It is time for the US to withhold aid to Israel.

[edhopper]

Let me start by saying I firmly supported Israel after the brutal, unprovoked attack by Hamas. I saw the need to destroy Hamas as an effective organization, and I accepted the sad fact that there would be civilian causalities.
But that was then. Israel has the worse possible leader for this, and it is clear that Netanyahu is not after Hamas, but wants to make Gaza uninhabitable. I refuse to say it is genocide, because it is not. But it is an effort to destroy the territory.
It is time for the US to threaten to withhold aid to Israel if they don't change their campaign in Gaza.
A cease fire and allowing all aid would be a good start. I still place the blame with Hamas in this, but the respond has gone beyond what was justified.

[Ferrets are Cool]

1. "but wants to make Gaza uninhabitable"

by Palestinians.

[edhopper]

5. True

[lark]

2. I agree with your title.

I think Israel is committing genocide on the Palestinians and their refusal to let in sufficient aid showcases this. They want to remove every Palestinian from their homes and move them to an uninhabitable desert so Israel can steal the land and make it into a resort built by Jared. That is bibi's wet dream, all Palestinians dead or uprooted from their home and it is disgusting. Biden should stop every dime of aid to Israel until they stop this.

[RandySF]

3. No

“I turned around and I saw him standing there,” she said. “With the gun.”

She remembered reaching for a hand towel to cover herself as he advanced and hit her.

“He said, ‘Amit, Amit, take it off,’” she recalled. “Finally, I took it off.”

“He sat me on the edge of the bath. And I closed my legs. And I resisted. And he kept punching me and put his gun in my face,” Ms. Soussana said. “Then he dragged me to the bedroom.”

At that point, Muhammad forced her to commit a sexual act on him, Ms. Soussana said. After the assault, Muhammad left the room to wash, leaving Ms. Soussana sitting naked in the dark, she said.




https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/26/world/middleeast/hamas-hostage-sexual-assault.html?twclid=2-44njikk6z6jd8cha6u7k3eo9u

[edhopper]

7. As I said

Israel had the right to respond and the need to go after Hamas. I don't think it is about that anymore.

[RandySF]

11. Then Hamas can release the hostages and turn themselves in

and the onus will truly be on Israel to cease hostilities.

[edhopper]

13. They do need to.

But what Israel is doing now does not work for that goal.
Hamas still needs to be dealt with.

[RandySF]

14. Including whoever fired those rockets from inside a refugee center.

[edhopper]

17. As I said

I support Israel's right to retaliate. I just think they have stopped just going after Hamas.

[Celerity]

37. Sorry, but Israel does not have an unfettered hand to do whatever they want, and they have overplayed their hand.

Time to cut them off.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

4. I oppose the policies of Benjamin Netanyahu.

The only way for peace and a 2 state solution is to have Netanyahu and those who support this unnecessary bloodshed, GONE!

I commend Joe Biden and his Diplomatic team for taking a stronger position on this. The indiscriminate killing of Palestinian men, women, and children must stop. Hamas must be stopped, as well as the hard line Israeli position of killing civilians in the way. Even the people of Israel are opposing Netanyahu.

[edisdead]

38. The only way to a two state solution

The only way to a two state solution is for palestinians to accept that solution. They have refused multiple times.

[jimfields33]

54. If they go that route, I'd rather a two country break. That way both sides don't have to deal with each other.

[Chakaconcarne]

6. It was 6 months ago... Let them go it alone.

[edhopper]

9. No

What Hamas did does not have an expiration date. But Israel has gone beyond going after Hamas. They need to change course.

[Autumn]

8. It is well past time. Most of we people have no desire to support genocide.

There is NO justification for what Israel is doing. None.

[edhopper]

12. I do not accept that this is genocide

That is a trope to minimize the Holocaust and Israel's right to exists.

[Autumn]

15. That is your view. i see it as genocide. Nothing will convince me it isn't. I see what is being done.

Bullshit on it being a trope to minimize the Holocaust and Israel's right to exist.

Israel has the right to exist. Palestine has the right to exist. Israel's leaders and officials have publicly stated that their goal is to destroy or remove the Palestinians and take their land. They have already killed a large number of Palestinians, mostly women and children. They have no plans to stop.

That is genocide.

[edhopper]

16. No it's not

moving people from their land is a terrible thing, but it is not genocide.
Israel id not trying to kill all the Palestinians in Gaza. That would be genocide.

