Catholics Now Tilt to the Republicans

[applegrove]

Catholics Now Tilt to the Republicans

April 9, 2024 at 4:57 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 166 Comments

https://politicalwire.com/2024/04/09/catholics-now-tilt-to-the-republicans/

"SNIP...........

A new Pew Research survey finds protestants remain solidly Republican, and Catholics now tilt slightly toward the GOP.

...........SNIP"

[Marcus IM]

1. Onward christian soldiers!

[WarGamer]

13. off topic... but what a magnificent painting of victory at the siege of Jerusalem.

Emil Signol...

[Hassler]

2. Yet they support abortion rights. Something doesn't add up

[maxsolomon]

8. which Catholics are you referencing?

It isn't my conservative Irish/German Catholic relatives. They're solidly anti-choice and have been for decades.

[TwilightZone]

10. Your relatives don't represent all Catholics.

The majority of Catholics are pro-choice. In 2022, according to an AP poll, 68% said Roe should be left alone and 63% said abortion should be legal in all or most cases.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/68-us-catholics-say-roe-should-be-left-alone-poll-says

[maxsolomon]

12. I've never met one of these pro-choice Catholics.

I believe you, but I just don't know where they live.

I've met plenty of pro-choice Ex-Catholics.

[BuddhaGirl]

15. I was raised Catholic

and my schooling was all Catholic.

I know plenty of current Catholics who are pro-choice. In multiple states

[H2O Man]

33. I have.

Lots of them, in fact. I live in NY and and familiar with Catholics in PA, as well. That's not to say all of them, of course. But the majority between 40 and 70. Just the opposite for older than 70.

[sarisataka]

41. Well you just met one on DU

[maxsolomon]

42. if I may ask,

do you attend a church with a priest whose homilies are regularly anti-choice?

[sarisataka]

44. I cannot recall any homilies

that were specifically about abortion or how one should vote on it.

There is a prayer added on the higher holy days that prays for unborn children and that every child be seen as a gift from God. It has no condemning language in the prayer. The gist is that elective abortion should become unnecessary, while carefully avoiding acknowledging that would require the use of birth control.

[Elessar Zappa]

48. I have.

Here in NM, most Catholics, especially Mexican-American Catholics, are pro-choice. They’re pro-gay marriage too. It’s backed up by polls.

[maxsolomon]

49. Different regions, different Catholics.

I'm from Irish/German Catholic Westside Cincinnati Catholics. If you're pro-choice, you keep it to yourself at Mass.

I guess your priests don't make a big deal out of the Church's official stance on Abortion?

[Elessar Zappa]

54. Not sure.

I’m not a believer but I went to a mass with my mom a few months ago and during the prayers, the priest prayed “for an end to abortion”. So I assume he’s not pro-choice but I don’t know how big of an issue it is.

[EastBayGuy]

51. This is anecdotal, most of my relatives are "Liberal Catholics" - pro-choice, pro family planning, pro women.

We're in our 50s and 60s, went to Catholic schools, kids went to Catholic schools.The kids are not religious at all.

[maxsolomon]

53. You're describing my immediate family, but not my extended family.

I'd call my siblings and I "Ex-Catholics". I'll still go to mass - if I have to.

Of course it's anecdotal. It appears that, in the case of Choice, the majority of Catholics completely disregard the teaching of the Church and feel no conflict about it.

[riversedge]

52. I know several of them in my extended family.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

22. The clear, official stance of the chuch is anti-abortion.

It's not even kind of unclear. And it's a big sin to support pro-life.

Not disputing your numbers, but they are going against established and clear church dogma.

[H2O Man]

34. It's true

that it is the established position of the church's leadership to be against abortion. Yet that does not mean that all church members follow that. Not even close. In recent decades, American Catholics frequestly identify as "buffet Catholics," taking some but not all of the leadership's policies. This includes a significant number that only attend mass on Christmas, Easter, weddings, and funerals.

[Baltimike]

45. Allow me to introduce myself and a group that I have belonged to for more than 20 years

https://www.catholicsforchoice.org/

[Hassler]

60. 56% according to Pew Research poll

[Celerity]

3. Up the atheists and agnostics!

[LW1977]

4. Especially Kim Jong-Un's religion!

Oh wait..

[Celerity]

7. North Korean children told Kim Jong-un 'is a god who can read their thoughts'

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/north-korean-children-told-kim-22634989

A North Korean defector has detailed the depths of the country's propaganda machine which tells children its supreme leader can read their minds.

Yeonmi Park grew up in the hermit kingdom where the concepts of 'love' and 'friendship' do not exist, at least according to its ultra strict education system.

Feelings of adoration are to be directed at the supreme leader alone.

