Question: Have Israelis, including military, been dying in this 'war' in any numbers since Oct 7, 2023?

[Rustynaerduwell]

Last edited Tue Apr 9, 2024, 05:31 PM - Edit history (2)

Or is it virtually only the people of Gaza who are dying?

In all the reporting of deaths in Gaza, I've seen nothing of the number of casualties the Israelis have suffered. Are there any?





Edit: !: I thought it was obvious from the context I meant after the initial attack.

2: This is a question borne from ignorance and curiosity. I am not making an opinion, because I am still too ignorant of the facts. That is why I ask questions.

3: I put "war" in semi-quotes because no war has been declared. It was not meant to imply anything about the conflict.


There are people here seeing motives in my question that do not exist.

[Think. Again.]

1. I don't know but I do know...

...two soldiers were fired for killing 7 aid workers.

[vanamonde]

2. I've been wondering also.

I haven't heard any reports of Hamas destroying Israeli tanks or downing Israeli jets. Have they done so? Considering the asymmetric nature of this conflict what more do the Israelis need?

[Rustynaerduwell]

42. You can wonder all you want, but don't ask about it.

Wondering is okay. Apparently asking is a form of propaganda.


I'm not making that mistake again.

[TheProle]

3. Answer: Yes

Per Israel:

822 civilians killed
676 servicemembers killed
10,580+ wounded
253 captured or abducted
1 missing

Per Hamas:

1,600+ soldiers killed

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war

[Mosby]

6. Israel has killed or captured 12,000+ Hamas members.

Hamas's casulty count doesn't distinguish between civilians and terrorists, and the 33,000 number is also inflated.

[AloeVera]

11. That is not correct. You are including Oct 7

Your figures include casualties on Oct 7th.

The question was SINCE Oct 7th.

Per the Israeli military and PM's office, as summarized in this AP article Apr 6th.

256 IDF soldiers killed during the ground offensive in Gaza.

Civilians killed since Oct. 7 in Israel along its northern border: 9

Israeli soldiers killed along Israel’s northern front since Oct. 7: 11

I'm reading this as no Israelis, civilian or military, inside Israel killed by Hamas rockets or attacks since Oct 7.

Also as around 130 Palestinians killed for every Israeli soldier killed in Gaza.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-war-statistics-95a6407fac94e9d589be234708cd5005

[TheProle]

13. Since when would you exclude the initial invasion that caused the conflict?

What sort of cherry-picking crap is that?

[obamanut2012]

15. Because the question was AFTER October 7

It is not cherry picking in any way.

[TheProle]

17. Actually it was "since"

not after.

[AloeVera]

20. Common mistake.

Since:

Synonyms:
from, from that point on, from the time of, subsequent to, subsequently , thereafter , following , after

I understand how the phrasing could be misinterpreted, and I find it interesting the IDF continues to use it.

But in any case, the O/P was asking about deaths in Gaza.

[yardwork]

26. Apparently, many Israeli hostages were killed, in Gaza, since October 7.

We don't know how many because Hamas won't say.

[AloeVera]

57. Terrible news and I hope it's not true.

The agony for the families of not knowing and waiting is unimaginable. We think about our own loved ones and how we would feel. I hope everyone is released soon and that they are safe.

[yardwork]

59. We know for a fact that some are dead.

[AloeVera]

18. I try my best not to do crap.

It is what it is.

Read the poster's question.

[TheProle]

19. I did. "Since" is ambiguous and can be either inclusive of a date, or exclusive.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/261767/since-2009-is-it-inclusive-or-exclusive

Regardless, it's an intellectually dishonest question. The conflict clearly began with the Hamas invasion and its attendant rapes, tortures and murders of Israelis. To exclude those from any conflict stats is bullshit and speaks to the mealy-mouthiness of anti-semitic framing.

[Rustynaerduwell]

23. In what way was my question intellectually dishonest?

For one thing, Israeli casualties on Oct 7th were widely reported. Not so much since then. It is something I am ignorant of. So I'm asking. What's dishonest about that?

