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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsVideos show Chicago police fired nearly 100 shots over 41 seconds during fatal traffic stop
Plainclothes Chicago police officers fired nearly 100 gunshots over 41 seconds during a traffic stop that left one man dead and one officer injured, according to graphic video footage a police oversight agency released Tuesday.
Five officers from a tactical unit who were in an unmarked police vehicle surrounded an SUV last month driven by Dexter Reed, allegedly for failing to wear a seatbelt. Video shows the 26-year-old Black man briefly lowering a window and then raising it and refusing to exit the vehicle as more officers arrived, yelled commands and drew weapons.
The Civilian Office of Police Accountability said preliminary evidence showed Reed fired first, injuring an officer in the Humboldt Park neighborhood on the citys West Side. Then four officers returned fire, shooting 96 rounds.
The gunshots continued even after Reed exited his vehicle and fell to the ground, COPA said in releasing the body-worn camera footage, 911 calls and police reports.
https://apnews.com/article/dexter-reed-chicago-police-shooting-0529419b830040e41bff495f1b8f0313
I wasn't aware that failure to wear a seatbelt was a capital offense.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)It can get you pulled over as in this case and then if you pull a gun and fire at the police as in this case they will shoot back, turns out trying to actively kill the police will not just subject you to getting a ticket but return fire.
Ace Rothstein
(3,373 posts)Although an excessive number of shots were fired, they were fired because he shot at the cops first. Why the dishonest statement about being shot over a seatbelt?
Frasier Balzov
(5,062 posts)Civil damages the City sometimes pays when deadly force gets triggered.
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)don't start shooting at police. They will shoot back.
Frasier Balzov
(5,062 posts)TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Be warned they are graphic (at least the one I watched was)
Chakaconcarne
(2,787 posts)ProfessorGAC
(76,706 posts)...that cops could decide sentences for the court, either.
There is no clearer description of disproportionate response than 5 cops firing 96 rounds over one gunshot. (Assuming for a second thar Reed truly did fire first.)
Also, 5 tac officers pulling a guy over for a seatbelt violation? What the heck is that?
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)If you shoot someone twice and then they turn and put a bullet through your head you messed up.
ProfessorGAC
(76,706 posts)They don't.
What you offer seems a weak excuse, not a good reason.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)How do you know that?
Many people dying of mortal wounds can still pull the trigger.
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)Of bullets the police should have fired?
ProfessorGAC
(76,706 posts)First, don't have a tac team pulling people over for traffic violations.
No traffic stop, no confrontation.
I'm not excusing the guy making the first move. But, there's no first move with no stop.
Second, if they always feel like they should be ready for a full response because of fear for their own safety, setting up situations where they may be afraid is inherently counterproductive.
Finally, as stats show police deaths and injury makes them well down the list of dangerous jobs, taking the same approach of minimizing risk instead of maximizing response seems the most logical solution. Quit creating situations that risk their own safety.
If we find out there was a kidnapping victim in the trunk, I would likely change my view.
But, the disproportionate response started when an tac team pulled someone over for a seatbelt failure.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)And then don't shoot at the police and they won't shoot at you.
Seems like the police were correct to be worried about their safety during this stop
ret5hd
(22,502 posts)Easterncedar
(6,267 posts) don't shoot at the police and they won't shoot at you.
Not wanting to argue about this particular case, but as a general rule, I dont think thats a reliably true statement.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)The police arrest almost a million people a month are you saying most of them get shot at for no reason or do most of them end up safely in jail with no bullet wounds?
Lochloosa
(16,735 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)In 2022 it was around 600,000 a month.
But that's out of 333,000,000 people.
ret5hd
(22,502 posts)Shipwack
(3,065 posts)Fixed it for you.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)....in most cases the officer has no idea the race of the person till they get up to the window.
Have a legal car & obey the traffic regulations is the best way not to get pulled over.
Celerity
(54,408 posts)In theory it is possible, but my cop bullshit detector is starting to twitch.

EX500rider
(12,583 posts)sarisataka
(22,695 posts)But let's go from where your objection began-
"There is no clearer description of disproportionate response than 5 cops firing 96 rounds over one gunshot"
The stop had occurred and the suspect fired, something the civilian oversight board agrees. How many shots should the police have fired?
Igel
(37,535 posts)of the video.
Don't know what, but the start already shows a fair amount of escalation
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)To being shot at?
ProfessorGAC
(76,706 posts)I can't believe anyone here is justifying this.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)For shooting back at someone who shot first. Theres no proportionality rule in a situation where someone tries to kill you.
