It's time to become an atheist.

[Girard442]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by sarisataka (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Leave behind the darkness of irrationality, fear, and superstition and come walk in the sunshine

[MineralMan]

1. Uh, that's just silly.

If you believe, you believe. If you do not, you do not. Simple.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

6. I don't think it is at all that simple.

And that's without adding in the social control component of religion.

[brooklynite]

17. If you believe that a God exists (I don't) and that God interferes in human events, then you don't have a choice...

God has apparently decreed behavior and has shared those decrees with his/her followers.

[shrike3]

18. Depends on the belief system. Some hold that God gives man free will.

It's a very personal matter. Wiping out religion by force has never worked well, just as forcing a religion on a populace has never worked. Given how secular America is becoming, I'm sure the OP will eventually get his wish.

[brooklynite]

20. "Free Will" seems to mean that you CAN disobey God, not that you won't suffer for doing so.

[shrike3]

23. It insinuates that one has a choice. Different from predestination. Different belief system.

I hear a lot about determinism, which holds that none of us has much of a choice; our decisions, our lives are determined by our genes, etc. Rather depressing. So much for secularism.

[shrike3]

53. Nobody said you wouldn't suffer. Just that you have free will.

[pandr32]

46. There is much scientific and philosophic debate...

that free will, as we think of it, does not exist. Ditto for souls.

[shrike3]

55. That's funny, because more than one atheist has told me that unlike believers they have free will.

Now there's the notion nobody does. Oh well.

The notion that souls don't exist has gone on for quite some time, I imagine.

[Voltaire2]

33. So there is no free will?

[MineralMan]

36. That is a different question, actually.

Some people believe that supernatural entities exist and have some role in our existence. Such people are not atheists, by definition.

Some people do not believe that. I am one of those people. Not only do I not believe that, I can't imagine how I could believe that. So, I'm an atheist.

Have I "willed" not to believe that? Not that I'm aware of. I simple don't believe that any supernatural entities or forces exist.

Has nothing to do with free will at all.

[Voltaire2]

44. Yet you seem to imply that 'belief' is deterministic.

That if you believe in gods that cannot change. It seems an odd position for a person who also insists we have ‘free will’.

I happen to agree that god beliefs are not conscious choices, but I don’t stop at god beliefs as I see nothing exceptional about these categories of thought. Mostly people have the specific god beliefs that were programmed into them by family and culture. Mostly that doesn’t change. There are exceptions though, so apparently, like other beliefs, god beliefs in an individual can change over time.

[MineralMan]

47. Nope. When I was a child, I believed that there was a god

and all that sort of thing. That was what I was taught. But, then, I learned to reason on my own. I could no longer believe in supernatural explanations for things, so I rejected those ideas. I was perfectly fine with being an accident of nature, I discovered. So, I explored the possibilities of my accidental existence and have enjoyed doing that throughout my adult life.

We are not born with a developed reasoning ability. That, too, is learned over time. But, it was not a choice to stop believing supernatural explanations. I simply could no longer believe them.

[Voltaire2]

51. Fair enough but

If you believe, you believe. If you do not, you do not. Simple.

Seems to contradict your new position.

[MineralMan]

52. Not really.

Belief and nonbelief are incompatible states of being. It's a binary thing, really.

To add: It is possible to be uncertain, however. Most people apparently are. More thinking is required in that case.

[Voltaire2]

61. Yet you claim to have reasoned yourself

Out of god belief while dismissing as ‘silly’ a post suggesting that other people ought to do likewise. So I guess I’m just confused about what your position is.

[BidenRocks]

48. Not afraid

Of burning in hell.

[MineralMan]

50. Why would you be afraid of something

that does not exist?

[Hekate]

58. Ron Reagan Junior makes TV ads for a group that wants separation of church & state. His tag line is...

…”Ron Reagan — lifelong atheist, and not afraid of burning in Hell.”

Makes me laugh. I’m not an atheist. If anything I am a polytheist. But my kind won’t kill you for believing something different.

