6,530 posts)That's the UTERUS.
So yeah, it is absolutely analogous.
Confusious
(8,317 posts)If it makes a MFing egg, then it's an ovary.
shell gland: "Zoology a gland in certain invertebrates that secretes the components required for forming the shell of an egg"
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shell+gland
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shell+gland
Chickens are vertebrates.
Seriously, remedial biology classes for you.
"Might as well call a horse a dog, it's analogous" Hyuck, Hyuck.
Find me the MFing uterus on this picture:
http://www2.ca.uky.edu/afspoultry-files/pubs/Anatomy_Female_reproductive.pdf
muriel_volestrangler
(101,307 posts)That has actually backed up the used of 'uterus' as an alternate name for 'shell gland' in chicken reproductive biology.
Not that I think the PETA 'menstruation' ad is anything other than an idiotic attempt to make a few people go "yuck - bodily processes! I never want to have anything to do with them!".
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)and point out that plants thrive on excrement and convert that in to vegetable matter.
So when you're eating a plant you're eating shit, once removed.
/at least with meat you have two degrees of separation.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)PETA is using the "ewww icky" factor to discredit eating eggs.
That could easily be applied to any food item if you try just a bit.
So as an argument goes that's pretty idiotic.
PETA has jumped the shark on this one. Or they would have if shark jumping weren't comparable to torture BECAUSE SHARKS ARE PEOPLE TOO!
Vattel
(9,289 posts)I agree that the ad is dumb. You should read the posts you respond to.
Logical
(22,457 posts)66 dmhlt
(1,941 posts)But because I HATE plants.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)There were some PETA fans giving me a hard time in a different thread, let's hear them justify this, and tell me I should feel guilty every time I eat an egg. I get the feeling it will be *crickets* on this one.
Igel
(35,300 posts)FarCenter
(19,429 posts)But the egg is laid whether it is fertilized or not. There is rarely any bleeding, and then usually only when young pullets lay a large egg.
longship
(40,416 posts)Don't listen to PETA. Period.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)PETA is making itself less and less relevant as it gets more strident.
piratefish08
(3,133 posts)yewberry
(6,530 posts)Someone has gone out in search of something to mock and come back with peta material? Imagine that! Incidentally, female chickens do actually have a uterus--it's also referred to as the shell gland.
It'd probably be more accurate to say that chicken eggs result from a process analogous to human menstruation. Better?
quinnox
(20,600 posts)thing?
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)Just like the other thread, you seem shocked that anyone would choose to be a vegan.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)Let me guess, you have no problem with the ad and think it makes a good point.
Beaverhausen
(24,470 posts)You asked the other poster if he or she agreed on the 'no eating eggs thing' - not on the ad. I know many vegans who might think this ad is stupid but still don't eat eggs.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)so I figured they might agree with the thrust of the ad, but wasn't sure.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)Hardly indignant-- just pointing out that this is the second time this week that someone has gone in search of something to be offended by and brought back peta material.
While the vegetarians and vegans at DU have varying degrees of support for peta as an organization, many of these threads dance right up to the line of insulting DUers and quite often cross it.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)What you choose to eat should be respected as should those of us who choose to eat meat and processed food. I've never understood the everybody should have to do what I do mentallity. If something works for you that's fantastic. Do it. If you don't like to eat meat. Don't eat meat. If you do like to eat meat. Eat meat. I don't see the need for either side to have hostilities toward the other.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)If there's a newsworthy story to post on the subject, go for it. But really, there's no reason to post flamebait, is there?
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)I like to dip toast in the runny yolks.
[IMG][/IMG]
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)So sorry if you had an upset.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)That's a new one to me!
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Now go back to stuffing your gob with old dead animals.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)PETA person.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)It's getting hard to tell a legitimate PETA ad from a satirical PETA ad mocking their unhinged views.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)you can't parody them. They *are* the parody.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)I eat them everyday for breaksfast. PETA needs to quit trying to get people to quit eating animals and concentrate on educating people on the abuse those animals receive. Americans are never going to quit eating animals but we could put pressure on the farmers and the distributors to treat them and kill them humanely.
mysuzuki2
(3,521 posts)These are apes (including humans), both old world and new world monkeys and tarsiers. Really, there seem to be few of the PETA extremists that know much about biology.
Retrograde
(10,133 posts)For example, the differences between mammals and birds? Or the human reproductive cycle?
Initech
(100,064 posts)piratefish08
(3,133 posts)Initech
(100,064 posts)"Damn!! I got distracted by an idiot!!"
"Hey! I know how you feel! I lost a game of tic tac toe to a chicken!!"
