Men would never tolerate it.

[Irish_Dem]

Men would never tolerate restrictions on their sexuality or related medical care.

Men would never tolerate being sent to a hospital parking lot to die.

Men would never tolerate being sent to prison for health care decisions.

Men would never tolerate their doctors being sent to prison for proving medical care to males.

Is this why the GOP targets only females when it comes to reproductive issues.
Men are half the reproductive equation, but women are the targets.

[MOMFUDSKI]

1. What would men

do?

[Irish_Dem]

3. Insurrection.

What would happen if men's viagra was taken away.
Or masturbation meant a jail sentence?

[JoseBalow]

12. Would masturbation be allowed in jail?

[soldierant]

33. I don't know that is it now.

[Orrex]

36. The way I understand it, you don't want to be on laundry duty on sock day.

[soldierant]

38. Not surprising - but that doesn't mean it's allowed, that means

they haven't been caught.

[Irish_Dem]

62. If masturbation is made illegal, it will only be for females.

Male sexual activities will never be curtailed by the male power structure.

[Martin68]

108. Insurrection would be suicide by cop - or the U.S. military.

[Irish_Dem]

109. No. White males become heroes and get a slap on the wrist.

And get a full pardon by a GOP president.

[Martin68]

110. Only if there is a GOP president.

[Irish_Dem]

111. No. Courts giving slap on the wrists now.

J6 criminals getting off very lightly.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Are...are you saying women "tolerate" these things?

[Irish_Dem]

4. The subject of my post is the psychosocial aspects of male behavior.

As it relates to current political trends.
And how this influences politicians.

Your question is another topic.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. But men *do* tolerate those things.

Restrictions on gay sexuality took years to turn back, and only because small groups of vocal, revolutionary fringes protested. Mainstream gay men -- white, well off, possibly closeted or down low -- could afford to not have to fight for it. They definitely tolerated it.

Many men are currently tolerating -- and in fact driving the push for -- restricting IVF care.

Are men as a whole tolerating the current moves on abortion and related reproductive care?

[Irish_Dem]

21. Would straight white males tolerate sexual control and punishment?

Gay males were a persecuted male subgroup.
Treated like other subjugated groups.
The target of draconian punishment and control.

But that is not the topic I am discussing.

I am talking about straight, Christian males subjugating women.

And would straight white males tolerate being persecuted like women are being persecuted now?

[MerryBlooms]

44. You're eventually have to discuss women subjugation of women.

To me, that's worse, and something I can't wrap my brain around.

[intheflow]

46. Many women vote against their own interests

because they’ve been groomed to accept male dominance and/or feel trapped by economics if they have kids and a male breadwinner. So many white women just go along to get along, they end up succumbing to the propaganda pressure machine.

[Irish_Dem]

61. Excellent point.

I just posted something similar.

Like all humans, any subjugated class has a Darwinian drive to survive, a deeply ingrained genetic
wiring to ensure the survival of themselves and especially their offspring.

For most of history women have had no rights, no power, no access to money or property.
They were at the mercy of their male family members.

To make sure their children survived, had food, shelter, etc. they had to play along
with the power structure. And they may have bought the story that women were inferior
and not smart enough to manage their own affairs.

[Irish_Dem]

60. Some members of a subjugated class will align with the powerful oppressors.

That is historical fact.
It is not surprising.

People will do what they have to do to survive.
Some people buy the oppressors' propaganda and gaslighting.

[Probatim]

6. Some women do - and some, like men, revel in the fact they can force their views on other women.

Ask my mother-in-law and her daughter. Ask half the women in their church.

They tolerate these things because they "know" they'll never be in these situations. These things only happen to the other. To those they consider undeserving.

[Irish_Dem]

63. Some members of a subjugated group willingly assist the power structure.

They help the oppressors. They may see themselves as special and elevated.
And help the oppressors control and punish others.

[hadEnuf]

84. Some people will just do anything for power.

n/t

[bluescribbler]

5. Too many men

Too many men want, (need?), to control women. Without that "power", they feel emasculated, diminished, and find that intolerable. And the problem is that too many men grow up believing, even if only subconsciously, that they have the "God Given Right" to control women.

[onecaliberal]

27. This! Fuck the patriarchy.

[bdamomma]

45. This is what I think

"God given right?". Eff that.

[Sky Jewels]

49. And they pretend their no -existent sky wizard is a male.

Christianity has been a patriarchal cancer on this country.