[Sky Jewels]

39. I love how "God" is said to give free will to humans ...

So, rather lift a finger to help, "He" gives some children the free will to starve to death. What a monstrous asshole. I'm glad magical beings don't actually exist.

[Faux pas]

2. Raised catholic

been an atheist since I was 13. It's a wonderful freeing feeling! The Universe is my religion now, it's real.

[ArkansasDemocrat1]

26. Been lapsed for decades

I'll never go back

[Faux pas]

38. That's Great!

[erronis]

49. My father was "I don't have time to think about it" and mother went to Episcopal church for the social experience

I pretty much decided that god was as real as the Easter Bunny when I was around 7.

[gay texan]

3. best decision i ever made in my life

20 years ago. Life is vastly better!!!

[NoRethugFriends]

4. 60 years an atheist

Face it. The god stuff makes no sense

[Butterflylady]

5. I became an agnostic when I realized the Bible was a bunch of myths..

But, to each his own.

[DavidDvorkin]

7. Indeed.

[PJMcK]

8. No time like the present

Welcome aboard!

[Elessar Zappa]

9. No thanks.

I can’t state there is a creator or there isn’t one. And neither can science.

[lindysalsagal]

15. Not believing in a god is what you just described. That's atheist.

Welcome to the club!

[shrike3]

19. Sounds more like agnostic to me.

[lindysalsagal]

22. Depends on your definitions, But if you don't believe in sky gods, you don't.

Believers are quite clear in their beliefs.

[shrike3]

24. I was under the impression that agnostics claim not to know.

That there is no proof either way. Sounded to me what that poster was saying.

[lindysalsagal]

29. Knowing and believing. Are they the same?

[shrike3]

30. I am using language that agnostics themselves have used in discussing the topic.

In talking with a few personally, in fact, this is the language they've used. Take it up with them, not me. Don't really care one way or another. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

[Sky Jewels]

42. The default position is that something magical doesn't exist.

Your statement is exactly the same as "I can't state there is a flying unicorn ridden by a leprechaun or there isn't one. And neither can science."

If evidence is found to support the existence of magic and magical beings, okay, we can reevaluate. Until then: There is no such thing as a god.

[HAB911]

10. OH shit, you know atheists are not allowed to proselytize

next thing you know at your front door..............knock knock knock

[CrispyQ]

27. It's so annoying!

[HAB911]

28. LOL! I love it

[LeftInTX]

11. Are you trying to convert me? LOL

[lees1975]

12. I've done all that.

And became a Quaker. I still believe in God, but I have left behind the darkness of irrationality, fear and superstition.

[republianmushroom]

13. Yup

[ismnotwasm]

14. Oh I don't know

I am agnostic, because what we don't know seems to be a whole hell of a lot more than what we do know. That said, human beings are spectacular liars and storytellers. The way the Bible morphed into what it is today is probably the most famous example. It is not, shall we say, a historical document, although we have been able to verify little bits here and there. Certainly not enough to claim “inerrancy” or other types of nonsensical claims

On the other hand, we literally evolved with the idea of deities and rituals designed to impact environment, this is deep down in our psychological structure. It’s impossible to dismiss religion for everyone. And I don’t want to. Magical thinking has its own benefits and power.

If we could just separate church from state effectively, people could have an easier time of it when it comes down to these types of musings.

[lindysalsagal]

16. We're gonna have to choose: it's either us and the planet, or this invisible sky god stuff.

Because continuing to do what we're doing legislating stone-age fairy tales, isn't working.

[shrike3]

21. Elon Musk isn't doing his thing because Jesus Christ is his lord and savior.

The rainforest is being cut down because the bible tells lumber companies to do so. Man is a violent and acquisitive species. It's part of us; I personally think it's because we share so many genes with the chimpanzee, also a violent species. In the end we are left with ourselves, and we aren't exactly admirable. I used to think that maybe without religion we could work on what ails us; so far that isn't happening. Most of the people I know aren't religious. And a good number of those people are racist, homophobic, transphobic, misogynist. And a surprising number do not believe in climate change.

