This is concerning

[SocialDemocrat61]

I saw this excerpt on an X post. Please read and go to my comments below.
I am floored that someone who claims to be a liberal/progressive would be OK with a Trump victory. It's an incredibly flawed strategy.
First, when Democrats lose elections to republicans, they tend to go more right or moderate in the next election. Second, it in no way punishes Biden or Democrats. It punishes ordinary people who will have their rights taken away.
What really annoys me is the smug look she has on her face. And this is something I've seen a lot of on social media of late. Many, not all, of these people who declare Biden and democrats are just as evil as Trump and republicans are privileged white people who will suffer little or no consequences when republicans win elections.
I don't know how to fight this, but an open to ideas.

[OLDMDDEM]

1. She's naive.

[Arthur_Frain]

27. I was naive at her age too, shame on all of us who don't remember youth.

But I wasn’t naive enough to vote for Reagan or Bush. To misquote some Spinal Tap “it’s a fine line between stupid and naive”.

[OLDMDDEM]

30. I agree. I was naive at that age also.

[FoxNewsSucks]

62. I was.

And it's just one of the things I did back then which I'm now ashamed of.

In hindsight, nearly all of them, including voting R, were done out of ignorance. Lack of a good influential family, and growing up in a rural area. The influence of what was in the news got my first vote ever for St Raygun.

I travel similar rural areas for work now, and it's far worse due to the vast pervasive influence of rightwing media and no readily-available counterpoint on the air.

[betsuni]

184. I was extremely naive, sheltered, didn't know anything. The difference was that I knew it.

Knew I had to listen, study, learn, think for myself. Never thought I was smarter than anyone else, that kind of arrogance was completely alien to me. First vote was Carter's reelection and didn't know anyone who wasn't voting for Reagan but managed to think for myself because anyone with common sense could watch two minutes of Reagan and Carter on TV and know Reagan was a cartoon. Anyone who can't tell the difference between Biden and Trump is a fucking moron, don't care what fucking age they are.

[overleft]

35. Not just naive but stupidly naive.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

68. Smugly stupidly naive. . . . nt

[William Seger]

93. "Biden's lack of abortion protection?" Yep, she's pretty stupid

Does she think that Biden can just declare abortion legal? Does she think that Democrats can just pass bills when party-line Republicans vote against everything they try to do? That's pretty stupid. And no student loan forgiveness, so she's going to vote for the guy who promises NOT to do those things, or really, anything else to help anyone who isn't at least a millionaire? Very, very stupid.

[Ligyron]

106. "I'm going hold my breath until I turn BLUE!"

"If I die it will be YOUR fault, Wah!"

[LeftInTX]

46. I was naive, but never thought of "punishing a political party"

I wasn't too political when I was young and didn't have strong opinions. But it seemed like things were going OK. I was 19 in 1976 and I was like, "meh". I was focused on my math and sciences. I voted for Ford. He didn't seem like much of a threat. Figured he would be good for the space program etc. My parents were GOP.

However, in 1980 with that crazy Reagan, hell I went out and voted for Carter. Never thought we would see Barry Goldwater reincarnated!

[Beastly Boy]

75. There is a difference between benign idiots and malignant idiots.

Naive is benign. What she is saying is malignant.

[Rebl2]

80. I was somewhat

naive at that age, but not so naive that I would vote for a republican. President’s don’t control everything. They have to work with the Congress they are given-and know how to work with the Congress they have.

[Conjuay]

81. That's the polite way of saying she stupid

and she is.

[csziggy]

114. Unlike some here, I was not naive at that age

But then, I grew up in the 1960s and attended college in the 1970s. Having a sister who actively protested against the Vietnam War, having lived through the Cuban Missile Crisis (and the awareness that the world could be destroyed at any time), seeing threee of the greatest men of my time assassinated (JFK, RFK, and Martin Luther King), then seeing Richard Nixon get elected president twice through dirty tricks and illegal acts apparently wiped out any naivety I might have had at that age.

The first Presidential election I could vote in was 1972. This election feels to me a lot like that one - and I hope that it doesn't go the same way. The good thing is that people who pay attention know what TFG is.

The college student in the OP is not really naive - she is fucking ignorant!

How does she blame Biden for loss of abortion rights and student loans? He and the Democratic Party were not the ones who tilted the Supreme Court so far to the right. Biden has attempted over and over to get rid of student loans, but has been blocked by the Republicans in Congress. Anyone who has paid even a tiny bit of attention should know these facts. That this student doesn't means she's not getting her information from reliable sources or she is being willfully ignorant.

[electric_blue68]

122. Me either, in general. The "60's". 1968. In a big city like mine if you paid any attention...

you'd at least hear something was going - March, Rally, etc.

My dad had me putting flyers under our neighbors' apt doors when I was 12, or 13. Both of my folks were liberals in general. So I got an early start!

And Yes! The 3 Conservative Supremes was what I was coming here to mention.

Unbelievable!

And less well off white people will suffer some, too, as well drumphf's other "targets".

[Eliot Rosewater]

153. Or doesnt exist, russian propaganda probably.

[malaise]

2. A total and complete

inversion of reality- ah well

[marble falls]

3. Kirsten Mansel is an idiot who doesn't seem to recall all those protested by not voting for Hillary Clinton ...

... to punish her and the Democratic Party kicked our and their own collective asses. She has to called in out of the rain.

