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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIsrael Announces Large West Bank Land Seizure
Israel reported Friday the seizure of 800 hectares (1,977 acres) of land in the occupied West Bank, which activists called the largest action of its kind in decades.
Israel's Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich declared as "state lands" the area in the northern Jordan Valley, as US Secretary of State Antony Blinken arrived in Israel for Gaza war talks.
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"While there are those in Israel and the world who seek to undermine our right over the Judea and Samaria area and the country in general, we are promoting settlement through hard work and in a strategic manner all over the country," Smotrich said, using Israel's term for the West Bank.
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The United Nations human rights chief has reported a drastic acceleration in illegal settlement building since Israel's war against Hamas in Gaza began months ago, and said this risks eliminating any likelihood of a viable Palestinian state.
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https://archive.is/m2qVF
https://www.barrons.com/amp/news/israel-says-seized-800-hectares-of-west-bank-land-ca5d74c6
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WhiskeyGrinder
(26,161 posts)
Roy Rolling
(7,391 posts)It was announced by Israel’s finance minister.
Because it’s a money-making opportunity to turn Gaza into condos.
In 1990.
Welcome to 2024, condos are now timeshares and residents are hotel guests.
Funny how an ex-president steeped in phony luxury condo and golf properties guides the political future of Gaza—further into poverty, famine, and desperation. Fuck Jared.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)
enid602
(9,608 posts)The cheerleaders on this site have worked non-stop!
marble falls
(70,439 posts)
David__77
(24,500 posts)
Autumn
(48,717 posts)
Hotler
(13,717 posts)
617Blue
(2,187 posts)Luxury high rise with all amenities.
Takket
(23,429 posts)I believe they will seize Gaza and make it part of Israel. Everyone there will eventually be displaced to other places. And they’ll keep taking pieces of the West Bank as needed.
harumph
(3,084 posts)It's really difficult to get people to move from the former frame of reference to the "new" reality. I think the majority have decided that (at least) the existance of the Gaza strip is irreconcilable with the Israeli state. The West Bank may be afforded some autonomy - but Gaza, due to its location is a non-negotiable security risk. I'm not making these arguments personally - only stating what is in the minds of many Israelis. I think any two state solution was dead when that dumbass Arafat rejected the plan in 2000. The dream has been a walking deadman since then.
David__77
(24,500 posts)marble falls
(70,439 posts)
PatSeg
(51,955 posts)They view the people as vermin and they are the exterminators. I know some think the word "genocide" is an exaggeration, but what else can we call it? The whole world is watching this horror.
LiberalArkie
(19,206 posts)
SergeStorms
(19,902 posts)that it will be attacked, over and over again.
Why don't people learn?
LiberalArkie
(19,206 posts)then they can keep foreign money flowing in. Think about the great battle. Egypt and Jordan agreed to a ceasefire on 8 June, and Syria on 9 June, and it was signed with Israel on 11 June. The Six-Day War resulted in more than 20,000 fatal Arab casualties, while Israel suffered almost 1,000 fatal casualties.
Even that early on the surrounding countries were no threat to them, but they gained a lot of sympathy and even more support.
They know all they have to do is cry to their Uncle Sam and they will get the money and arms that they need. They seem to be like the rich kids in school who bully everyone and they cry to their pappy when someone punches them.
Really it is the U.S.'s fault for pampering the nation for so long that they never had to grow up.
TheRealNorth
(9,647 posts)
Goddessartist
(2,176 posts)genocide.
Chakaconcarne
(2,770 posts)It's never happened before anyway, so no risk there.
malaise
(292,188 posts)The arrogance is breath-taking
PatSeg
(51,955 posts)more money and arms from the U.S. Some years back, Netanyahu claimed that he had the U.S. wrapped around his little finger. The hubris is as you said "breath-taking".
DFW
(59,681 posts)Using ancient history to justify modern strategic moves doesn't always turn out well, though. Just ask Putin how well his attempts to grab "his" Ukrainian lands back "heim ins Reich" are going, and how well they are being received by the people who live there.
Bettie
(19,219 posts)colonizers now?
Of course there won't be a Palestinian state, it is Netanyahu's life's work to eliminate the Palestinians.
RAB910
(4,030 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)RAB910
(4,030 posts)I consider terrorism wrong, regardless of justification.
