General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBreaking - the US has called for an immediate cease fire in Gaza
about time
US drafted a UN resolution with the demand
Keep on meeting with ReTHUGs Bibi
marble falls
(60,386 posts)Nanjeanne
(5,398 posts)Just heard that this resolution is still being negotiated and is not final. But hopefully it will be strong and soon.
malaise
(275,650 posts)Nanjeanne
(5,398 posts)BWdem4life
(2,172 posts)If the hostages are even still alive, Hamas will not release them. They know Biden is under pressure to stop the carnage and they don't care about the Palestinian people who are also their hostages. To them, releasing the Israeli hostages would be a sign of weakness and they cannot afford to show any weakness.
JMO
enid602
(8,872 posts)And if the hostages are still alive, theyll likely starve soon.
ripcord
(5,553 posts)That was the plan all along but Hamas keeps rejecting it. How horrible dor the hostages and the fact that Israel is forced to negotiate with terrorist trash.
Johnny2X2X
(21,125 posts)Israel has the right to defend itself and there can be no lasting peace with Hamas in power. But the humanitarian crisis is too dire to keep fighting right now. Hamas needs to relase all the hostages and the fighting needs to stop.
TheKentuckian
(25,725 posts)That is the set up.
That is unfortunate but also beyond anyone's power that has any desire to make it otherwise.
None of that changes that Hamas has to go and they got to go now not in some "aspirational" sense.
edhopper
(34,441 posts)the anti-Biden Palestinian supporters?
meow2u3
(24,883 posts)They never supported nor voted for Biden to begin with. I think they're mostly Republicans posing as former Biden voters; I've seen this scam repeatedly for years. Let's not fall for it.
Gaugamela
(2,542 posts)More than 100 donors and activists, including a handful who have given six-figure sums to President Biden, signed a letter arguing that progressive anger could help Donald Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/19/us/politics/biden-donors.html
Im amused you think Republicans support the Palestinians. Mike Johnson wants to invite Netanyahu to address Congress, bypassing State Department protocols. Remember when the GOP gave the finger to Obama with this theater in 2015? Religious nationalism and white European colonialism whats not for a Republican to love?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/21/politics/benjamin-netanyahu-address-congress-mike-johnson/index.html
womanofthehills
(9,131 posts)Lots of arguments and mean fights among Democrats- half and half - some say they will not vote or vote 3 rd party over the genocide.
louis-t
(23,495 posts)They can't even get someone to run for pres.
BannonsLiver
(17,474 posts)The end of Israel is the only thing that would scratch that itch.
MuchBetterThanThis
(41 posts)My wife and I worked soo hard to get Biden elected but she and many others wont forgive him.
However, on the good side, they WILL not vote for Trump. Some may stay home or write-in.
Also, that goes the same for Pro-Israel democrats that wont agree with Bidens current stance.
So its a wash that only equals trouble for Biden, and Democracy, in the end👎🏽
Ocelot II
(119,347 posts)Not voting for Biden is voting for Trump, including not voting at all. Does anyone seriously think Trump would improve the situation for the Palestinians? The guy who wanted to ban Muslims from the U.S.? He'd probably nuke Gaza if he could. To those who are so pure that they say their precious conscience won't allow them to vote for Biden on account of this situation, I say Fuck your conscience; you're delivering the whole country into the hands of a fascist lunatic.
ForgedCrank
(2,065 posts)don't think any of these people will follow through. Anyone can talk, and this is an opportune time for threats and pressure, whatever. It's not that I don't understand their frustrations. But when election day comes around, none of them are going to stay home, they will be at the booth voting for Biden.
sarisataka
(20,448 posts)Of those who said they wouldnt vote for Hillary as a protest. Everyone (almost) was so sure they would either come around or not be needed in the landslide.
Steven Maurer
(488 posts)The people, if you look at the crosstabs, that didn't show up for Hillary (who'd showed up for President Obama) were black men.
That's not all of what went wrong, but it was significant enough to throw the election.
brush
(56,468 posts)Ridiculous. Black men voted in the high 80s percentile for Hillary, and Black women in the '90s percentile.