[OnlinePoker]

100. She would have been 15 at the time

She probably wasn't following politics that closely. I know I wasn't at that age.

[marble falls]

152. Other than she couldn't vote what changed in my argument? Asses who think like her DID give us TFG, right?

[Biophilic]

4. She's not a liberal she's an idiot.

I actually don't believe she is a liberal or if she is she doesn't pay any attention to what's been going on around her. I was pretty much an idiot in college, but I at least knew who was working for me and who wasn't. I actually took my role as a voter somewhat seriously. Kirsten obviously doesn't. Besides, her smile looks way too smug. What a little brat.

[Lochloosa]

7. Totally agree. She thinks shes the smartest person in the room.

Life is going to bite her in the ass.

[TexasBushwhacker]

36. Well, she considers herself a liberal

and attends University of Memphis (Tennessee). She may have a different set of "liberal" standards than someone attending UCLA or NYU.

[usaf-vet]

49. She better avoid getting pregnant untill she is ready to be a mom. She'll find out real quick just how dumb she is now.

[cbabe]

58. And have a perfect pregnancy with no complications that require medical intervention.

[usaf-vet]

60. Absolutely !!

[tanyev]

5. Lessons would indeed be learned.

Sadly, most of them by Ms. Mansel and others who feel the same.

[usonian]

6. Ask young people which of TWO alternative futures they want!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218845649

An inclusive society where everyone helps each other, where leaders speak to tyrants rather than for tyrants, or one of dogma, division and control.

Here is the future the GOP wants for you, and has sought for years to deliver.
You must choose wisely.

• Government dictates what you read, your religion and your private life. Government monitors and controls women.

• Americans pitted against each other along lines of race, color, religion, gender, sexuality, and income. Vilification of blacks, Jews, Muslims, lgbtq+ , homeless, and women of strength, with increasing violence, even murder against them.

• Gaza waterfront razed to make hotels. (per Jared Kushner)

• Devastating climate change.

• A deadly all-out war on the rights of women.

• More welfare for the rich.

• Private health care companies deny needed treatments to save money. (Death panels are here!)

• The wealthy pay even less in taxes.

• Every civil right is eroded by clown judges living in the 18th century rewriting the constitution.

• Worker's rights and benefits reduced in order to create greater profits for businesses.

• Safety nets removed, so that homeless, and jobless people are left to die on the streets.

• More, more, more of culture war.

• GUNS, everywhere, with no limitations or requirements. Kids get them freely.

• Minorities and women blamed for every imaginable blip.

• Support of authoritarian regimes across the globe, who eagerly imprison, "re-educate", murder and commit atrocities on others.

• Lies, hate speech and threats are welcomed on "social media" and given support by government officials.

• Medical care and prescription drug costs skyrocket. (and more ... )

This is not fear-mongering. It's reading from history and quoted statements.

"Staying at home" because Hillary Clinton wasn't "perfect" gave us a train wreck hate-mongering profiteer.
Learn from history.

We are now in a time when much of what's posted and published is generated by A.I. and bots.
Looters with computers know which ONE of your buttons to push that will get you to do their bidding.

It's like a date, people. No one is perfect, but the wrong choice will land you in the hospital or the bottom of a river.

• There are two alternatives.
• Ask which you want.
• You can't ride the fence, because it's covered with barbed wire.




They have been heavily propagandized.
It's not an ideological choice. It's freedom or fascism. Bernie is speaking to Joe on Palestinian concerns, and is partnering with him to advance liberal causes. TSF is talking to Putin.

[mountain grammy]

89. Excellent post

thanks for reposting.. missed the first, in the middle of nowhere watching the ecipse

[usonian]

92. Thank you. I repost it now and then for visibility.

I think it's the crucial issue.

BINARY CHOICE, FREEDOM OR FASCISM.
PEOPLE OR PUTIN.

SHARE WIDELY.

[Fiendish Thingy]

8. I'm not worried about Kirsten's vote

Kirsten lives in Tennessee, which Biden is unlikely to win.

Exit polls and ultra large sample size surveys consistently show young voters support Biden, Dems and progressive policies 2 to 1 over Trump and republicans.

[SocialDemocrat61]

11. The problem is there are many other people

like her all over the country.

[Fiendish Thingy]

18. And they are outnumbered 2 to 1 by young voters who support Biden. Nt

[SocialDemocrat61]

22. I hope you're right

[bluestarone]

37. I agree with you here.

[Silent3]

144. Outnumbered 2 to 1 isn't good enough

Idiocy like this can easily amount to 1-2% of the vote, and we’ve seen how often margins like that tip elections.

[FoxNewsSucks]

167. Phew!!!!!!! Thank God we can relax, since everything will be OK!

[Fiendish Thingy]

169. Worrying distracts from the important work ahead.

Especially worrying about something that is made up.

[FoxNewsSucks]

173. It's made up, it doesn't influence me, and probably doesn't influence

many regulars here.

But it is a tactic being used to influence the inattentive public. It shouldn't be mocked or ignored, it should be countered.