That said, much like the US actions contributed to Al Qaeda's 9/11 attack (again, not the fault of the US), Israel's actions contributed to the October 7 attack. You can not treat people like animals with no rights and not expect pushback at some point. Had Israel behaved in a legal manner and treated the Palestinians in a proper manner, October 7 would likely never have happened.
I guess an analogy would be if someone decides to wander the streets alone in a high-crime area in the middle of the night. They are not the ones at fault if they are attacked or robbed, but their actions certainly contributed to the crime happening.
IbogaProject
(5,556 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 22, 2024, 01:44 PM - Edit history (1)
Bibi had most of the troops that were supposed to be down there up in the west helping settlers take over stuff. I'm not condoning Hamas but Bibi allowed them to be funded for years by allowing deliveries of cash. Obviously I condemn all atrocities and any attacks on civilians on either side.
Mosby
(19,211 posts)Was he funding terrorism?
1.7 billion dollars in total, how much of that was given to Hamas? We don't know.
Just to be clear, the US owed the money to Iran, just like Israel collects taxes on behalf the Palestinians. Then the media turns it into something evil and conspiratorial, just like the RW did to PBO.
marble falls
(70,439 posts)... other countries spend their own money.
I don't want my taxes going to Hamas anymore than I want another penny sent to Israel. A curse on both their houses.
Red Mountain
(2,247 posts)please don't repeat right wing talking points.
IbogaProject
(5,556 posts)He never wanted one political group in both Gaza and the West Bank. The money is question was coming from Qatar. My source was Israeli newspapers. Oct 6 was as much Bibi's fault as the terrorists themselves. He willingly pulled defensive forces from the Gaza border to have them supporting settlers in the West Bank.
Mosby
(19,211 posts)President Barack Obama approved the $400 million transfer, which he had announced in January as part of the Iran nuclear deal. The money was flown into Iran on wooden pallets stacked with Swiss francs, euros and other currencies as the first installment of a $1.7 billion settlement resolving claims at an international tribunal at The Hague over a failed arms deal under the time of the Shah.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/03/politics/us-sends-plane-iran-400-million-cash/index.html
Your not aware of this?
Here's Wapo:
Was Obama’s $1.7 billion cash deal with Iran prohibited by U.S. law?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/03/01/was-obamas-1-7-billion-cash-deal-with-iran-prohibited-by-u-s-law/
So Obama allowed massive amounts of cash to be transferred to a rogue nation just like Bibi did with Hamas, except in a much smaller scale. Then when he was called out about it, Bibi made up some dumb story about preventing a two state solution by supporting Hamas.
Bibi doesn't control Israel foreign policy directly, so it's disengenous to claim that he somehow prevented a Palestinian state from coming into being. The Palestinian leadership is why there is no Palestine. Giving money to Hamas does not prevent elections.
Fatah doesn't want elections because they know Hamas will win and take over the cash flow coming thru the PA and UNWRA.
haele
(15,028 posts)To be used strictly for humanitarian purposes (food, farm equipment, medicine, etc...) and there was international oversight to the amount that would be released and disbursed.
It wasn't just dropped off in front of a government facility in Tehran with a bow and "here ya go, you're welcome" note on it.
Haele
brush
(61,033 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 22, 2024, 11:03 AM - Edit history (1)
Also, what's happened in and to Gaza is over-retaliation...one can just as easily call it terrorism too. Just because it's done by Israel doesn't justify it.
Netanyahu/Likud has gone way too far.
Response to brush (Reply #23)
Mosby This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to RAB910 (Reply #20)
Post removed
PatSeg
(51,955 posts)Mosby
(19,211 posts)Terrorism is not a simple rational response to outside pressure. It's dysfunctional and predatory behavior seen in sociopaths. The Palestinians have had many opportunities to create a country and they have turned every one down. That's not Israel's problem.
What if a woman decides to "wander the streets" alone wearing a short miniskirt in a high crime area and is raped? Did she contributed to her assault?
RAB910
(4,030 posts)The Israeli prime minister said that he had long opposed a Palestinian state because it would constitute “an existential danger to Israel.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/21/world/middleeast/netanyahu-biden-israel-palestinian-state.html?searchResultPosition=5
Also, while I consider terrorism immoral, it is more than understandable. When powerful people mistreat vulnerable people badly enough and for long enough, the mistreated reach a point where they have nothing to lose.