[Irish_Dem]

64. Males are taught they have a God given right to their sexuality and body.

They are independent and autonomous.

Unlike women who must be controlled and punished.

[SergeStorms]

8. The first step on the way....

to a total dictatorship is always by demonizing one or more segments of the population. This time, republicans have chosen women, people of color, and immigrants, as amazing as that seems. They're attempting to remove anyone who doesn't look like, think like, or act like them.

The one segment that will always remain untouchable, though, is conservative white men. 🙄

[Irish_Dem]

65. Excellent point.

It is the exact point I am making here.

The white male power structure has deliberately targeted historically subjugated groups for a reason.
These groups have been habituated to oppression, have only recently been granted hard fought for rights.

Public support is not deeply ingrained as is the case for white male groups.

So these previously oppressed groups make good targets.
The old prejudices and gaslighting are easily enacted.
For the purpose of gaining power and votes for the oppressor class.

[Progressive dog]

9. I would never have to tolerate it

because men can't get pregnant.

[Irish_Dem]

16. But men are half the reproduction equation.

And are totally out of the punishment/control loop.

[Progressive dog]

119. But men aren't ever pregnant

that I know of. We risk a lot less. We should be out of the control loop except as much as our partner allows.

[Irish_Dem]

121. Yes I agree. Men should not control women for any reason.

Women should control their own bodies and their own destinies.

[Irish_Dem]

23. Also the issue is not really about pregnancy or abortion.

Most male politicians don't care about abortion issues.
Their wives, girlfriends, daughters will always have access to high grade medical abortions.

It is about using their power to control and punish and to get votes.

[FakeNoose]

35. Nailed it! This right here

This goes back to before the Roe v. Wade ruling. All access and power for "me" and none for "thee."

[twodogsbarking]

10. Many men are pro-abortion and many women are not.

Last edited Wed Apr 10, 2024, 07:05 AM - Edit history (1)

It is an attack on people's rights. For those picking the fly shit out of pepper I should have stated pro-choice.
For those who believe it is men against women I have nothing.

[marybourg]

55. "Pro-abortion"?

Do they demonstrate outside maternity clinics exhorting women to get abortions, rather than giving birth? Do you mean “pro-choice”?😂

[DFW]

56. A vital point. Pro-abortion RIGHTS (or, simply, pro-choice)

No one is “pro-abortion” any more than they are “pro-chemotherapy.” It is an unpleasant solution to a problem that should be the right of everyone who wants or feels they need it.

[twodogsbarking]

81. OK. Good greif.

[twodogsbarking]

80. Well, excuuuuse. me.

[Scrivener7]

104. You've missed the point.

[twodogsbarking]

106. So have you.

[bucolic_frolic]

11. Men still have an edge in money and parlay that to the (largely) male political class and

the clergy chimes in so they can maintain their religious, psychological, spiritual, and money power.

These male people have nothing to do but think of ways to control women and keep them barefoot and cooking for men's pleasure.

The root of it is the Big Bamboo. Women should so go on strike. I mean it. I mean it in that way.

[raccoon]

20. Thank you.

[Irish_Dem]

22. Yes white straight males targeting an historically subjugated class.

They know straight white males would not tolerate draconian sexual control and punishment.

[onecaliberal]

29. I agree completely.

There will be a lot of sexual violence committed against those who did though.

[lindysalsagal]

13. Woman's rights and Obama and religious backlash.

Plain and simple.

[IronLionZion]

14. This man doesn't want those restrictions for women either

so we can do whatever we can to elect Dems everywhere, even moderate Dems in red states, over these Gilead MAGA types. State legislatures and courts are an important place where the right is fighting for Handmaid's Tale. The GOP does have it's Aunt Lydias too.

[Irish_Dem]

72. Are you an outlier or the norm?

Men fighting for women's rights?

[IronLionZion]

78. There should be plenty of male allies on the left

I was just saying as a party, Dems need to elect more pro-choice state legislators and judges. That's where GOP is putting in major restrictions on this issue.

[Tetrachloride]

15. Given this thread's points, and the current balances of power,

what is the next step or two ?

[Irish_Dem]

17. Excellent question Tetra.

What is the next step or two?