It's not just this one, either. Fox & Freaks this morning featured a "tiktokker" who made a video complaining that while he makes three times the federal minimum wage, he can't find affordable housing. They interviewed him from his car on break from his job.

This kind of thing DOES undermine us, and the media enables it.

[Farmer-Rick]

84. Are they though?????

Remember Putin and his communist dictator buddy in China are heavily involved on social media trying to influence the election.

It's not just trolls and X posting they go to to influence voters. They make up false and manipulated Facebook personalities and people buy into it.

Does the girl really exist? Is she being paid by foreign interest like when they paid off some BLM activitists?

This "punish the Dems" was a common refrain against voting for Hillary. "I want to teach the Dems a lesson for bailing out bankers while making middle class homeowners bear the brunt of the housing depression."

It was a stupid idea then and it's a stupid idea now. Especially now since it is clearly the Stinking Nazi lovers that are blocking the legislation she wants.

Biden keeps trying to help students and protect our rights but the infrastructure (mostly the stupid Supremes) set up by the Stinking Nazi has not allowed for it.

I feel like this post on Facebook is very manipulative and self contradictory.

[SocialDemocrat61]

120. We ignore this at our own risk

Too many people in 16 were complacent about things this and how did that turn out.

[struggle4progress]

156. I think it's. a quote from a USAToday article

Young voters aren't warming up to Biden. They know it means Trump could win again.
Trevor Hughes
USA TODAY

... Kristian Mansel, 23 said she's willing to see a Trump victory if it means Biden and Democratic Party learn a lesson. She's mad Biden and Democrats have failed to protect reproductive rights or wipe out student loans.

"It's just there's too many strikes against him and the Democratic Party at this point in general," said Mansel, a University of Memphis student who considers herself liberal ...

[FeelingBlue]

9. As my South African friend says,

She’s young and dumb.

[megapuzzler]

10. Either this is an "influencer" article

designed to convince other young women to be equally as stupid, or one could compare her to an abused spouse who is too afraid to accept help from neighbors and/or law enforcement but blames them instead of her abuser for her plight.

[SergeStorms]

70. It still amazes me...

that "influencer" is a job title now.

Whatever happened to thinking for yourself? People are so freaking lazy they're just going to sit back and wait for a freaking "influencer" make their decisions for them?

[usonian]

78. It's the fault of spellcheck. It's INFLUENZA, not influencer. n/t

[Bluethroughu]

12. If she was a liberal, she would be active in the Democratic party

Trying to win more seats in her State House.

She's an independent voter, that lives off the victories of the hard earned, and would sell out for pennies.

I'm wrong, she is a Republican't. See above.

[patphil]

13. She's pretty much a smug, self-centered publicity hound.

She wants attention, and controversy is the easiest way to get it.
Her comments seem to be disingenuous at best.

[LisaM]

79. Exactly.

You expressed what I am thinking, but far more kindly.

[patphil]

115. When I first came to DU, I was a lot edgier. I've calmed down in my old age.

Still, she is a bit of a shit.

[TBF]

118. I feel the same way - age seems to do that. But also watching a Trump presidency does that -

we barely recovered from the last one & got him out of DC after his insurrection and stolen election claims. If he gets back in there I doubt he'd allow another election. That should be enough to sober up anyone.

[riversedge]

14. Does this woman think the GOP will protect women's Reproductive health or reduce student

loans??
Geez!! what an idiot!

[GoodRaisin]

15. I wouldn't worry about her. Real liberals aren't this fucking stupid.

Ths is just an ordinary dumbass spewing ignorance. Nothing to see here.

[CrispyQ]

16. Young & new voters think they only need to vote once & change should happen within a few years.

I tend to agree with the above poster that this might be an influencer type article, but then again, never underestimate the stupidity of people.

[brooklynite]

17. A reminder that Susan Sarandon thought electing Trump would bring about a socialist resurgence...

[getagrip_already]

19. Is she even a real person?

Seriously, how many times in 2016 did we see fb personalities who turned out to be bots. Not real at all.

Or maybe there is a real person somewhere, who never said that.

Do we really even know?

The fakes keep getting better, and better placed.

[sarisataka]

23. And how did 2016 turn out?

[carpetbagger]

99. She's real.

A quick internet search pulls up some basic household and high school information.

[Silent3]

147. Even though this particular person might not be real (unlikely from what another poster said)...

…there is absolutely no reason to doubt this type of thinking is a real phenomenon, and more terribly common than we’d like to think.

[Fiendish Thingy]

20. Why didn't you include a link to the original article? Nt

[SocialDemocrat61]

24. Because I only saw this screen grab

on an X post. There was no link to the original article.

[Voltaire2]

64. then consider it utter horseshit

Disinformation campaigns can and do attempt to discourage voters using propaganda like this.

[SocialDemocrat61]

72. It's just meant to be an example

of things I’ve seen elsewhere. This is a real problem that won’t be addressed by denial.

[Fiendish Thingy]

119. So it may be deliberate misinformation

The person in the photo may not be who the text says she is, or hold the views the text says she holds, no way to verify.

Why bother posting obvious click bait alarmism?

[SocialDemocrat61]

121. That's not the point

Whether this specific person exists or not is irrelevant. The issue is that there are many people across this country with a similar attitude which we can either address or ignore.