Oh wait, is it because maybe I kinda knew the answer all ready? That is, not many?

Historically, way more Palestinians have died in conflict than Israelis. Was it intellectually dishonest to ask if this trend continues?

Isn't disallowing such questions intellectually dishonest in itself?

[sarisataka]

24. You just described intellectual dishonesty... nt

[Rustynaerduwell]

31. ?

[sarisataka]

36. When a person asks a question

leading to a design conclusion, it is intellectually dishonest.

Now had you truly no idea of Israeli casualties that would have been honest. However "Oh wait, is it because maybe I kinda knew the answer all ready?" shows that was not true and therefore dishonest. The question is attempting to support a prejudged conclusion that the war is unfair, based on casualty figures.

[Rustynaerduwell]

38. So only questions in which you have "truly no idea" of the possible answer

are ok to ask?

This war now is unlike any other Israeli conflict in my lifetime.
Yes, more Palestinians have historically died in past conflicts. Typing that sentence is not stating an opinion.

Asking if that trend has continued in a war that is unprecedented, and to what extent is not an opinion.

I'm too ignorant of the matter to make an opinion. That is why I asked the question.

The "Oh wait" was typed as the thought came to me. I didn't "kinda know" the answer until I wrote the question.

But, now that I think of it, everybody who read the question "kinda" knew the answer.

[sarisataka]

39. Any question may be asked

and asking a question you already know the answer to is a common debating technique. It is used by lawyers every day to argue cases.

If a person says they are "just asking" while actually using the technique as an argument, that is what makes it intellectually dishonest. Intellectual honesty includes a desire for knowledge to reach an undetermined conclusion. it also implies being open to reaching a conclusion you are not happy with, yet accept it is the correct end based on the evidence.

Your follow up post indicated you did know the answer to your question and were attempting to reach a predetermined position. Perhaps that post was simply phrased poorly.

And yes, the answer is obviously Israel has lesser casualties overall. Those who have an agenda use the fact to try and maintain the war is unfair. There are even claims Hamas is no longer fighting. As one famous general said (paraphrased) you don't win by dying for your cause, you make the other dumb bastard die for his cause.

[Rustynaerduwell]

41. I didn't know the answer. I only know (little) of the history.

My God, I wasn't looking to "debate". I just wanted to know something that I think might be important, but the news hasn't covered it. So I asked.


Sorry, not gonna do that again.

[sarisataka]

43. Well to answer, yes there have been Israeli casualties

though far less than Palestinian casualties.

Hamas PIJ and others are continuing to fire rockets into Israel on a near daily basis. It is difficult to determine how many are fired because it is so common, even Israeli sources don't bother to report most incidents.

[AloeVera]

44. Yes you will, and you should.

Ask on, my friend.

[TheProle]

45. Ask away

But if you go asking how many Americans were killed in WW2 and arbitrarily begin counting after Pearl Harbor, you're fishing for a preconceived political answer and not a factual one.

[Rustynaerduwell]

46. I wasn't fishing for anything.

The factual answers here (all that I was looking for) say about 650 Israelis and at least 12,000 Palistinians have been killed after the initial attack. Why is that a political answer?

[AloeVera]

50. Apologies. I'm OCD about accuracy and facts.

So I need to correct your figure. As per the figures released by the IDF and as I said in my posts:

260 Israeli soldiers killed in Gaza (incl the 4 killed this weekend) + 20 soldiers/civilians killed at Israel's northern border by Hezbollah =280, not 650 Israelis killed after Oct 7.

The 650 I believe is an amalgamation of soldiers/police/security killed both on Oct 7 and after.

[AloeVera]

51. As for the 12,000 Palestinians killed you quoted.

Where did you find that? I have not seen that figure since Oct/Nov.

Per the "Hamas-run Health Ministry" the number killed is currently around 33,000, not including the 7,000 listed as missing or buried under rubble (as of December).

Of that, Israel claims 13,000 are .Hamas.