[SARose]

25. Great topic

I believe the next step is two-fold:

1) So called liberal, main line Protestant leaders must speak up. I’m talking about Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Unitarians, and Jews. None of us believe there is a “child” at 6 week gestation. There are various groups trying to get this information out to the public. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

2) We have to convince young people to not only vote but to run for office. The DNC needs to spend money on young people like Rep Jasmine Crockett.

We must be patient and play the long game. Jest my two cents.

[Irish_Dem]

28. Good points.

1. Male religious leaders speaking up.
2. Young people becoming more politically active and running for office.

I think we need short and long term strategies.

Women are dying, doctors are leaving the OB-GYN field.
We need immediate help.

But yes we know that a long term plan is necessary.

The white male power structure tends to go back to prior subjugated classes to score
political points and obtain power. It is going to be an ongoing battle.

Welcome to DU!

[Attilatheblond]

19. Wondering about how women could pull off a tax revolt

Or maybe just general strikes.

[Irish_Dem]

30. Yes several comments about a strike of some sort.

Civil disobedience.

Or a personal strike in the home of some sort.

[Hope22]

18. But men seem to tolerate

Just fine all of this and more being taken from the females in their lives. It really sucks to be female in this country and the outlook is getting bleaker. Until men stand up and join in nothing will charge for the good.

[Irish_Dem]

31. Women need male allies.

Yes good point.

[Hope22]

34. I beg the men in my life to write the emails, make the calls!

Three educated males that seem to have brains in their heads have…done..nothing. I am a witness to the middle chapters of The Handmaids Tale! We have already gone too far down the path. Not only the do nothing but because as I see this I am noticing other ways that my ideas and my voice get stifled regularly. Things that I didn’t notice or let slide have become real problems because making a stand now equates to ‘scary mommy’.

[Deuxcents]

40. I hear you. I just get a nod or a "yeah" when I speak to men in my family

About the not so distant past that I needed permission to get credit, buy my first house and now in this time, I have less rights than I did when I bought my first house. You bet I’m angry

[Hope22]

54. My heart goes out to you.

Not sure how this will go. Hugs and love to you. 💗

[Irish_Dem]

66. Males are deeply habituated to female subjugation.

It is part of their world view.

That is the point of my OP.

To show that men would never tolerate being subjugated like women are.
The male power structure knows it and would never treat men like women are treated.

And males take it for granted that women are oppressed and treated differently.

[Irish_Dem]

59. Why do smart, good men do nothing?

Even when a female family member asks them for simple help which would not cost them anything.

Are straight males so habituated to being part of the male power structure
they cannot cross lines to help subjugated females?

Historically men have given women rights only when forced to do so.
It was not done willingly.

[Hope22]

87. Yes women have suffered and sacrificed for our rights!

Nothing was given. They have been beaten, starved, imprisoned, punished and so much more for standing up! It is still a mind boggle to me. The fierce rejection of love and care to not stand up for women you love, women you work beside, is so unbelievable. Obviously we live in a wonderfully diverse world and there are many caring people that are supportive. What we need is a national strike. Inside and outside the home. It looks like it will take this to avoid a complete Handmaid’s Tale collapse, if it is even preventable at this point in time.

[Irish_Dem]

98. Just the right to vote was a very brutal battle.

In the UK women were beaten, tortured, imprisoned as they marched for the right to vote.

The male power struggled eventually had to reluctantly allow women to vote.
They saw that women would die and be imprisoned in their battle.

Here in the US now, women have rights being taken away but also being jailed, tortured
and killed via refusal to give them healthcare.

[Tree Lady]

24. If roles were reversed and women had all the power

they might take it. I have watched a few househusbands take on the traditional role women use to do along with giving the woman more control and power. I think its a money thing.

The answer of course is equal rights for all.

I am reading a book for bookclub right now, true story about a woman in 1860 put in the insane asylum just for not submitting and having her own thoughts. I think the book should be required reading for all women seniors in high school. Would open their eyes to the power men use to have that we fought hard to undo. Might show them they need to start fighting now!

The book is called, The Woman They Could Not Silence.

What I have learned so far is back then women were property just like slaves. We had no legal say to our lives, either our parents or husbands controlled us.

[Irish_Dem]

67. I have actually seen women forced into psych care for reasons you describe.

I am a retired mental health professional.
And early in my career I provided all kinds of crisis and emergency services.

Sometimes a husband would bring in a wife to have her committed to a psych facility
because the husband said she was crazy.