[Fiendish Thingy]

129. The point is there is no evidence to support your point

Especially not in the screen shot you posted.

[SocialDemocrat61]

130. Then you're free to ignore the problem

But to do so is a risk.

[Fiendish Thingy]

136. I don't see young voters supporting Dems 2 to 1 over the GOP as a problem

The problem is the lack of a shared reality based on verifiable facts.

[SocialDemocrat61]

137. Ok

Like too many in 16, your free to pretend that there is nothing to worry about.

[Fiendish Thingy]

139. Who said there is *nothing* to worry about?

I’m just not worried about the majority of GenZ voters shifting their support from Biden to Trump.

Getting more Gen Z voters to the polls in November- now that’s a challenge worth spending some time on.

[SocialDemocrat61]

140. In any election it's best to not be complacent about anything

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/07/voter-age-biden-trump-2024-election-00150923

[Fiendish Thingy]

143. So many pixels wasted saying a whole lot of nothing

From your link:

Or something’s wrong in the polls — and the mirage of an “age inversion” is really a warning sign of a structural problem in the 2024 election polling.

That would be a signal that the polls are once again struggling to measure the presidential race accurately after underestimating Trump in the previous two presidential elections. Maybe the young-voter numbers are wrong, and the polls are understating Biden; or maybe the older-voter numbers are wrong, and Trump is even stronger than he appears; or both.

“Seems like we know how to poll white, middle-aged people really well,” said John Della Volpe, the director of polling for the Harvard Kennedy School Institute of Politics and an expert on polling young voters. “But if they’re younger, older, Black, Hispanic — there seems to be no consensus about what’s the best practice these days.”

Is there a fundamental realignment underway of the American electorate? A systemic error in polling? A little bit of both?

All of the polls claiming a seismic shift in the presidential preferences of young voters are making that claim based on a very small subgroup of 200-300 voters aged 18-29. Samples that small have a huge margin of error when generalized nationally, of around +/- 8-10% (the subgroup MOE is so high that pollsters often decline to disclose that actual number, instead just noting the MOE is “higher” than for the full sample), which renders the results meaningless. This is compounded by the fact that recent polls regularly oversample republicans.

On the other hand, Pew research did a poll last year of 18,000 people, including about 1800 young voters, and the results (with a MOE of +/- 3.9% for the subgroup) showed young voters support Biden, Dems, and progressive policies by a 2 to 1 margin, something like 63% to 31%.

So, feel free to wring your hands over claims made by deeply flawed polls.

I’m not going to waste my time.

[SocialDemocrat61]

160. You can do whatever you like

Just hope you don’t regret the consequences of doing nothing.

[Fiendish Thingy]

161. Who said anything about doing nothing?

I follow Simon Rosenberg’s philosophy:

“Do more, worry less”.

[SocialDemocrat61]

162. Good

We can’t afford to get complacent and ignore any group of voters.

[intheflow]

117. Another reason to not post the link is to deny her clicks.

If this is on her influencer page, every click pays her for being ignorant.

[Hotler]

21. Once a dictator takes power only bloodshed will remove them. nt

[Freethinker65]

25. Seeking media attention, hoping threats from others like her will spur immediate change in current US policy, or

or completely ignorant.

[oasis]

145. 1 and 3

[Takket]

26. Is she a real person?

Russian propaganda is pretty well known for coming up with fake people like this to influence voters. Especially ok X where Musk has made sure they have free rein.

Is there a link to an actual article?

[sarisataka]

28. Link to original article-

Young voters aren't warming up to Biden. They know it means Trump could win again.

Took literally 2 seconds to locate.

[honest.abe]

32. The actual original article is from the "Commercial Appeal" behind a paywall.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/11/young-tennessee-voters-biden-trump/72988187007/

[shrike3]

59. The original article was about Tennessee voters. Yahoo picked it up and it went from there.

Tennessee is hardly a swing state.

[muriel_volestrangler]

157. Not too impressive that after a day, they still have a generic "xxx" picture caption

"xxx gave their thoughts on xxx on Thursday, March 14, 2024 at the University of Memphis in Memphis, Tenn. "

[onecaliberal]

29. Level 5 stupidity.

As usual the stupid has no clue how government works. VOTERS are the ones who failed to elect Hillary and THAT is why roe was overturned BY recons as promised.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

31. Whoopie

There are hundreds of millions of intelligent Americans to offset her stupidity.

[honest.abe]

33. Reminds me of 2016. We can't just ignore this or call her stupid.

Last edited Fri Apr 12, 2024, 12:05 PM - Edit history (1)

We need to educate these voters or we might see Trump 2.0.

[sarisataka]

42. It is deja vu

the same dismissals of any negative reports are being recycled. We have learned nothing from our previous complacency.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

51. How?

Suggestions, tips, things you personally are doing to "educate"?

[Voltaire2]

73. 2016 when middle aged white men in midwest swing state broke for Trump?

Yes that is exactly like young voters in a deeply red state.

[shrike3]

34. Yeah, that story ran yesterday. They went around and talked to students on a campus in Tennessee.

And went from there.

[Kid Berwyn]

38. "Too many strikes against him."

That's on Rupert Murdoch and the rest of Corporate McPravda.

