International Al-Quds Day Rally in Dearborn, MI: Protesters Chant "Death to America!"

[lapucelle]

April 5, 2024

Link to tweet

[Drum]

1. Well well well...

Have they thought this through? Would they like to inquire about repatriation or residence elsewhere then?

[Rebl2]

28. Have they taken time

to think about what tfg will do to them if he is elected. They will be thrown out of this country so quickly their heads will spin or spinoff. That is if it isn’t tfg hiring them to hold these demonstrations.

[Celerity]

68. The chants were denounced by Dearborn's mayor and other locals as they drew national attention Monday. They were

initiated by an unidentified person in the crowd and have since become one focus of videos being shared worldwide and reported by international media.

Middle East Media Research Institute

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), officially the Middle East Media and Research Institute, is an American non-profit press monitoring and analysis organization that was co-founded by Israeli ex-intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser in 1997. It publishes and distributes free copies of media reports that have been translated into English—primarily from Arabic and Persian, but also from Urdu, Turkish, Pashto, and Russian. Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, in spite of describing itself as being "independent" and "non-partisan" in nature, aims to portray the Arab world and the Muslim world in a negative light by producing and disseminating incomplete or inaccurate translations of the original versions of the media reports that it re-publishes. It has also been accused of selectively focusing on the views of Islamic extremists while de-emphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.

snip

Selective focus on Islamic extremists

Several critics have accused MEMRI of selectivity. Juan Cole, a professor of Modern Middle East History at the University of Michigan, argues MEMRI has a tendency to "cleverly cherry-pick the vast Arabic press, which serves 300 million people, for the most extreme and objectionable articles and editorials... On more than one occasion I have seen, say, a bigoted Arabic article translated by MEMRI and when I went to the source on the web, found that it was on the same op-ed page with other, moderate articles arguing for tolerance. These latter were not translated."

Former head of the CIA's counterintelligence unit, Vincent Cannistraro, said that MEMRI "are selective and act as propagandists for their political point of view, which is the extreme-right of Likud. They simply don't present the whole picture." Laila Lalami, writing in The Nation, states that MEMRI "consistently picks the most violent, hateful rubbish it can find, translates it and distributes it in email newsletters to media and members of Congress in Washington." As a result, critics such as UK Labour politician Ken Livingstone state that MEMRI's analyses are distortion.

A report by Center for American Progress, titled "Fear, Inc.: The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America" lists MEMRI as promoting Islamophobic propaganda in the USA through supplying selective translations that are relied upon by several organisations "to make the case that Islam is inherently violent and promotes extremism."

snip

[brer cat]

2. On our own soil. Unbelievable.

[obamanut2012]

27. It is their legal right

No matter how much we loathe it.

[Mr.Bill]

35. I think we can draw the line

at death threats.

[Marcus IM]

39. The constitution leaves plenty of room for argument against that. n/t

[mahatmakanejeeves]

41. Chanting "Death to America!" doesn't even come close to violating 1A. NT

[TexasDem69]

74. True

But they can still fuck off. Just because they aren’t criminal doesn’t mean we should support their reprehensible behavior. They’re no different than any other hate group in their extremism.

[brush]

48. I don't know about that. The First Amendment stops at advocating sedition.

[Happy Hoosier]

91. Maybe not

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

[EX500rider]

3. Ship em all to Afghanistan, maybe they'll like it better there

[ripcord]

19. Do you happen to have an America love it or leave it bumper sticker?

[EX500rider]

29. I just worry about the poor dears they seem to hate it here

Maybe they'd be happier somewhere else better for their mental health Etc

[ripcord]

47. That was directed often at Vietnam war protesters

So I was just checking.

[EX500rider]

56. I don't recall them chanting "death to America!"

That was probably more likely a Viet Cong chant

[ripcord]

61. They are well within their rights

Unpopular speech is protected.

[EX500rider]

66. I don't see anyone advocating for their arrest

I do see people advocating they go somewhere they'd be more happy.