Place the blame where it belongs...on white men and women who wouldn't vote for a womam. And don't forget Comey announcing an investigation against a laptop of a Hillary staffer 11 days before the election.
And in addition there was the Jill Stein factor, another white woman.
You're dead wrong to blame it on Black men.
Steven Maurer
(488 posts)No one is saying that black men didn't vote heavily for Hillary. But it was a significant reduction of the vote Barack Obama got from the same constituency.
It wasn't that they voted for Trump. It's just that an election-outcome-changing number of them just decided not to vote at all.
This may be an inconvenient truth, but it's still truth.
brush
(56,468 posts)And see post 131.
JohnSJ
(94,956 posts)swing states Jill Stein received 1% of the vote.
It didn't much, and they didn't. They followed the advice of the Susan Sarandon's, David Sirota, Nina Turner, Brihana Joy Gray, and Cornell West, and without a doubt it contributed to 4 years of trump in the WH, the overturning of Roe and the Supreme Court we have today.
skylucy
(3,820 posts)edisdead
(3,166 posts)Sorry but that about as dumb as can be. Tell her to enjoy authoritarianism. It will work out great for women I am sure.
W_HAMILTON
(8,226 posts)JohnSJ
(94,956 posts)I don't care what rationalization is used. THERE IS NO GOOD SIDE TO THAT.
It means they don't give a damn about Women's rights, worker's rights, civil rights, the environment, and most important, they don't give a damn if we lose our DEMOCRACY.
This is same crap used by those in 2016 that helped trump into the White House.
Isn't that wonderful.
In 2016 in every swing state Hillary lost by less than 1%, and in every one of those critical swing states, Jill Stein received 1% of the vote.
If they cannot see the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BIDEN PRESIDENCY AND a trump one, then THEY deserve trump
BootinUp
(48,386 posts)for fucking decades.
2naSalit
(91,001 posts)It takes time to go through the process, we don't have an emperor or kind who can make demands on other countries regarding policy. In this case, the country in question is receiving considerable support from us due to treaties of the past... which are being blatantly violated by bibi who leads that country and directing the offensive actions.
And that gives us cause to take more decisive action like this.
Nuances many fail to recognize. Negotiations work but incrementalism is the bugaboo of our time.
PCIntern
(26,453 posts)thered be an immediate cease fire and there would have been for weeks now. If they had taken 200+ American hostages, having mutilated while alive, tortured, and murdered 1200 Americans we would have sent the 101st Airborne and 50000 ground troops and laid waste to the territory. No ifs ands or buts. Release whats left of the hostages, motherfuckers.
TheKentuckian
(25,725 posts)as long as it is Hamas that does the firing.
Please release these hostages, kind sirs but absolutely feel free to take more.
Massacres encouraged and rape on!
PCIntern
(26,453 posts)CincyDem
(6,860 posts)I can easily see an approach from Hamas that they release all ("wink wink" ) the surviving hostages and then, at some point convenient to Hamas or their puppetmasters...they announce "what do you know - we found 6 more hostages and here's what we want for them".
Nothing from them would surprise me.
added: you're right about the US response.
BunkieBandit
(97 posts)Brenda
(1,306 posts)Conflating Hamas with the Palestinian people who live in Gaza is an effort to label all Palestinians as terrorists and therefore they should all be laid to waste. Murder them all, filthy Palestinians you keep saying.
I don't understand why DU allows you to spew your bigotry.
emulatorloo
(45,485 posts)It isn't nice to put words in other peoples mouths they did not say.
womanofthehills
(9,131 posts)Netanyahu never said it would.
Donkees
(32,114 posts)US now pushes UN to back 'immediate' Gaza ceasefire to free hostages
By Michelle Nichols March 5, 2024 8:07 PM EST
UNITED NATIONS, March 5 (Reuters) - The United States on Tuesday revised language in a draft United Nations Security Council resolution to back "an immediate ceasefire of roughly six-weeks in Gaza together with the release of all hostages," according to the text seen by Reuters.