Dinformation. Misinformation. Psychological Operations. Etc. Etc. Etc.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

39. What rock did this woman.crawl out from?

Joe, Kamala, abd Democrats have been all over this issue.
Same about Student Loan forgiveness. Sheesh!

[piddyprints]

40. Well, it proves one thing:

Going to college doesn't necessarily make you smart.

Just wait until she sees even less abortion protection and not even an attempt at student loan forgiveness under republican control. Clearly she is not paying enough attention. What an idiot.

[elocs]

41. Teaching the Democratic Party a lesson. Isn't that what some BoBs tried in the '16 election?

According to an NPR report (https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds) 10-12% of the Bernie or Bust crowd after voting for Sanders in the Democratic primaries actually voted for Trump in the general election and along with those who voted for a 3rd party candidate such as Stein would have swung the election in the swing states to elect Trump.
So how did that work out for the nation, for progressive?

Our presidential elections are binary and in this election the next president will either be President Biden or Trump. That's it. So if a voter doesn't want Trump to be president, then that person needs to vote for Biden because not voting for Biden only helps Trump.
This is a very simple concept.

[nevergiveup]

43. Could we please have an interview with one

of the millions of young people who will be voting for Biden? This is becoming insane.

[usaf-vet]

44. Kirsten if I were you I would avoid any activity that might lead to a unwanted pregnancy. You think Biden is a problem..

.... you want to see problems. Wait until you get pregnant if the GOP is in the White House. Now you will really get a taste of trouble.

If Trump is president, you will not believe how difficult it will be for you to get healthcare that considers your right to self-determination of what to do with your own body.

Are you ready to be a mom in your early twenties?
You better hope so because if Trump is in the White House.
If you get pregnant, it is likely to be a done deal because you will stay pregnant until you deliver. .

[JI7]

45. How is she a college student ?

These are basic things that even a high school drop out should understand.

Maybe she is just dishonest and doesn't want to admit she is actually right wing.

[DJ Synikus Makisimus]

47. Take this seriously.

I have only anecdotal evidence from my local independent coffee shop instead of a statistically significant sample, but I think this sentiment is likely more widespread than you want to admit. Most of the younger folks I'm around are either college students or they are young professionals with a degree, so if statistics and trends reported are to be believed, they should be among your core of support. However, they have longer memories than most. Do you remember "Go Big or Go Home?" They do. To refresh your memory, the entire "progressive" agenda failed to pass In Biden's first term, when Democrats controlled the legislative process. So the agenda they voted Biden into office for got tanked by Democrats, not through some GOP maneuvering. Even something as simple (i.e, should have been a no-brainer) as a child tax credit got sabotaged by Manchin, if you remember - and now Schumer is asking him to run again. The Dobbs decision might have been stopped with preemptive legislation, but nothing was introduced. That wasn't the first time that Dems have had control of both houses and POTUS, and have failed to pass legislation to protect abortion rights. The concern seems to be that Democrats just want to run on abortion for the next several election cycles, not fix the problem. They've also heard "it's the most important election of your life" too many times (like even before they were old enough to vote) and are starting to think it's "crying wolf."

It's not like the situation is lost, and it's a bit early for the specifics of how Dems are going to go about fixing the abortion mess (for example), that'll happen around the time of the convention. But those specific details about the "how" will be REALLY important. Linkage between re-electing Biden and giving the Dems a majority in both houses of Congress will also be crucial - and the Biden campaign has started that which is good. The follow-through has to be there, too, once the election is over and Dems have control. The legislation MUST pass. I gather that if Dems leave folks hanging one more time, that'll be it for awhile. AND BTW, it's not that most of them will vote for the GOP, as with the example in the post. They won't bother to vote at all.

[LeftInTX]

57. Democrats have never controlled the legislative process. It would require a super-majority in the senate

The senate can veto any bill that they don't like and they do.

That's why nothing gets done.

The veto prevents bad legislation from passing when there is a Republican majority in the senate.

The senate talked of removing the veto for voting related legislation, but they were never able to get it done. Needed 3/5 vote.
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1171/vote_117_1_00420.htm
Required For Majority: 3/5Vote Result: Cloture on the Motion to Proceed Rejected
Measure Number: S. 2747

[DJ Synikus Makisimus]

102. I'll bring up legislative procedure in the next conversations ...

thought somehow I doubt it'll fly. They're more sophisticated than the folks who blame Biden for the economy, but procedural rules may be a bit beyond their perception. We'll see.

[LeftInTX]

123. Also, I don't believe vetos apply to budget bills. However, voting and reproductive rights are not part of budget bills

[LearnedHand]

48. Young democrats/liberals are neither stupid nor idiotic

And they also fall under DU’s TOS prohibition against attacking other Dems. I’m sort of sick of seeing the otherwise compassionate people on this board laying into the young people we should be reaching out to.

While you can disagree with her stance, try to imagine how things must seem to her. She has almost no chance of having a middle class life like her parents may have, the planet is burning while she’s trying to formulate plans for a career, and she’s seeing the war on women firsthand in the hideous state of TN. i get it that she feels unprotected by the Democratic Party, even if it’s not the whole picture. I don’t want her to sit out her vote, but I understand why she feels that way.