[TheProle]

25. No one disallowed your question

That doesn't mean everyone must fall in line with specious reasoning.

[Rustynaerduwell]

30. I think you did with your comment about my "intellectually dishonest" question.

But you didn't answer my question about why it was intellectually dishonest. And now I'd like to know why my reasoning was "specious".

[EX500rider]

32. Is your point Hamas sucks at warfighting?

Maybe it is a VERY bad idea to attack your much stronger, better trained & equipped neighbor, who knew?!

[Rustynaerduwell]

34. I had no point. I was curious. I asked a question.

That is all.

[EX500rider]

35. Well that is the correct answer, you are welcome

[obamanut2012]

14. You are 100% correct

Non-October 7 Israeli casualties, both civilian and military, are about 620 service members.

[multigraincracker]

33. Doesn't state if those soldiers

were killed by friendly fire or enemy.

[dutch777]

4. Numbers seem elusive but something like 100 killed, 600 wounded since Oct 7

That does not include those killed/wounded in the Oct 7 Hamas attacks. Those are IDF soldiers, I have not seen anything on civilians but I recall some of the rocket attacks from Hamas and Hezbollah has resulted in civilian casualties.

Casualty numbers are staggering on all sides if you compare them to the overall populations. If you say 1500 Israelis total have died of a population of about 9.8 million, that is like over 50,000 Americans being killed of our 330 million population.

Something like 33,000+ Palestinians have died since start of fighting. The Gaza population is about 2.3 million. That is 1.5% of the population. If the US lost 1.5% in a war that would be almost 5 million people.

The depth of hatred being mined in this conflict is beyond measure and won't be easily or quickly undone.

[yardwork]

27. Don't forget the unknown number of civilian hostages killed in Gaza since Oct 7.

We don't know how many because Hamas won't release the hostages, but some of their bodies have been found.

[dutch777]

62. Sadly, you are probably right, many of them are dead, caught in Israeli bombings or by neglect and abuse

Assuming they were kept in the tunnels and Israel is using our two thousand pound bombs to take out the tunnels, the shock wave from those bombs kills by the pressure wave bursting internal organs, especially in a confined space.

[maxsolomon]

5. Have any Hamas militants been dying in this "war"?

In most reporting of deaths in Gaza, I only see total numbers of Gazan deaths (33,000), with no distinction between combatants and non-combatants.

Perhaps the Hamas-run Gazan Health Ministry doesn't consider it an important differentiation?

[Happy Hoosier]

7. Hamas won;t break out the deaths for propaganda reasons...

... Hamas apoloigists tout the reported number of deaths as if they are all civilians, cowering in camps.

[maxsolomon]

9. I'm not sure if the "Genocide Joe" crowd understands that many Hamas fighters are in that number

of total dead.

Israel's saying it could be as high as 1/3 - over 10K. That seems a stretch, but the rows of buildings torn apart by tank shells indicates that someone is shooting back.

[Nanjeanne]

8. Per Times of Israel today - IDF numbers

As the country marked half a year of war against Hamas, the IDF published new data Sunday on its operations in the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and Lebanon, from the number of terror operatives killed to the number of sites struck.

A total of 604 soldiers, reservists, and local security officers have been killed and 3,193 have been wounded since October 7. Of them, 260 were killed and 1,552 were wounded during the ground offensive in Gaza.

The IDF also listed 41 soldiers killed due to friendly fire in Gaza and other military-related accidents.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/four-soldiers-killed-fighting-in-southern-gaza-as-war-on-hamas-hits-six-month-mark/#:~:text=A%20total%20of%20604%20soldiers,the%20ground%20offensive%20in%20Gaza.]

[AloeVera]

16. Thanks Nanjeanne. See my post.

It is important to note that figures released by the IDF generally include the casualties of Oct 7th. So for anyone interested in lsraeli casualties of the war itself, the info is a little harder to find.

[sarisataka]

10. Not enough for some people apparently

I am not sure where this "fairness" of casualties in a war has come from. Would it really be better if there were more dead people?