The third revision of the text - first proposed by the U.S. two weeks ago - now reflects blunt remarks by Vice President Kamala Harris. The initial U.S. draft had shown support for "a temporary ceasefire" in the Israel-Hamas war.
Washington had been averse to the word ceasefire.
It has vetoed three draft council resolutions - two of which would have demanded an immediate ceasefire - during the five-month-long war. Most recently, the U.S. justified its veto by saying that such council action could jeopardize efforts by the U.S., Egypt and Qatar to broker a pause in the war and the release of hostages.
The United States has said it plans to allow time for negotiations on its draft and will not rush to a vote. To pass, a resolution needs at least nine votes in favor and no vetoes by the U.S., France, Britain, Russia or China.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-now-pushes-un-back-immediate-gaza-ceasefire-free-hostages-2024-03-06/
Sky Jewels
(8,602 posts)I hope this isn't just window dressing.
Ping Tung
(1,096 posts)AllyCat
(16,803 posts)October 7th was an atrocity. Starving and killing people is not the solution.
nowforever
(378 posts)It's become a slaughter now the notion it's a war is ridiculous. No justification for this level of revenge and retribution. You've obliterated most of Gaza your mission to nullify Hamas is accomplished now to the World it seems like unmitigated genocide.
TheKentuckian
(25,725 posts)still at least supposedly hold hostages, and still have the same intent.
The same but even more dangerous with Hezbollah with Iran behind them and other groups is true.
The demand is for this to continue and then escalate.
The insistence here is for impunity for the terrorists to do their damndest and any effort to stop them faces at least condemnation.
Fuck that noise. It seems there is no option left but to settle all family business so goodbye regional stability.
TomDaisy
(2,120 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,725 posts)the current toll?
Yeah, the whole thing could be wrapped up really quickly if the aim is to just annihilate all that lives in the area.
I don't see how that is preferable just to fit within your timeline.
What do you think this is, Granada or something?
Richard D
(9,192 posts). . . will be the day that Hamas will regroup, rearm, and plan for the next attack on Israeli civilians.
Avalon Sparks
(2,569 posts)Hamas can claim all it wants that their goal is to drive Israel out of existence, but they have neither the military nor the money to do so. Nor do they have the support of most of their Middle East neighbors except for Iran, so Israel as a country is not under threat.
I heard an interview recently during which the interviewee said that Israel must fight because its people have nowhere to go. Palestinians have nowhere to go either, yet Israelis think it is just fine to force them to leave all of Palestine. It is duplicitous to believe that only Israelis have rights to the land because some ancestors lived there many thousands of years ago but Palestinians whose ancestors have lived there as a majority for the most recent thousand years have no rights at all.
Richard D
(9,192 posts). . you seem to forget what Hamas did to Israel on October 7.
Response to Richard D (Reply #29)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Avalon Sparks (Reply #44)
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Response to Post removed (Reply #47)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
Butterflylady
(3,873 posts)For telling the truth.
Richard D
(9,192 posts). . . I guess the exact number of Palestinians as Israelis should have been killed to keep it fair? I wonder how that could be arranged. Volunteers? Lottery? Should the same number be tortured, raped, kidnapped and kept in horrific conditions for six months? Dismembered? Burned to death?
We'd have to also match their ages and professions and family size to be fair, no? Sounds like a sci fi movie.
I'm struck that only a million German civilians were killed in WWII. It really should have gone up to at least 12 million, probably a whole lot more to be fair.
The Japanese killed very few American civilians, yet we killed almost half a million Japanese civilians just in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Highly disproportionate! Why wasn't America charged with genocide and crimes against humanity? Certainly the allied forces should have been so charged for all the German civilians killed.
Sounds like a plot for a B grade scifi movie.
Response to Richard D (Reply #48)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
Richard D
(9,192 posts). . . I did not mention nor did I approve of the disastrous bombing of Iraq and Afghanistan. It's one of the reasons I joined DU after 9/11.
