I am not sure about sending the Crumbley to long prison sentences

[question everything]

Theses are the parents of the high schooler who killed four students in Michigan.

Their lived are ruined and their trials and convictions already sent a message for other parents.

I remember after Columnibe - before social media - that many went after the parents who had no idea what was in their sons’ bedroom.

Granted, I don’t have to worry every day when I send a child to school, but our penal system is aimed to both punish and to prevent future actions by others. (Some also seek closure, but as we have seen with the death penalty it too often does not.)

It is just when I see the news I don’t feel any satisfaction, only sadness, wondering whether this is the best way to go.

[NoRethugFriends]

1. They were totally irresponsible and unresponsive to obvious signs and warnings

They can rot away

[yardwork]

45. Plus they ran away and hid after their son was arrested.

Instead of helping their son, they turned tail and ran, apparently trying to get to Canada.

Also, the father repeatedly threatened the DA while he was in jail.

This is an unusual case.

[drray23]

2. I think it will have the effect to make others think twice

About willfully mishandling weapons, letting them be accessible by kids , teaching them hatred and not caring about the consequences.

[NoRethugFriends]

49. Yiou are assuming rationality

Good luck with that

[Hope22]

3. The case lays it out.

The parents completely ignored the dangers and provided him access to the gun. If I’m not wrong the school had called the parents in on that morning before the murders, requesting they take him home. They did not.

[LuckyLib]

43. At which point the school should have said,

“We looked in his backpack and found a gun. The police are on their way. “

This deference to both students and parents is BS.

[Voltaire2]

4. Our carceral system is extraordinarily harsh.

However these two deserve to lose their freedom for a while. Their actions were at a minimum criminally negligent. The consequences deprived people of their lives.

[Silent Type]

5. Agree with not feeling any "satisfaction" with this sentence. I despise ammosexuals and crummy parents, but

damn I don't know what I'd do with a son in the depths of depression, etc. Although I darn sure wouldn't buy him a gun, and I think that's one reason they got a tough sentence.

But by gawd, this gun junk has to be reduced somehow and parents need to improve their game. I'd bet money they get a reduced sentence at some point.

[poozwah]

18. rights

in our rights obsessed society today, individuals such as these parents and their supporters, seem to feel as though their rights are being violated while ignoring the rights of the victims’ families to get some justice. no right is absolute. exercising any right must be accompanied by responsibility.

[ProfessorGAC]

48. Good Post, And...

...welcome to DU.

[poozwah]

60. thanks

thank you!

[Celerity]

6. I'll make a prediction: this precedent will be used to disproportionately ratfuck black women in re their children

[snpsmom]

33. Unfortunately

you are likely to be correct.

[leftstreet]

34. +1

thin end of the wedge - the wedge that never seems to hurt anyone but women, minorities, and the impoverished

[BannonsLiver]

7. Scumbags who got what they deserved.

[Cha]

31. I agree.. 4 kids are Gone now Bc of them & their kid that

they didn't pay enough Attention to him or the Warning signs.

And, maybe it will be a wake up call for other Gun owners and their kids.. maybe save some Lives.

[BannonsLiver]

37. Absolutely

And according to reports they showed zero remorse for their irresponsibility.

[Cha]

39. Yes Zero Remorse.. and I read a neighbor had

actually reported them to Child's Serivces when Ethan was around 8 years old and she talked to the parents too.. about leaving him alone.

Reportedly the parents would say.. "he's fine".

I read it in the NY Post when I googled so I don't want to link it here.

It's so tragic.

[yardwork]

46. Interesting!

They sure didn't stick around to help him after he was arrested.

[Cha]

50. Seems the abusive neglect

Had been going on for a long time.. and then his parents brought him a gun to cheer him up

Looks now like they wanted to distance themselves from Ethan’s tragic actions.. disavow themselves. Only made it worse as is their MO.

[Wonder Why]

59. Anyone can miss warning signs but no child should be given a gun unless it is locked up only to come out for

hunting, training, practice or other legitimate purpose.

[FelineOverlord]

8. They ran away when their kid was jailed

There was a nationwide manhunt for them. If they hadn't done that I wonder if they would have been jailed at all.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/03/us/michigan-oxford-high-school-shooting-superintendent-message/index.html

https://apnews.com/article/oxford-high-school-shooting-arrests-michigan-detroit-shootings-812df746393430fc4dd3fe1d9d7f0baf

They've shown no remorse.

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/james-and-jennifer-crumbley-shift-blame-apologize-on-behalf-of-son-during-sentencing

James Crumbley has also threatened the prosecutor.

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/james-crumbley-threats-call-sentencing-b2525693.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/james-crumbley-wasnt-threatening-karen-mcdonald-he-was-just-venting-attorney-says/

[yardwork]

47. I hadn't seen this post when I made mine. Thanks for laying it out.

This is a very unusual case. These people's behavior was egregious.