So of course a license professional has to do an intake to evaluate the situation.
Some times the wife was perfectly sane and there was some kind of money motive going on.

For example one criminal type husband who was in legal trouble had signed over all his
assets to his wife in the hopes of sheltering the money. She then turns right around and files
for divorce, claiming all the assets as hers.

He is furious and wants her institutionalized and declared "insane."

The wife was smart as whip and perfectly sane when I talked with her.
I tried not to laugh when the husband insisted she be pink slipped.

[Irish_Dem]

70. What if women held all the power on the planet?

That would be a good OP.

[dlk]

26. American women need to wise up

Whose body is it?

[Not Heidi]

53. "wise up"? Really?

[Irish_Dem]

68. How does a subjugated class obtain equal rights?

History tells us they have to fight for those rights.
Oppressors never ever give them willingly.

In the case of women, they fought very hard decades ago and were granted rights.
Now those rights have been taken away.

What is the next step?

[dlk]

93. Yes, too many women are passive about their rights

Republican women, especially. Women are the majority of Americans and if more of us were actively supporting and voting for women’s freedoms, we wouldn’t be here.

Unfortunately too many men want to return women to chattel/personal property status, and there are women passively following along.

[SARose]

32. A Hobby Lobby plot twist

marks a win for abortion rights in Indiana

Snip

The unanimous ruling from the three-judge panel, which found that the state’s abortion ban burdens the religious beliefs of those whose faiths permit abortions, signals the possibility of a long overdue shift in the conservative bias of religious freedom jurisprudence. It also signals the emergence of a partial, albeit untested, argument for people needing an abortion in states that have banned it.

The Indiana case was brought in 2022 by five anonymous plaintiffs of faith and the group Jewish Hoosiers for Choice. They’re seeking a religious exemption from the abortion ban Indiana enacted following the U.S. Supreme Court’s reversal of Roe v. Wade that year. They said the ban violates their rights under the state’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), which, like the federal law the owners of Hobby Lobby successfully relied on to avoid providing contraception coverage, protects religious objectors from laws that “substantially burden” their “sincerely held” religious beliefs.

Snip

Still, the decision shows how, in the decade since the Hobby Lobby decision, there's been a backlash against the Christian right’s efforts to impose their religious beliefs on everyone else. The Hobby Lobby case grew out of the Christian right’s broader attack on Obama-era efforts to expand reproductive and LGBTQ rights. The Christian right cast those policies as tantamount to persecution of Christians.

With Republicans in control of the House of Representatives following the 2010 midterms, they staged a series of volatile hearings intended to portray Obama as “trampling” on the religious freedom and conscience rights of Christians who opposed contraception and abortion. In the process, those Republicans made it clear that they believed that religious freedom for conservative Christians took precedence over the rights of everyone else. In other words, they believed in religious freedom for me but not for thee. That’s why the Indiana Court of Appeals decision finding religious freedom for those with opposite beliefs on abortion is so momentous.

Read More

This!

[Irish_Dem]

69. The religious right cannot convince people to willingly accept their rules.

So they must seek legal remedy to force their dogma on everyone.
Make laws to force everyone to be evangelical Christians.

But yes it is backfiring.

[Elessar Zappa]

37. I think women will show they won't tolerate it either this November.

Women aren’t going to ignore the assault upon their rights by the Republicans.

[Sogo]

42. Only women??

There must be men who care about the women in their lives getting the care they need, who will not tolerate it either.

[William Gustafson]

47. I for one, is one of those guys...

I have female family members, granddaughters and female friends that all deserve to make their own decisions about their body's and not the government..... I support the right for a women to decide with her doctor what is best for her.... equal rights under the law...

[William Gustafson]

48. I for one support a women's choice, and I am a male...

I have female family members, granddaughters and female friends that all deserve to make their own decisions about their body's and not the government..... I support the right for a women to decide with her doctor what is best for her.... equal rights under the law...

[Elessar Zappa]

50. No, many men too.

But I believe it will be the amount of angry women going to the polls that will give us victory.

[Irish_Dem]

71. History tells us that the oppressor class does not rescue the subjugated class.

It is the oppressed group who must fight for their rights.

[Not Heidi]

51. Your lips to Bob's ears. n/t

[keithbvadu2]

39. Republicans offer this...

[Irish_Dem]

73. The GOP believes attacking subjugated groups will get them elected to office.

We shall see if it works or not.