Japan? I don't really know. The world would be a very different place had Japan walked away from WWII victorious. Germany, I do know. If the Nazis had won WWII, and they could have done so, this world would be hell. Oddly, both Japan and Germany quickly evolved into peaceful world powers after their defeat. I don't think anyone holds animosity to those two nations now. Nor do they hold animosity towards the nations who helped defeat them.
This is a very great difference in the the Gazans, who still hold hatred towards Israel. Notice I did not say Palestinians as 250,000 live in Israel as citizens, something that was available to all Palestinians who lived there when Israel was established. Sadly, for whatever reason, many chose instead to hold hatred and separation for 75 years.
So, yes. My preference is no deaths, but I cannot ignore nor deny nor ever forget what Hamas did on October 7, as many non-Jews seem to have done.
I love the idea of a cease-fire, but if there is a cease-fire today, by tomorrow, Hamas will be regrouping, rearming, digging new terror tunnels, and making plans for the next horrors they will unleash on Israel. These are their words, written in their charter.
The best option is for Hamas to release all the hostages and surrender. They are losing this war, and they know it. So let's have a cease-fire, which will be celebrated as a victory by Hamas. And so the pain, suffering, and deaths will continue and be repeated over and over.
Yes, it is tragic that there are any deaths from war. But that is war. Hopefully, they and the rest of the world will learn that the best and surest way to avoid the deaths of innocents in a war is not to start one. But they refuse to learn that, and so, a cease-fire may be imposed on Israel, but weeks, months, or years in the future, Hamas will attack Israel again. Israel will respond, and the world, with an attention span of a gnat, will again condemn Israel and rinse and repeat. Perhaps I am wrong, but I would put money on it. A lot of money.
Gaza could be a modern paradise. But not with Hamas or any other iteration of ISIS/Muslim Brotherhood. When the people really want peace, I assure you that Israelis will do whatever they are capable of doing to help lift Gaza up into a truly beautiful and peaceful place. I would also bet money on that.
Butterflylady
(3,873 posts)And I'm sure a lot of people here will disagree with me on that. But, our country is paying for that now. Israel will not be and will never be gone.
A lot of you say that if a ceasefire will let Hamas reorganize and attack Israel again. That is just ludicrous and silly. I'm sure Israel has learned from that attack.
It's one thing to retaliate for the attack, but to do what Israel is doing now is entirely wrong. Hopefully they'll learn before it's to late, and by that I mean Netanyahu. He is leading the country down the wrong path and the whole country will pay.
Richard D
(9,192 posts)... The actions of the allied forces in WW2 that killed over the a million German civilians also wrong?
TheKentuckian
(25,725 posts)is just that itself.
Your only supporting rationale is your own espoused certainty of what Israel has learned and then we have to assume an inference that such learning is on such a grand scale as to make a repeat cranked all the way up to "ludicrous and silly".
What this is based on who possibly knows.
Right and wrong? I don't even see a firm handle on reason.
EX500rider
(11,291 posts)....until they surrendered, then we stopped.
Israel is in the same mood, surrender or die, your choice.
Response to EX500rider (Reply #68)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
EX500rider
(11,291 posts)MichMan
(12,677 posts)EX500rider
(11,291 posts)sarisataka
(20,448 posts)With your opinion of the U.S right/wrongness.
Is the new morality of the modern world he who strikes first is in the right?
What is your opinion of Ukraine fighting rather than submitting?
Response to sarisataka (Reply #88)
Post removed
emulatorloo
(45,485 posts) the US has involved themselves mostly to enrich the defense industry here, and Id be surprised if there wasnt a great deal of money laundering occurring involving the funds we sent to the Ukraine, theres been no accountability.
Also do you have reputable sources that indicate Putin will negotiate? All his actions so far indicate otherwise.
sarisataka
(20,448 posts)the likely outcome would be the eastern Oblasts would now be Russian territory, Zelensky would be in prison or dead and a puppet of Putin would tule in Kyiv. Alternately 'the Ukraine' would again be a province of the Russian empire.