[riversedge]

51. Thanks for the posts. I was unsettled yesterday when I read

they would be jailed for long periods. I guess I still am.

[gibraltar72]

9. They bought him a god Damned gun

because he was depressed. Jesus It couldn't have been worse unless they told him to go shoot up a school.

[question everything]

14. And it will never happen again. The mother of the Sandy Hook killer did the same

and she was his first victim.

Perhaps we need teachers and principals at the beginning of the school year and throughout to send this message to parents.

[catbyte]

10. They were a special breed of irresponsible, negligent parents who are now blaming everybody

but themselves. I don't know how closely you followed this trial, but their actions, non-actions, and attitudes were appalling and they deserve every day of their sentences.

[Abolishinist]

44. They ignored so many warning signs, this from Wiki...

A former neighbor told the Detroit Free Press that, shortly after the family's subsequent move to Michigan, in 2014 and 2015, Jennifer and James often left their son home alone and without a phone as they frequented bars in downtown Lake Orion. The neighbor became so concerned that she filed an anonymous complaint via phone to the state's child protective services agency, but she did not know if any action was taken.

According to prosecutors, Ethan's only friend moved away at the end of October 2021, and the family dog died, plunging him into depression. As early as March 2021, he started sending his mother "disturbing texts about his state of mind," which included claims about "demons" and "ghosts" inside the home. He also reportedly videotaped himself torturing animals, made Molotov cocktails, and sketched himself committing a school shooting, something he also joked about with a friend via text message.

At one point, Crumbley allegedly kept a baby bird's head in a jar, which he later placed in a school bathroom. His parents allegedly never sought therapy for him following any of those incidents or behaviors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_High_School_shooting

[bucolic_frolic]

11. The school had the parents in their office before the crime.

Anyone in that conversation had enough evidence to effect a better outcome.

As parents they were deeply flawed. Their pain must be intense. Alleviate their pain toward what end? So they don't feel badly like the victims' parents?

I get where you're coming from though. Parents don't have perfect control over their kids, nor make perfect decisions. Are they any worse than parents of teenage drunk drivers? Are they any different? I doubt they'd get 15 years in the slammer.

[vanlassie]

20. Teenage drunk drivers?

Who gave them the alcohol? Who let them get the keys? Who bought them the car?
Of course parents might be found to have done everything in their power to prevent their kid from driving drunk. But THESE parents, not only purchased a deadly weapon for the kid, they failed to keep it locked up, they failed to heed warnings, and they attempted to flee responsibility. Lock them up.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

12. Children under the age of 18 are the Parent's responsibility.

Perhaps parents who are gun owners will think twice about gun safety, etc., when there are minor children in the house.

I have NO problem with gun owners. When they FAIL to exercise gun safety and responsibility like LOCKING up guns when not in use, I then have a PROBLEM with them.

Sentencing them to prison for their reckless disregard for the situation was proper.

[Coventina]

13. Mother sent text, "You have to learn not to get caught. LOL"

Fuck those guys.

[aocommunalpunch]

30. Came here for this comment.

They are fucking CRIMINALS and when their son reached out for help, this is their response. May they fucking rot.

[hlthe2b]

15. There was zero responsibility taken by either & zero remorse.

That is undoubtedly why they are receiving 10-15 years. What message would have been received and what message would have been sent-- under those circumstances-- had they not?

[zanana1]

16. I agree with you.

It's a slippery slope.

[bluesbassman]

17. There is a big difference here, you said:

"I remember after Columbine - before social media - that many went after the parents who had no idea what was in their sons’ bedroom."

That may be true about the Columbine shooter's parents, but it absolutely not true in this case. They not only knew, they bought the damn gun for him.

Their lives are ruined? They were ruined a long time ago and it's better for society if they get a nice long time-out.

[maxsolomon]

19. It's not federal prison. They'll be eligible for parole in 6 years, prob.

Meantime, their kid is going to spend his entire life in prison.

[Patton French]

21. I suppose potentially a slippery slope

But from what I read, these people did themselves no favors in the way they acted, both before and after.

[no_hypocrisy]

22. Not to lessen their culpability but

they were facilitators, not accessories to the crimes.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

27. Didn't they go into hiding after the shooting as well?

Sure seems like they knew they were in trouble.

[no_hypocrisy]

57. Admittedly, not a good look, but

Facilitation -- Facilitation, in a criminal law context, is the act of making it easier for someone else to commit a crime. This assistance is not just about taking part in the crime directly but providing resources, information, or tools that make the crime possible.

https://docmckee.com/cj/docs-criminal-justice-glossary/facilitation-definition/#:~:text=Facilitation%2C%20in%20a%20criminal%20law,that%20make%20the%20crime%20possible.

[ck4829]

23. I think we've reached a point where parents can no longer claim ignorance

If your child has issues that are far beyond normal teen issues, and if they’re searching for guns and ammo like how Ethan was; then maybe don’t look the other way.