[et tu]

41. era

needs to be made law, i think that is the first step
and it is way past time. laws are needed to fight
all the legal mumbo jumbo.

[Irish_Dem]

74. Highly unlikely the male power structure will pass the ERA.

It goes totally against their belief system.

[et tu]

86. and that is exactly

why women need to vote and their allies-
past time for equal rights and it won't get done unless
women and their allies make it so. power is never easily
relinquished and women want to share, not dominate.
fragile men keep the patriarchy strong.
why acquiesce on this fundamental issue?

[Irish_Dem]

97. Excellent points.

You stated: "Power is never easily relinquished and women want to share, not dominate.
Fragile men keep the patriarchy strong."

And then you ask: "why acquiesce on this fundamental issue?"

A very good question.

Subjugated groups find it very difficult to take
on the power structure. It is often bloody and brutal.

If women have been socialized to share and cooperate,
and men to dominate, we can see the difficulties in a battle.

[OMGWTF]

43. There is no pregnancy without a sperm donor. Why are the men not responsible for anything here?

Women don't need men to have a good life and I am thrilled that the 4B movement has made its way to America -- https://www.thecut.com/2023/03/4b-movement-feminism-south-korea.html

I've been happily married for 30 years but my husband is 11 years older than me. If anything happens to him, I will never pursue another romantic relationship. Men are a lot of work and trouble. Besides, at my age, all they're looking for is a nurse with a purse. Fk that shit -- I will get a cat.

[Irish_Dem]

75. The point of my OP is that men will never tolerate any sexuality restrictions.

Never.

Men are half the reproductive equation but are completely immune from restrictions.

[H2O Man]

52. I'm not sure

that there is any benefit accrued in making this a male vs female issue. Millions of men are pro-choice, and millions of women are anti-choice. That reality seems more important than a fantasy about what men would not stand for and similar nonsense. That's not to say it is not a women's issue, but rather to correctly identify who the enemy is.

[TeamProg]

57. They aren't EVEN thinking about that scenario. Sorry to disappoint you, but those thoughts do not register

any wave lengths on a conservative’s gray matter scale. “Does not compute.”

[betsuni]

58. And men would never do it, wouldn't even occur to them.

[obamanut2012]

76. Wonen, not females

You said men, not males. Do the same for women. It is such a dog whistle to say "female." Female is an adjective, not a noun, for humans.

Ironic you did this on a pretty victim blamey against women OP.

[Irish_Dem]

77. You are 100% incorrect.

My motives are certainly not underhanded as you suggest.

My OP is not about females, but about male psychosocial functioning and how it impacts
oppressor class behavior.

The use of the world female is standard in social science research.

I deliberately use the word female because I am believe in rights for all females,
not just adults. Female children count too.

Nitpicking on standard word usage is counterproductive to the cause of female rights.

[Vinca]

79. I don't think we read the same post. It seemed pretty clear to me.

And, FYI, according to the Oxford Dictionary, "female" can be used as a noun.

[obamanut2012]

112. Then you need to educate yourself about the manosphere and the use of female as a noun

[Vinca]

124. I'm more concerned with actions than words.

[twodogsbarking]

82. Sure seems like people want to argue.

[Hope22]

88. ....about what? N/t

[twodogsbarking]

89. Exactly.

[Hope22]

90. Let me clarify...

Explain what you think people are arguing about. I see this as a fight for rights that are being taken even after the people of many states have voted that they want reproductive rights protected. Help me understand.

[twodogsbarking]

91. Some of the DU crowd seem to want to just disagree. Not a comment about choice.

[obamanut2012]

113. I am disagreeing with the OP , which I am allowed to do

It isn't me wanting to argue. I am not arguing.

[twodogsbarking]

115. I wasn't referencing you.

[apnu]

83. IMO its Christian perversion

I am male.

I have met so many priests and preachers, all male, who have lectured to me about the evils of women. And some nuns when I was in Catholic school. The lecture was always the same: women are at fault for Original Sin.

The very notion of forgiveness, the main tenet of Jesus, was out the window.

All this is Christian men injecting their twisted Christianity on everyone else, and the Republican Party has wedded themselves to these ‘men’.

Its a time honored tradition, see the Vatican rule of Europe from the Dark Ages onward.

They don’t go after men because they fear male backlash, they leave men out of it because they see men as innocent because of Original Sin.