The future hopes for peace would involve an emboldened Russia sitting at the borders of Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania.
A bit of history on the Second Sino-Japanese War. After provoking the Marco Polo Bridge incident to justify an invasion in July of 1937, Japan advanced, seizing the capital Nanjing in December of the same year. After the city fell, the Japanese soldiers went on a six week spree of murder and rape. Since there was no documentation the estimates vary widely. In that time 40-300,000 people were killed and 20-80,000 women raped.
It doesn't require a nuclear weapon to kill masses of people. Bayonets work just as well, it only takes longer.
Mossfern
(2,932 posts)Really!
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)When a terrorist group, supported by the people of Gaza, rapes and massacres thousands of Israeli civilians. Do you think the U.S. should have stopped attacking Japan once it had killed more than the 2,403 Americans who died at Pearl Harbor? Thats not how war works, so why are you blaming Israel for waging war?
Response to TexasDem69 (Reply #85)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Who is shooting the Israeli soldiers?
Id say you are a super, super-minority on the WW2 and 9-11 issues but thanks for responding on that piece. I personally supported the U.S. in both instances.
Response to TexasDem69 (Reply #93)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
sarisataka
(20,448 posts)What should have been Israel's actions following 10/7?
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)And I dont recall a single post against the actions in Afghanistan. Iraq was 2 years later and was plainly based on bad intel, and perhaps simply fabricated.
The problem with the response to 9-11 was that the US didnt take more proactive steps to prevent it from happening in the first place.
Avalon Sparks
(2,569 posts)I was so happy to find so many like minded people here, especially about Afghanistan.
No reason for either of us to lie.
Response to TexasDem69 (Reply #85)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Other than lay down arms and let Hamas commit another 10/7 massacre a month from now, and again a month after that, and again a month after that? I support Israels right to exist, despite Hamas stated intent to kill every Jew in the Middle East. Supporting Israel is what every single Democrat on DU should do. Its morally correct and consistent with our liberal ideals.
I dont understand as a compassionate human being how you dont support Israels right to defend its citizens and its efforts to both prevent future attacks by Hamas and bring to justice those responsible for 10/7.
Response to TexasDem69 (Reply #96)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
CincyDem
(6,860 posts)...a global propaganda network that plays into subconscious tropes nurtured over generations.
When you say "Palestinians have nowhere to go either"...ask yourself, why is that? Why is it that Egypt keeps it's borders closed to their Arab/Muslim neighbors...or Saudi...or Tunisia...or...or...or. With consistency, countries throughout the Arab world have resisted any kind of Palestinian immigration. Wonder why? I think it's because the more complete phrase is "Palestinians have nowhere to go that will tolerate/accept their single minded jihad to kill Jews anywhere in the world"...yeah...I can see why Saudi or Egypt doesn't want to give that, and everything that goes along with it, a home.
Israel proper - excluding the WB and Gaza - is over 20% Palestinian, second only to Jordan. They're teachers, doctors, lawyers, politicians, Knesset members...fully functioning members of Israeli society. They're descendants of Palestinians who, in 1948, accepted Israels invitation to stay and peacefully be part of accepting and growing this new country.
That said, a large group of Palestinians in 1948 decided they'd listen to their Arab neighbors who urged them to stay committed to their "Let's Kill Jews" way of life. Their descents are the refugees of Gaza/WB who haven't given up on that mantra and the Arab world has been using them as their weapon to terrorize Israel ever since.
Response to CincyDem (Reply #35)
Post removed
NickB79
(19,489 posts)You really don't believe there's a global Palestinian propaganda network?
Response to NickB79 (Reply #54)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
Zeitghost
(4,249 posts)From the river to the sea is a direct call for the elimination of the state of Israel.
Butterflylady
(3,873 posts)That saying is used by both parties. So please don't call anyone ignorant if you don't know that.