[mcar]

78. Advocating death is not protected speech

[ripcord]

82. Calls for genocide are protected because it is just words

The protesters don't have the means to carry it out.

[former9thward]

86. Many favored a victory for the Viet Cong.

I would say that meant American deaths.

[Polybius]

95. Yikes n/t

[JanMichael]

88. If they want a califate then yes. They are not your friend.

Or mine.

[Marcus IM]

4. Our pride in the First Amendment takes a right turn?

Unlike republicans/Qwackanoners we should be proud of this great nation that allows for free speech.

I hate the message and the messenger, but love our First Amendment.

Many totalitarian countries would not tolerate free speech that criticized the gov't or the nation.

Not America, the land of the free and home of the brave.

[Silent3]

9. You can be a staunch defender of 1st Amendment rights as long as you don't want anyone arrested over this...

...or prevented from making such remarks in the first place.

You can then use your own 1st Amendment rights to say these are horrible people with a nasty message, and wish for them to leave the US for one of the countries they think is so much better.

No contradiction there.

[Marcus IM]

10. As I said, I hate the message and messenger.

Just to be clear.

[Cha]

12. Fuck the Assholes who Scream "Death to America".. Fuckers need

to find another place to Scream HATE.

[Rebl2]

30. I know where

they can go.

[Cha]

33. Yeah.. there.

[tritsofme]

15. Where is anyone arguing against these people's rights to be complete morons?

[Marcus IM]

17. I see responses suggesting deportation.

Everyone has the right to think what they want.

And, in the US one can say pretty much anything - complimentary or critical - thanks to the freedom of the First Amendment.

I know that many people would be in great danger if that weren't the case, and this protection was not constitutional.

[ripcord]

21. I've seen a number of responses saying if you don't like it here leave

I heard those exact words from conservatives in the 60s and 70s directed at Vietnam protesters.

[Coventina]

24. Critical difference: Vietnam protestors were protesting America's actions.

They weren't advocating for the ending of America.

That's treason.

[obamanut2012]

31. That is not what treason legally is

Even teh Insurrectionists didn't meet the criteria for that.

[Coventina]

34. OK then, they should be treated as hostile aliens and deported. n/t

[ripcord]

50. How progessive of you

If they leave will it Make America Great Again?

[Coventina]

51. I think people chanting "Death to America" shouldn't be here.

If that makes me anti-progressive, that's YOUR framework, not mine.

IF they are full US Citizens chanting that, they should be on a terrorist watch list.

I think discouraging threats to our society is plenty progressive.

[ripcord]

53. It is protected speech

The people calling for genocide never have the means to carry out the threat. They aren't going to be deported because your feelings are hurt. Maybe if you can't deal with free speech you should leave because you are the bigger threat.

[Coventina]

55. They've proven they can put on suicide vests and kill others. My feelings are not hurt.

These are dead end losers who have nothing to look forward to in this life.
I mean, they are living in a place they want to destroy.
How pathetic is that?!?!

Their "free speech" isn't free from my feelings of utter contempt for them.

[ripcord]

58. How have these protesters proved they are suicide bombers?

[Coventina]

62. I didn't say they were, I said they could be.

Anyone calling for the violent end of the country is certainly thinking about it, at least.

[Marcus IM]

67. You should really take a few moments to read this.

I get that you are voicing your own opinion, not sure it is based on constitutional arguments.

Terrorizing Advocacy and the First Amendment: Free Expression and the Fallacy of Mutual Exclusivity
https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5442&context=flr

[Coventina]

69. I'll freely admit I am not a constitutional lawyer.

I have to go run errands so I'm going to be off DU for the rest of the day.

I just have no time, patience or sympathy for these scum bags.

If I had my druthers (obviously I don't) I would either kick them out (if they aren't citizens) or put them on a terrorism watch.

They are beneath contempt.

Cowards, really. If they are hiding behind their rights because they are too scared to actually wage open warfare.

[Marcus IM]

32. Not specifically

May I refer this to you?