I am an atheist because of this rank hypocrisy. I cannot tolerate being told what to do by people who don’t follow their own god’s commands. That there are contradictions in the Bible is for them to sort out, not me.

[SARose]

92. This this this

Ahhh yes original sin. Good ole Eve and her feminine wiles. But wait, what about Lilith - the first Eve? Why was she kicked out of Eden? Her sin was believing herself equal to Adam. She went on to have sex with monsters because she refused to sit down and shut up. Seriously? Sex with monsters - Trump? 😆

It’s funny Lilith has disappeared from so many “modern” Bibles. Hmmmm

Personally, I hate seeing this as a man vs woman issue. When this topic becomes heated we see some men in one corner and some women in the other both shouting.

I believe the issue of abortion is one more instance of the powers that be dividing our society for their own aims. Jest my two cents.

[Irish_Dem]

102. Religions say women are to blame because men cannot control their sexual urges?

That seems to be on ongoing male theme.
Enshrined in religions around the world.

In some countries women are now under house arrest because men cannot tolerate
their presence in public.

[apnu]

103. You aren't wrong.

Most religions today do put women behind men, and find ways to blame women for all the bad things.

I remember going to a primitive village display on Kawaii and looking at a hut that said its purpose was to house ‘unclean’ women. ‘Unclean’ means ‘on their period’ in this context.

So its not isolated to Christianity.

[Irish_Dem]

105. Oh yes, the Taliban has made it clear how they see women.

And the Asian cultures are hard on women too.
In fact Japanese and South Korean women have gone on strike.
They won't have sex with men or get married like in the past.

[mopinko]

85. there was a case here in il a while back. a kid needed a transplant.

a kidney, iirc. the ex wife couldnt force the dad to EVEN B TESTED for compatibility. let alone force him to give up a kidney. u know if the genders were flipped, that mom wd have been on the table so fast it wd make your head spin. not that a mother wd have needed to b forced.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

94. A most SUPERB and THOUGHT PROVOKING post.

[Irish_Dem]

101. Thanks Proud.

[LastDemocratInSC]

95. This is proof that regarding the mechanics of starting human pregnancy

it's definitely more blessed to give than to receive.

[Irish_Dem]

100. Yes the recipient is the one who is sent to die or go to jail.

[HAB911]

96. OLD men would never tolerate it

that's why only 18-19 year olds ever get drafted.

[Irish_Dem]

99. The old men are the ones sending the kids into battle.

The old men in power send young people to die.

[twodogsbarking]

107. And they sell the honor every chance they get.

[AllaN01Bear]

114. no viagra for thee either.

[twodogsbarking]

116. This is not a male vs. female issue.

[Irish_Dem]

117. The American power structure is mostly male.

The American ruling class is subjugating women, making them second class citizens.
Denying them life saving health care and sending them to jail.

[twodogsbarking]

118. All that and more. It is not a male vs. female issue.

I am a white, elderly male and disagree with the ruling class that is mostly white, male and elderly.
It is not a male vs. female issue. Making it such does not help, in my opinion.

[Irish_Dem]

120. Facts are facts.

In the US, as in most parts of the world, the power structure is male.

And that power structure is killing women and denying them their basic rights.
The power structure is not doing this to white males at the same time.
Even though they are half the reproductive equation.

Whether we like it or not, that is the reality.

The most important step in solving any problem is first facing the truth and the reality.
Even it if is painful.

[twodogsbarking]

122. But this...

Who were the Supreme Court justices in 1973 when Roe V. Wade was decided.
Burger Court (1972-1975)
Warren E. Burger.
William O. Douglas.
William J. Brennan, Jr.
Potter Stewart.
Byron R. White.
Thurgood Marshall.
Harry A. Blackmun.
Lewis F. Powell, Jr.

[Irish_Dem]

125. Women's rights are totally on the whim of the male power structure.

Male rights are seen as inalienable and god given.

Not so much for females.

The male power structure giveth and taketh away women's rights.

You prove my point.

[twodogsbarking]

126. Men need to rally for the cause. It is their cause too. I am insulted to be included with

those who deny the rights of others because of my sex.
Had abortion been available in th 60s it would have changed both of my sister's lives
because they got pregnant and married and dropped out of school. They did both go on to lead
successful and fulfilling lives but it wasn't easy. Peace.

[twodogsbarking]

123. It is not male vs female. Face the facts even if painful.