Zeitghost
(4,249 posts)And despite your efforts to bothsides it, it's used almost exclusively by those who seek the destruction of Israel.
brush
(56,468 posts)sarisataka
(20,448 posts)If so, you are simply ignorant of the many who wish to see Israel become a historical footnote.
At worst, you are lying to yourself that the ultimate goal of Hamas and others is a Jew free Palestine.
Response to sarisataka (Reply #65)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
EX500rider
(11,291 posts)I wonder what "By any means necessary" means...I am guessing not hugs & kisses
?w=525
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Then you support Hamas and Hamas stated intention to eliminate Israel and its citizens. I dont generally think that folks on DU are Hamas supporters, but thats pretty indisputable.
CincyDem
(6,860 posts)In fact, ask them to point to Gaza on a map.
sarisataka
(20,448 posts)But I think the post speaks clearly. I just want to make one adjustment
Something that the U.S. gov and most US and UK media have shamefully endorsed, because of "Israels" funding or them as part of their global propaganda network.
You are claiming Israel, or most honestly "Israel" is funding the US government and most US and UK media. Do you have a shred of evidence to back this claim of hidden influence or is it just known?
Response to CincyDem (Reply #35)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
CincyDem
(6,860 posts)To be clear, what I was saying is that Palestinians who are overwhelmingly Muslim seem to be unwelcome in other countries that are overwhelmingly Muslim. I highlighted Egypt and Saudi specifically because they are, like Palestinians, overwhelmingly Sunni Muslim.
In response, you asked if I blame the Jewish people when no one wanted them in their own countries. Prior to 1948, the high water mark for Jewish populations was 1938 in Europe, when Jews represented just under 2%, a percentage reduced to just over 0.5% by 1946. So I think your real question is if I blame the Jewish people for their refugee status when no overwhelmingly non-Jewish populations wanted them in their countries.
And youre right
the answer is of course not but thats not an applicable comparison.
Jews have been the nomadic others for millennium since Cyrus the Great conquered Judes hundreds of years BC. Be it the Germans in WWII, the Russians & Turks in WWI, or Rome during the Spanish Inqusition
Jews have been blamed for everything from the Plague to Infant Death to taking the sun away during solar eclipses. And that doesnt even include the whole Good Friday revisionist history thing.So its easy for the 98% to lay societal blames at the feet of the most visible minority, independent of any truth. And its the same today with Republicans and immigrants (the generic other).
My point was that there are countries that are 95% plus Sunni Muslim and instead of reaching out to other Sunni Muslims in great pain (not just recently but for 75+ years)
instead of giving them a sanctuary, theyre building taller/thicker/longer walls to keep them out. Dont believe me? Look at Egypts wall along southern Gaza
puts any prison wall built by Israel to shame.
They dont have no where to go
they have many places to go who will not tolerate their terrorist activites. In fact, as I said, they had somewhere to go in 1948 and the precedents of todays Gaza residents said Nope - our commitment to kill Jews is stronger than I desired to life comfortably in peace. And its been that way ever since.
Response to CincyDem (Reply #104)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
CincyDem
(6,860 posts)When you propose that the Palestinian people are under a similar horror as the Jewish were in Germany then [referring to WWII Germany]. That invites a comparison and the most objective measure is the numbers - as gruesome as that maybe.
Best measure I find for Gaza fatalities to date is about 30,000 over the past 5 1/2 months. Lets ignore that this likely includes Hamas fighters embedded in the civilian population. 30k is about 1.5% of the population of Gaza.
At its peak in 1945, Germany would consider 30k dead jews as a bad week. Think about that
as upset as the world is about the past 5 1/2 month response to Hamas terrorist attack of 10/7 and their continued hostage holding
imagine what it would take to kill 30k Palestinians in 7 days. For the record, once Germany got their camps and rail lines running, Jews were being killed at the rate of 40k per week
for 3 years. 6,000 systemically killed every day on average for almost 1,100 consecutive days. But thats just an average
peak holocaust in the summer of 1942 was 15,000 per day for almost 4 months. Ovens and gas chambers working 24/7. When it was all over, Europes Jewish population dropped from 9 million to just over 3 million
4 years to kill 66% of European Jews.