[SocialDemocrat61]

55. Who said she was a democrat?

Her party affiliation was not stated.

[Think. Again.]

87. Thank you.

[muriel_volestrangler]

131. She's 23, and studying medicine. She has a great chance of being middle class or rich

if she wants to. From the USA Today version:

Kristian Mansel, 23 said she's willing to see a Trump victory if it means Biden and Democratic Party learn a lesson. She's mad Biden and Democrats have failed to protect reproductive rights or wipe out student loans.

"It's just there's too many strikes against him and the Democratic Party at this point in general," said Mansel, a University of Memphis student who considers herself liberal.

and from The Commercial Appeal version (links above for both):

The lack of abortion protection is Kirsten Mansel's sticking point for not voting. Mansel, a 23-year-old studying medicine at the University of Memphis, said that over the years, Democrats have had chances to codify abortion rights and they have not done so and now in vitro fertilization (IVF) is on the line, too.

I really would have hoped someone who's done well enough in their studies to get onto a medicine course could reason better. I can see that abortion and student loans are important to her, but she's rejecting the president and party who are by far the best chance of doing what she wants. It is cutting off her nose to spite her face.

[SYFROYH]

50. We must reach folks like this with compassion.

It’s hard. You can see the name calling and contempt even in this thread.

I think it’s likely that her heart is in a good place. If we push her away she’ll surely not vote for Biden. We have to talk to her and people like her with compassion to bring them back into the fold.

I think we made this mistake in 2016 when left leaning and lefties expressed discontent with the candidate and party. We told them to eff off and we didn’t need them. As it turned out we did.

[sarisataka]

54. We are blindly walking a path

That leads to something not seen since 1892 by repeating mistakes of 2016.

[SocialDemocrat61]

56. Might work for some

But others are too invested in sitting on their high horse to feel morally superior to everyone else to feed their egos.

[SYFROYH]

95. It's true. We don't ever get all the votes.

[Prairie_Seagull]

52. I am guessing here but, probably not an 'A' student.

Use the crosswalks.

[muriel_volestrangler]

135. She's studying medicine, which normally requires good grades

Whether she's actually "liberal" would be subjective.

[meadowlander]

150. Ben Carson was a successful neuro-surgeon.

Brains/good grades don't always translate into political savvy.

[ananda]

53. Geezus, how do Republicans not get blamed for all that? AND...

What are she and her peers actually doing to defeat Republicans
and uphold women's and all human rights?

Hmmm????

[Kingofalldems]

61. Bad things about Democrats.

[betsuni]

148. Classic "Why don't/didn't Democrats stop (bad thing)?"

[Kingofalldems]

154. And it is still up.

Now that IS concerning.

[betsuni]

186. I meant the students quoted in the article.

[IbogaProject]

63. Fake, this is manufactured propaganda

The GOP is full of Nazi decendents, they all came in the 1950s, this is some closet racist if not an actual actor.

[ancianita]

112. I'm suspecting that, too. Any liberal her age knows how courts & government work. This piece is

meant to provoke handwringing and FUD within this party. At worst, this is typical of what foreign messaging thinks election propaganda is supposed to do -- sow distrust of one of the Democratic Party's strongest voting demographics. At best, if she actually exists, one exception does not an age demographic make.

[Happy Hoosier]

65. I hope she looks good in red...

.... Handmaid status coming right up...

[jaxexpat]

66. Set up, to rouse emotions.

[Baitball Blogger]

67. Where was she during the Trump years?

Building Bears at the Build-a-Bear store?

[rubbersole]

69. There are 20 previously "republican leaning" women ....

..pissed off at Dobbs for every one of these types of ladies. Fake or not.

[Mz Pip]

71. Weaponized ignorane

She might want to educate herself on how our government works. Biden has no control over state legislatures or over court rulings handed down by people he didn’t appoint.

[NNadir]

74. In any sample of humanity, there will be idiots.

It doesn't mean they represent any more than a very small minority. Pointing to them however can encourage other idiots to join them.

[Ace Rothstein]

76. These people often come from very privileged backgrounds.

They don't want to put in the work to achieve their political goals as well.

[Bev54]

77. Are you sure she is real, this is the kind of thing the Russians put out, pretending

to be regular Americans.

[Think. Again.]

82. Yeah, apparently this is the latest rightwing talking point.

[ColinC]

85. It really does seem like she's a right wing troll posing as liberal

[Think. Again.]

90. The rightwing is pushing this trope in an attempt...

...to pit young voters and Democrats against each other.

As you can see from some of the replies in this thread, it's working.

[ColinC]

113. Worst case scenario is there will be a statistically significant number of them who don't vote

Like every election

[ColinC]

125. Also I'm in complete agreement with those who say people who legitimately think like this shouldn't be ignored

[ColinC]

83. "Failed to protect reproductive rights and wipe out student loans?!"

She trolling us? Or just highly misinformed on the legal situation of those two issues?

He has literally done everything he possibly can to forgive student loans and protect the right to choose. The only reason we are in this position is because trump was ever elected in the first place.

[TeamProg]

86. First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller

[electric_blue68]

124. Besides knowing this quote I think I had it as a button in the late '60s.

[TeamProg]

126. It makes for a great quote but Pastor Martin Niemller being there in real time leads me to think that he was

a spineless weasel. Nothing personal against actual weasels.