[obamanut2012]

24. They aren't exactly Sue and Tom Klebold

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

25. If the parents are responsible for their kid's behavior, ...

... then the kid should not have been tried and sentenced as an adult. He got "life" without parole, the max in Michigan. That seems to me to indicate that he, and not his parents, bear the total responsibility.

[dpibel]

36. Interesting theory

So in your world, if multiple people participate in a crime, only one should be punished?

If three people rob a bank, so long as one is convicted of bank robbery, the other two should get off because the conviction of one indicates that he, not the other two, bear the total responsiblity?

[JT45242]

26. They bought an AR-15 for a troubled teen and did not lock it in a gun safe...

They showed reckless disregard for human life. Lots of human lives.

They were definitely guilty of multiple counts of criminally negligent homicide.

[Scrivener7]

28. No satisfaction, and yes sadness. But this needs to happen.

[Mike Nelson]

29. Probably not a popular view...

... I assumed, when I first heard about this case, the parents were somehow participants in the killings... prompted or asked the son to do it, drove a getaway car, or something like that... Apparently, they were very bad parents, but they did not participate in the murders. Now, prosecutors will be charging all kinds of bad parents, and other relatives. There are many bad, negligent... or just plain dumb parents... we better build a lot more prisons.

[Daylily]

56. They bought him the gun.

They ignored his attempts to tell them he needed help. (They had ignored him as a matter of course. They left him alone at night while out drinking at bars from the age of 8 that can be documented.) His mother saw the macabre drawings where he showed himself killing people. She went out and bought him, an underage kid, an Sig Sauer pistol (according to the news) which he then used to murder 4 people. I’d say that was an accessory. She texted him “not to get caught. lol”

[WarGamer]

32. Thinking of the precedent this sets... every teen shooter in the US now has parents who can be charged

Think of how many of them KNEW the kid had a gun... or was up to no good.

[dpibel]

40. Damn, dude!

You skipped the slippery slope and just landed right at the bottom of the abyss! Amibitious!

You seriously think that this case is about parents who "KNEW the kid had a gun...or was up to no good"?

You seriously think that prosecutors all over the country have just been waiting for an excuse--any excuse at all--to start charging parents of teen shooters?

I think you are hyperventilating.

Check out post #35. Maybe that poster really meant to respond to you.

[Stardust Mirror]

35. tell me you don't know the details w/o telling me you don't know the details

if you did you wouldn't oppose their sentences

[question everything]

38. I don't know the details and I apologize if this has caused you pain, personally

Many of the posts here also seem to want revenge and revenge is not a goal of our penal system.

The parents have already been punished and the message for parents all over is that they will be found liable for the actions of their children.

Not being sent to jail means they will be living together in the same house - unless they split - and will be rehashing the events all over again, wondering where they’ve gone wrong.

[Stardust Mirror]

41. didn't cause me pain

And revenge isn't my motive - it is to prevent these people from doing further harm to the rest of us.

As to our penal system, of course it is badly broken. But in this case, these people are a danger to society.

[MotownPgh]

42. Maybe not the same house since

dear old mom went to meet her boyfriend after the school meeting and while her son was shooting down school mates.

[catbyte]

52. It's not "revenge" it's justice. Such despicable parenting leading to such a tragedy should be

prosecuted. What is society supposed to do? Wring our hands and say, "Oh well, they're his parents and they can raise him as they see fit." What they did was child abuse/neglect, pure and simple, and I wish they had also been charged for that as well. Unless you don't think that people should be charged for negligent, harmful parenting.

And just why do you think that they've been "punished enough?" They don't think they did anything wrong! Maybe it's because my dad was a cop, but I've been raised to believe that actions -- and inactions -- have consequences.

[ecstatic]

53. I think I'm OK with making an example of them for the greater good

There are soooo many people serving long, unfair prison sentences, for victimless crimes. It's not right but since that's our system for the time being, I'm OK those parents having the book thrown at them too.

If it convinces just one reckless parent to put his or her guns away then mission accomplished. Thousands of lives might be saved.

[Torchlight]

54. To exactly what positive end?

What exatly would be the goal of sentence mitigation in this instance, and what common good would it accomplish?

[marble falls]

55. They armed a kid they knew had mental and anger issues. If they'd only checked that backpack in the principal's ...

... office, but they didn't and refused to take the kid home for a day. They were the adults, they were in charge, they are responsible for setting the crime up. They get punished. Too bad. The parents and families of those four kids are punished, too.

[Demsrule86]

58. He wasn't old enough to get gun...Mommy and Daddy bought it for him...also

on the day of the shooting...they came to school and saw evidence of this kid's mental illness...he begged for help. They made him stay in school...they deserve prison.

[Vinca]

61. I was happy with the verdicts and sentences. They knew their kid had problems and bought

him a gun anyway. They're probably safer in prison than they were at home with their own son. I hope this wakes up other parents who think it's a good idea to arm the kids.