Mosby
(19,211 posts)Whether it was because of Russia's involvement in Syria or not, it was a stupid, irrational, psychotic thing to do. Putin of all people will make them pay, he follows his own rules and doesn't care what others think.
TiberiusB
(524 posts)It assumes that all the deals offered by Israel were fair and equitable, ignoring Netanyahu's avowed plan to never allow a two state solution to occur.
It assumes that all Palestinians are responsible for the actions of some of their leadership despite the fact that more than 50% are currently underage and only about 44% voted for Hamas in 2006.
It assumes that all terrorism is the result of the actions of a deranged, dangerous few, ignoring those believing they have no other recourse but to resort to violence to achieve profoundly personal goals, which may be religious, ideological, geographical (homeland), etc.
Here's three links, none of which use the term "sociopath" to explain terrorist group recruits:
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-studies-explore-why-ordinary-people-turn-terrorist
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23531390-700-anatomy-of-terror-what-makes-normal-people-become-extremists/
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/11/terrorism
TiberiusB
(524 posts)Would have been to build up the economy in Gaza by linking it to Israel. If the economic security and comfort of the Palestinians depended on Israel, there would be no Hamas. Hamas didn't exist until 1987, coming into existence in response to the first intifada against the Israeli occupation.
It's easy in the West to look down on those who resort to violence, given that most have never experienced conditions such as those in Gaza. It's not an excuse for it, but if you feel you have no options, no future, no hope, isn't lashing out or grasping at anyone who offers you some course of action predictable if not excusable?
“Maybe when people longed for a thing that bad, the longing made them trust in anything that might give it to them.”
That's from The Heart is a Lonely Hunter.
I think of it when I see poor rural republicans slit their own throats at the ballot box, or when I see the desperate lured by promises of throngs of virgins, or just simple vengeance, into flying into skyscrapers or strapping explosives to their chest.
Bettie
(19,219 posts)nothing happens in a vacuum.....there are usually pieces from multiple places and times that lead up to actions.
People refuse to accept that Israel doesn't have "clean" hands in this whole situation...October 7th didn't just happen out of the blue, it was the end result of a whole lot of other factors, many of them exacerbated by Netanyahu himself.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)What other atrocities will be defended?
brush
(61,033 posts)Israel settlers just announced today another huge tract of land in the west bank that was taken over by Israel from the Palestinians. Do you get that?
Try impartiality.
What Hamas did on Oct. 7 was horrendous, so is what the IDF has done to Gaza.
Neither side has clean hands. That certainly shouldn't be hard to understand.
Iggo
(49,581 posts)EndlessWire
(8,103 posts)They don't care what the world thinks. They don't care how bad it looks. They're really making a mistake.
Wounded Bear
(63,753 posts)After they finish treating it like Putin treated Chechnya.
TheRealNorth
(9,647 posts)If Biden loses, Trump will recognize the land theft.
Wounded Bear
(63,753 posts)yardwork
(68,883 posts)All Mixed Up
(597 posts)He's not really pushing back at the idea.
So, there's two likely options:
1. He supports it
2. He's weak and not willing to push back against Israel.
LakeVermilion
(1,473 posts)It justifies the land theft.
No one will notice the coincidence’s.
BannonsLiver
(20,199 posts)PatSeg
(51,955 posts)But with Netanyahu I wouldn't be surprised if it were true. He is fighting for his political life and god help anyone who gets in the way. Yet another authoritarian monster.
riversedge
(79,166 posts)This has always bothered me. There will never be any peace when Israel keeps taking land--and settles on it.
PortTack
(35,810 posts)jaxexpat
(7,794 posts)
pansypoo53219
(22,848 posts)when i researched for my paper on cannibalism, i still remember the term transferance. the bullied become the bully.
PatSeg
(51,955 posts)happen over and over again throughout history and we'll probably see it again. Absolutely chilling.
OMGWTF
(4,999 posts)
AZSkiffyGeek
(12,744 posts)former9thward
(33,424 posts)dchill
(42,660 posts)...how can Jared "develop" it?
ProudMNDemocrat
(20,548 posts)Is it any wonder why Netanyahu is losing support from around the world? His treatment of the Palestinian people is partly to blame for the actions of Hamas and Hezbulllah. His resistance to solving this issue is resulting in more Palestinians dead and lands being seized for Israeli expansion.
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)Continuing to push Palestinians off their ancestral land. Using terror to take territory, and then labeling the displaced families as the terrorists. How convenient.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)It is their "ancestral land" also.