Wrap your mind around that
as ugly as Gaza is
it was 2 days work for the Germans when they were at their best (or worst, I guess).
Just wanted to offer up some objective data to help you consider the difference between whats happening to Palestinians in Gaza vs. Jews in Germany. That doesnt make Gaza nothing but its sure not Germany and Im not sharing this to poo-poo the casualties in Gaza. But lets be realistic here - there is no similarity between the two circumstances.
Im not even going to wade into the land question except to say youre right
Gaza is prime seaside real estate (as I think Jared recently pointed out). Over the past 30-40 years, billions and billions of dollars of foreign aid have been poured into Gaza. If the Palestinian leadership spent that money on development for their region vs. building terrorist capability
sheesh
Gaza would be the fing Riviera of the Middle East. But that wasnt their priority.
brush
(56,468 posts)something he didn't do after being warned months before Oct. 7 that a big attack was coming.
Then waiting multiple hours to deploy IDF forces against the attackers. That delay has never been explained.
Israel needs to kick corrupt Netanyahu to the curb asap. He's just fighting to keep himself out of jail.
flashman13
(836 posts)He has the leverage. He can pick up the phone and give Bibi a call. The message is simple. He, Biden, is going to tell Bibi that he is turning off the switch. There will be no more military aid. There will be no more monetary aid. All official U.S. and Israeli contacts will be suspended. The switch will remain off until there is a cease fire and humanitarian aid to Gaza is restored. End of conversation.
By doing this Biden will prevent a humanitarian catastrophe. It will also give Israel a chance to avoid becoming a world pariah and lose any moral credibility it might still have.
It will be a tough call, but very often doing the right thing is tough.
flashman13
(836 posts)by David Rothkopf, a former senior U.S. government official and the author of ten books on foreign policy and politics.
Let me quote: "As bad as the Hamas attack on Israel on October 7 was, the people and government of Israel must now recognize that today not just the country's security but its legitimacy are at stake as never before."
Mountainguy
(927 posts)Fills their bellies, and launches more attacks...... what will you call for then?
flashman13
(836 posts)Mountainguy
(927 posts)If you forget there was a cease fire that Hamas broke already
But go on expecting anything different from a people who have been picking this fight for 75 years
Butterflylady
(3,873 posts)TheKentuckian
(25,725 posts)The appropriate and customary unconditional surrender of Hamas not Israel who they attacked under such circumstances is what needed for peace.
Things work out better for folks when they refrain from raping, rampaging, murdering, and hostage taking and you damn sure don't have room to make any fucking demands or sick blubbering about the consequences of your own depravity.
Humanitarian my ass!
Surrender, release the hostages, cease the attacks, and put down the genocidal aspirations forever or hell yes your capacity to persecute those aims will be rightfully relentlessly quelled.
Humanitarian!?!
Motherfuckers will twist anything ever to prop these fucks up.
flashman13
(836 posts)that they have locked into a ghetto. That's a fact. There is nothing righteous about it. How many dead, the majority of which will be women and children, will it take to satisfy you? Will two million be enough?
Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and Mao killed tens of millions of people through starvation. If this situation in Gaza does not change very soon, you will be able to add Netanyahu to that list.
I suggest you read the Haaretz article. It won't change your mind, but at least you will have to look at the children you are condemning.
If this post sounds harsh, it is because that is my intent. I quit posting on this subject months ago because I could not stand the endless diatribes of hateful talking points. But I will not remain silent.
https://archive.is/KXavj#selection-1307.4-1307.13
Avalon Sparks
(2,569 posts)Feel the same
TheKentuckian
(25,725 posts)I prefer that be zero but however many it takes.
Even now they make demands leveraging their own people's suffering on the terms of a ceasefire they swear to break in explosive fashion to stop the suffering they brought down on their people by using them as some perverse force fields and failing that bloody shirts to waive for their propaganda campaign.
The brass on some fucks without honor!
They can burn in hell.
Motherfuck a ceasefire.