[Mossfern]

31. I don't agree

It's not one or the other. Believing in a Creator and caring for the planet are not mutually exclusive.

The Torah sees humans as being responsible for the world in which they live. They are participants in God's creation, and while God did say humankind is given dominion over the world, that role is one of caretaker, not conqueror. It is not given to us to stand aside and watch the Earth be destroyed.

https://www.delmarvanow.com/story/opinion/columnists/2017/04/16/earth-day-stewardship-judaism/100466440/

Religious institutions provide a supportive community for people.
It's not all bad.

[BidenRocks]

57. How many civilizations have fallen?

Despite all the prayers and human sacrifices,
the rains did not come, the volcanos did not stop and the lowlands flooded.
God's will my ass.

[LW1977]

60. I choose both

It’s NOT black and white! Ugh!

[elocs]

25. As an atheist myself, I can honestly say that some of the best people I have known are religious,

as well as some of the worst.
I worked at a Salvation Army homeless shelter before I retired. After I was there for a month I told my immediate supervisor that I was an atheist. He was a devout Baptist and he was shocked because based upon the way I treated the homeless there, he assumed I was a Christian. But he respected me enough to tell me that he would never try and convert me and he never did (as I wrote, he was a Baptist and they're all about witnessing to the unbelievers).

Far, far too many today call themselves "Christians" but are neither followers of Jesus who was himself a homeless man ("the Son of Man has no place to lay his head" --Matthew 8:20) or they are just lukewarm. God would prefer you to be either hot or cold (a non-believer) but if you are lukewarm he will spew you out of his mouth. So an atheist is better in the eyes of God than a lukewarm Christian.

[Torchlight]

32. And dismiss nation-states, legal systems, and economies also

for being nothing more than imaginary constructs as well.

[shrike3]

34. No offense, but isn't GD supposed to be for political discussions and the like?

There was a thread locked here not long ago and the reason was that religious discussions did not belong in GD.

Yes, I know atheism is not a religion, but religion is invariably brought up in such threads. There should be consistency, IMO.

[usonian]

40. Israel and Palestine is also supposed to be exclusively in its own group.

Alas, I am not God.

At least, not on DU!

[Iggo]

35. Preach!

[codfisherman]

37. On a much related note

My pants are brown. Everyone should wear brown pants. They're the greatest.

[Auggie]

41. I read and listen to Science

[Sky Jewels]

43. Men made up the Big Three monotheisms to promote and maintain male supremacy.

Women, especially, need to walk away from this toxic bullshit and belief in a cruel male asshole sky wizard and his magical undead carpenter son (who is also himself, go figure). None of it makes a shred of sense and there is zero evidence to support any of the supernatural stories inherent in these patriarchal mythologies.

The religions that were based on worship of nature and appreciated the feminine and fertility aspects of nature were exponentially better than these MAN-made stupid Bronze Age/Iron Age Middle Eastern-originated tall tales.

[twodogsbarking]

45. Peace.

[LW1977]

54. Um no!

I will not! And if religion is the cause of all the world’s problems wars, what religion is Kim Jong-Un. Oh wait.. he’s atheist.

[erronis]

56. Interesting how many of the replies seem to imply christianity and the bible as representing religion.

And especially the religion that will take us and the planet to hell.

Plenty of other nasty religions out there. And some pretty damn good ones (someone mentioned Friends).

[dchill]

59. Science demands proof. The law requires it.

Everything else is a bunch of social media clusters.

[NNadir]

62. I don't like it when they proselytize me and feel no..

...to proselytize to them.

I do, of course object when they attempt to insert their most objectionable beliefs into secular law, and will fight against that, but otherwise they van believe what they want at their own peril.

To the extent they demonstrate the worship of an evil person like Trump, of course, they are to treated with contempt, but I do know people of faith who feel about Trump as I do.

[sarisataka]

63. Locking

After review by the hosts, this does not fit the SOP-
Discuss politics, issues, and current events. Posts about Israel/Palestine, religion, guns, showbiz, or sports are restricted in this forum.

Please consider posting in an appropriate religion group