[Autumn]

18. Maybe you better look up the definition of genocide . Israel is slaughtering the Palestinians and their

intent is to take their land.

[edhopper]

21. You have seen my thread on that

no need to discuss it here too.

[Autumn]

22. If you don't want responses to your OP there are tools you can use to take care of that.

[edhopper]

23. I did respond

I said i have another thread where I am discussing that.

Here it is if you can't find it.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218816777

[Autumn]

24. I already responded to that idea of yours in this thread. I told you it is genocide. The very definition.

[edhopper]

25. So what

Was the point of bringing it here?

[edisdead]

39. You clearly do not wish to accept the actual definition of genocide.

[EX500rider]

27. What's missing is intent

Lots of dead civilians is most wars.

The US killing almost 3 million Japanese was not genocide because as soon as they surrendered we stopped, if we were intent on genocide the bombing would have continued.

The Jews could have surrendered all they wanted to Hitler, he was still going to put them in boxcars to the death camps, THAT is genocide.

If Hamas surrendered the IDF would stop their assault on Gaza, therefore war, not genocide.

If just dead civilians equaled "genocide" then I guess all these recent wars were too?

[marble falls]

10. Past time.

[GoodRaisin]

46. Yes

[Johnny2X2X]

19. I have stood with Israel

I have a posting history of supporting Israel and their actions to defend themselves from Hamas. But it is clear to me Netanyahu is the worst possible leader at a time like this and this war has become less about defending Israel and more about revenge against the Palestinian people. Netanyahu and his cabal want to punish regular Palesitinians, they want to make them suffer as retaliation of 10/7. I do not believe there is a resonable plan to defeat Hamas anymore. I think the US has been applying more pressure than anyone knows to get Israel to stop, but we may need to deprive them of weapons soon.

All that being said, people who keep using the word "genocide" diminish the meaning of the word. This is a war being executed too brutally, but it is not a systematic extermination of a people. The deaths of civilians are tagic and Israel is being careless, but the deaths are still not deliberate with the intention of destroying the people of Gaza entirely. But all of this to what end? Hamas will remain and grow stronger the longer this endures. I wish these actions were weakening Hamas, but all they are doing is ensuring that Hamas will have generations of new recruits going forward.

The best Israel could have hoped for was a destruction of the tunnel system under Gaza that Hamas uses to traffic arms and plan attacks from. I think that system is almost competely destroyed now. That, and the return of the hostages.

And don't mistake my criticism of Netanyahu for any sympathy towards Hamas. Hamas are evil and they bare the lion's share of the responsiblitiy for what is happening and their refusal to agree to release the rest of the hostages is causing this to continue. Hamas are animals, they have this warped sense that baiting the IDF into more brutality will help them. They care zero about the suffering as they're stealing most of the food and supplies from the civilians. I think Israel thinks that Hamas will agree to release all hostages soon, but I don't see that happening as Hamas is legitimately pleased with what is happening right now.

There needs to be an off ramp, but I don't see anyone but the US looking for one.

[LeftInTX]

32. I doubt if the tunnels have been destroyed enough to prevent a fairly rapid insurgence.

Those tunnels are crazy

[Johnny2X2X]

40. They have been decimated

They were 60% collapsed in January. They’re probably almost totally caved in now. They’re going to take years to rebuild.

[Tetrachloride]

20. self-erased

[Sky Jewels]

26. Ethnic cleansing, mass starvation, mass displacement, a huge percentage of the population of Gaza slaughtered...

If it looks like a genocide duck...

And, yes, CUT OFF ISRAEL NOW!

[EX500rider]

28. " a huge percentage of the population of Gaza slaughtered"

We have different definitions of "huge %" IMO

20,000+- dead out of 2.1 million sounds more like a small % to me.
Less 1% is usually not considered a "huge %" YMMV

"But 30,000!!!!"
Yes, over 12,000 of those are Hamas, but let me guess you absolutely trust the numbers Hamas issues (makes up IMO) but don't believe the IDF numbers?

[Sky Jewels]

31. Wow, way to minimize the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents,

including thousands of babies, toddlers, children and teens.

If the United States was invaded and 3 million of our people were slaughtered, would you consider that minimal? After all, that's less than one percent of the population!

I find your comment pretty revealing and pretty disgusting, TBH.

Both Hamas and Netanyahu's IDF are lying propagandists. The fact remains that Israel has slaughtered multi-thousands of Gazans, starved children, leveled cities, and displaced umpteen people from their homes.