ProfessorGAC
(76,706 posts)If you're going to accuse me of having an opinion, please show where I'm blaming them.
The guy could have started it, but 95 shots from 5 guys is my issue.
Not responding, but what I consider an overreaction.
As it's clear you can't have a two sided discussion without putting words in my mouth, there's no point in either of us continuing this.
I'm always willing to disagree, agreeably. Fabricating what I said makes this not one of those sort of exchanges.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)I just disagree that we can conclude the police overreacted because they fired X amount of shots.
harumph
(3,278 posts)If he he shot only once and they proceeded to empty their firearms, that is something a reasonable person will likely find excessive. I'm assuming more than a few rounds entered the vehicle cabin very quickly. Maybe fire 20 or so and then pause to assess if Reed is still reponding. Problem comes in with risking injury to non-involved parties/bystanders. Sounds like the cops just lost their shit.
SoFlaBro
(3,790 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)And you can shoot a person once and they still have tons of time to put a bullet between your eyes.
There are videos of suspects returning fire after being shot multiple times.
It's a case of too many is better than not enough.
ExciteBike66
(2,700 posts)Does he get three freebies before they can return fire?
ripcord
(5,553 posts)rollin74
(2,301 posts)the end result of his actions are neither surprising nor unjustified
Torchlight
(6,830 posts)And my suggestion to LEO is that if takes ninety-six, maybe try something a little bit more... efficient.
(that was sarcasm in case Statler or Waldorf are uyp to their old tricks)
Silent3
(15,909 posts)...is that the police are endangering too many other people, apart from the guy who pulled a gun on them, by raining down so much gunfire in response to a single shooter.
But sounds like a lot of second guessing. I just dont think its as easy as folks think. It seems defensible to say stop shooting when youre sure the person who shot at you is incapacitated but not before. But if youre one of the police in that situation how do you know when that is?
ret5hd
(22,502 posts)they could add him to a pot of hamburger helper without using the meat grinder and when they could use the car to shred the extra cheese.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Doesnt support what you suggest happened
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)MorbidButterflyTat
(4,512 posts)along with the vocal justifications.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Or you could just wear your seatbelt and not carry guns and shoot at cops.
I have no problem with people who get stopped for minor violations and it turns out they have warrants or are wanted murderers or car thieves, oh no criminals got in trouble, the horror!
But they deserve to be free to continue living a life of crime!
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)more dangerous to others than not wearing a seat belt.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)I don't understand the objection plus they need to write the ticket to the person not wearing the seat belt not the owner of the car.
The red light camera gets a picture of the person behind the wheel which you can argue in court if it's not you.
And if you have a licence, registration and insurance and are polite you'll most likely just get a warning.
Pull out a gun and start shooting and you're more likely to get terminal lead poisoning.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)loophole. They're applied disproportionately to Black people and create opportunities for heightened conflict, from greater mistrust in a community at best to killing people on the street at the worst.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Wear your seatbelt. have a unexpired registration, don't over tint your windows and don't commit any traffic infractions and you will not get pulled over
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)How about don't have five warrants and carry an illegal firearm and then try to murder the police officer?
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)wait, I get it now. You're someone who believes cops don't lie?
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Otherwise it is just supposition.
Wait I get it now you're one of those people that think the cops are the bad guys and the criminals are just poor little lambs being picked on
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/04/09/police-shot-at-dexter-reed-96-times-in-41-seconds-during-deadly-shootout-watchdog-graphic-video/
Seems like getting a ticket for the seatbelt was a better idea but I guess he was afraid they would search him and find the gun & he would get more charges. Still seems better then initiating a shootout with multiple officers to me.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Plainly visible on the video
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)So taking this all at face value, we've got a so-called tactical unit, in plainclothes and an unmarked car, pulling people over so they can ticket seat-belt violators.
v
As I say, FTP.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Is the argument here he really didn't know they were the police? Then why did he pull over?
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,955 posts)to come to terms with themselves as killers if this tactical unit hadn't decided to make a pretextual stop.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Silent Type
(12,412 posts)a seat belt violation, unless they were just wanting to harass some poor guy. Now if they stopped him for something else that is legitimate, there might be some explanation besides the obvious.
The number of shots fired is outrageous, especially in an area like that. But I can see a bunch of psyched up police cutting loose. Hope they are disciplined just for that.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Not saying it does not happen ever but to say it is common will require some proof
uponit7771
(93,532 posts).