Park's parents never told her they loved her - a similar situation to many of her country-folk, who were used to seeing scores of people starved to death in the streets.

snip

[applegrove]

14. I used to joke that the GOP would get angry at national democratic emotional events,

like Paul Wellstones and family funeral, because they thought human emotions should be saved for corporate ads manipulating viewers. Now it is not so funny. Un reminds me of Trump in your post.

[Celerity]

16. Trump is so so jelly of the NoKo Kim Jong Un cult

Trump absolutely wants to be worshipped as a god. His egoistic demands know no boundaries. If he cannot control the nation, he likely will try to destroy it.

[NanaCat]

47. You really don't want to go there

Because the number of murderous dictators who have been Christian--and killed in the name of Christianity--are a long, long way from zero.

Awful as Kim Jong-Un is, do let us know when he killed for religious reasons, unlike literally hundreds of Christian rulers.

We'll wait.

[Silent3]

5. Could simply mean that non-Republican Catholics are leaving the Church...

...or perhaps religion altogether.

[erronis]

9. That was my first thought also. Don't know where they end up - non Catholic or non (r)epuglicon.

Leaving a cult is hard. It would be good to have a welcoming place for them.

Of course, the protestent evilgelicals would like them to join their cult.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

23. I grew up very conservative Catholic.

If I were still religious (firmly an atheist), I would join the progressive side of the Episcopalians. The mass is very similar.

[harumph]

18. I don't know if you can be an ex-Catholic per se,

I think the word is recovering. My liberal family stopped attending mass about 4 years ago and never looked back. Basically we are non-observant and if polled - and depending on the day - might or might not identify ourselves as cultural Catholics. Part of going to church is more than the dogma and ritual. it's about liking your fellow parishioners. When we saw that many of them were going coo-coo and had made common cause with the evangelicals, we promptly left. I suggested to my teenage son he read some philosophy and that organized religion, while historically interesting and worthy of comparative study, offers no answers to our pressing problems. Moreover, the messages of any real value (be kind - be generous - golden rule, etc.) have taken a back seat to politics.

[Drum]

29. Couldn't agree more.

[NanaCat]

50. As if atheists from other Christian sects or even other religions

Didn't have a community that was important to the faith they once adhered to. Every atheist who once belonged to a religion experienced the same basic community of believers, and that's true of the fundies, Anglicans, Jews, Muslims, Hindi--name the religion they all--ALL--came from faiths with rich cultural and community lives.

Rejecting a religion while enjoying some ties to the community, is immaterial, because what matters is lack of belief in a deity or in what a sect teaches. If you don't believe in the deity/tenets, then you're not a member of the religion anymore, period, because you don't adhere to the defining concept of religion: Believing in the existence of its deity and/or the tenets of the faith.

So no longer belonging to a religion doesn't erase deep cultural traditions. It merely frees you to choose those that have value to you on your terms, and never mind what it means to anyone else--or to your previous religion.

[MOMFUDSKI]

6. It is the abortion issue.

They just have to stick with that thingy. I have a cousin . . .

[we can do it]

11. Tilt? Is that a good thing because they've been solid Rs as far as I've seen.

[FakeNoose]

17. I know a LOT of former Catholics ... including most of my family

I also know several current Catholics, the kind that go to church every week.

Of those 2 groups I don't know anyone who votes R.

[Ping Tung]

19. My 84 year old wife was born a RC, went through RC schools, and finally gave it up entirely 40 years later over...

the abortion issue. Note: She never had, never needed, and never would have had an abortion.

She's now a Quaker.

[Cha]

20. Well ain't that Fucking Stupid.. Catholics for Rapists,, Traitors, and Fascism.. Whoopi !

That's Ridiculous.

They have a Pres who is Catholic and Now they want the Anti Christ.. GMAFB.

[B.See]

21. I think topics like this one (and the Rural American discussion)

Tend to divide us at a time of crisis for our nation when we can ill afford to be divided. NOT that I'm saying such is the intent of either topic or poster.

I just think that's the effect. Especially when wholesale generalities are being applied.

[applegrove]

26. Airing out the issues is important. We are far enough from the election that we can do it. Fresh air.

[B.See]

35. Well, I will agree at least that such topics can serve to be a learning experience

for those who may be either misinformed or harboring certain perspectives on such issues, such as discussed in that other thread I mentioned, in which it was revealed that, yes Matilda, there are rural liberals.

Likewise, herein, some have discovered that there are Catholics, like myself, who are pro-choice.

As hinted in my byline, I (and many other Catholics I think) see women's choice, along with gay rights, the right to healthcare, a decent livable wage, consumers' rights, etc. etc. as a CIVIL RIGHT, being fought like never before, 'on many fronts' as it were.

Perhaps that's a sjw perspective as suggested by another here or maybe just one's sense of 'doing the right thing.'