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)About to leave for work now. I work night shift - 12 hours. I have some turkey stew and a turkey sandwich packed in my (midnight) lunch sack.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)I cooked a pan full of chicken tighs, about to eat them now!
Sorry PETA! :p
progressoid
(49,983 posts)The last serving of turkey was enjoyed by one of our cats. Bad kitty.
flvegan
(64,407 posts)Could have otherwise been phoned in as "I didn't read into it, so I answered ignorantly"
Go ahead jury, have at it.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)This morning I had eggs with cheddar cheeese scrambled in.
flvegan
(64,407 posts)NashvilleLefty
(811 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Interesting how often that Cold War Pejorative is used on DU...
Matariki
(18,775 posts)jmowreader
(50,555 posts)I figure PETA is there to make the rest of the animal welfare groups look good by comparison. And with high-class (and wrong) ads like this one, I'm proven right time and time again.
chloes1
(88 posts)because the chicken will lay the egg whether I eat the egg or not. Chickens laid eggs before man tampered with them, I actually own chickens so I have no problem eating their eggs.
It's the factory conditions that are so abhorrent; at least to me.
geardaddy
(24,926 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)They want to be vegans. Fine. Totally fine personal decision. But they act like a bunch of petulant teenagers wanting to shock everyone into their shiny new life style.
Fuck off peta. Grow up and do something actually useful.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Never met an evangelist of any sort that didn't make my fist itch.
liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)this is tasteless (no pun intended).
MADem
(135,425 posts)Every time they do a good thing, like call attention to lab animals being tortured, they fuck it up and make themselves look like morons and whack-a-doodles when they do stupidd shit like this!
geardaddy
(24,926 posts)they should just point out that eggs come out of the same hole as waste.
The cloaca.
That said, I'll take my sunny side up, please.
earthside
(6,960 posts)First I looked for the original source just to make sure that this wasn't some kind of disinformation meant to smear PETA.
But it is PETA: http://www.peta.org/features/would-you-eat-a-chickens-period.aspx
So, the PETA tactic seems to be that any publicity is good publicity, especially if they can make the news by offending average, ordinary folks who are trying the best they can to survive in this economy.
Well, even for those who might at some level be sympathetic, this kind of 'publicity' tends to make PETA what apparently it is: a joke.
But what do they care? Always some celebrity ready to be pictured for their cause ... that's an effective message for regular folks ... millionaires who have the luxury to be 'vegans' ... ( yeah, really, I'll bet ).
DinahMoeHum
(21,784 posts)and consequently got banned from their site.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)if someone collected their already expelled menstrual fluids from the toilet, and consumed them. (Presuming the female herself had no interest in doing so herself.)
In fact, menstrual fluid probably is an excellent source of iron and protein . . .
People eat placentas, right? Wouldn't it be like eating a pre-placenta?
Maybe PETA has an idea here, they just don't know it!
yawnmaster
(2,812 posts)or were naturally born without one.
( I don't go for chickens that have been genetically modified by man to not have a uterus).
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Just flat out a crazy organization.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Good for any meal ... can be prepared many different ways ... so tasty!
Just this past weekend, we fried eggs, we scrambled eggs, put crumbled hard boiled eggs on salad, whipped up a perfect meringue for the banana pudding. As an ingredient in other dishes, the egg's uses are myriad!
Mmmmmmmm ... eggs!
Bake
Hekate
(90,645 posts)My 4 hens are happy girls. My neighbors love the extra eggs I give away, and one of my neighbors likes my hens so much he got some of his own.
Having backyard chickens is easy, once you decide to do it. It doesn't get much more humane than letting them peck around in their space (in our case, a fenced side yard), putting out chicken kibble, and giving them a lot of your leftovers.
The more we promote that idea, the fewer chicken factories there will be. Working for tough regulations on said factories would help too.
But PETA? I think they live to gross people out, not come up with creative solutions for the problems they pose. Honestly, that ad is disgusting. But who in hell is going to give up scrambled eggs for breakfast because of it? I have no respect for them or their tactics.
In Hawai'ian the word for egg is hua moa: the fruit of the chicken. Just as it doesn't hurt an orange tree to pluck fruit from it, it doesn't hurt a naturally kept chicken to take its highly nutritious and delicious egg away every day.
Hekate
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)I'd have a lot more respect for them if they stopped obsessing on women's body hair and bodily functions. Asshats.
BlueMan Votes
(903 posts)i know i'd like a fresh omelet for breakfast once in awhile...
gort
(687 posts)Do chickens have talons?