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)uponit7771
(93,532 posts)And no, please cannot tell who's driving the car by running license plates
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)uponit7771
(93,532 posts)Ontheboundry
(306 posts)I have. Two way dashcam. I got pulled over by Tennessee hwp. I had a black hoodie on, and as he drove by he said he couldn't see a seat-belt. I actually believed him. As he wrote the the ticket, I showed him the video and he ripped it up and sent me on my way.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Ontheboundry
(306 posts)But I did. And I'm not white and this was super Appalachia area (I'm from this area also, so I have the accent ). I even admitted I could see the mistake he made
A HERETIC I AM
(24,876 posts)Pull out a gun and start shooting and you're more likely to get terminal lead poisoning.

EX500rider
(12,583 posts)DemocratInPa
(743 posts)Hate cops and want criminals to kill them all.. Its crazy
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)onethatcares
(16,992 posts)In Sister MaryUglies 4th grade class we were taught that only repressive regimes like those in Russian communist countries would have GBU and KGB agents pull up next to a person in unmarked vans while wearing face coverings to conceal their identities. My how times have changed.
The number of shots really isn't the problem here, I wonder why they didn't use that bullhorn thingy to say, "Driver, place your hands out the window and open the door with your left (or right) hand. Driver exit the vehicle and place your hands on the roof of the vehicle, driver walk backwards to the sound of my voice"
Jeez, there were 5 leos in the van,
I don't know, I really don't but that's just my thoughts
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)This was supposed to be a ticket for a seatbelt violation I'm guessing he had warrants
onethatcares
(16,992 posts)"During a traffic stop for felony warrants 5 Chicago police officers fired a total of 96 bullets when it was discovered the driver was not wearing a seapbelt as prescribed by Illinois law"
Now that makes sense in all ways.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)They wouldn't pull you over on a felony warrant stop for the seatbelt, they will pull you over for the warrants, more likely they discovered the warrants after they pulled him over
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,512 posts)EX500rider (10,737 posts)
68. Having watched 100's of police dash cam & body cam footage on YouTube...
....in most cases the officer has no idea the race of the person till they get up to the window.
They don't know the person's race, but they know he has warrants?
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)rollin74
(2,301 posts)during felony or high risk traffic stops. It sounds like this stop was for a minor violation.
Unfortunately, the driver turned out to be armed and then proceeded to fire at officers.
onethatcares
(16,992 posts)5 leos in an unmarked vehicle pull a person over for a minor violation. the driver turns out to be a criminal with a gun and he starts shooting so they return fire. Makes perfectly good sense to me now.
Why are 5 undercover officers of the law riding around in one vehicle looking for traffic violations? I don't get that part of it but then again
rollin74
(2,301 posts)riding around looking for traffic violations
I am also unaware of any limit on how many officers are allowed to ride in one vehicle. My guess is that there is no such limitation.
onethatcares
(16,992 posts)"Five officers from a tactical unit who were in an unmarked police vehicle surrounded an SUV last month driven by Dexter Reed, allegedly for failing to wear a seatbelt. Video shows the 26-year-old Black man briefly lowering a window and then raising it and refusing to exit the vehicle as more officers arrived, yelled commands and drew weapons. "
My hope is that the leos were wearing their seatbelts too.
kacekwl
(9,147 posts)the offender shot 1st at the police. Obviously an honest mistake. This was a totally justified shooting in my opinion. The police officer who fired 50 some shots himself needs to be retrained and put on desk duty until he can control himself. It doesn't matter why he was stopped. I've been stopped for no seat belt but my windows were not tinted and did not have a gun I was willing to use so I got a warning and got home just fine.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)You're saying he did up to four magazine reloads during the shoot?
kacekwl
(9,147 posts)reported on the news. WLS news Chicago.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)As far as I could tell:
Looks like:
Officer 1- fires a few rounds, maybe 7 to 9 (little hard to say though because his gun is out of frame most the time)
Officer 2- 17r, 1 reload, no shots out of the reload
Officer 3-17r, 1 reload then 9r out of the fresh mag for 26r total
Officer 4- 17r, 1 reload, no shots out of reload
Officer 5- gets shot, fires 0
rollin74
(2,301 posts)a supervisor all of us were shooting
marble falls
(71,926 posts)... IF I were armed and a random car forced a stop on me with six screaming maniacs not dressed as law enforcement, not identifing themselves as law enforcement, trying to force my doors open, pointing weapons at me - I'd be shooting back. I will bet the cops in their adrenaline pumped excitement fired first.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)"not dressed as law enforcement" You mean except for the plainly visible jackets some had on with POLICE on them?
ecstatic
(35,075 posts)Wearing a baseball cap, pointing a gun. Are you kidding?