Terrorizing Advocacy and the First Amendment: Free Expression and the Fallacy of Mutual Exclusivity
https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5442&context=flr

[Coventina]

36. see my post above. n/t

[Mossfern]

89. That is a 27 page long document.

Is there a synopsis?

[FalloutShelter]

76. And American boys weee dying in that war.

[Rebl2]

37. Remember

they are screaming death to America ☮️ out.

[TheKentuckian]

73. Fuck em sideways with a rusty dumpster full of toxic sludge

They are free to spout their vile garbage and I'm free to tell them to rot and laugh at their cries when they get what they wish for.

[LeftInTX]

5. The poor oppressed things are just victims of western colonial powers.

[harumph]

6. Of course this plays right into Trump's wee hands.

[Karadeniz]

7. I wouldve thought anti hamas would be more appropriate.

[DFW]

8. I could only say to the "Death to America" crowd in Michigan:

To the ones who are not American citizens: I have good news for you! No one will prohibit you from returning home from our odious shores.

To the ones who are American citizens: I prefer to stay alive, but I have good news for you, too. No one will stand in your way if you prefer the alternative for yourself.

[LeftInTX]

11. I hope this wakes up the mayor of Dearborn and Tlaib

[Cha]

13. No it won't.. the mayor ahs siad they "survived 4 years of TSF &

they'll do it again"

That would be the death of Democracy.

[tritsofme]

14. Not much difference between these folks and your typical "pro-Pal" protesters, they are just more honest.

[Coventina]

16. I say it's time to end the poor dears' suffering and send them to Somalia. n/t

[Marcus IM]

18. My parents fled Cuba in 1956 because of the threats against their free speech.

They came to the USA and loved it for the very right to free speech.

[Coventina]

22. That's cool. Threats are not "Free Speech". Anyone calling for the Death of America

is making a threat, and should be treated as a criminal.

[Marcus IM]

25. I have had death threats, and nothing was done. Even if the police see/hear it. I live in Florida.

My only resort was a protective order.

One either supports the First Amendment, or they don't. It's not (supposed to be) a pick and choose constitution.

[Coventina]

26. Anyone who comes here and advocates for the end of the country should be treated as a hostile alien.

Period. End of story.

on edit: typo

[Marcus IM]

38. I feel the same about unconstitutional action.

Anyone who comes here is one of the "We The People"

Republicans are working to change that.

[Coventina]

40. Not unless they have become a citizen.

If they have become a citizen, then we clearly need better screening.

[Marcus IM]

42. You think that resident aliens are not protected by the constitution? Wow.

Let's seriously hope that does not become a plank of the Democratic Party Platform.

[Coventina]

45. I think resident aliens should be kicked out if they hate America.

They are not doing themselves or us any good if they hate America.

Let them hate America back where they came from.

[Marcus IM]

49. Let's just hope that CONservative don't get to make these choices of who hates America.

As far as they are concerned, it's ALL liberals, socialists, etc etc.

Republicans love that position, and they've openly stated so.

One should want to consider the implications of supporting your position.

[Coventina]

52. Nice try. you're conflating vastly disparate activities to try and frame me as a right-winger.

It won't work.

My reference is for people making threats to our country, not people with differing views of economics and social justice.

[Marcus IM]

57. I'm not "trying" anything. I understand your position.

I'm just supporting the constitutional protections that cover all citizens and resident of the US.

It's why my family is here.

And, suggesting anything approaching stripping free speech is dangerous, imo.

Of course, my family experience is not yours, so I leave room for understanding.

Cheers

[Coventina]

60. I find it reasonable that people who hate America shouldn't be here.

Please explain to me why they should be allowed here when they are calling for the violent end to the country?

We deny visas to dangerous folks all the time. If some slip in, and then are found to be terrorists, why shouldn't we kick them back out?

[Marcus IM]

71. It is entirely reasonable.

If you'd read the article I posted it has a lot to do with empty generalized threats vs specific and realistic threats.

On that note ...

I wish someone could explain why Cubans who fail a US background check can paddle-in or come here by any means (including human trafficking) and get a brand new identity, green card, Social Security, Medicare/aid immediately?