[DavidDvorkin]

22. Many would be delighted if there were a lot more dead Jews.

[Celerity]

61. Certainly no one here on DU (other than some rando, spun up burner troll accounts that are quickly MIRT'd)

[AloeVera]

12. Here are the actual figures, per IDF and PM's office.

Per the Israeli military and PM's office, as summarized in this AP article Apr 6th.

256 IDF soldiers killed during the ground offensive in Gaza.

Civilians killed since Oct. 7 in Israel along its northern border: 9

Israeli soldiers killed along Israel’s northern front since Oct. 7: 11

I'm reading this as no Israelis, civilian or military, inside Israel killed by Hamas rockets or attacks since Oct 7.

Also as around 130 Palestinians killed for every Israeli soldier killed in Gaza. Break-out of civilians vs combatants is unverifiable.
.


https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-war-statistics-95a6407fac94e9d589be234708cd5005

[PCIntern]

21. Excuse me...

When we fought the Iraqis in the Gulf War,, was the war considered “unfair” because we annihilated the Iraqis but lost relatively few soldiers?

So more Israelis, both Israeli Jews and Israeli an Arabs who serve in the IDF need to die for “balance”? Really??

[Rustynaerduwell]

40. No

Why do so many people I'm trying to make a point? I'm not. I was curious, so I looked for answers.

Sorry, I won't do that again.

[RandySF]

28. Yes

[Cha]

29. I don't know But the GD Butchers of HAMAS have just REJECTD A

Ceasefire that Israel Offered.. So they Don't give a Shit how many Palestinians die.

Hamas Rejects Ceasefire

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218846756

[Elessar Zappa]

37. Is this a contest or something?

[Ace Rothstein]

48. Apparently

There has been a lot of hand-wringing about the number of fatalities on one side compared to the other.

[DavidDvorkin]

47. The media much prefer talking about Palestinian deaths.

[Ace Rothstein]

49. Yes, 4 IDF troops were killed in an ambush over the weekend.

All of the leftists and Islamists are celebrating it on Twitter.

[Happy Hoosier]

52. Are wars supposed to be fair or something? NT

[Rustynaerduwell]

53. Are we supposed to not ask about casualties or something?

[Happy Hoosier]

56. You can, but it was worded weirdly

Like somehow destroying Hamas is only justified by continuing Israeli casualties.

[Rustynaerduwell]

58. The thought never occurred to me.

I thought it was a simple question, simply put. I see all sorts of reporting on Palestinian death and casualty numbers, but none on Israeli numbers. So, I asked.

[Lunabell]

54. Do you have to poke the bear?

I don't think this is a legitimate question. I think you already know the answers.

[question everything]

55. You can count them. As of March 24

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/s1rxsrj11a

Commanders, soldiers, police officers: The names of the heroes who died defending Israel

[keithbvadu2]

60. Question: Were Gazans, including military, dying in this 'war' in any numbers before Oct 7, 2023?

Question: Were Gazans, including military, dying in this 'war' in any numbers before Oct 7, 2023?

When Hamas butchered men, women, and children and sexually battered women and took hostages.

Hamas wants to do just what Trump's republicans want to do;;; kill more Jews.

[DemocraticPatriot]

63. Google says 260 IDF killed in the ground invasion of Gaza.

(Google)
A total of 604 soldiers, reservists, and local security officers have been killed and 3,193 have been wounded since October 7.
Of them, 260 were killed and 1,552 were wounded during the ground offensive in Gaza. The IDF also listed 41 soldiers killed due to friendly fire in Gaza and other military-related accidents. (3 days ago)

[Autumn]

64. If you have seen Mike Fuckabees commercials thousands of Israelis have been killed on the first

day of the start of this war. thousands of children killed. They are under a daily bombardment of a thousand missiles a day and the people of Israeli are starving. Please send 45 dollars to feed them and build mobile bomb shelters.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/66LJ/international-fellowship-of-christians-and-jews-israel-under-attack-feat-mike-huckabee


My husband like to watch westerns, that commercial is on a dozen times a day.