No wonder Israel is now the world pariah. There is no coming back from this. Netanyahu has screwed his country over for decades to come.

[EX500rider]

35. You're the one that said a "huge percentage"

I just pointed out few people consider less than 1%, a "huge percentage"
YMMV

[former9thward]

44. World pariah?

How many countries have broken relations with Israel since Oct. 7?

[Joinfortmill]

29. Yup Bibi sucks.

[edhopper]

30. Succinct

[maxsolomon]

33. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Ending arms sales to an 75-year ally is not going to stop what's happening in Gaza. The IDF still has plenty of weaponry.

If he does cut Israel off, Biden couldn't claim any moral high ground; he's still "Genocide Joe" to Muslim voters and the far left, and he loses a significant portion of the Jewish Vote, which he absolutely needs.

And what IS happening in Gaza this last month? Do you know? The IDF has been poised to attack Rafah for weeks now but appears to be holding back as negotiations flounder along.

Who's refusing to agree to terms? Hamas. They're backed into a corner in Rafah, and only a total Israeli withdrawal lets them survive.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

34. Last Israel PM who wanted peace they killed him

that was 1995

Israel knows extremism when they see it, cause they also cause it.

What happened to the peace now members in Israel who were working for peace ?

Stop building settlements, now

[LeftInTX]

43. The "peace now" group is a minority

Israel is now mostly Mizrahi, which are Jews from the Middle East, not Europe. They're from Arab countries and Iran. The guy that killed Rabin was a Yemenite Jew. The Mizrahi Jews are much more anti-Islam than European Jews. Many were kicked out of Muslim countries.

[beaglelover]

41. Absolutely NOT!

[Amishman]

42. No, there can be no peace as long as Hamas exists

If the Palestinians want this to end, they should help Israel remove Hamas.

I'll change my mind when Joe does, until then I'll support Israel doing what unfortunately needs to be done.

[AZLD4Candidate]

45. Damn Israelis. Just go away already. We know you're the worst government in the world and Israelis are the

worst people in the world. How dare you do what the US did after 9/11?

Dammit, why can't you six star people understand that no matter what happens do you, you are always wrong and you deserve it.

[edhopper]

47. Not even close

to what I was saying.
They had every right to go into Gaza after Hamas. That doesn't mean they have the right to do whatever they want there. Their current actions are ultimately damaging to themselves.

[AZLD4Candidate]

49. The Japanese did the same after Pearl Harbor. They wanted war, they got it.

The Palestinians celebrated Oct 7. They wanted war. They celebrated the murder of 1200 people according to the Times of India.

My sympathy wanes when people celebrate murder and then complain when their actions come back to them.

But Israel is wrong because. . .well, I know why. But I can't say why because people won't like it.

[edhopper]

50. They are wrong because

they are now denying aid to starving people.

[AZLD4Candidate]

52. Don't want a war, don't start one. Don't celebrate when your government slaughters 1200 people

And Hamas also prevents the Palestinians from getting help because they shoot at those who try.

But again, Israel is 100% at fault for everything.

[edhopper]

56. If you see ANYWHERE

where I said that, or even didn't say Hamas is 100% the cause of the current conflict. You have read NOTHING of what I have wrote.
Debate what I say, not some strawman red herring.

[elocs]

48. Netanyahu is just trying to save his own ass.

He had been warned about a potential attack a year earlier and disregarded it as big talk. He let down the Israeli settlers in the west who waited for help, rescue that never came on time.
How many of the innocent civilians who have died as a result of his war against Hamas, the women, the children, the babies belong to Hamas? There's your answer. Israel has lost the moral high ground here in the eyes of the world and may never get it back again.
With this genocide, Israel has about played out their Holocaust card and ceases to be the victim.

[Voltaire2]

51. If you agree that the intention is to depopulate Gaza, then

you are, whether you admit it or not, agreeing with the long standing internationally accepted legal definition of genocide.

You have come a long way since your last op on this topic. You have one last step to take.

[jimfields33]

53. At s minimum, funding can't stop until 2025

since the current budget has money already approved. I’d rather they finish the job, but I understand some feel it’s been long enough. It will be a discussion in the 2025 budget I’m sure.

[edhopper]

55. My main point

is it is time for the US to put real pressure on Israel to pull back from it's current actions.

[jimfields33]

57. I'm sure they are negotiating just about everything

to stop Israel from continuing as much.

[edhopper]

58. one hopes