And then be celebrated for their fraud?

Come to Miami and learn about the Cuban "exile" diaspora, and learn that airline bombers, car bombers, hijackers, and assassin terrorists are celebrated ... made the Grand Marshall of parades and even become Republican electors. All with the blessings of candidates for both parties.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

It shouldn't be a pick-and-choose constitution.

One either supports the 1st, or not.

As I mentioned earlier, our experiences are different, so I try to leave room for understanding.

[Coventina]

85. Since you bring up the Cuban situation, sure, I'll comment.

I don't think we should have accepted all those mobsters who fled to Florida because of Castro.
The only reason was the anti-communist hysteria at the time.
I'm sure many if not most of those guys had blood on their hands and shouldn't have been accepted into the country and treated like heroes.

But, I wasn't born yet, so I couldn't register my disapproval.
I think all those grumpy old men should be ignored. They will all die soon (the sooner the better) and hopefully some sanity regarding Cuba will be restored.

(I just got home from my errands, but now I have to go cook dinner, so won't be around much more today)

[Mossfern]

90. If they are chanting "Death to America"

then they are against our Constitution, therefore against the 1st amendment.
In essence chanting "Death to the 1st Amendment!"
No?
Why are they taking advantage of something they want to die?

How often have you heard residents and citizens of Cuban descent chanting against our nation?

[Marcus IM]

93. They are protected by the 1A. If they, you, or anyone likes it or not.

What are they taking advantage of? The 1A?

I hear more than most regarding the unconstitutional crap the RW "exiles" spew.
The latest being supporting tRump's attempt to subvert the constitution, which is support for the end of the constitution. No?

As I said ... I hate the message and messenger. But love the freedom of the 1A.

Cheers.

[LeftInTX]

59. Both of them were likely born here. (The iman was born here for sure) They have the privilege of saying this stuff.

[Coventina]

64. Then they definitely belong on a terrorist watch list. n/t

[leftyladyfrommo]

20. Somalia is nice this time of year.

Radical Middle Eastern men scare the crap out of me. They treat women like garbage. And I watch them on the news and they are so radical abd so violent.

I read that Afghanistan is stoning women again.

[Marcus IM]

44. Much like RW CONservative Qwackanon men.

But, their speech is protected also.

[sarisataka]

23. If they want to stand with Iran

who ironically does not allow free speech, who am I to stop them? They can proclaim their anti-Zionism, antisemitism and anti-America stance.

I like to know who hates me. And who thinks October 7 was justified.

[enid602]

43. 'Tehrangeles'

Greater Los Angeles has 500,000 Iranians, which is the largest concentration outside of Iran. Huge protests with thousands of people frequently take place there, and they have invariably been anti Iranian Government.

[LeftInTX]

65. What do they have to do with this?

Both guys are Arabs. The iman went to Iran and studied under one of the ayatollahs. The iman was born in Washington DC.

The Tehrangeles people don't shout "Death to America", they don't like the Islamic Republic

[enid602]

75. 23

Sorry. Meant to reply to thread 23.

[TheRealNorth]

46. About MEMRI

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute

[Voltaire2]

54. Exactly. Until proven otherwise Memri is an Israeli disinformation operation.

That does not mean that some idiot didn't say some stupid shit, but the source of this information is dubious.

[LeftInTX]

87. Is Biden an Israeli disinformation operation?

White House condemns ‘Death to America’ chants at rally in Dearborn, Mich.

“Peaceful protests are something that the president has also been very clear that, its important to give folks space to peacefully protest. But any type of violent rhetoric, we are going to denounce,” she said.

Dearborn mayor Abdullah Hammoud (D) has also denounced the chants, sharing in a statement on X that “Dearborn is a city of proud Americans.”

The chants, which also included “Death to Israel,” took place at a rally on Friday to mark the International Day of Al-Quds, according to The Detroit News. Fox2 reported that the chants came from members of the audience at the rally.