[BlueTsunami2018]

88. I wonder if someone didn't just take a picture of a kid off the internet and add text.

This is incredibly stupid “reasoning”.

Too stupid to be believed but then again, we are living in very stupid times.

[Think. Again.]

91. Yep, get the youth vote and the Democrats mad at each other.

...and it's working.

[marti]

94. smirk tells it

I suspect it as disinformation- she's up to something

[zanana1]

96. I hope she'll think the loss of democracy is worth it.

[Delphinus]

97. She doesn't

seem to know how government works (or should work).

[pandr32]

98. Is she counting strikes against the other candidates?

Surely the number against TSF is in the several digit range by now and he stands to gain the power if she does not support President Biden with the couple of strokes against him she has counted.
Does she know Math?

[Renew Deal]

101. 9/11 happened because of people like Kristen Mansel

Alito happened because of people like Kristen Mansel
The Katrina response happened because of people like Kristen Mansel
The Covid response happened because of people like Kristen Mansel
The Dobbs decision happened because of people like Kristen Mansel

[oasis]

103. An ignoramus should be ignored.

I wouldn't waste my time wooing dumbasses.

[hadEnuf]

104. People like her think it's a just big game. The "it can't really happen here" attitude.

There will be no "lesson to be learned" by Democrats. Democrats will lose and she will lose when people like her create a vote for Trump. Apparently, the only way some people will get the gravity of the situation is when they wind up losing everything. But somehow, they think that won't happen.

There is no logic in her strategy considering what she claims to believe in. Frankly, she comes across more like a smug & entitled little shit, rather than a bright person with an actual plan.

[maxrandb]

105. It's classic Roger Stone rat-f*&#ing

She's about a "liberal" as the "I'm a lifelong Dem" caller to the Rush Limbaugh Show.

[KS Toronado]

107. When I first seen this yesterday

I wondered if this was the Russian's disinformation campaign at work. And since it's gone viral, if it's real,
people who know her are knocking on her door to educate her. Think I'll do a little goggling on her.

[twodogsbarking]

108. She was picked because she is an outlier, or outliar.

[Think. Again.]

132. Yep, it's all part of an underlying narrative to conquer and divide the left.

Youth are notoriously more liberal and left-thinking, if the rightwing can set a wedge between the youth vote and Democrats, they weaken our base.

What really concerns me is that so many non-youth Democrats are so happy to just jump right on that bandwagon.

[twodogsbarking]

133. Your DU name says it.

[onetexan]

109. Shallow & ignorant comment.

[oldmanlynn]

110. Wouldn't be surprised if she was paid for that

By the Republican Party or some member.

Its to stupid otherwise. Republicans will do all kinds of crap to throw up smoke and mirrors

[Fla Dem]

111. Wish I had the proof that she is a RW stooge

acting on behalf of the Republican party in her state and is a member of the college Republican student coalition.

BTW the school newspaper "The Commercial Appeal" Is a owned by the Gannett Company .

Who owns the Memphis commercial appeal?
It is owned by the Gannett Company; its former owner, the E. W. Scripps Company, also owned the former afternoon paper, the Memphis Press-Scimitar, which it folded in 1983.

The Commercial Appeal -
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › The_Commercial_App...

[markbark]

116. Wow....

WOW. I was dumb when I was 20 (Hell, I was dumb enough to join the Army back then 😉 ) but still... can someone be this spiteful and unaware?
....and doesn't she realize that it's the SCOTUS and Republicans in Congress that are mostly to blame for the current lack of reproductive rights, not Biden?

[BlueKota]

127. Probably shouldn't say this

because my Italian grandmother used to say spit up in the air and it comes back in your face. Still I am going to say it. If the worst happens, and Trump wins, I hope anyone naive, mean, or just plain stupid enough not to vote for Biden, and or votes for Djt, will have the worst of what he will be doing to this country, happen triple to them. They will deserve it as they were forewarned of the horrible things he himself has vowed to do.

[Sogo]

128. Dollars to donuts this is a fake.

Created in Russia....

[kimbutgar]

134. I agree I also thought it was a fake meme made by an repuke source or a russian troll.

I know there are a lot of stupid people but this is so out there !

Opps I take it back I just saw a video of a woman saying she thinks the orange maggot is God and she will die if he’s not re elected. The woman looked real !

[returnee]

138. The media is highlighting the youth protest vote.

I wonder what the real numbers are. But in any event this seems to give credence to the idea that this a reasonable way to think about this election. Not helpful at all, media

[Cha]

141. She's Dangerously Unobservant. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

142. How the hell

Did this idiot get to the age of 23 in America without understanding that there are three branches of government?

I hope she enjoys her theocracy.

[KS Toronado]

146. Just spent 2 hours searching the internet for her

Found absolutely nothing on her, few takeaways
1) Kirsten seems to be a boys name

2) University of Tenn. has a tiger as mascot, but looking at all the tiger monuments on campus, the one in the
picture doesn't match any of them, neither does the building that I could find.

3) One of the picture search engines I used identified it using the Russian alphabet, that was interesting.

4) Even searched for her adding an extra L because it was a more common spelling.