99% of what cops say after murdering someone is a lie.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)The SUV was a typical Ford Explorer with a spotlight and flashing blue lights, he knew they were cops
Jedi Guy
(3,477 posts)98% of statistics on the internet are made up.
Less flippantly, surely you can cite some actual, real statistics to back up that claim, right? It is, after all, a pretty extraordinary claim. I'm sure you wouldn't make such a claim without having solid evidence to back it up.
ForgedCrank
(3,096 posts)"I wasn't aware that failure to wear a seatbelt was a capital offense."
It's not.
This person was on pretrial release already for a felony gun charge. He was pulled over for a seat belt violation, and due to his history, it was a high risk stop. Then, the genius decided to pull a gun out. This tends to make the police pretty nervous, especially if you have a history of being a felon with firearm charges. It is also said that he fired at the police before they started shooting at him, but I don't think that final fact is verified or not.
NoSheep
(8,343 posts)how zealous they were to kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill
kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill and that is a very real problem.
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)EX500rider
(12,583 posts)They keep returning fire till the armed assailant is unable to return fire, when that is is very hard to determine during a gunfight, so more rounds and you live is better then less rounds and the subject put a round through your head as he was bleeding out
Chainfire
(17,757 posts)enid602
(9,686 posts)Id hate to be the parents living in the house in front of the shootout. How do you explain this to your kids?
Jedi Guy
(3,477 posts)"You see, children, if you get pulled over by the police, it's generally inadvisable to pull out a gun and start shooting at them. If you do that, odds are very good you're going to get shot."
Pretty easy to explain, as it turns out. Weird.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,512 posts)Not just the kids will be scarred. Who wouldn't be? Just reading about crap like this over and over makes me sick. Obviously some cops feel entitled t o murder whoever suits them then claim, he shot first.
George Floyd's murder's been forgotten apparently. Cuz cops always tell the truth.
ecstatic
(35,075 posts)Plainclothes cops should not be allowed to accost people and expect obedience. Disgusting.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,512 posts)But I'm sure the officers were terrified and it was only luck that five of them were able to take him out. Poor babies!
DemocratInPa
(743 posts)He fired 11 times at officers.. What do you want them to do, get killed?
Why do we hate the police so much? Seriously.. Are we now rooting for criminal to win?
asm128
(245 posts)The articles posted say nothing like that. Further, there is a question of whether he shot first. And just because the police say he "shot first" definitely doesn't make it true.
DemocratInPa
(743 posts)He def 100% shot first.. Please stop this narrative that the police are ALWAYS in the wrong.
sop
(18,621 posts)Last edited Thu Apr 11, 2024, 09:01 AM - Edit history (1)
"Body cam footage released Tuesday of a traffic stop in Chicago gone horrifically wrong is calling into question the official story told by police on the scene. Five plainclothed Chicago police swarmed 26-year-old Dexter Reeds car on March 21, pumping 96 shots into his vehicle after Reed apparently fired at officers. However, the officers body cam footage tells a very confusing story."
"For instance, why did it take five plainclothed officers in tactical vests with guns drawn jumping out of an unmarked car to swarm a vehicle for a seatbelt violation? Why were officers shouting at Reed right from the start? Why did the officers from across the street feel the need to empty their weapons and then reload? And did Reed really shoot first? After reviewing the video, its unclear both to us and to other news outlets, like CNN. Reeds family also find the entire situation confusing:"
https://jalopnik.com/police-fire-96-times-at-driver-after-pulling-him-over-f-1851400666
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/09/us/dexter-reed-chicago-police-shooting-video/index.html
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)maryland native
(53 posts)The body camera video is hard to watch but also revealing.
Note that in videos of the police chasing down the car, the officers in the police car are getting tossed about inside.
One is hanging on to the headrest in front of him.
You can clearly see that right front is NOT belted in.....
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Little hard to tell but looks more like around 70 rounds fired?
Looks like:
Officer 1- fires a few rounds, maybe 7 to 9 (little hard to say though because his gun is out of frame most the time)
Officer 2- 17r, 1 reload, no shots out of the reload
Officer 3-17r, 1 reload then 9r out of the fresh mag for 26r total
Officer 4- 17r, 1 reload, no shots out of reload
Officer 5- gets shot, fires 0
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)who has watched none of the bodycams. Many of the questions asked are clearly answered in the videos.
EX500rider
(12,583 posts)Or why so many rounds were fired, they shot some, the car jerked forward, they fired some more, the car moved again, he got out and ran to the back of the car, they shot some more.
If he did not want them to keep shooting, throwing his gun out the window and putting both his hands out the window would have been a good start.