Dearborn, a Detroit suburb where Arab Americans make up the majority of the population, was under increased security in February after an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal called the city “America’s jihad capital.” Biden called out the “anti-Arab hate” against Dearborn at the time.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4583463-white-house-condemns-death-to-america-chants-at-rally-in-dearborn-mich/

Link to tweet

[Cha]

92. TY!

[Voltaire2]

98. These are all sourcing the same memri article.

This is how disinformation works.

Again, this does not mean the incident didn’t happen, but memri is an Israeli disinformation operation.

[sarisataka]

63. So is the video a fake

or do you just not like the source that published it?

[lapucelle]

80. Why would the White House condemn and the mayor of Dearborn denounce something that didn't happen?

edited to include the link.

White House condemns ‘Death to America’ chants at rally in Dearborn, Mich.

The White House on Tuesday condemned “death to America” chants that surfaced online from a recent rally in Dearborn, Mich., protesting Israel’s war in Gaza. Press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre replied, “yes” when asked if President Biden condemns the comments in the chants, which were captured on video by some attendees.

“Peaceful protests are something that the president has also been very clear that, its important to give folks space to peacefully protest. But any type of violent rhetoric, we are going to denounce,” she said.

Dearborn mayor Abdullah Hammoud (D) has also denounced the chants, sharing in a statement on X that “Dearborn is a city of proud Americans.”

The chants, which also included “Death to Israel,” took place at a rally on Friday to mark the International Day of Al-Quds, according to The Detroit News. Fox2 reported that the chants came from members of the audience at the rally.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4583463-white-house-condemns-death-to-america-chants-at-rally-in-dearborn-mich/

[Hekate]

70. How edifying to see Assholes on Parade.

[DavidDvorkin]

72. There are other sources also reporting this, and local community leaders

have condemned the chants.

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/community-leaders-denounce-death-to-america-chants-during-dearborn-rally

[mcar]

77. How "freedom fighter Mandela" of them

[betsuni]

79. Copycats. "Death to America" is so '70s.

[keithbvadu2]

81. Idaho teen arrested day before he planned ISIS-inspired attack on church

Actions way beyond the First Amendment

https://www.bing.com/search?q=idaho+isis+churches&form=ANNTH1&refig=d0f8175e7f524e41960e057bda8dfa83&pc=U531

"I'm 17 in USA," Mercurio wrote in the chat on Oct. 2, 2022, court documents show. "I know I try to keep secret, I'm in north Idaho very Christian and conservative parents are mad cause I'm not shaving beard and not letting pants go below ankle."

[LeftInTX]

96. And a white supremacist at that. But of course, he's now a Muslim, so I'm sure he's now seen as "oppressed" to some.

Unlike most students, the Coeur d’Alene teenager ended up in the dark corners of the internet. And for a time, he “drank the Kool-aid” of white supremacy before turning to an extremist view of Islam, and eventually the terrorist group known as the Islamic State group, according to federal criminal charges filed against him on Monday.

“I’m 17 in USA … I know I try to keep secret, I’m in north Idaho very Christian and conservative parents are mad cause I’m not shaving beard and not letting pants go below ankle,” he wrote in October 2022..

Mercurio messaged online with terrorist supporters, eventually coming up with a plan to hit his father with a metal pipe, take his guns and attack nearby churches in Coeur d’Alene, the complaint alleges.

As the holy month of Ramadan drew to a close, Mercurio selected a specific church that he planned to attack on Sunday. He wrote a statement pledging his allegiance to the Islamic State and his plan to kill himself during the attack.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2024/apr/09/mercurio-folo/

[Deep State Witch]

84. Well... There's the Border

They're not that far from the Canadian border. They can fucking leave anytime they want to.

[Polybius]

94. Fuck him

If he hates it here, go back to where he came from. He's no Democrat.

[LeftInTX]

97. Why did Tarek Bazzi (the younger guy) shut down his FB page????

I guess all that free speech and free publicity didn't go so well this time.....

[Ping Tung]

99. Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions. Arthur Schopenhauer

“My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.” Thomas Paine