At any rate, I'd allow that such discussions can serve a positive purpose in that they can be enlightening.

That being said though, I do think that Republicans (and especially their MAGA components) demonstrate a better propensity (for better or worse) to look past (if not outright ignore) their differences in order to present a more unified and focused mindset towards their ultimate goal and greater purpose.

And, as I said in another thread, I wish liberals were somewhat better at doing likewise.

[applegrove]

36. Sharing our different stories will result in empathy. Just like reading books increases empathy: being exposed

Last edited Wed Apr 10, 2024, 12:40 AM - Edit history (1)

to the feelings of others is great. That being said yes there comes a time when you need to band together and fight.

[spanone]

24. Cause trmp is so god-like?

[edhopper]

25. My guess

Is its more about who is left as a Catholic, than the Catholics moving right.

[Drum]

27. Honestly, I might expect the Catholics to apply a stricter reading of Scripture than this suggests.

Dunno, just a hunch that T**mp will appeal to fewer than supposed.

Edit to add that I have a hard time imagining any person who professes to a religion to have a total blind spot concerning the R candidate’s utter lack of morality.

[mucifer]

28. Survey was done in 2023. People have short attention spans so not sure what it would be today

I think Dobbs, Gaza, the cost of housing and food could affect polls.

[pdxflyboy]

30. Not This One!!!!

We proudly contribute to Catholics For Choice.

[Beartracks]

31. Disappointing, if not surprising. I thought Catholics largely tilted toward social justice.

Not surprising due to the official abortion stance. But social justice, which is another significant vein in Catholic faith and tradition, is something the Republicans have a demonstrated track record of NOT supporting.

=================

[harumph]

39. There were quite a few social justice Catholics -

My wife being one of them - but we have not gone to mass in about 4 years. I think it's mostly the American Catholic church
with its infestation of extremely shortsighted and insufferable bishops that has gone off the rails and has made itself spiritually irrelevant (but not politically!).

[GenThePerservering]

32. The Catholics I knew were conservative

but when I went to college at a Jesuit university, it was quite the opposite.

And yes, there are ex-Catholics - to say that an ex-practioner is somehow 'recovering' is making catholicism into something it's not - it's a religion, that's all. Like being an ex-presbyterian or baptist or whatever.

[harumph]

40. "Recovering" is a bit of an inside joke.

"The term "recovering Catholic" is used by some former practicing Catholics to describe their religious status. The use of the term implies that the person considers their former Catholicism to have been a negative influence on their life,[1] one to be "recovered" from.[2] The term first came into use in the 1980s.[3]

The term is sometimes used with humorous intent,[4] with a conscious parallel being drawn to the 12-step recovery programs often used by those recovering from addictions,[5] although practicing Catholics often find the term offensive.[6]"

That said, being a Catholic is somewhat different than the other religions you mentioned inasmuch as you still
remain on record as a Catholic per canon law - pretty much despite what you do or say. I refer to you a decent explanation of a "lapsed" Catholic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsed_Catholic

It's complicated.

[awesomerwb1]

37. All you have to do is watch EWTN

the Catholic channel, to see how far to the right a lot of people there are. It's like Fox news lite. Google Raymond Arroyo. He is one of the biggest "personalities" there. He guest hosts on fox news as well and is a far right wing piece of excrement.

[keep_left]

38. EWTN may be even *worse* than Fox "News" in some ways. Fox at least attempts...

...to occasionally have a token lib or (rarely) an actual left-winger on their programs. Whereas EWTN has created a sort of media simulacrum which is entirely hermetically sealed from any outside influence. Raymond Arroyo's show (The World Over) is unquestionably the worst when it comes to propaganda and distortion. I have never seen even a single token opponent on his show. And Arroyo has the the same three or four far-right guests on a nearly constant basis; he also is a frequent visitor and substitute host on Laura Ingraham's TV and radio shows.

[LiberalFighter]

43. But how many are Catholics compared to ten or twenty years ago?

One report has them at 18.7%. Then consider that church attendance continues to go down in the USA.

[Raven123]

56. Bingo. Fewer of them.

[LiberalFighter]

59. Could it be there are fewer Catholics because their beliefs don't coincide with Republican views?

[Baltimike]

46. not this one. nt

[lees1975]

55. Well, Protestant church membership is down 15% since 2016, and Catholics are down 12%. So if they're leaning GOP

then that's good news for us.

[Mad_Machine76]

57. Not coming down on you personally

but why does it seem that there is always never any GOOD NEWS for Democrats? It always seems so bad out there in the corporate media world..........

[TheRealNorth]

58. Remember when the US Catholic leadership said Joe Biden couldn't take communion?

I suspect there were some Liberal Catholics that disassociated themselves with their local church over things like that and abortion.