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)But it was the post WWII colonial wave that swept in from elsewhere and forced Palestinians off their land.
I could be wrong.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)Any of them left? Very few.
What happened in 1948 that you are calling a "colonial wave"? That was a UN mandate. Not a colonial wave. That was a UN two-state solution that the Israelis accepted, and the Palestinians and Arab states rejected. That is why Palestinians left that land because they wanted to get out of the way of the Arab armies that were going to sweep the Jews into the Sea.
Now after 75 years of attacking Israel the Arabs have largely made peace with Israel and have washed their hands of the Palestinians.
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)It was all a daffy misunderstanding. There are no Palestinians since '48 and we can all move on.
Nope. No one has washed their hands of the Palestinians and no one ever will. The entire world can see them crying & dying & starving, still being pushed off their land, still being treated like dirt. A two-state solution, as intended by the mandate, is inevitable for peace & dignity. Israel can't have it all.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)You won't. They want it all.
Basic LA
(2,047 posts)But all obstinacy aside, two states will emerge. The long arc of justice demands it.
If Israel is to be safe & secure--as it must be--then a new vision for a future of coexistence can start with new leadership. It's a better use of time than bombing hospitals.
Nothing else needs to be said.
obamanut2012
(29,147 posts)David__77
(24,500 posts)It seems like something that could be stopped, if the government wanted to do so.
yardwork
(68,883 posts)Bettie
(19,219 posts)money to Israel. Clearly, if they are expanding, they don't need any aid from the US.
Cut. The. Cord.
LuvLoogie
(8,468 posts)For a year, they knew.
The ethnic cleansing of Gaza and the West Bank will continue.
This is what the Israelis want.
d_b
(7,463 posts)Fuck Israel.
Martin Eden
(15,314 posts)A Palestinian state has not been viable in the West Bank for decades. Israeli settlements and the roads connecting them slice & dice that land.
No Israeli government will force those Jewish settlers out of their homes, many of which have been lived in for generations now. Even if Netanyahu is ousted and replaced by a more liberal coalition, attempting to do so would be political suicide -- especially in the wake of the Oct 7 attack. Removal would be played to the hilt as a reward and validation for the atrocity committed by Hamas. Nor will any Israeli government simply pull out their security forces, leaving the settlers to the tender mercies of Palestinian rule.
30,000+ Palestinian deaths in retaliation for Oct 7 and the immense suffering in Gaza will not change the equation of evicting Israeli citizens from their homes in the West Bank.
While the US and much of the international community have promoted the "Two State Solution," Israeli governments have steadily been making that impossible with facts on the ground.
This has been done with the full support of the US government, even though expanding the settlements contradicts our official policy and our complaints about Israel's treatment (now decried by many as genocide) of the Palestinians. The plain fact of the matter is our financial and military aid have been unconditional, and that speaks louder than any words.
It's unclear what will happen in post-war Gaza after Netanyahu is ousted. A best case scenario is eventual Palestinian rule, by an entity that is not bent on terrorism. But that is a small parcel of land in what is a very small country in terms of square miles. Gaza alone is hardly suitable as the Two State Solution, and the hearts of many will be hardened by the slaughter and suffering.
The cycle of violence will likely continue, as will US support regardless of what Israel does.
Bettie
(19,219 posts)he comes out on top every time they try.
He IS what Israel wants....they elect him over and over.
Martin Eden
(15,314 posts)But I wouldn't have bet on Trump winning the 2016 election. Does that mean he is what America wanted?
Assigning collective blame to a voting population more or less evenly split misrepresents the public zeitgeist, IMO.
Bettie
(19,219 posts)over 16 years.
Trump had one term.
We'll talk about it if he gets another term, then we have to take some ownership of it.
But, I hear all the time "The people don't support Netanyahu"...but then, he gets elected prime minister again and again.
The far right runs the country.
Hopefully, we can release the hold of the far right here, otherwise, we're going the wrong way.
Martin Eden
(15,314 posts)All Things Must Pass.
Change is inevitable, but we don't know when or what's next.
The Fascist Grifter will die, but will he kill our democracy first?
Ron Green
(9,867 posts)Lebensraum.
Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)Many in the far and growing right wing want to reach far beyond the West Bank and Gaza to Euphrates including all of Jordan and to the Nile.