5) 2 hours and nothing added up, so I believe this is Russian disinformation.

[KS Toronado]

149. Just saved and blew the picture up 700X

The flowers on the T shirt seem to be added, any savvy photo people here to check it also?
I'm no photo expert by a long shot.

[muriel_volestrangler]

155. "Kirsten seems to be a boys name" - there's confusion over her name

The screenshot in the OP does say "Kristian", not "Kirsten". Putting "Kristian" into Google quickly turns up a Wikipedia article on the name "Kristian", which does note one woman using it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristian_Grant .

But if you search for her quote, or look at the links provided in posts #28 and #32, you do find her proper name is indeed "Kirsten", and that is of course usually a female name. And there are plenty of Google hits for "Kirsten Mansel", apart from this story.

The tiger statue (paw on books) can be seen here: https://alumni.memphis.edu/s/1728/c20/interior.aspx?gid=2&pgid=543

It seems unlikely that USA Today will be faking T shirts to support an article.

[KS Toronado]

163. I couldn't find the tiger statue with your link

Remember which heading it was under? I know I said google but I was using duck duck go, which might
explain some of the stuff I couldn't find.

[muriel_volestrangler]

165. it's about halfway down the page, at "Tigers Around Town"

[KS Toronado]

178. One in that picture has the names of books as it's stripes, why I missed it the 1st time.

Probably in front of a library. In the tab 100 tigers around town there's 3 more pictures (1914) of this one.
The one in the picture with Kirsten is painted like a calico, probably the same one because of the books.
Plenty of the pictures appear to have that building in the background, so it was taken in Memphis.

[RandySF]

151. I bet her family's rich.

[betsuni]

164. I'm going with middle class.

[beaglelover]

158. She's a short sighted idiot.

[betsuni]

166. The talking points of interviewed students in the article (ha, I typed stupidents first):

Moral struggle over voting
Teach them a lesson
"Older generations" ruined everything, had the easy-street American Dream, control everything, don't want change (so we're not going to vote to change things)
Biden is too old
Prices too high, economy better under Trump, he's a businessman
One only slightly better than the other, both bad, lesser of two evils is still evil
Nobody listens to us (so we're not going to vote)

They couldn't find one actual Democrat or real liberal!

[betsuni]

180. I forgot to say that VP Harris and most diverse admin. ever are invisible. As if Biden's all alone in the WH

and his identity as a older white man MUST mean he's the same as older white man Trump/Republicans and anybody who works for Biden turns into an older white male conservative who doesn't want to get anything done. Magic trick!

Worked in 2016 by making everything, every single thing, about one person: Hillary. Now everything's about Biden.

And if the protest voters got just the right young president that president still couldn't have done the things they wanted done. It's as if most of the talking points about broken promises and betrayal and being disappointed, not doing enough, failing, needing punishment were all ready to go in 2020 no matter who the Democratic nominee was.

[QuickPop]

168. She's angry.

I hope she sees the light by November.

[mdmc]

171. welcome to du

[Cha]

174. She's Dangerously Unobservant and needs to Wake UP and Smell Reality.

[BootinUp]

170. To be frank, I don't believe her reasons/story. nt

[Grown2Hate]

172. Forgive me, because I didn't read every response before

responding myself, but I feel obligated to point out this is ONE person's thoughts being amplified.

I've seen AT LEAST 3 posts about this one person stating this. We're amplifying ONE person's naivete. I don't know that that's productive, is all.

Show me a poll where a SIGNIFICANT number of young people feeling this way and maybe it indicates the need to strategize against it. But I just don't think that's the case. I could be wrong...

[SocialDemocrat61]

175. Then feel free to ignore

People ignored similar issues in 16. How did that work out?

[Grown2Hate]

176. That's not what I'm saying or advocating.

The campaign is smarter than I and they just need to define exactly how to attack, where to hammer, and how to get the message out most effectively.

When ONE article comes out about ONE person and gets THIS much attention, I don't know that that's a productive avenue? Not even saying it ISN'T (or at least worth exploring), but I don't see it.

[SocialDemocrat61]

182. If you don't see, then you're free to ignore

No one is forcing you to care or do anything.

[Martin Eden]

177. So her strategy is to give power to those who are determined to destroy reproductive rights

Last edited Sat Apr 13, 2024, 06:15 AM - Edit history (1)

And who oppose the cancelation of student debt?

THAT takes a special kind of stupid.

[JohnSJ]

179. Interesting observation that the one's expressing concern and telling "us" to take it seriously seem

to have relatively low post count.

Most likely it is a false flag story, but even assuming it isn’t, if someone is that stupid, there is no point wasting time trying to convince an idiot like that. Focus on people who are persuadable.

[SocialDemocrat61]

183. Low post count? False flag?

Please if you are accusing me of something, say it directly.

[LudwigPastorius]

181. "She's mad Biden and the Democrats have failed to protect reproductive rights or wipe out student loans."

Kristian is what is known as ignorant.

[gulliver]

185. No link, no sourcing. Propaganda

Posts like this should be allowed, but only as examples of likely propaganda.

[SocialDemocrat61]

187. Here's a link

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/09/biden-young-voters-poll/73258711007/

[gulliver]

188. Lol!

"Thanks" That's "helpful."