SURRENDER UNCONDITIONALLY!
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)And would have been better off staying silent. Hamas is responsible for the ongoing deaths and Hamas can end it by releasing hostages and surrendering its murderers and rapists. Because Hamas is comprised of cowards, rapists, and murderers it wont, so the bloodshed continues. Any post on DU that doesnt acknowledge this simple, indisputable fact is wrong.
Goddessartist
(2,066 posts)and thank you. Good thing my internet was down most of yesterday...
onecaliberal
(35,151 posts)onecaliberal
(35,151 posts)Period!
Response to onecaliberal (Reply #83)
Post removed
onecaliberal
(35,151 posts)Fozzledick
(3,886 posts)They're openly trying to expand their genocidal war against Israel to the West bank and Lebanon.
Butterflylady
(3,873 posts)I'm flabbergasted by it. It is so not true that I don't know what to say except that you must love Netanyahu..because he's doing exactly that to the Palestinians.
PatrickforB
(14,962 posts)Sigh.
In the meantime kids are starving to death right in front of our faces.
Biden is doing great!
Goodheart
(5,760 posts)It makes no sense to supply Israel with bombs at the same time we're trying to feed people who are being bombed.
lindysalsagal
(21,963 posts)Ace Rothstein
(3,271 posts)twodogsbarking
(11,735 posts)Aristus
(67,683 posts)Israel has violated over forty UN resolutions, and no invasion in sight.
sarisataka
(20,448 posts)Aristus
(67,683 posts)But that's the point; we shouldn't have invaded Iraq. Certainly not over U.N. resolutions. I think the U.N. is an important organization, and General Assembly resolutions should be taken seriously. But if they're not going to be taken seriously, or else enforced indifferently, or with a self-serving political agenda, we need some genuine reform.
Mosby
(17,051 posts)Passed in 2023 (about human rights) were about Israel. Seems like an unhealthy obsession.
Eta link:
https://unwatch.org/2023-unga-resolutions-on-israel-vs-rest-of-the-world/
This is what modern antisemitism looks like.
Response to Mosby (Reply #53)
Avalon Sparks This message was self-deleted by its author.
EX500rider
(11,291 posts)Seems unlikely what with N Korea having 200,000 in internment camps, 18 million nearing starvation in the Sudan, Putins deliberate attacks on civilians in Ukraine and Xi Jinpings open-air prison for the Uyghurs in China, the Talibans putting millions of Afghans at risk of starvation & imprisoning women in their homes, then we have Ethiopia doing a ethnic cleansing campaign against the Tigrayan population resulting in many deaths, sexual violence, mass detention, and the forced displacement of thousands.
Not to mention Somalia, Venezuela, Iran, etc..
But sure, it's all Israel, lol
Avalon Sparks
(2,569 posts)Those are all horrible things and we all need to focus on them as well.
I will look into more detail about the 2/3rds focus from human rights organizations.
H2O Man
(74,834 posts)Lancero
(3,086 posts)Perhaps we should consider deploying UN Peacekeepers to enforce this one?
leftstreet
(36,202 posts)Zeitghost
(4,249 posts)What Israel is doing to Hamas and Palestine, would anyone here be upset?
Defense against an enemy intent on your destruction isnt unethical, even when youre winning.
orangecrush
(21,064 posts)mahina
(18,678 posts)Winston Churchilll wasnʻt kidding.
TomDaisy
(2,120 posts)malaise
(275,650 posts)The latest draft resolution marks a further toughening of Washingtons approach amid rising global condemnation of a war in which some 32,000 Palestinians have been killed.
UN experts have also warned of an imminent famine as a result of Israels blockade.
The draft US text describes an immediate and sustained ceasefire as an imperative to protect civilians and allow for the delivery of humanitarian aid. A ceasefire would also be conditional on the release of some of the remaining captives taken by Hamas in its attack on Israel on October 7.
betsuni
(27,121 posts)JI7
(90,115 posts)Lancero
(3,086 posts)Why is the UN is against them being released?